The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 96 12:32:52 EST
Subject: Re: Cruise and abs on disco fixed, sort of

     Hal,
     
     have you tried disconnecting the battery for about 30 secs. This is 
     what I have to do to reset the ECU on my RR to turn off the EFI light.
     
     Regards
     Mike

------------------------------

Subject: Digest's now available as 
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 12:43:45 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

write to majordomo@land-rover.team.net

index	cso-digest

Of course they started on the 29th, so it is mostly list-spam at the 
moment, but it looks like folks are getting tired of list-spam.

( should 'a seen the lro digest today, over 100 messages, mostly spam ! )

If they don't stop soon, they'll _deserve_ to be made into a news group...
	:-)

    Cheers,
        --bill  	caloccia@OpenMarket.com
                 http://www.OpenMarket.com/personal/caloccia/
				  N
				  D
   R  1  3  2wd  H             L  3     
   +--|--|   o   |             |  2
      2  4  4wd  L             H  1
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"       '90 RR County
      793-PTA 

PS:	Daryl Webb and a punter from Main were closest to the mark as to 
	trying to figure out where I'm at...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 09:56:38 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Feeling outcast 

Bill -- I was sorry to hear about TeriAnn (and anyone else for that
matter) unsubscribing from the LRO list. I for one am putting all this
nonsense behind me from now on and hope she and others will too. Your
efforts in maintaining the lists are appreciated by all, and your last
statement below says it all on how they should be used. 

Cheers

John Brabyn

On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, William Caloccia wrote:

> Not put a damper on your party, but it seems as though one Teriann W@eworld
> has unsubscribed from the LRO list.  So be cautious of what you ask for,
> 'cause sometimes it comes true.
...
> My proclaimation of the use of the lists is really quite insignificant
> except in your petty bickering little minds.  If people  want to gather
> together under the rro list to talk about coil sprungs they will, and
> if they don't care, then they'll talk about whatever they want in whatever
> list.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:17:21 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: central locking system

I have an '88 RR, and my tailgate lock is not integrated into the central 
locking system.  I understand that changed in '89.  What's the setup like?  
I imagine the tailgate lock is different, but is it still in the handle of 
the tailgate hatch?  I'm wondering if there's any way to retrofit mine.

-Matt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:34:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Range Rover Speedometers

Mike -- I had the same pronlem with my speedo making those loud clicking 
noises on the way back from a four wheeling trip. Like yours, mine 
suddenly cured itself just as I was about to take the sledge hammer to 
it. I don't know what the cause is, but the noise definitely came from 
within the instrument binnacle.

I'd be interested in anyone else 's experience or any possible solution too.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR (with old style speedometer).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 10:55:31 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: central locking system

Matt -- the elecreic tailgate lock looks very similar to the manual one 
so I should imagine a retrofit to be quite feasible. It is integrated 
into the handle as you hypothesize.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, Matt Snyder wrote:

> I have an '88 RR, and my tailgate lock is not integrated into the central 
> locking system.  I understand that changed in '89.  What's the setup like?  
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> the tailgate hatch?  I'm wondering if there's any way to retrofit mine.
> -Matt

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 18:52:54 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Hi 

Hello all superior vehicles owners. 

I have had it with those twits on the LRO digest. 

And Introduction.

I have 2 RR's.

An 88, My off-roader, fitted with polybushes, bilstiens GPS and soon to be CB. 
Looking into a winch mount up front. 

I also have a 91 (wife's) County model. Kept for good occasions. 

I also have a 109 that I'm restoring. But we won't harp on that at this time. 

Looking forward to some good civilised banter 

Mark 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:35:24 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: D90 Sun visor

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996 PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:
> (snip) ..I guess I'll have to look closer at my 94, but I don't remember 
this being a > problem .....

Not a problem on my '94 D90 either. BUT the rear view mirror mount on the 
'94s is kind of low to begin with (almost 1/2 way down the windscreen; 
and the mirror does block out forward/side vision to the right I've 
always thought.)
So maybe the mirror mount was raised on the '95 models (to improve 
forward vision), which results in sun visor hitting mirror..

Maybe someone can do a side-by-side comparison...

David

------------------------------

Date:  1 Mar 96 14:36 EST
From: lito@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lito Lucena)
Subject: re: Digest's now available as

hi bill,

just what is the cso-digest supposed to contain??

lito
lito@oasys.dt.navy.mil

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:44:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Range Rover Speedometers

    For what it's worth, my mechanic says his favorite speedo repair shop
    has been unable to fix them.  I don't know why.

Mike -- I had the same pronlem with my speedo making those loud clicking 
noises on the way back from a four wheeling trip. Like yours, mine 
suddenly cured itself just as I was about to take the sledge hammer to 
it. I don't know what the cause is, but the noise definitely came from 
within the instrument binnacle.

I'd be interested in anyone else 's experience or any possible solution too.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR (with old style speedometer).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 14:52:16 EST
From: dmccor03@counsel.com (David McCormack -- Hinshaw ^ Culbertson - Brookfield )
Subject: Portable winches

 To:	rro@land-rover.team.net		Inet 	

More on winches:

	I called Superwinch, (860) 928-7787, talked to John, ext. 341 -
very helpful:

1.  They recommend no more than 6,000 pounds on a receiver winch
because they have not tested it with more and are afraid that a
pull from the side could bend the frame.  You could go with a
bigger winch  - they just don't recommend it.
2.  To the winch of your choice add part 2000 - winch cradle,
which provides a mounting plate and handles.
3.  Get part no. 2001 which is an adapter so that the winch cradle
fits a single class III trailer hitch (which in the case of the
Discovery would fit the front and back receiver).
4.  Get parts 2005 and 2006 which are the wiring kits for wiring
both the front and rear of the vehicle.   Supposedly, these come
with sockets so that you can connect and disconnect the winch
easily.
5.  If you want to go with a 9,000 pound winch they sell one
already in the cradle and with at least some of the wiring you
need.
6.  Part B 1559 Class II Receiver Hitch Mount is too weak for even
a 6,000 pound winch.

	I called Rovers North (802)879-0032

1.  They sell a Warn 8,000 in a cradle etc. for $895.00  (so much
for worrying about bending the frame).
2.    They sell a Class III front receiver fitting both the
Discovery and the Rang Rover Classic  for $195.00

	My current thinking is to go with the Rovers North receiver and
then see if  I can beat $895.00 using Superwinch products.

Best personal regards,

Dave McCormack
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:57:32 -0500
Subject: Re: central locking system

>I have an '88 RR, and my tailgate lock is not integrated into the central 
>locking system.  I understand that changed in '89.  What's the setup like?  
>I imagine the tailgate lock is different, but is it still in the handle of 
>the tailgate hatch?  I'm wondering if there's any way to retrofit mine.

In the past year I have become a bit of a Range Rover power lock expert.  I
have replaced three of my acuator units (BTW they are all stamped made in
Germany not Lucas) and modified the mount on a fourth so it would work all
the time.

The power lock acuator on the tailgate is exactly the same as the ones in
back and passenger side doors. (the drivers door acuator is different because
it controls all the locks, and I am guessing the front passenger door acuator
changes when it started to control the locks on newer RR's)

The power locks on the '87 and '88 also control the lock on the fuel door, so
it should be easy to run a wire to the back window.  You will need to black
out part of the back window like the my '89's to hide the acuator or you
could add the third brake light like the newer models.

The easiest way to do this would be to buy all the parts you need from a
junkyard.  I was reading the Feb. issue of Hemmings Motor News and after
looking at the three D110's (they were all over $43K !) I noticed an ad for
AAA Small Car World in Fort Worth, TX Phone # 817-831-0946.  The ad said that
they have 25 Range Rovers, these guys are a huge professionally run junk yard
and they have been advertising in the BMW club magazine for years.

If anyone calls AAA Small Car World for parts I am curious what they would
sell a full set of County burlwood for?  I would never post a question about
wood to the old LRO list, and I am not really looking for any but in the past
month or so I have been talking to a few people and they were asking about
converting to a County and now I am curious what it would cost.  I know at
the dealer the wood costs almost as much as a restorable Series LR

Kevin Kelly
'89 Range Rover

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:58:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Range Rover Speedometers

>I had the same problem with my speedo making those loud clicking 
>noises on the way back from a four wheeling trip. Like yours, mine 
>suddenly cured itself just as I was about to take the sledge hammer to 
>it. I don't know what the cause is, but the noise definitely came from 
>within the instrument binnacle.

When my speedo was making noise I took the entire instrument "pod" out of the
car and was planning to pull the entire speedo cable out of the housing and
grease it (this has worked for me on other cars in the past).  I discovered
that the noise was coming from the "90 degree elbow thing" that bolts to the
back of the speedo.  I cleaned the gunk out of it with Q-tips and oiled it
with sewing machine oil.  It has been quit since the end of summer. 

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 11:58:35 -0800
Subject: Raz-ma-Taz -- Re: Hi

Lynch Mark -- he's got, ya know, one of them - a series junker.

And I say we get rid of the D90/110s off this list because they are
too much like the corrosion buckets. I can even plagerize a little
note to send to 'em: I know just the message I want to use: a
little cut and paste and voila...

Sorry, I just had to have some fun here too. I promise to behave
myself like a civilized chap. I'll stay cool, cuz I have AC. My
kidneys still work. Ah, it's good to be free from the stifling
grandparents, ain't it????

:) :) :) :) (I'm just kidding.)

On Mar 1,  6:52pm, Mark Talbot wrote:
> Subject: Hi
> Hello all superior vehicles owners.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> I have 2 RR's.
> An 88, My off-roader, fitted with polybushes, bilstiens GPS and
soon to be CB.
> Looking into a winch mount up front.
> I also have a 91 (wife's) County model. Kept for good occasions.
> I also have a 109 that I'm restoring. But we won't harp on that

at this time.
> Looking forward to some good civilised banter
> Mark
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Mark
>-- End of excerpt from Mark Talbot

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Apologies and Bridging Ladders 

1. APOLOGIES First, I forswear any further communication on list
definitions, usage, splitting and turf, and apologize for my own probably
overdone rhetoric on the subject. I return to more substantive issues: 

2. BRIDGING LADDERS
Does anyone know a good source for suitable off-road bridging ladders, 
preferably aluminium, that can be used to cross otherwise uncrossable 
dents in the terrain and can be carried on a roof rack without adding too 
much top weight? I saw some advertized in LRO from Scotland but wasn't 
sure whether they are steel or aluminium or how heavy they are.

Cheers

John Brabyn
Mill Valley, Ca
89RR

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 14:15:45 GMT -0600
Subject: A question about posting

Wow, magic, I made it.
Now my question. In the subscription welcome it says not to crosspost 
messages between RRO and LRO. I was wondering how to handle messages 
that apply to both? For example welding would apply to both, and even 
turbo chargers (which I've addressed before) might.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Portable winches
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 12:26:14 -0800

That's a very interesting report. Having not seen the front receiver
mount for the RR or Disco, I'd wonder how suceptible it would be to an
off-axis pull. I know (from personal experience) it's very easy to have
a hi-power (e.g. 9K# capacity) winch to do more harm then good if used
incorrectly or inappropriately (but we won't talk about that right
now....) 

Likewise, hefting the winch from one end of the car to another is
something that will have to judged by the individual (I know I was sore
for several days after I installed a bumper mount winch, but I'm not
very husky (145# soaking wet). 

Lastly, assuming you aren't mired to the frame rails in quicksand or a
dinosaur eating tar-pit, it really doesn't take much winch power to pull
you out or move the vehicle far enough to pull itself out (i.e. 6K
should be plenty) assuming you have a good battery and cables (VERY
important!). This is especially true if you can move the winch to the
best end of the vehicle and not lose 20' of cable running it under the
truck to tie it off somewhere on the "other" side. If you do need the
extra capacity, then you can "double-line" with a pully, in which case
good tow hooks on both ends are important as are having a pulley, chains
and straps, of course. Your driving ambitions will be big factor in
determining this aspect.

Did you happen to get a price from Superwinch on the various components
you listed or do they only sell through distributors?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 14:33:01 -0600
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Doing Business with Euro-Parts

I can now give a report on Euro-Parts. I ordered a drain plug,  
trailer wiring harness and spare serpentine belt for my Disco about a  
month ago. These things arrived yesterday, all genuine parts. Though  
it took a while for my order to come, this was in part because they  
sent the stuff with an error in the address and it came back. They  
asked for no money or credit card up front and only now by e-mail  
have given me a bill. They thoughtfully included a second belt for  
4.0 96 Disco because they were not sure of the difference between  
them. I am sending the extra belt back. The owner called me at his  
expense to verify address for the order &c. 

	The prices are good, 6.00 a filter as opposed to 8.00 at RN,  
24.80 on belt and 3.69 for plug, 5.00 at RN. The wiring harness was  
to be 41.00 instead of the 50 RN charges but this did not work out so  
they took off the difference from another order I am placing on  
filters. So from what I can tell on the basis of this one experience,  
they are a good place for parts cheaper than AB and RN, if you don't  
mind waiting a while. I hope this allays some of the anxieties voiced  
about them earlier on the list.  John Friedman 

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: D90 Sun Visors
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 13:33:48 MST

David Rosenbaum writes:

> On Fri, 1 Mar 1996 PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:
> > (snip) ..I guess I'll have to look closer at my 94, but I don't remember 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> forward vision), which results in sun visor hitting mirror..
> Maybe someone can do a side-by-side comparison...

Took a look at my '94 (#1930) last night after this "controversy" began
- here's what I found:  The drivers side visor clears the mirror just
fine (must be why I never noticed any problems) but the passenger side
does bump the mirror slightly.  My visors have cut-outs, so the design
intention was that they clear the mirror.  Must depend on how the mirror
is adjusted, but there is obviously not much room for slop.

Wish those things would rotate to the side, though.  Hey!  That's how
I'll make my first $million!  Whoops, I've said too much already.  Never
mind...

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 16:09:56 -0500
From: Sanjay Prasad <Prasad@ba-iplaw.com>
Subject:  Range Rover Speedometers

Speaking of speedometers: I sometimes get the feeling that the
speedometer on my '90 RR reads higher at highway speeds or
sometimes doesn't respond quickly enough to changes in speed.  At
times on the highway I see that I am going 80-85 mph and am surprised
because it certainly doesn't seem that fast.  My feeling is that I may have
gotten going that fast and then slowed down but the speedometer is
slow to reflect the slower speed.  I have always been impressed at how
nice the RR's ride is, but is it really that good, or has anyone else noticed
this?

Sanjay Prasad
'90 RR
Boston, Massachusetts

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 01 Mar 1996 16:14:56 -0500
From: Sanjay Prasad <Prasad@ba-iplaw.com>
Subject:  RR Fuel Door Lock

Kevin Kelly's posting about the RR central locking system reminded me
that a few months ago I accidentally knocked broke the extension on the
fuel door which locks the door closed.  I have been thinking about using
some sort of glue to glue it back on, but does anyone have any better
suggestions?

Sanjay Prasad
'90 RR
Boston, Massachusetts

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:23:45 GMT -0600
Subject: receiver mount winches

Saw the posting a few minutes ago. I missed the thread beginning but 
thought I'd pipe in in hope it applies.

I've used my front mounted Warn 8274 to winch myself (or rather my 
Lightweight) backwards on several occasions. That without any 
modifications. I don't know what the underside of a Disco/RR/D90-110 looks 
like, but I imagine it would work for them also. To make it go 
easier, if I expected to have to do it much, I'd add a roller to the 
bottom of my bumper.

For times when you're mired deep you can use what I used for snaking 
chokers under logs when I was a logger. A piece of 3/8-1/2" round 
stock about 4-5' long with a hook formed on one end and a handle on 
the other. You stick it under the vehicle from the side so it pokes 
out the front, hook the cable to it, pull it back to the rear wheel 
and repeat the process from the rear of the car. 

Now, I haven't tried it from a horribly mired situation, but next 
time I'm off-roading (who knows when I'll get to do that?) I'll give 
it a try.

Seems cheaper & easier than the dual receiver setup.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: receiver mount winches
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 96 15:01:52 MST

Tom Rowe says

: I've used my front mounted Warn 8274 to winch myself (or rather my 
: Lightweight) backwards on several occasions. That without any 
: modifications. I don't know what the underside of a Disco/RR/D90-110 looks 
: like, but I imagine it would work for them also. To make it go 
: easier, if I expected to have to do it much, I'd add a roller to the 
: bottom of my bumper.

I've seen pictures in Four Wheeler magazine of vehicles with the winch
mounted UNDERNEATH the vehicle, about in the middle between the frame
rails.  You can put a fairlead at each end of the vehicle and just run
the cable to the end that needs it.  Seems like it would be a pain to
have to move the cable when the rig is up to its belly in mud or water,
and you'd think the winch would be exposed to a lot of nasty stuff down
there (maybe you could box it in), but it still looks like a clever
idea.

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 17:13:08 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: receiver mount winches

Jeffrey J. Gauvin writes:

> I've seen pictures in Four Wheeler magazine of vehicles with the winch
 mounted UNDERNEATH the vehicle, about in the middle between the frame
 rails.  You can put a fairlead at each end of the vehicle and just run
 the cable to the end that needs it.  Seems like it would be a pain to
 have to move the cable when the rig is up to its belly in mud or water,
 and you'd think the winch would be exposed to a lot of nasty stuff down
 there (maybe you could box it in), but it still looks like a clever
 idea.>

Hickey made a winch called the Sidewinder, now out of production I 
think, that mounted under the vehicle up between the frame rails. It 
only fit a few vehicles I think. It had the cable permanently fed up to 
a fairlead in the front. It was designed to get some of the weight 
off the front suspesion and I suppose give a better approach angle 
for some vehicles.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:04:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: greetings

Hi, im an escapee from the lunatic land rover owner list I hope to see
real good stories here as well as useful info about RANGE ROVERS!

------------------------------

Date: 01 Mar 96 18:13:33 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Off Roading in VT-BSROA weekend at RN

---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
From: Chris Browne at US014-BOSTON-MINET
Date: 2/21/96 2:22PM
Receipt Requested
Subject: Off Roading in VT-BSROA weekend at RN
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

============== Begin part 2 ==========================

     Over President's day weekend BSROA held an off road course at 
     Rovers North. We all (15 people) had an absolute blast).
     
     I can't say enough about just how great the RN people are to be with, 
     how patient they were with novices to semi experienced off roaders. 
     How willing to allow you to try and overcome a problem, giving a few 
     pointers here and there. One unexpected extra member of the team for 
     the weekend was Sue Mead, veteran photographer on the 95 Camel Trophy 
     who is going back for a second round in Borneo later this year. She 
     had this unnerving ability to stand in front of your car taking 
     pictures until you were about to hit her when she jumped out of the 
     way.
     
     RN put on a great show a 4.5litre dakar engined 90, a 90tdi, a 3.9 
     disco and their old warhorses two 3.5 Rangies, veterans of the Mt 
     Washington trip. 
     
     It all started on Saturday morning after 4 hours sleep (thanks to the 
     snow storm in Mass on Friday afternoon) with introductions to the 
     vehicles, low points, safety etc. Then out to their training area to 
     familiarize ourselves with vehicles and the conditions (several inches 
     of new snow). Even in this area there were several difficult places (eg 
     the 40degree side slope) that conspired to cause more than its share of 
     problems. It is also extremely interesting to watch a failed hillclimb 
     on a serious hill then see the car come down, seemingly out of control, 
     but very much under control coming to a halt just feet from a frozen 
     body of water.
     
        After Lunch we tried an obstacle course, aka an off road slalom. 
     Some very tight and difficult corners with just one rule, no backing 
     up. We (in a RR) failed to make it around the course having been 
     defeated by an ice covered hill. the V8 90 failed too so i didn't feel 
     too bad!
     
        During all of this BSROA members traded places with each other so 
     everyone got to try their hands at each obstacle. I've only done a 
     small amount of off roading, but my eyes were opened wide by what I 
     learnt. Trying to make all the  "issues " come together at the same 
     time throttle, gear, momentum, ground conditions, trees, braking, 
     vehicle size and so on is tough but with practice doable 
     
        Happy to confess that I failed to make one hill in a rr (that Air 
     AL a 4.6 owner made in another rangie) and on the third attempt, 
     successfully parked the rangie 4 inches from a tree. At that point we 
     got our first winching demonstration. Firstly by pulling the rangie 
     away from the tree using another Rangie, a tree and snatch block. That 
     demonstration came in useful on Sunday when one driver had the 
     misfortune to slide a disco into a tree ever so gently while making a 
     90 deg turn on a serious side angle. barely marked the rubber around 
     the right rear window.
     
     Unfortunately the discos rear door suffered more damage than that when 
     it opened with sufficient force to bend the bottom hinge. The hinge is 
     bolted on to the door jamb, riveted onto the door. A hammer and more 
     rivets soon had the hinge straightened.
     
     Learnt a ton of stuff by the end of the day. Returned to the Hotel for 
     dinner and several bottle of wines washed down with more beer and 
     great stories.
     
     Sunday (got 5 hours sleep this time) saw a little more of the same. 
     followed by the most amazing adventure of all. Anyone who knows Stowe 
     VT knows that Smugglers Notch is closed during Winter. RN received 
     special permission for us to drive the Notch. Having driven it during 
     the Summer Months, I know that it is not the easiest of roads. Before 
     we set off we decided on dinner time, and headed off. 5 hours later, 
     having spent most of that time winching (sometimes off crash barriers 
     that we had to dig down through several feet of snow to find), driving 
     and pushing vehicles we got to within 1/2 a mile of the top before 
     time ran out. No way did anyone consider this a failed attempt. 
     Everyone got into it, despite the freezing temperatures (probably 
     15deg F/-9deg C) by the time we called it a day. 
     
        We rounded out the weekend with another great dinner, sponsored by 
     Land Rover Metro West who also gave participants a couple of very nice 
     gifts. Big thanks to Mark Letourney, Lanny, Michael Hussey (half of 
     the winning US Camel team great guy I was lucky enough to have him as 
     an instructor in the car I was in), Mike Hopwood (an uncanny ability 
     to size up a situation and identify the perfect solution), Jim 
     Mitchell (I fell in love with the ARB bumper/guard on his disco) all 
     from RN, Jim and Cathy Pappas of BSROA for all the hard work that went 
     into organizing the event and making it work so well.  
     
     I'll be back!
     Chris browne
     95 Disco "Baron"   
     

============== End part 2 ============================

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:25:47 -0500

as posted by Mark Ritter back in Feb.  Hope it helps...
************
Date: 12 Feb 96 16:11:51 EST
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Cheap winch for Disco

I have just completed the installation of a winch on my 94 disco, the total
cost
of which was $525 (340 pounds). I used a slightly used superwinch X-9000 and
fabbed the mounting plate from 8 inch structural steel channel. The winch
sits
between the frame rails and the fairlead exits just below the front bumper.
No
modifications to the frame or bumper were required and the crush cans are
still
intact so the airbags should not be affected. The only modiification was to
the
bottom horizontal bar of the factory bull bar. It was relocated slightly
lower
to give the fairlead room. If anyone is interested in the installation call
or
E-mail me and I will fax you some pictures.. The gentleman who helped me with
the engineering and fabrication is considering making them for sale, and
though
the complete cost would be more than what I paid (used winch and sweat
equity)
it will certainly be much less than any other winch currenly offered for the
Disco.

						Mark Ritter
						Well equipped 94 Disco

***********************
(Hope you don't mind me re-posting it Mark....)
GerryElam
Phoenix AZ

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:29:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Cruise and abs on disco fixed, sort of

In a message dated 96-03-01 12:50:17 EST, HalatGRM@aol.com writes:

>So everything works, except the abs light is staring at me.  Unless, of
>course, someone out there knows how to reset it...
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>(910) 226-7997
>Tools, sofa, beer

Can teh ABS light be reset like the yellow check engine light?  To do this
you disconnect (DISCOnnect?) the battery for a few minutes.  Have that radio
code handy....  
John., D90

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:29:09 -0500
Subject: D90 Rain Windows

I have been thinking ALOT the last couple of months about spring...not
surprising I guess, I just gave up my perennial summer and moved to
winterwonderland.  Anyway, it rains a lot more here in Wisconsin,  than in
So. Cal, and I am thinking ahead to having the doortops out and what'll I do
when the inevitable happens: the sudden midwestern rain.  (I just absolutely
LOVE driving this truck without the doortops, other than a motorcycle, it is
IT.)

I can't leave the doortops in the truck, they'd get stolen.  So here' s my
idea:  plastic floppy windows.

I have a friend who owns an upholstery shop, and am gonna have him sew me up
some clear plastic floppy windows.  My D90 has 3 snaps on the door, so no
problem attaching there.  I can install a few snaps on the A pillar, towards
the front, along side the windshield.  And the top is gonna be the hardest,
could use snap-straps around the top safari bar over head.  I think that is
gonna be the problem area, to seal the top of these plastic windows so water
straight down doesn't come right in.  Though the top seal  may not be solved,
just the cost of going topless.  But, heck, I are un penguineer, I auta be
able to figure out sumthin.

Anyone see something like this advertised?

I'll be able to leave these windows under the seat, and pull em out in a rain
emergency.  I think it is a great idea as long as I can figure attaching the
top part.  I think the windows will flap around a bit, but big deal.  

I will want these windows to to work with both the surrey top and the normal
top, as I forsee going "semi" naked and just removing all the back plastic
windows, but leaving the full top  on so I can button it up more quickly and
easier.  I don't know about y'all, but I have tried to get that  top back  on
in 60 deg F weather in LA, and it was a bear!  Even though I left it out in
teh sun, it really took some stretching and work.  So while I would certainly
have the windows out at 60F, I might want to leave the skeleton of the top
on. 

Any other D90 owners want to place an order?  

John, RainWindow Inc., or Windows for Sissies.
(Hey, I don't want to dilute my latte with acid rain!) 

I must admit, that I also am thinking of some cheap rain outfit from Eddie
bauer or camping store, that I could use too, and some  waterproof seat/cubby
covers.  

Barnett...you ever actually get caught in a good rain?  You said you go
topless most of the season?

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:29:14 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Sun visor

In a message dated 96-03-01 14:55:10 EST, rosenbau@u.washington.edu (David
Rosenbaum) writes:

>Maybe someone can do a side-by-side comparison...
>David

Speaking of side-by-side...I remember the first time I reached for my visor
after buying the Def, I was gonna swing the visor over to the left to block
the sun...Ooops, CDI! (Can't Do It.)  And here I thought that 30K was gonna
do my old '75 Bronco one  better by giving me side visor capability.
(bronco's didn't swing to side either.)
JOhn.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:29:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Portable winches

In a message dated 96-03-01 15:42:36 EST, a-robw@MICROSOFT.com (Robert Watson
(CNA)) writes:

 I know (from personal experience) it's very easy to have
>a hi-power (e.g. 9K# capacity) winch to do more harm then good if used
>incorrectly or inappropriately (but we won't talk about that right
>now....) 

Well now hold on there pardner...  You don't have to be afraid here.  This is
the RRO list.  WE are all friends here, we wouldn't make fun of you after you
laid out your soul and explained about this learning experience.  (read that:
 I DON'T WANT TO DO WHATEVER YOU DIDTO YOUR TRUCK  TO MY DEFENDER...PLEASE
TELL ME SO I CAN LEARN!)  

And I'm thinkin' your point about  winch capacity is worth investigation.
 What is really wrong with a 6000lb winch, I assume we can still mount it to
a Class III receiver.  And depending on price, and if I came across a deal on
a used 6Klb winch, why shouldn't I buy it ?  Is the price difference worth
it?  I just know from other things I've learned about that sometimes the
adverttised "thing to have" is n't always necessary.  Like the 7/16" rods on
the big block Chevy engine.  I ran my 3/8" engine to 6900 rpm and it never
broke, but you read in the magazines that in order to do that, you GOTTA have
the big rods.  Same with the winch?  I dunno, I am too new to this stuff, I
just am basing it on previous experience in different areas.  

That's why I like the lists, both of 'em.

JOHN, winchless in wisconsin.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:29:21 -0500
Subject: Re: A question about posting

In a message dated 96-03-01 15:42:47 EST, trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU (Tom Rowe)
writes:

>Wow, magic, I made it.
>Now my question. In the subscription welcome it says not to crosspost 
>messages between RRO and LRO. I was wondering how to handle messages 
>that apply to both? For example welding would apply to both, and even 
>turbo chargers (which I've addressed before) might.

You know the answer Tom.  Crosspost.  the sub. welcome is just trying to
scare you.
Don't be intimidated...I already did it with that vacuum adv. post, and I
haven't received any funny messgaes yet.

John.
'course, noone is answering my private email either, but...

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:29:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest's now available as

In a message dated 96-03-01 15:01:26 EST, lito@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Lito
Lucena) writes:

>just what is the cso-digest supposed to contain??

it should contain the digest from teh RRO list, i.e. the RRO in digest form,
sent out once per day instead of "real-time." .  CSO stands for Coil Sprung
Owners.  He jsut didn't rename the list CSO because the RRO list was already
functional.
John.

Below is the info you need (if you don't already have...)

===========================================================================
Welcome to the rro mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
you can send mail to "Majordomo@playground.Sun.COM" with the following
command
in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe rro <email@address>

Here's the general information for the list you've
subscribed to, in case you don't already have it:

The Range Rover Owner mailing list
The CSO-Digest (Coil-Sprung-Owner) mailing list
----------------------------------

The RRO mailing list is a list for Range Rover Owners
and other Coil Spring Land Rover Owners...

It makes sense, tecnically, to have a place for all coil spring L-R owners
to discuss their vehicles which share most significant mechanical components.

As the RRO list was pre-existing, it shall not be renamed, however,
as there are a number of vehicles which fall into the coil-sprung L-R
category (90"s, 110"s, 127"s, Defender, Discovery, and Range Rover),
the digest has been created with a more ``politically correct'' name of
CSO Digest.

All mail sent to subscribers of the RRO list will be distributed, once
per day, to listed subscribers of the CSO-Digest.

Please note:

(1)  DO NOT CROSS POST to the LRO LIST AND RRO list
	send your message to either the world-wide LRO list
	( lro@land-rover.team.net )
	OR ( rro@land-rover.team.net ), but NOT BOTH

(2)  Subscribing to the RRO list or CSO Digest

	Send e-mail to:		Majordomo@land-rover.team.net
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(4)  Sending messages:

	Send the message to:	rro@land-rover.team.net

For administrative stuff (Digest subscirptions, etc), contact
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

for example:
	index cso-digest
	unsubscribe rro
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	info rro

If you want to know more about what majordomo can do for you, send
the text 'help'. (text is in the message not the Subject line)

To find out more about the other lists, write Majordomo@land-rover.team.net
requesting:

	lists

or web to 		http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/lr/

If you think majordomo is misbehaving, feel free to send mail to 
majordomo-owner@land-rover.team.net (which is me), or directly to 
me at the address below.

	Cheers,
	  Bill 		caloccia@openmarket.com
			http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:09:31 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Portable winches

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996 PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:

> And I'm thinkin' your point about  winch capacity is worth investigation.
>  What is really wrong with a 6000lb winch, I assume we can still mount it to
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> just am basing it on previous experience in different areas.  
> That's why I like the lists, both of 'em.
> JOHN, winchless in wisconsin.

In my naive opinion, I bet the full capacity of 10,000 lb winches would 
seldom be used anyway, since when you lose traction and get stuck it is 
probably going to be when things have gotten marginal and you just need a 
bit of extra push or pull to get going again.

That's unless you plan to use it to haul the vehicle up vertical cliff 
faces or purposely drive into deep mud bogs etc.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR with 8,000 lb winch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 96 00:07:44 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Hella's 

Anyone know what is the largest size Hella aux lamp can be fitted to the RR 
standard bumper without cutting ? 

Mark

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Portable winches
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:18:51 -0800

>Well now hold on there pardner...  You don't have to be afraid here. 
>This is
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>DEFENDER...PLEASE
>TELL ME SO I CAN LEARN!)  
Alright, if you REALLY want to know.... First of all I've only winched
with my Jeep Wrangler (back in my pre-Disco days). During some Off-axis
pulls (about 30-degrees) I unknowingly (because I wasn't looking) wedged
the front tires against a rock and during the course of winching,
knocked the axle off to the side about 1/2 -3/4". (LESSON: watch what
you're doing, before and while you are doing it)  Not a big deal, just
an afternoon under the front axle straightening it back out.  What was
scary was doing all that damage didn't phase the winch a bit.
>And I'm thinkin' your point about  winch capacity is worth
>investigation.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>deal on
>a used 6Klb winch, why shouldn't I buy it ?  

I suppose this would be grist for the Winch FAQ, but:
Big winches (e.g. 8K+) Advantages:
	more efficient (pounds pull /amp from battery)
	faster pulling speed for a given weight
	generally have longer cables & bigger spools
	pulling capacity (obviously)
Disadvantages:
	bigger & heavier (may require HD suspension)
	more expensive
	require correspondingly sturdy frame, mounting & accessory hardware
(e.g. straps, pullies, chains, etc.)
 	
Small Winches (< 8K) Advantages
	Smaller & lighter
	lower amp requirement
	easier to maneuver (portable winches)
Disadvatages
	slower cable speed for a specific weight
	shorter cables & smaller spools
	not as efficient
	
>Is the price difference worth it?  I just know from other things I've
>learned 
>about that sometimes the adverttised "thing to have" is n't always 
>necessary.  
Depends on what you plan to do with it: If you plan on getting up to the
window sills in mud, then a big fat heavy winch would be in order.
The "rule of thumb" is anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 x the max vehicle weight
(e.g. Disco @ 6,000 lbs x 1.5 = 9K winch). Camel Trophy Discos have a
10K winch, I believe. That requires some electrical system upgrades
(e.g. alternator, battery(s) and cables) as well as some suspension
upgrades to tote all that weight around. However, that's a good size for
the SERIOUS off-roader. If you don't plan on winching your Rover over
hills on a regular basis, you could probably do with less.  I'm looking
for a winch to help get my Disco back on track and not use it as the
primary means of locomotion, so for me the 5-6K portable will be
sufficient. 

One other thing to consider is that in "real-life" the actual pulling
force applied to the cable under the best of conditions is usually only
60-80% of the "advertised" rating. This is mainly due to the electrical
system and installation. On top of that, as someone else posted, you
lose about 15-20% per cable layer as well. So for example:

	6K	 winch
	*.8	installation factor
	4.8K	(on the first layer of cable)
or 	2.5K	(on the 4th layer	of cable @ 20%/layer)

Of course, If I see a good deal, then all this "science" goes out the
window! Happy shopping!
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |  _|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 96 00:13:51 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Winch mount

Please fax me info. I want to put a Warn on my RR, but use a discreet mount. I 
had a bullbar but without the spoiler it looks unfinished, so off came the bb. 

Anyone else used a discreet mount for a Warn ?? 

My fax # is 603-357-2005

Thanks 

Mark

----------
From:  GElam30092@aol.com
Sent:  Friday, March 01, 1996 6:26 PM
70472.1130@compuserve.com

as posted by Mark Ritter back in Feb.  Hope it helps...
************
Date: 12 Feb 96 16:11:51 EST
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com>
Subject: Cheap winch for Disco

I have just completed the installation of a winch on my 94 disco, the total
cost
of which was $525 (340 pounds). I used a slightly used superwinch X-9000 and
fabbed the mounting plate from 8 inch structural steel channel. The winch
sits
between the frame rails and the fairlead exits just below the front bumper.
No
modifications to the frame or bumper were required and the crush cans are
still
intact so the airbags should not be affected. The only modiification was to
the
bottom horizontal bar of the factory bull bar. It was relocated slightly
lower
to give the fairlead room. If anyone is interested in the installation call
or
E-mail me and I will fax you some pictures.. The gentleman who helped me with
the engineering and fabrication is considering making them for sale, and
though
the complete cost would be more than what I paid (used winch and sweat
equity)
it will certainly be much less than any other winch currenly offered for the
Disco.

						Mark Ritter
						Well equipped 94 Disco

***********************
(Hope you don't mind me re-posting it Mark....)
GerryElam
Phoenix AZ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 18:01:32 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: D90 Rain Windows

Dear John:
I am still running with doortops and full soft top, but your post is 
another sign that Spring is coming! I'll probably change into my LR's 
summer gear soon - which is Surrey top and Tonneau cover. If I'm driving 
by myself in the rain, I put the tonneau cover over the passenger seat 
and snap it all the way to the inside of the front windscreen. 
When driving in the rain, I do get wet - but at speed, rain blows in from 
behind so I am not sure how much plastic side windows would help.They 
will certainly "flap" some, though!!

You mention removing the rear plastic windows from your soft top - was 
your top modified? My '94 windows are sewn in, but the '95s zip out.

I'll save your message and look at my D90 - I *might* be interested in 
some snap-on front plastics if you seriously think of getting some made...

Best wishes,
David

(no need to wash out the interior - Spring is coming)

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 21:07:25 -0500
Subject: Re: Apologies and Bridging Ladders 

>2. BRIDGING LADDERS
>Does anyone know a good source for suitable off-road bridging ladders, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>much top weight? I saw some advertised in LRO from Scotland but wasn't 
>sure whether they are steel or aluminum or how heavy they are.

Back when I lived in San Diego and went on Surf trips in to Mexico with my
Toyota 4x4 I kept two big 4"x 6" pieces of lumber in the back.  I had a bunch
of 1/2"x 1" strips of wood that I screwed to the lumber with my Makita drill
(screws about 1" apart) for traction.  These will work to bridge gaps or get
you out of mud or sand.  I don't have them any more, (they didn't make the
move up north along with a lot of other junk in the garage). I am thinking
about making a new set of them for the Range Rover and mounting them on my
rack next to the Hi-Lift.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 22:15:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Hella's 

>Anyone know what is the largest size Hella aux lamp can be fitted to the RR 
>standard bumper without cutting ? 

Before anyone runs out and buys new aux lamps for a Range Rover you might
want to first try improving what you have.  I have Hella H-4 European
headlights that replaced the main headlights.  I strongly recommend these
lights and I have had Hella European lights on every car I have owned in the
past 12 years.  I have the 55/60 Watt bulbs in my main headlights, but if I
wanted more light 55/100W and 80/100W bulbs are available.  I also replaced
the 55W H-3 bulbs in my driving lights with 100W bulbs.  The 7" Euro
headlights are about $75 a pair with bulbs and the 100W driving light are a
great low cost upgrade at about $5.50 each.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:01:50 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Range Rover Speedometers

In your message dated Friday 1, March 1996 you wrote :
>      It began to behave erratically, with the needle 
>      fluctuating between 0 and 70 m.p.h. accompanied by lots of clicking 
>      noises and the odometer stopped turning. 

Yes, mine did the same when it tried to turn itself from 99999 to 100000. The 
odometer just stopped, the speedo needle waved erratically about the speed you 
were supposedly doing. Remove lower dash under steering column. Remove 4 nuts & 
washers holding instrument pack from below. Unclip binnacle cowl from instrument 
pack. Disconnect speedo cable from right angle drive, remove 2 PCB edge 
connectors. At this point you should be able to lift the instrument pack from 
the car.

Detach binnacle mounting bracket (4 screws). Dissasemble clear pastic front (yet 
more screws * wire srping clips). Remove right angle speedo drive unit from rear 
of unit. Carefully prise speedo needle shroud  open, exposing fibre-optic 
element. At this point, you can withdraw the whole speedo unit from binnacle.

Find clean work bench, and dissassemble the odomemter digits & clockwork 
mechanism, check, and re-assemble in the order you dissassemble it (Most 
dificult part). You should then find it works, providing nothing was broken. It 
sometimes just gets jammed.

Good Luck, let the list know how you get on!

Gerald
-- 
-------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk    |
| My own opinions, not those of my employer!    |
-------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: ccoryell@osiris.ac.hmc.edu
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 00:33:11 -0500
Subject: Potential Rover Owner Looking for help

I am a college student contemplating the purchase of my first vehicle.   I
am looking for a SUV type thing for general transportation and mountain
trips, but I am on a budget and I am looking for something with
distinctivness and a little class.  I have found for sale in southern
califorina what seems to be a 1984 range rover with 55k on the odometer,
for a very affordable price.  I have been impressed by the features a
foible about rovers that I have read about here and on the web, but I don't
know much specific information about this vehicle or how an old rover is
likely to satisfy my needs.
        I would really appreciate any and all information and advice that
people care to give me.

some specific questions:  what is a reasonable sort of price for this vehicle?
     how do these things hold up/ how much regular maintainance is required?
      and how much does said maintaince cost?
     how can I be assured that the guy is selling me a good car?
     which engine/other components of interest does vehicle probably have?
     which type of 4 wheel drive does it have?
     should I throw caution to the wind and just buy it because it is
cooler than any ford explorer could ever hope to be?
     do people take range rovers on mountain roads, are they really
capable, or is it just advertising? (the guy seemed shocked I might take it
off road)
     how do they do at high altitudes (>7000 ft)
     Is this a decent car to learn how to reduce to its component parts and
put back together?
     would some other rover be a better car and could I afford it and find
one for sale (I am looking for less than $9k) like maybe the defender 109
or a series rover?

I really appreciate this group as a resource and though I don't currently
know much about cars, I would like to learn and I need some help making
this purchase .

Carl Coryell-Martin
ccoryell@hmc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 96 07:18:51 EST
From: dmccor03@counsel.com (David McCormack -- Hinshaw ^ Culbertson - Brookfield )
Subject: portable winches

 To:	rro@land-rover.team.net		Inet 	

I still can't figure out if a portable winch is more or less
convenient than a permanently mounted winch.
Pros:  winch from both ends (although I recognize one can snake
the cable under the vehicle and do the same thing with a permanent
front mounted winch 'though in mud it would probably be a real
bitch - not that slogging around in the mud with 90 pounds of dead
weight wouldn't); less worry of theft; less exposure to elements;
less concern of adding weight to the front end; plus the front
receiver has added benefits such as being able to push a trailer
down a boat ramp etc.  In the case of the Discovery there are some
added benefits, the receiver is handy as a tow point or a hi-lift
jack point.  Cons:  less secure mounting point for the winch (in
theory anyway); convenience, since every time one winches they
have to drag the winch out of the vehicle; and the inevitable
getting stuck the one time you decide not to bring the winch
along.  Hmmmmmm.    

Any more thoughts?

Best personal regards, 

Dave McCormack
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 43 lines 1936 [forwarded 146 whitespace 474]
 Output: lines 1619 [content 974  forwarded 98 (cut  48) whitespace 450]

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