The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:30:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Hella's 

>prob. when upping the wattage? I run 85 watt bulbs in my driving lamps but
>have wondered if I should put in a bigger relay to handle the power.
>thanks!

    I replaced my sealed-beams with the Hella units and the 80/100W bulbs
    in my '87 RR over five years ago and have not had any problems with the
    electrics.  One did eventually crack though; I recommend covers to
    protect that expensive glass.

    Alan Pollard
    Colorado Springs

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:52:50 -0500
Subject: re: Potential Rover Owner Looking for help

    Carl,

    I commend you on your good taste as evidenced in your interest in a
    Range Rover.  A couple of notes on the "gray market" rovers:

    RRs of that vintage typically have a version of the Chrysler 3-speed
    automatic transmission, which is pretty reliable but doesn't really have
    enough gears for such a small engine in such a heavy car.  The other
    concern is in the carbueration.  I had experience with one gray
    market RR that had terrible problems with carbueration.  It had
    hardly any power and got horrible gas mileage and no mechanic seemed to
    be able to fix it.  There was some kind of basic incompatibility.
    Therefore, make sure you test drive it extensively and are comfortable
    with its power.

    If you can go the full $9,000, you may actually be able to get an '87
    model, which is the North American Spec model imported by Range Rover.
    I have seen ads for them in the $9K range (and up).  If you can do this,
    you get some tremendous advantages.  These models have electronic fuel
    injection for a huge improvement in dependability, driveability, and
    power, not to mention fuel economy.  They also have the ZF 4-speed auto
    transmission, which gives you more flexibility on the road and more
    torque off-road.  Parts are easier to find and any Land Rover dealer
    will have the parts, expertise, and tools to take care of anything.  For
    a price.

    I have an '87 with about 130K miles and it's still going strong.  I use
    it in the high mountains of Colorado all the time and it does great.

    Good Luck!

    Alan Pollard
    Colorado Springs, CO

I am a college student contemplating the purchase of my first vehicle.   I
am looking for a SUV type thing for general transportation and mountain
trips, but I am on a budget and I am looking for something with
distinctivness and a little class.  I have found for sale in southern
califorina what seems to be a 1984 range rover with 55k on the odometer,
for a very affordable price.  I have been impressed by the features a
foible about rovers that I have read about here and on the web, but I don't
know much specific information about this vehicle or how an old rover is
likely to satisfy my needs.
        I would really appreciate any and all information and advice that
people care to give me.

some specific questions:  what is a reasonable sort of price for this vehicle?
     how do these things hold up/ how much regular maintainance is required?
      and how much does said maintaince cost?
     how can I be assured that the guy is selling me a good car?
     which engine/other components of interest does vehicle probably have?
     which type of 4 wheel drive does it have?
     should I throw caution to the wind and just buy it because it is
cooler than any ford explorer could ever hope to be?
     do people take range rovers on mountain roads, are they really
capable, or is it just advertising? (the guy seemed shocked I might take it
off road)
     how do they do at high altitudes (>7000 ft)
     Is this a decent car to learn how to reduce to its component parts and
put back together?
     would some other rover be a better car and could I afford it and find
one for sale (I am looking for less than $9k) like maybe the defender 109
or a series rover?

I really appreciate this group as a resource and though I don't currently
know much about cars, I would like to learn and I need some help making
this purchase .

Carl Coryell-Martin
ccoryell@hmc.edu

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 04 Mar 96 08:58:28 MST
Subject: Who says LR's leak???

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486

I've always put up with various minor seepage on virtually all oil
filled areas of all my LR's. But more recently, I've really noticed how
much *more* my Acura leaks, and my roommates Chevy pickup, and my other
roommates Mercury. All 3 of my LR's combined don't leak as much as
*any* one of the other "Exxon Valdeese's" parked in front of my house!
In fact, the LR's are the only ones that I'll "allow" to park in the
driveway, since they "don't leak". (That is, they don't leak like a
sieve, only tiny little drips.)

So I say... "Cheers to Land-Rover"! Always room for improvement, but
great work overall!

Dave (a satisfied customer) Brown

#=======#         _________           We make a living by what we get,
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___        we make a life by what we give.
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                       Winston Churchill

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 08:00:32 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Potential Rover Owner Looking for help

ccoryell@osiris.ac.hmc.edu wrote:
 
> some specific questions:  what is a reasonable sort of price for this vehicle?

Here's what Edmund's has to say about the '87 Rangie, the first 
model year legally imported into the US (or find this at 
http://www.enews.com:80/magazines/edmunds/edweb/used/LandRover/1987/LandRoverRangeRover1987.html):

) 1996 Edmund Publications Corporation 

Spring Edition

1987 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER

Top of File || Pricing || Mileage Adjustment || Explanation 

1987 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER 

EDMUND'S PRICING

4WD                                     BaseLst     Whlse      Retail
--------------------------------        -------    -------    -------
4 Dr Spt Utility                        $30,825    $ 9,375    $11,525

Top of File || Pricing || Mileage Adjustment || Explanation 

1987 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER 

MILEAGE ADJUSTMENT

                      Wholesale   
     Mileage       $4,000-$10,000 
----------------   ---------------
0 to 7,000             +1270   
7,000 to 14,000        +1250   
14,000 to 21,00        +1220   
21,000 to 28,00        +1170   
28,000 to 35,00        +1130   
35,000 to 42,00        +1070   
42,000 to 49,00        +1020   
49,000 to 56,00         +940   
56,000 to 63,00         +850   
63,000 to 70,00         +670   
70,000 to 77,00         +520   
77,000 to 84,00         +420   
84,000 to 91,00         +170   
91,000 to 98,00            0   
98,000 and Up           -980

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:03:59 GMT -0600
Subject: winches, portable and not

I'm putting together what I hope to be a rather comprehensive piece on
winches for Land Rovers. Models, pros & cons, usage/safety, stuff like
that. I'm interested in finding out what model winch you have on your
Solihull product, how you like it, any special modifications you made
to mounting/connecting it and any memorable experiences you've had
using it, good, bad or embarrassing. I won't use any names unless you
really want me to. Thanks.

Also,
I can't remember if I ever postd the name of the portable winch 
someone was asking about months ago.
It's called the Lewis winch and has a 4000# single line pull with 
150' of 3/16" cable. It weighs 20lbs and is powered by your chain saw.
Made by Lewis Products Company. The one place that I know of that 
sells it is Forestry Suppliers in Louisiana. That's all the info I 
have.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:09:27 GMT -0600
Subject: toys list

Just got word from Dixon he's working on a mailing list for for Rover 
toys. It may be a while, but keep on the lookout for two lists, one 
for Series toys, and one for coil sprung toys.

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:15:04 -0500
Subject: Re: Spring

In a message dated 96-03-04 07:47:46 EST, you write:

>John,
> They key is expectations. , but remain cynical.   

Ha, now I am beginning to remember Dave, thanks for the brain tune-up.  Since
it is still winter, that means I can wish for lots of snow Snow SNow SNOW!
JOhn. D90-er

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 16:35:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: hugh.davies@rnb.com (Hugh J.E. Davies)
Subject: re: Potential Rover Owner Looking for help

>     These models have electronic fuel
>     injection for a huge improvement in dependability,

Not if it's the Lucas Fi as in my '89 Vogue EFi. In 3 years of ownership
it's gone wrong several times.

There's a good reason for all those jokes, you know ...

Hu.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:46:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.emr.ca>
Subject: Re: winches, portable and not

On Mon, 4 Mar 1996, Tom Rowe wrote:

> I'm putting together what I hope to be a rather comprehensive piece on
> winches for Land Rovers. Models, pros & cons, usage/safety, stuff like
> that. any memorable experiences you've had using it, good, bad or 
> embarrassing. I won't use any names unless you really want me to. Thanks.

	Remember this?

>From trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU Mon Jul 11 11:39:13 1994
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:03:59 GMT -0600
From: Tom Rowe <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Subject: emergency winches

I have invented a really neat emergency winch for my Land Rover.  I carry 
a really long length of that yellow nylon rope, about 3/4" in diameter
in the back of the truck.  When I get stuck I thread the rope either out
through the back or front of the truck, tying it off in the u-joint of the
front or back driveshaft.  It all depends which way I really want to go.
Tried it a couple of times already.  Works well, but it is a bit of a pain
to replace the driveshafts with such regularity, but hey, I'm keen!  Thanks
for the leads on those neat books.  What was one called?  "Winching in 
Safety"?  I'll have to write the author with my new emergency procedures.
I know I'll get a mention!

Thanks for the help!

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:10:57 -0500
Subject: Camel Trophy Team Members

The International Selections and driver training for the Camel Trophy was
last week in Seville Spain.  The two U.S. Camel Trophy team members were
chosen at the end of the week from the four finalists.  

They are:

Ken Cameron from Vail Colorado, a carpenter for a log home construction
company, an avid four wheeler and a volunteer member of Vail mountain rescue.

Fred Hoess from Stanhope New Jersey, a sales and marketing manager for Ducati
motorcycles in the U.S., and a former motorcycle endurance champion.  He has
also raced cars, bicycles, jet skis and snowmobiles.

The Camel Trophy this year will be held in Kalimanten, Indonesia. It starts
on April 1st and will last three weeks.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: Yrjo.Makinen@picker.fi
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 19:21:09 +0300
Subject: Re: diesel vs petrol

      --What about bringing LPG gas conversions into the debate this 
      time. 

      Why not converting to wood gas? It would have many benefits. 
      Never run out of fuel in the woods... 

     --ONLY JOKING!!!!
      Me too!!!!
      
      Yrjo Makinen

------------------------------

Date: 04 Mar 96 12:26:24 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Potential RR owner

     Just a few more thoughts for you to consider
     1: Gray Market cars are generally worth up to 1/3 less than "legit" 
     cars. Make sure that all the documentation is complete and the car is 
     as legal as possible. Take the 87 legit car price and subtract $ 
     accordingly
     2: Off road- they are great. Practice and prudence makes perfect. 
     3: High altitude. Problem area for cars with Carbs. the lower oxygen 
     levels up there force people to rejet their carbs.  Had terrible 
     trouble starting a carb rental car on Mt Washington 10 years ago (6k 
     feet). Fuel injection compensates automatically. you also lose power 
     as altitude increases
     4: mechanical issues. Every part on a RR is or seems twice as heavy as 
     anything on a boring normal style car. Be prepared.
     5: HP Carbed rr never gave out more than 135hp or so. Only the Fuel 
     injection engines ever had catalytic converters from the factory. Cats 
     suck up power so the European 135hp must be lesswith a cat. 3.5EFI 
     versions have 150-155 with the cat. 
     6: Last but not least. You'll fall in love with the car, be warned 
     about Roveritis, Friends and family will not understand until they are 
     given off road rides.
     Enjoy
     Chris Browne
      

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 09:56:05 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Potential RR owner

Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com wrote:

>      Fuel injection compensates automatically. you also lose power
>      as altitude increases

You do certainly lose power with the fuel-injected V8 at altitude. My 
Discovery is distinctly wheezier at 5700 feet where I live than at 1800 
feet where I work. You just give yourself more time to "accelerate" on 
the mountain roads.

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:50:25 -0500
Subject: re: Potential Rover Owner Looking for help

>>     These models have electronic fuel
>>     injection for a huge improvement in dependability,

>Not if it's the Lucas Fi as in my '89 Vogue EFi. In 3 years of ownership
>it's gone wrong several times.

>There's a good reason for all those jokes, you know ...

>Hu.

    Eight years and 130K miles on my NAS '87 with nary an EFI problem (knock
    on wood).  My Lucas EFI components are apparently mated with Hitachi.
    It would seem that in this case Hitachi had the dominant genes.

    AP

------------------------------

Date: 04 Mar 96 14:03:50 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Potential RR owner

     
     Cboese said- You do certainly lose power with the fuel-injected V8 at 
     altitude. My Discovery is distinctly wheezier at 5700 feet where I 
     live than at 1800 feet where I work. 
     
     Your right, my brain cell was wheezing when I wrote that lack of 
     caffeine!
     
     We all lose power as we go higher,  No O2 no go. Have climbed Mt 
     Washington (in NH) in my Disco and on foot. Disco handled it alot 
     better than I did. 
     
     Have to say this-I like this list alot better than the other one.
     regards
     Chris Browne
     95 discovery 13k and smiling
     

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Bens or VW diesel conversions???

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------

> In the AW is an AD for a Mercedes 300D engine with adapter. 
>    This is the question:  Has anyone driven this conversion? & how good is 
> this conversion really?  

I would also like to hear of anyone's experiences or ideas about this.  I 
had considered the M/B 5-cyl turbo diesel and transmission for a conversion at one point 
before I found something else for my project, but still think it would be a 
good option.  I was particularly intrigued that this engine uses a ZF 
transmission, but had not gotten as far as determining the similarities to 
the LR/RR units.  For instance, can the LR transfer case from an Auto ZF be 
fitted to the M/B ZF autobox? 
  Any thoughts?

Rgds,
Ron Franklin
109 coil sprung diesel project

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 14:47:23 -0600
From: William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Come alongs

I've heard several people say they use Come Alongs (hand operated
pulleys) and was considering getting one for emergency recovery until I
can afford a real winch.  I would like any opinions on using one and on
what to look for.

  I've been hesitant to use one because it scares me to think of standing
right next to a wire under that much tension.  Isn't that partly why
winches have remotes, to get you out of harms way in case something
snaps. It's especially scary since most seem to have much lower
ratings that the average winch.  (or is the mechanism designed not to be
able to create more pull than the device and wire can handle, ie, the
listed limit is the limit of the pull it can produce, not the limit of its
structural safety?)  

 Any thoughts.

------------------------------

Date:  Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:55:00 -0500 
From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" <chrisz@bnr.ca>
Subject:  re:Camel Trophy Team Members 

Anybody know if this is going to be carried on TSN this year in Canada?

In message "Camel Trophy Team Members", KKelly6788@aol.com writes:

>The International Selections and driver training for the Camel Trophy was
>last week in Seville Spain.  The two U.S. Camel Trophy team members were
>chosen at the end of the week from the four finalists.  

------------------------------

Christian Szpilfogel
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
chrisz@bnr.ca   Work: (613) 763-5713   FAX:  (613) 765-4855           
---------------------------------------------------------------
My Opinions are my own and you may borrow them, if you wish, 
but I want them back when you're done.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 10:45:26 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Chaff

LRO CONTENT
------------------------
If I had known how much petty bickering / namecalling /
bandwidth_wasting_chatter / general_lack_of_respect went on in LRO, I would
have bought a  LANDCRUISER instead of my disco! :-) (before the flames melt
my monitor, notice the smiley)

RRO CONTENT
-----------------------
Actually, I have owned CJ's, FJ's,  Montero's, Bronco's (old style) in the
past and I can truthfully say the Disco V8i has the most perfect blend of
comfort, power,on-road handling, off-road ability, cargo carrying capability
of them all! Reliability and repair cost are the only issues that still
scare me about my disco!

paul.orland@chs.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:47:59 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: central locking system

>The power lock acuator on the tailgate is exactly the same as the ones in
>back and passenger side doors. 

Thanks to all for the tailgate lock advice, it looks like I should be able 
to retrofit my '88.  I'll keep you posted.

>The easiest way to do this would be to buy all the parts you need from a
>junkyard.  I was reading the Feb. issue of Hemmings Motor News and after
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>they have 25 Range Rovers, these guys are a huge professionally run junk yard
>and they have been advertising in the BMW club magazine for years.

I called, and they sell the tailgate hatch complete, so I can't get a lock 
that way.  Kevin, next time you have to replace yours <grin>, tell me more 
about the german inscriptions, maybe there's a compatible M-B part.

>If anyone calls AAA Small Car World for parts I am curious what they would
>sell a full set of County burlwood for?  I would never post a question about

I asked and he knew what I was talking about, and said he'd call me back.  
If/when he does, I'll pass it on.

On a different subject, I tried subscribing to cso-digest (supposed to be 
the digest form of rro), but never received anything.  Anyone know if the 
digest is functional?

-Matt

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Sun, 3 Mar 1996 13:55:59 +0000
Subject:       Re: Come alongs

> From:          William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
> Subject:       Come alongs

snip

> I've heard several people say they use Come Alongs (hand operated
> pulleys) and was considering getting one for emergency recovery until I
> can afford a real winch.

snip

>   I've been hesitant to use one because it scares me to think of standing
> right next to a wire under that much tension. 

I have a regular winch setup, but I also have a hand operated 
come-along device. I would be concerned about safety with it, myne is 
rated at ~1500-2000 lbs, I would be very careful at loads even getting 
close to the lower amount. I have mine for sheer emergency 
situations, or situations that require stabilization in two 
directions ( keeping vehicle upright, while not letting it go 
forwards off a cliff or something, plus I use it as an "extra" safety 
strap in the back of my vehicle ( over and above a netting system ) 
to keep all my stuff in place.

Myne was ~$20 U.S., there probably are heartier ones out there!

Tomw
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Come alongs
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 15:35:43 MST

William Owen says...

: I've heard several people say they use Come Alongs (hand operated
: pulleys) and was considering getting one for emergency recovery until I
: can afford a real winch.  I would like any opinions on using one and on
: what to look for.
: 
:   I've been hesitant to use one because it scares me to think of standing
: right next to a wire under that much tension.  Isn't that partly why
: winches have remotes, to get you out of harms way in case something
: snaps. It's especially scary since most seem to have much lower
: ratings that the average winch.

I've been carrying a 4000# come-along until I can afford to get a real
winch (I carry a BIG tow strap too).  Yes, a come-along at or near its
rated pull probably isn't something you want to stand next to ("always
observe safety precautions").  But, some are built heavier than others,
so if you get one, get a strong one.  They should be just fine for
emergency use when all other options have failed, but I would not
recommend them as a winch replacement.  Some beleive a hi-lift jack is
just as useful, and no more expensive.

What to look for:  lots of heavy gauge cable, solid cast construction,
4000# rating (minimum).  A logging, rigging, or truck supply store is
probably your best bet for finding a really good one, but ranch supply
stores should carry them too ("fence pullers").  I remember seeing an
add in the back of Four Wheeler magazine for one that sounded pretty
decent.

I haven't had to use my come-along yet, so I could be competely wrong
about them...

--
Jeffrey J. Gauvin		email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com
Symbios Logic Inc.		Voice: 719-573-3563
1635 Aeroplaza Dr.		FAX: 719-573-3824
Colorado Springs, CO 80916

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 96 17:15:29 -0600
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Doing business with Euro-Parts

I can now give a report on Euro-Parts. I ordered a drain plug,  
trailer wiring harness and spare serpentine belt for my Disco about a  
month ago. These things arrived the other day, all genuine parts.  
Though it took a while for my order to come, this was in part because  
they sent the stuff with an error in the address and it came back.  
They asked for no money or credit card up front and only now by  
e-mail have given me a bill. They thoughtfully included a second belt  
for 4.0 96 Disco because they were not sure of the difference between  
them. I sent the extra belt back. The owner called me at his expense  
to verify address for the order &c.
	The prices are good, 6.00 a filter as opposed to 8.00 at RN,  
24.80 on belt and 3.69 for plug, 5.00 at RN. The wiring harness was  
to be 41.00 instead of the 50 RN charges but this did not work out so  
I paid the 50.00 and they will take off the difference from another  
order I am placing on filters. The shipping was a little high, 9.50  
for 3 day UPS which I did not need, so in dealing with them specify  
if the slowest cheapest way is best. So from what I can tell on the  
basis of this one experience, they are a good place for parts cheaper  
than AB and RN, if you don't mind waiting a while. I hope this allays  
some of the anxieties voiced about them earlier on the list.  John  
Friedman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 16:32:36 -0700
From: "Lee Zeltzer" <lzeltzer@isdnet.com>
Subject: Re: Doing business with Euro-Parts

John B. Friedman wrote:
> I can now give a report on Euro-Parts. I ordered a drain plug,
> trailer wiring harness and spare serpentine belt for my Disco about a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
> than AB and RN, if you don't mind waiting a while. I hope this allays
> some of the anxieties voiced about them earlier on the list.  John
> Friedman

Thanks for the feedback. From the prior discussion I was thinking that 
these people had a contagous disease. I am glad it was nothing more than 
vendor-phobia.
-- 
Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant
Innovative System Design
100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605
Tucson AZ 85701
(520)791-3323 X 21
http://www.isdnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 20:38:32 -0500 (EST)
From: John Antram <rewt@sover.net>
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Bens or VW diesel conversions???

> I would also like to hear of anyone's experiences or ideas about this.  I 
> had considered the M/B 5-cyl turbo diesel and transmission for a 

	I was wondering much the same thing - our 300SDL is a 6-cyl 3 
litre ( appox - can check the book though ) turbo diesel. This engine has 
a trap-oxidizer on it and it very rarely makes diesel smell. While this 
engine is larger then the more-common 5 cyl from the 300 (123 body) 
series, I'm curious if there is a way to mount this engine ( 300SD, SDL) 
in a rover as I think this is the engine used in the small Benz delivery 
trucks/vans. I don't think there are many of these engines in the US, but 
I may be wrong.

John Antram	rewt@sover.net     RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, VT  05753
1972 Land Rover Series III 88", sunrooves (badly improvised by PO), Red
1995 Land Rover Discovery, 5-speed, sunrooves, Roman Bronze
1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL, Anthracite Gray

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:16:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Potential RR owner

In a message dated 96-03-04 12:51:11 EST, you write:

> Just a few more thoughts for you to consider
>     1: Gray Market cars are generally worth up to 1/3 less than "legit" 
>     cars. Make sure that all the documentation is complete and the car is 
>     as legal as possible. Take the 87 legit car price and subtract $ 
>     accordingly

I don't remember if the original poster lived in California, but, if it
really IS  a grey market car... forget it.  Even WITH all the proper paper
work you can expect a hassle every 2 years when you go to smog it.  If the
car is really a bargain, and you can assure yourself that you have all
necessary documentation regarding smog, like epa cert or carb cert documents
after it was converted, then AT LEAST:  have the seller get you a smog
certificate upon sale  to show that is is smoggable.  DO NOT LET THE SELLER
TALK YOU INTO SMOGGING IT YOURSELF FOR REDUCED PRICE unless you know a smog
mechanic who will help you out (nudge nudge, know what ah mean, naughty
pictures, pictures, nudge, knowwhutahmean...)

John, ex California native (hey, i was there for more than 3 years...) 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 00:17:31 -0500 (EST)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy IV)
Subject: Coming up For Air!/RR questions

      Just felt that I had to post to let you all know how nice it is to
read mail from this list(memories of the way the LRO list was) and how my
blood pressure seems to increase when I'm opening the LRO-Digest each day!
It's once again pleasant to be among fellow owners who do not pre-judge
people based on the vehicle types listed in their sig.!
      A couple of questions about my RR that maybe some of you can help me
with...The bottom edge of the driver's door is rubbing on the aluminum trim
piece on floor of the truck.  When I take the bottom rearmost edge of the
door and lift it straight up, there is some play.  I had "Smedley," in for
replacement of the driver's side floor-board this past summer, and I wonder
if they removed the door while they were working.  The hinge mounting bolts
appear untouched(read...still full of off-road dust).  Has anyone had a
similar problem.  I wonder if its actually the hinge wearing out.  Haven't
taken the door off yet(obviously) but will post when I know what's going
on.
      The aforementioned welding on the floor was required because of the
damn leaking of water through the mud-flap mounting holes.  I put stainless
bolts and new metal and rubber washers back in to try and seal the water
out, but I'm still getting leaks.  Should I use silicone(if so, what type),
or some other kind of automotive sealer?
       To update you all on the "upgrading," of Smedley so far; new
Bilstein shocks and steering damper, new polyurethane bushing set, OME
springs, brush bar and rear light protectors.  Plans for him include a
new(used) transmission with the viscous center diff., a winch, and possibly
a Chevy heart transplant this fall.  My powerplant questions have elicited
comments about keeping the Rover engine and making it better.  I'm not a
mechanic, but from all I have read on the subject, a conversion seems a
cheaper and possibly more dependable option at this point(I welcome
arguments to sway me to work on the 3.5L).  Maybe I'll let the list members
help me decide which way to go...I don't plan on doing the engine until
this fall.
        Sorry for so much bandwith, but I had to express my feelings about
the split...I never thought I would welcome another forum, but as with
others, I have come to feel that enough is enough.  I have time for ALL
messages with contents about ANY/ALL Rovers, but no time for inflammatory,
spiteful, bigoted diatribes that serve to alienate any members of our
on-line Land Rover community!

Cheers!  John Cassidy    Bangor, Maine USA

1966 IIA SWB Petrol(no name)
1987 Range Rover(Smedley)
1995 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 21:26:47 -0800
From: brbonar@ix.netcom.com (Bruce R. Bonar )
Subject: Re: Come alongs

You wrote: 
>I've heard several people say they use Come Alongs (hand operated
>pulleys)

>I would like any opinions on using one and on
>what to look for.

I used a "Beebe Brothers Ratchet Hoist C-400H" 2 ton come-a-long for 
years before I got an electric winch.  I believe Beebe is made by 
Ingersol-Rand.  They are very well made and virtually indestructable.  
I use them in industrial construction and they hold up extremely well.  
I still carry the come-along as more than once I've needed to pull the 
backend around, or out, and the winch is on the front, naturally.  
Can't have too much recovery equipment. :-)

snip

>  I've been hesitant to use one because it scares me to think of 
standing
>right next to a wire under that much tension. 

Typically, the handle is designed to bend before you can overload the 
cable or frame, assuming the cable is in good shape of course.  

Bruce Bonar
94 D-90  "Spot"

------------------------------

From: ericz@cloud9.net
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 22:07:43 -0800
Subject: Re: Come alongs

	

On Mon, 04 Mar 1996, William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us> wrote:
>I've heard several people say they use Come Alongs (hand operated
>pulleys) and was considering getting one for emergency recovery until I
>can afford a real winch.  I would like any opinions on using one and on
>what to look for.

To have enough pulling power, many use what is called a 'Tirfor' winch.  It is 
hand operated like a come along but you feed the cable through it so the cable 
never spools on a drum.  This has several advantages:  first, it has a greater 
pulling distance (as long as the cable), second, it allows you to pull the wire 
through to take up the slack (always a pain with a come along), third, it is 
completely portable so you can pull at whater point/angle desired, fourth, it is 
possible to pull much more than with a come along.  I don't know if there is a 
saftey cut-out but it would seem that with muscle power you would be able to 
guage when its getting near an unsafe load and find another way to recover.  
Most cable breakages happen with unsafe (read dirty, chafed, improperly routed) 
practices when winching.

I've never seen one in the US...does anyone know where to find one?

Regards,
Eric

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Tirfor winches
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 17:55:39 +0930 (CST)

Eric mentions:

> To have enough pulling power, many use what is called a 'Tirfor' winch.
(snip description of advantages deleted)

> I don't know if there is a saftey cut-out but it would seem that with
muscle power you would be able to guage when its getting near an unsafe
load and find another way to recover.  Most cable breakages happen with
unsafe (read dirty, chafed, improperly routed)  practices when winching.

The Tirfor T516 I have is safety rated 1600Kg vertical lift, 2500Kg
horizontal drag.  There are shear pins in the operating arms, nominally
rated at 4500Kg (spares are originally kept in the engaging handle but
fall out rattling around in the back of a rover.) The cable used for these
winches is something like 10.2 mm (ISTR that its not a "standard" size so
that cheap nasty cable wont work in the unit) rated at 9600Kg (?) break
(this could be wrong but the other figures are correct)

I carry two snatch blocks but have only ever needed the one (touch wood)
They make a big difference when you are swing on the end of the lever for 
a while (expect 10mm gain per stroke without snatch block....) 

cheers

P.S. The T516 is the mid sized "modern" Tirfor and seems to be the most 
popular size for our sized vehicles.  The Suzuki gang go for the smaller 
T508. Never seen anyone other than truckers carrying the larger one (T525 ?)

-- 

  Daryl Webb   (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au)

------------------------------

From: Yrjo.Makinen@picker.fi
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 1996 12:15:34 +0300
Subject: Re: diesel vs petrol

      --What about bringing LPG gas conversions into the debate this 
      time. 

      Why not converting to wood gas? It would have many benefits. 
      Never run out of fuel in the woods... 

     --ONLY JOKING!!!!
      Me too!!!!
      
      Yrjo Makinen

------------------------------

Date: 05 Mar 96 09:16:19 EST
From: Jim Roth <74245.1226@compuserve.com>
Subject: subscribre

subscribe rro-digest

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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