The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 07:02:34 -0800
Subject: Re: Hella's 

On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, KKelly6788@aol.com wrote:

>want to first try improving what you have.  I have Hella H-4 European
>headlights that replaced the main headlights. 

Definitely agree.  I started with lucas incadescent, upgraded to Hella halogens 
and finally I have H4 lamps.  The H4 setup is not Hella, however, with a great 
savings in money.  They are knockoffs named 'Autopal' but have the same lens and 
use Hella bulbs.  They cost about $25 each, complete.  If anyone is interested, 
e-mail me and I'll see if I can find where I got them.

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:08:33 -0500
Subject: Re: D90 Rain Windows

In a message dated 96-03-01 21:02:01 EST, you write:

> but at speed, rain blows in from 
>behind so I am not sure how much plastic side windows would help.They 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>You mention removing the rear plastic windows from your soft top - was 
>your top modified? My '94 windows are sewn in, but the '95s zip out.

Thanks David.  I didn't think of that, the "from behind" attack.  I guess the
plastics won't do much for that.  I'll post any attempts or success/failure I
have with my ideas.  

Since I bought my '94 in May of '95, very late, I got the 95 Besstop fitted,
not the Tickford.  While I like the besstop side rails as opposed to the
tickford snaps for securing the top, I really like the way your windows just
roll up and get tied.  Yea, I can unzip and remove mine, but then what the
heck do you do with em?  Again, same problem with the doortops, can't  leave
them in the truck, theft.  Maybe I could sew some snap-straps up top so I
could tie them up like yours.  At least a vandal  wouldn't be able to just
grab them and run, and they would "look" like they were permanently attached.
 

Regarding teh tonneau cover, I never did figure out where to put the metal
bar that came with mine, you use it? .  I ran my tonneau without it and never
had a problem.  I also didn't use the center snap-strap that goes up to the
snap on the roll bar.  I assume  this is to pull up slightly on the cover to
form an apex for rain to slide off.  I guess I'll be using it here!! :>)  

John, 94 d90, 95 top, 94 tonneau cover(with snaps, not belt rail--so I got
both snaps AND beltrail system)

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 08:19:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Potential Rover Owner Looking for help

On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, ccoryell@osiris.ac.hmc.edu wrote:
>I am a college student contemplating the purchase of my first vehicle.   I
>am looking for a SUV type thing for general transportation and mountain
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>likely to satisfy my needs.
>        I would really appreciate any and all information and advice that
>people care to give me.

>     how do these things hold up/ how much regular maintainance is required?
>      and how much does said maintaince cost?

They hold up very well if the maintenance is done properly.  The 3.5 litre V8 
engine needs regular oil changes or it will self destruct.  Being a So. Cal 
vehicle you probably don't have too much rust, although you should check the 
rear tailgate for such attack.  Maintenance costs what you want it to cost.  If 
you can't or wont do much of the work yourself, you will get raped on the cost. 
 I'm convinced that around here, there is an extra $20 an hour tacked onto the 
shop rate as soon as you mention Range Rover.  They're realtively basic vehicles 
but you get handed a bunch of BS about them being exceedingly 'foreign' and 
complex in order to justify the higher bills.  Parts, of course, cost more than 
with a US built vehicle.

>     how can I be assured that the guy is selling me a good car?

You can't.  Get someone who knows cars very well (mechanic you trust, other RRO) 
to inspect the vehicle from top to bottom.

>     which engine/other components of interest does vehicle probably have?
>     which type of 4 wheel drive does it have?

The Rover has a 3.5 litre V8 engine.  It is a very good powerplant with lots of 
low-end torque. If you're comparing it to some US SUV, its not the most powerful 
in the world but it gets you where you want to go.  All Range Rovers have full 
time four wheel drive....far superior to the 'all wheel drive' found in some 
newer vehicles.  The vehicle in question is also what's called "gray market", 
not officially imported by Land Rover.  This means that various modifications 
may have had to be done to meet emmissions spec.  Get a good mechanic to check 
the quality of installation

     should I throw caution to the wind and just buy it because it is
	cooler than any ford explorer could ever hope to be?

You may buy it because of that but don't throw caution into the wind!  There are 
Range Rovers for sale out there, don't settle for an unknown quantity as far as 
the mechanicals are concerned.

>     do people take range rovers on mountain roads, are they really
>capable, or is it just advertising? (the guy seemed shocked I might take it
>off road)

NO, IT IS NOT JUST ADVERTISING.  The Range Rover has the most capable off-road 
suspention of any vehicle sold in this country.  It is not even remotely 
comparable to any other SUV.  Axle articulation is phenomenal, allowing all four 
wheels to stay in contact with the ground when the going gets tough.  The Range 
Rover was the first vehicle to cross the Darien Gap, a previously impassable 
section of jungle in South America.  The RR was in the Camel Trophy one year and 
the current Discoveries in the Trophy have almost exactly the same running gear. 
 I have been on many off-road excursions with RRs and they never fail to perform 
better than anything else out on the trail (except maybe a D90) Yeah, he seemed 
shocked that you would take it off-road, that's because its percieved as a 
luxury vehicle...under the plush exterior it is an incredible machine.

>     how do they do at high altitudes (>7000 ft)

The V8 engine (which I believe is carbureted) works fine at altitude.  I had my 
V8 at 9400ft in Colorado for 2 months with seemingly no ill effects and I didn't 
do any tuning for the altitude.

>     Is this a decent car to learn how to reduce to its component parts and
>put back together?

No, probably not.  It is as complex as any vehicle of that vintage.  With proper 
guidance you can learn how to work on it, but it might be difficult.  If you 
want raw simplicity go for a "Series" Land Rover.  They are rugged, capable and 
dirt simple...as well as being uncomfortable.  As a tool for learning about 
cars, they are second to none.

>     would some other rover be a better car and could I afford it and find
>one for sale (I am looking for less than $9k) like maybe the defender 109
>or a series rover?

Well, there's no such thing as a Defender 109...the Defender 110 is way out of 
your price range.  You can find a good Series Land Rover (88 or 109) for your 
price range...buyer beware, however, Series Vehicles are older and many have 
been abused.

Well, good luck to you...owning a Rover goes beyond the vehicle, you buy into a 
great group of people....

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 09:02:59 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: D90 Rain Windows

On Sat, 2 Mar 1996 PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:
> Since I bought my '94 in May of '95, very late, I got the 95 Besstop fitted,
> not the Tickford.  While I like the besstop side rails as opposed to the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> snap on the roll bar.  I assume  this is to pull up slightly on the cover to
> form an apex for rain to slide off.  I guess I'll be using it here!! :>)  

Dear John:
I always thought that the zip out soft top windows were better than the 
roll ups - I guess the grass is always greener.....  I did find after a 
long trip that driving with the Tickford windows unzipped and rolled up, 
that mine acquired "distinctive" bands of haziness (little scratches!) 
due to plastic rubbing against plastic, probably with a bit of road grit 
blown in at speed (not so great for visibility; but maybe I can think of 
it as a "rear window vanity feature for changing clothes in back or some 
such thing.)

I, too, don't know what the long metal piece that comes with the tonneau 
cover is for, so it sits in my garage. I use the cover a lot in the rain. 
And snapping the strap to the roll bar does help in getting the water to 
roll off (instead of forward and into) the D90. I have some waterproof 
seat covers that I got from Rovers North a couple of years ago (one of 
their Christmas specials) That were designed for a RR (or Discovery): so 
they kind of flop around at speed, but keep the seat cushions dry (and my 
pants wet!). I also keep a squeegie and towel in the dashboard bin to 
wipe the water off the inside of the windshield. In a 'good' rain, 
driving at speed, considerable rain blows onto the inside of the 
windshield, also, droplets congregate and coalesce on the inside of the 
surrey top, which then fall onto the driver. But such a rain does a 
*great* job of washing off dust.

I also have one of those yellow "Gloucester Fisherman" hats (stored 
*somewhere* in the Land Rover) but I've never quite had the nerve or need 
to "tie it on."

Best,
David

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 11:32:10 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Portable winches

> In a message dated 96-03-01 15:42:36 EST, a-robw@MICROSOFT.com (Robert Watson
 (CNA)) writes:
 
  I know (from personal experience) it's very easy to have
a hi-power (e.g. 9K# capacity) winch to do more harm then good if used
incorrectly or inappropriately (but we won't talk about that right
now....) >

Even a low rated winch can do a lot of harm (read, kill you) if you 
use it wrong. Anything up to 12,000# should be no problem if used 
properly and mounted correctly. 

In the "mounted correctly" mind set, keep in mind what class III 
recievers are rated. If I'm not mistaken it's about 10,000#.
If you snatch block an 8000# winch, you have the potential of 
exceeding the hitch rating. Of course the hitch has some safety 
factor and you're not too likely to be using a snatch block when 
winching backwards, but there's many a time I've stalled my winch in 
a two line pull. That's a 16000# load. I have mine mounted properly 
in my front bumper with grade 8 bolts and nuts, but if I'd gone the 
receiver route, it would have been mounted in a receiver in the front 
also, and exceeded it's rating.
The moral is, no matter how you mount it, don't forget it's (and 
your) limits. A winch can be LETHAL.

As for what size winch to get, if you're mainly using it for self 
extraction, or pulling out another off-roader, a 6000# winch is 
plenty. Remember, many people use capstan winches that use manila 
rope and are rated at 3000# or less. With a 6000# and a snatch block, 
you can make a 12000# pull on the first wrap. If it takes more than 
that to get you out, you've got other problems.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 12:41:50 -0500 (EST)
From: John Antram <rewt@sover.net>
Subject: Air Damns on the discovery

	Yesterday, I over-estimated the height of the air damn/bumper 
caps on our '95 Discovery and crunched it into a snowbank while making a 
tight turn. I was able to pull the corner back out without trouble. Has 
anyone followed the instructions in the message from a couple of months 
back on removing the airdam and trimming the bumper caps? I'm curious 
about how to trim the caps. I have a jig saw, if that sounds like the way 
to go. ( Damn silly air dams anyways! - we want Approach Angle! :)

	Also, we are approaching 13K miles on the discovery and I would 
like to switch to synthetic oils in the diffs, transmission ( 5-speed manual ) 
and engine. Has anyone made this conversion and what brands have you 
selected? Also, have you observed any improvement in fuel economy?

John Antram	rewt@sover.net     RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, VT  05753
1972 Land Rover Series III 88", sunrooves (badly improvised by PO), Red
1995 Land Rover Discovery, 5-speed, sunrooves, Roman Bronze
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL, Anthracite Gray

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 12:01:47 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Range Rover Speedometers

The speedometer became erratic and the odometer failed on my '88 RR at 
100,000 miles. The dealership replaced the speedo cable. At 130,000 
miles, the odometer froze again with a clicking like you describe. I 
dismantled the dash just enough to get my hands on where the cable runs 
into the angle piece and gave it a couple of good hard tugs. That fixed 
it. At 134,000 miles and climbing,

Shaun Carrigan

> I don't want to buy another speedometer unless I have to. THe symptoms
>      this one is displaying are the same as the failure of the original
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>      87 RR with noisy speedo
>      87 RR with quiet speedo

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 15:10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy IV)

John asked,
>        Also, we are approaching 13K miles on the discovery and I would
>like to switch to synthetic oils in the diffs, transmission ( 5-speed manual )
>and engine. Has anyone made this conversion and what brands have you
>selected? Also, have you observed any improvement in fuel economy?

     My wife's '95 Disco just hit 14,500 miles and at the last oil change
we switched to Mobil-1 10W-30 in the engine.  I've been running it in my
'87 RR since last year without a problem(read increased leaks).  It's more
expensive, but Mobil recommends to change the filter 3,000 miles after the
change and then change the oil again at 6,000 miles intervals.

Cheers!  John Cassidy
1987 RR
1995 Disco
1966 IIA SWB Petrol

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:39:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: Hella's 

one question reguarding upgrading lights-did you experience any voltage
prob. when upping the wattage? I run 85 watt bulbs in my driving lamps but
have wondered if I should put in a bigger relay to handle the power.
thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 16:51:21 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: Range Rover Speedometers

On Sat, 2 Mar 1996, Shaun Carrigan wrote:
you guys are lucky! ive replaced my speedo 3 times! the third one packed
it in with 19000 on it so i gave up who needs a speedo anyway!
cheers

> The speedometer became erratic and the odometer failed on my '88 RR at 
> 100,000 miles. The dealership replaced the speedo cable. At 130,000 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
> >      87 RR with noisy speedo
> >      87 RR with quiet speedo

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 19:17:12 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Arizona dedication of Great Western Trail

Thought This might be of interest to some:

Date: 29 Feb 1996 16:14:10 -0700
From: "Terry Heslin" <theslin@prpo01.pr.state.az.us>
Subject: Arizona's Great Western Trail

Arizona's Great Western Trail (GWT) will take a huge step toward 
realization
on Saturday, April 20, 1996 at 10:00 AM Arizona time.  The Arizona State
Association of 4x4 Clubs, Arizona State Parks OHV Program, Tonto 
National
Forest, The Great Western Trail Association, Arizona Game and Fish and 
the
Bureau of Land Management will be celebrating the dedication of the 
first
official 10 mile segment of the GWT, which is the Bulldog Canyon Trail 
from
the Blue Point Bridge on the Bush Highway to Apache Junction.  We will 
have a
ribbon cutting, entertainment, and a 4x4 run to mark the historic event. 
 And
naturally you are invited to join the fun!!
If you saw the November 1995 edition of Arizona Highways magazine you 
read
the story "Carving Out a Trail for Backroad Adventurers" which featured 
the
GWT.  The Arizona GWT will connect backroads from Mexico to the Utah 
border
and beyond to Canada.  Arizona's portion will connect nearly 800 miles 
of
dirt roads, everything from high clearance (4x4 needed only as backup) 
to
very technical 3+ rock crawling.  Dedicated 4x4 enthusiasts have been 
working
on this awesome idea for years, and April 20 will be the historic day 
when
all that work starts to pay off in the form of an official designation 
of the
GWT.  This is a bit of good news to counter the alarming amount of road
closures on public land.  I'm working on getting a flyer posted on the 
web to
give folks a little more detail on the event.  It will be posted on 
Arizona
State Parks Home Page at http://www.pr.state.az.us/Default.html and on 
the
Arizona State Association of Four Wheel Drive Clubs Home Page and/or 
other
off-highway vehicle pages.  If you are interested you may also contact 
me on
e-mail at theslin@pr.state.az.us and I'll send you a flyer in the snail 
mail.
 Additionally the Arizona Chapter of the Great Western Trail Association 
is
soliciting sponsorship for the dedication, and individual memberships in 
the
Association, of course I can connect interested parties with the 
volunteers
heading up the event.
Happy Trails
==Terry Heslin==
Arizona State Parks
OHV Program Coordinator

-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. #605
Tucson, AZ 85701
lzeltzer@isdnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 02 Mar 1996 20:05:49 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Re: Hella's 

ericz@cloud9.net wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Mar 1996, KKelly6788@aol.com wrote:
> >Before anyone runs out and buys new aux lamps for a Range Rover you might
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> e-mail me and I'll see if I can find where I got them.
> Regards,
> Eric

I would be very interested in a source. Thanks.
-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. #605
Tucson, AZ 85701
lzeltzer@isdnet.com

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 1996 22:21:11 -0500
Subject: Re: portable winches

In a message dated 96-03-02 07:37:59 EST, dmccor03@counsel.com (David
McCormack -- Hinshaw ^ Culbertson - Brookfield) writes:

>Cons:  less secure mounting point for the winch (in
>theory anyway); convenience, since every time one winches they
>have to drag the winch out of the vehicle; and the inevitable
>getting stuck the one time you decide not to bring the winch
>along.  Hmmmmmm.    

I don't think the theory holds as to your point about less secure mounting
point.  I have the Warn setup from RN and the front receiver is extremelly
well built.  It can be installed by one person but two is better since you
have to line up the bumper and the front receiver and get two bolts through
them.

My only regret is that I didn't shop around.  I may be incorrect but I
believe the Warn setup can be purchased just about anywhere.  The front
receiver is another story.

Hope this helps....
Gerry "Phoenix, AZ" Elam

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 02 Mar 96 23:58:09 EST
Subject: Bumper Stickers

I forgot who first mentioned making bumper stickers, but their is a member of
our club (SoLaRos) who has recently started his own graphic arts company, after
several years in the business. He has printed several T-shirts for us, along
with Mugs, decals and other stuff. He is willing to print up whatever we need,
at a very good price. If anyone is interested let me know and I will get started
on it.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 02-Mar-1996

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 08:49:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Hella's 

In a message dated 96-03-02 10:22:24 EST, you write:

>Definitely agree.  I started with lucas incadescent, upgraded to Hella
>halogens and finally I have H4 lamps.  The H4 setup is not Hella, however,
with a
>great savings in money.  They are knockoffs named 'Autopal' but have the
same lens
>and use Hella bulbs.  They cost about $25 each, complete.  If anyone is
>interested, e-mail me and I'll see if I can find where I got them.
>Regards,
>Eric

If you come across the info Eric, I'd like it.  After thinking about those
Hella Vision headlamps, seeing your 25$ estimate against the 43.50 for the
Hellas is very intriguing.
thanks, John. D90 

------------------------------

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