The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 96 07:44:07 EST
Subject: Grille Badges

All,

Thanks for the responses; my grille-badge-like requirement 
has been met.

Best regards,
Hank  (60 Ser 2 109 AND 95 Disco 5-sp)

A __*__ addict as the __*__ police?  I don't think so!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:33:27 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  Convertible Range Rover

(I posted this to the LRO, so some of you may have already seen this
part of the msg)...

I was just reading the latest issue of Land Rover World, when I
noticed a mention about a new, "top-option" model Range Rover. (I got
a couple "scoff-like" responses from the LRO list, but maybe I didn't
explain my finding enough).

In LRW, after recapping the Rangie's latest accolades and selling
successes, they state:

"LRNA will, of course, be hoping to keep it up next year, when the
Range Rover 4.6HSE will be in the frame. Just launched in the U.S.,
the top-option model completes a Land Rover range that really is
taking the market by storm."

Has anyone else heard anything about this new "top-option" model? I
think it'd be pretty interesting to see... (and I'm not talking about
a "conversion" type, either...).

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 08:18:08 -0500
Subject: Re: "Leaky" Land Rovers

    FWIW, my '87 RR with 130,000 miles only burns a quart every three
    thousand miles.  As long as you're still under warranty you might as
    well have the dealer check it out.

    Alan Pollard
    Colorado Springs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:52:09 EST
From: dmccor03@counsel.com (David McCormack -- Hinshaw ^ Culbertson - Brookfield )
Subject: Defender 90 vs Jeep

 To:	rro@land-rover.team.net		Inet 	

Gol' darn it!  Why can't I be looking for a Defender to use in
Montana!??!

Dave McCormack - happy in Wisconsin, but missing Montana.
"95 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:52:12 EST
From: dmccor03@counsel.com (David McCormack -- Hinshaw ^ Culbertson - Brookfield )
Subject: Disco Questions . . 

 To:	rro@land-rover.team.net		Inet 	

I've been looking into bull bars for awhile for my '95 Discovery. 
Maybe it is because of the air bag issue, but I agree that the
factory brush guard is pretty flimsy.  Personally, I was
interested in something that could fend off an occasional deer, be
used for towing and pushing and possibly be used to mount a winch.
 The best product I found was the ARB winch bar.  The problem is
that it supposedly may interfere with the operation of the air bag
system.  Why exactly that is still eludes me.  On one hand, I
understand that the air bags are triggered by an inertia switch -
so one would think that a good bull bar would not interfere.  On
the other hand, I've been told that the front of the Disco
actually needs to crumple in order for the bags to deploy and a
non-flimsy bull bar may prevent that or somehow channel the force
to the frame, thus interfering with the sensors.  

There may be other factors at work.  Mounting a heavy piece of
metal on the front of vehicles is contrary to the move towards
crumple zones etc.  Legally, the industry seems leery of such
attachments (a standard reply is - that has not been tested - we
can't recommend it until it has been approved, etc.).  A good bull
bar will probably inflict heavier damage on other vehicles in an
accident and will probably increase mortality in
vehicle/pedestrian accidents.  I've noticed that versions of bull
bars are popping up on all sorts of domestic trucks and SUVs - I
hope not, but can legislation be far off?

Still looking for an air bag approved bull bar with strength,

Dave McCormack
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:41:51 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: RR console heat

The daffodils are blooming and hot weather can't be far behind here in 
Nashville. This brings to mind my RR's annoying problem of excessive 
heat and oily odor emanating from the transmission console which seemed 
worse than usual last summer. 

I suspect this is due in part to the fact that three of the plastic nubs 
that hold the shift selector cover onto the the console have failed. 
Upon shifting, the cover often rides up the shifter column a half inch 
or so before sliding back into place. One option is to replace the cover 
(I haven't priced it yet but am sure it will be $100 plus). Another is 
to fasten it down with some discreet sheet metal screws. Not OEM, but I 
can always fit a stock cover later if I can't stand the jury-rig.

Before doing anything, though, my question is: have others noticed a 
worsening of the console heat and odor situation as their rangies 
mature? Has anyone tried adding insulation inside the console to counter 
the problem?

Shaun Carrigan
'88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 09:43:05 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: hand winch experiences?

Thanks for the ongoing thread on hand winches. Very enlightening. Does 
anyone have any actual hand winch/come along recovery experiences to 
relate?

Shaun Carrigan
'88 RR

------------------------------

Date: 06 Mar 96 11:21:35 EST
From: Tom Snurka <76550.2503@compuserve.com>
Subject: Nudge Bars

>>3. I want to get a Brush guard/Bull bar. I've heard the LR Genuine is kind of
wimpy.<<

Really?  Don't tell my daughter!  She got a little behind on her steering once
last summer and knocked down a whole bunch of fence posts with it and the only
damage to it was superficial.  The plastic coating IS kinda wimpy; the #9 barbed
wire went right through it.  Gives it a great look though.  Scares the bejeezus
out of the cattle I chase with it.  If I ever get rich (or, pay the thing off)
I'm goig to get it stripped and have it powder coated.

------------------------------

Date: 06 Mar 96 11:21:32 EST
From: Tom Snurka <76550.2503@compuserve.com>
Subject: Body Roll

RE: From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>

>>My shocks were shot at 23K miles, I replaced them with Old Man Emu <<

I've got 20K on the Disco and I'm in the hunt for a better suspension.  However,
I'm not in the mood for a truck that will cause one to pee blood for two days
after driving.  I had an FJ40 which did that and I'm now 16 years older and age
has taken its toll on this old body.    As an old autocrosser with a stiffly
sprung, hard damped (Bilsteins), anti-sway barred, poly bushed, 2002 in the
garage, I'm used to point and shoot driving.  That definitely ain't what I'm
looking for from the Disco.  Suspensions are, at best,  a compromise and I want
to modify what the kids in Solihull have engineered to something with a little
less wander on the road, and a little less roll around the X axis while not
giving up the relatively great off-road suspension articulation and on-road ride
characteristics.   I'm not asking for the world, am I?  Suggestions? 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 08:52:36 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: "Leaky" Land Rovers

Dave Townsend wrote, about oil loss:

> I have a similar problem with my 91 Range Rover,
> and I'd be interested if other people can comment.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> to account for such a loss & no leaky spots on the driveway
> either.

A few months ago, on one of several futile trips to my dealer (that's 
another story), I had a chat with an immaculate guy with an immaculate 
'93 Range Rover. It was clear he'd never given his Rangie a second of 
abuse or ever dreamed of taking it off-road. But he was seeing about a 
quart of oil vanish about every 1000 miles. There was no sign of leakage; 
it just seemed to be disappearing. I suspect this just happens-another 
English eccentricity.

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 09:50:27 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: "Leaky" Land Rovers

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996 apollard@arinc.com wrote:
I also own an 87 but i change oil every 2500 or so and I don't  use any
oil--this is after my wife boiled ALL the water out of the engine because
of a waterpump pulley failure! ("gee the needle went to the red but then
went above it so I figured it was ok")!!! after replacing the waterpump it
has ran fine for 2 years!!! > 
>     FWIW, my '87 RR with 130,000 miles only burns a quart every three
>     thousand miles.  As long as you're still under warranty you might as
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>     Alan Pollard
>     Colorado Springs

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:18:39 -0500 (EST)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy IV)
Subject: RR Oil Filters/Brake Pads

   Picked up a Fram PH16 at the local store for $3.99(too much $?).  Am
currently using Crosland #637(from Atlantic British).  Are there any other
filters  that are also applicable?
   Time to change the brake pads on my '87 RR.  Parts guy states that
Bendix makes front pads(#D519) and rear pads(#D518) which go for $45.42 and
$37.92 respectivey.  This is a lot less than AB wants($60/axle).  Any
problems with not using the wear sensors?

Cheers!  John Cassidy  Bangor, Maine

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Disco Power
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 10:29:21 MST

Tom Snurka says:

: I knew I'd stir up a hornet's nest here.
: 
: First, ignition timing.  I have not tested this below 2,000 ft. MSL.  At that
: altitude I was able to advance the ignition 3 degrees to 8 degrees BTDC (from
: stock 5 degrees BTDC) with no pre-ignition.  I was only able to test this with
: 91 RON ( LRNA recommended) gasoline.  At about 5-7K ft MSL I have advanced the
: idle ignition timing  to 9-10 degrees BTDC with no apparent problems.  This was
: done with 87 RON gasoline.  Again no pre-ignition.  Acceleration (and
: drivability) is noticeably improved.  The only potential drawback is the lack of
: pre-ignition sensor on the Disco.  However, I have monitored all the appropriate
: indicators, e.g., operating temp, plug condition, and have seen no potential
: problems to date whatsoever.  If the gas prices continue to climb I shall test
: this configuration with 85 RON fuel and will report soonest.

OK, I double checked the Four Wheeler article I referenced yesterday,
and I was wrong...they didn't advance the timing to 12 degrees BTDC,
they advanced it to 13 degrees BTDC!  They said the engine "responded
significantly" to the advance.  They didn't say whether or not they had
to use aviation gas...

Sounds like there is quite a bit of room to play with the timing.

On an unrelated note, I stalled my engine this morning within minutes of
the initial starting, and had a @#$% of a time restarting.  The outside
temp was quite chilly (it's snowing right now).  That's twice now that
this has happened.  I recall reading that this is a computer problem?
The CPU thinks that the restart is a cold start because engine temp is
low and tries to flood the engine, when in reality the engine is "warm"
and needs no more fuel.  After several minutes of cranking with the
pedal to the floor the engine begins to kick over and finally starts.
Is there a solution to this problem? A new PROM maybe?

It's a bit embarassing to be sitting in one of Solihull's Finest with
the emergency flashers on while being passed by J**Ps :-(

--
Jeff "here we go again" Gauvin
'94 D90

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 10:06:41 -0500
Subject: Re: hand winch experiences?

>Thanks for the ongoing thread on hand winches. Very enlightening. Does 
>anyone have any actual hand winch/come along recovery experiences to 
>relate?

    I once used a cheap "heavy duty" come-along to help stabilize and
    reorient a tipped over 88 while righting it in the middle of a hill.
    (Driver error, of course).  It was a pain in the neck.  Not enough
    cable, not enough mechanical advantage, flimsy construction.  I still
    keep it around but have no illusions about it being a very good recovery
    tool.

    Alan Pollard
    Colorado Springs
    87 RR

    P.S. to Shaun: No increase in tunnel heat and no oily smell at all for
    130K miles.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 12:09:36 -0400
From: jim@kidd.com (jnk)
Subject: Rover Rally

All,

O.K. guys and gals, the 1996 Suwannee River Valley Rover Rally is
tentatively set for April 19-21 in Lake City, Florida. Bring your parts
you'd like to swap or sell.

Lake City is located in North Florida at the intersection of I-75 and I-10.
It shouldn't be too difficult to find. The event will be really informal.
We plan to camp in the Osceola National Forest (lots of good trails). The
campground is maintained by the U.S. Forest Service and has water and a
restroom. There are also hotels and motels.

We will be providing a large cooker for anyone who wants to cook. There
will be no fees for anything. Bring what you need to make it through the
weekend. (I'm sure all of us rover guys shouldn't have any problem with
this, hmmm?)

Please E-mail me your snail mail address and I will send you a flyer. Hope
to see a big turnout. There are quite a few regulars in North Florida and
South Georgia that are very knowledgeable and all around great guys.

Oh yeah, how do I get word out to the RR, Disco and Defender guys? Do they
receive LRO Digest posts anymore?

Jim Karantinos
Tallahassee, FL

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 96 13:50:05 EST
From: rdl@NomuraNY.COM (Rob Legerio)
Subject: RE: Disco Power

> Sounds like there is quite a bit of room to play with the timing.

It's a good thing there is, since you can adjust the timing
a degree or so, just by moving the cap on the distributer.
Next time you're under the hood, grab your cap and twist it
side to side. You'll be supprised at how much it moves. The
fit is a joke. Lucas at it's finest.  

Has anyone else noticed this?  Has anyone replaced their distirb
with something else (i.e. - Mallory, Accell, etc.)?

While speaking with someone last year at MSD (some friends and I
race a NASCAR) about ignition boxes, I inquired about stuff for
LRs. He told me that as fas as he knew, LR had changed things
enough so that MSD distribs that fit the original buick blocks
would not work with the LR version.  Too bad, MSD makes real
nice distribs.  

Rob
94 D90

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:46:48 -0500
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Disco stuff

Paul Orland asked four interesting questions:

1. Anyone have a solution for temporary disabling of ABS?
Gosh, is it really necessary?  I assume you mean for offroad.  I haven't
heard a single case of one going off inadvertantly.  And would you want it
if you crashed into a tree or headfirst dwon a gulch?

2. I have always run premium fuel. Any experience with lower octanes?
I'd love to know the answer to this one.  I run premium, but had to run
mid-grade twice.  No noticable difference.  I actually think I got slightly
>better< mileage one time with mid-grade on a highway trip.

3. I want to get a Brush guard/Bull bar. ... Any input on bars or suppliers?
Performance in the UK has lots of options in a variety of prices.  I'm
placing an order soon.  Will update list after stuff arrives.

 4. Is their a digest form of RRO? My attempts to subsribe digest have failed!
Send a message to "Majordomo@playground.Sun.COM" with "subscribe
cso-digest" in the BODY of the message.  Also, unsub to the rro list.  Coil
Sprung Owners list (cso-digest) is the digest form of Range Rover Owner
(rro).

Catch me on the trails.
-Bob

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Tue, 5 Mar 1996 11:33:42 +0000
Subject:       Re: Nudge Bars

> Subject:       Nudge Bars

> >>3. I want to get a Brush guard/Bull bar. I've heard the LR Genuine is kind of
> wimpy.<<
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> out of the cattle I chase with it.  If I ever get rich (or, pay the thing off)
> I'm goig to get it stripped and have it powder coated.

I hit a deer doing about 35 mph ( obviously I had no choice in this 
matter! ( last time I said this some moron flamed me for hitting the 
thing ( Ya like I was cruisin for venissan or something ?) ) )

Anyhow, I had the stock Brush Bar, it bent real bad took out my front 
light and bent into the right front qaurter panel. Admittedly if the 
Bar wasn't there it would have gotten much worse. As it was it cost 
about $2500 bucks to put back together. The deer did get up and run 
away ( I suspect, this was unfortunately just a near term thing for, 
since it was a very solid feeling hit ).

I took the opportunity to replace the brush gaurd with the ARB winch 
bar. It won't bend ( easily anyways ) . I beleive the airbag issue 
with these is crush zone related. There are two "crush cups" on the 
stock Disco bumper ( they just stick out a tad ). I am consider 
putting ( if it fits nicely ) the military stile J##P like bumperette 
thingys on the arb to compensate.

or avoiding hitting things :)

Tomw
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 12:38:01 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: More on bull bars...

> A good bull
>bar will probably inflict heavier damage on other vehicles in an
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>bars are popping up on all sorts of domestic trucks and SUVs - I
>hope not, but can legislation be far off?

UK evidently had some recent legislation outlawing bull bars that was
narowly defeated. LR has a new "soft" bull bar that is not yet available in
the US that is intended to address pedestrains getting killed by bull bars...

-Paul.
paul.orland@chs.com
94 Disco, currently covered with mud Red

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 12:38:00 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: SRS and Bull Bars

> The best product I found was the ARB winch bar.  The problem is
>that it supposedly may interfere with the operation of the air bag
>system.  Why exactly that is still eludes me.  On one hand, I
>understand that the air bags are triggered by an inertia switch -

I'm guessing here so don't take my advice then sue me :-)

I think it's a regulatory thing. Crash testing must be done with the bull
bar in place, and no one other than LR is willing to sacrifice a nice new
disco to get certification?

Any other opinions? Anyone wreck their disco with a non-LR bull bar? Did
your airbags deploy? Kind of hope I *don't* here any replies to this one!

- Paul.
paul.orland@chs.com
94 LR Disco, VERY red, needing a bull bar

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@mail.biddeford.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 16:07:50 -0500
Subject: Re: hand winch experiences?

> >Thanks for the ongoing thread on hand winches. Very enlightening. Does 
> >anyone have any actual hand winch/come along recovery experiences to 
> >relate?

I have a come- along Manufactured by Maasdam, called a Pow'r-pull, which is 
rated at 2000 lbs and comes with a snatch block to achieve it.  It is part 
of my recovery kit and I carry it everywhere.  While I 
have a Koenig winch at the front of my 88, when I am plowing snow and end 
up buried up to the cab in a mountain of my own making, it isn't much use.  
The little come-along has pulled me out of these situations more times than 
I can remember, including some times when I had to pull the back end 
sideways to get straight.  (Not as hard as it sounds on icy snow with 
spinning tires). Just put it in low 1st, set the hand throttle so it doesn't 
stall, get out and crank on the come-along until you straighten out, get 
back in, (very quickly if the wheels get a grip),  take it out of gear, 
reset the come- along to the rear with a ;stretch strap, and put some pressure on it.
  Then it's reverse until the 
strap is slack, take up some more tension on the strap, and repeat until 
you get some traction.  Of course this also involves  a great deal of 
shoveling to free the plow which is acting as a ground anchor on the wrong 
end.
For those of you who remember my early season post about how great winter 
was and how much I enjoyed plowing... can you tell I'm ready for Spring?

Ron Franklin 

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 13:33:19 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Re: Disco stuff

At 02:46 PM 3/6/96 -0500, Robert A. Virzi wrote:
>Paul Orland asked four interesting questions:
>1. Anyone have a solution for temporary disabling of ABS?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>heard a single case of one going off inadvertantly.  And would you want it
>if you crashed into a tree or headfirst dwon a gulch?

Locking the brakes on sand, gravel and deep snow will give significantly
shorter stopping distances than with the ABS. A wedge gets built up in front
of the sliding wheels providing a greatly increased coef. of sliding
friction. 30% of my driving is on dirt roads with lots of curves, and I
found the ABS *really* disconcerting for the first couple of days of
aggressive dirt road driving. I'm kind of getting used to it now, but would
still like to be able to lock the wheels on command.. Aggressive
downshifting (5sp) will lock up the wheels, but is not as instinctive or
fast as mashing the brake pedal, not to mention harder on the drivetrain.
With the all wheel drive and ABS, often the  throttle is more effective than
the brake in negotiating a sharp off road corner. Braking a corner in the
Disco produces lots of understeer, but a quick squirt of petrol brings the
back end around. I've also found that this works better with the center diff
locked.

- Paul
paul.orland@chs.com
94 disco, very dusty Red

------------------------------

Date: 06 Mar 96 16:29:16 EST
From: Tom Snurka <76550.2503@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Disco Power

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: RE: Disco Power

>>OK, I double checked the Four Wheeler article I referenced yesterday,
and I was wrong...they didn't advance the timing to 12 degrees BTDC,
they advanced it to 13 degrees BTDC!  They said the engine "responded
significantly" to the advance.  They didn't say whether or not they had
to use aviation gas...

Sounds like there is quite a bit of room to play with the timing.<<

Jeff,
I concur that there is probably "quite a bit of room to play with the timing,"
but, like I said before, the 3.9L V8 does not have a pre-ignition "knock" sensor
onboard and therefore no help if you get into trouble with pre-ignition caused
by overly advanced igniton timing curve.  I think caution is the byword here, I
remember grenading a perfectly good motor a few years back because of an overly
aggressive ignition timing and therefore, I'm a wee bit cautious on giving any
potentially gonzo advice.  You and I have to live with and pay for our mistakes,
the boys from FWD mag just give it back to the manufacturer.  Although a blowed
up motor does have its up side.  An excuse for the 4.5L Dakar beast, of course!

>> After several minutes of cranking with the pedal to the floor the engine
begins to kick over and finally starts.  Is there a solution to this problem? A
new PROM maybe?<<

Sorry for wasting bandwidth here but, just who really makes this particular EFI
system and does anyone out there really know what's going on in there?  From
everything I've learned so far it seems pretty primitive by today's standards.
Am I correct or not?

I've seen an advert or two in either LRW or LROI that talk about performance
PROM's for the 3.9L but have not investigated them whatsoever.  I don't even
know whether they would be applicable to NA 3.9's.   Hopefully, one of the NA
hot shoe tuners will take the project on and design us a better fuel management
program than we have now.  Any Aussie or Brit subscribers be of any help here?
I fondly remember the upgrade chip I installed on my '85 Bimmer and the
difference in driveablility and efficiency it gave me.  All for a couple three C
notes!  

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:35:42 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: D90's and J**ps

>Dear Arnold,
>Your response to Darrell about the D90 compared to the J**p shows that
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>David
>94 D90

David:

True!!  Hell I'll be the first to admit that I don't play wth the full deck
sometimes *laugh*......Ahhhh but Land Rover....I will drive the damn Disco
into the ground (in forty years) if the Prince of Darkness does';t have it
in for me...(might have to rip out everything electronic)....and then
rebuild it...and drive until I die......that's OK with me....we buy land
rovers.....are we all nuts?

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

 

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Defender 90 vs Jeep CJ
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:42:52 -0800

I traded my Jeep Wrangler for a Disco because I wanted all the
"mobility" of the Jeep, but needed more room for the kids. What I got
was MUCH more mobility than the Jeep and a whole bunch more room. On
recent trail rides, my stock Disco has gone everywhere the modified
Jeeps have gone without having to sling mud and make a big scene about
it. Frankly, I chicken out long before the Discovery even breaks a sweat
and that's going places my Wrangler wouldn't even consider! The D-90
would likely take it even further. 

If you want a hobby (i.e. fixing, adding and replacing parts all the
time) buy a Jeep, if you want a vehicle to take you to outrageous places
with disgusting ease, buy the LR. When all is said and done, you'll have
spent more for (and on) the Jeep than the LR and the LR will have a much
higher resale value as well.

Just my $.04
>----------
>From: 	PremierLe@aol.com[SMTP:PremierLe@aol.com]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
>Thanks
>Darrell

    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA
  |  _|=3D  |=3D  |o_  }\               
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

>----------
=00

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 13:46:42 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: SRS and Bull Bars

Paul Orland wrote:

> I think it's a regulatory thing. Crash testing must be done with the bull
> bar in place, and no one other than LR is willing to sacrifice a nice new
> disco to get certification?

I remember a thread a few months ago on that other list about Discovery 
roo bars. Crash testing, someone insisted, had been performed on a 
Discovery with bars, and those stock bars had been approved for use with 
SRS. Then someone else said that the airbags are inertially, not 
mechanically triggered (the sensors are accelerometers.) Ergo, you can 
use any bars you want, but if there's a lawsuit you won't have a case 
unless you had the stock bars.

Of course, those who posted on this subject weren't from the government, 
so take my memories for what they're worth.

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:46:57 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: Rover Insanity

>Dear Arnold,
>Your response to Darrell about the D90 compared to the J**p shows that
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>David
>94 D90

David:

True!!  Hell I'll be the first to admit that I don't play wth the full deck
sometimes *laugh*......Ahhhh but Land Rover....I will drive the damn Disco
into the ground (in forty years) if the Prince of Darkness does';t have it
in for me...(might have to rip out everything electronic)....and then
rebuild it...and drive until I die......that's OK with me....we buy land
rovers.....are we all nuts?

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

 

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Disco Power
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 13:50:23 -0800

Tom sent me this info a couple of weeks ago, and I spent an hour that
weekend "hopping-up" the Disco (reminded me of High-School) Living at
Sea-Level (more or less) I didn't notice much change with the timing so
I left it at about 8-BTDC (Book says 6, I believe). The biggest change
came from taking about 1/4" out of the Transmission Throttle position
sensor cable (via the adjusting nuts) The transmission shifts a bit
later (and just a bit "harder") but it seems much more "zippy" as a
result.
    _____
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA
  |  _|=3D  |=3D  |o_  }\               
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

=00

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Tue, 5 Mar 1996 13:58:26 +0000
Subject:       Re: Re[2]: Disco Power

> Date:          06 Mar 96 09:03:08 EST
> From:          <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
> To:            <tomw@netcom.com>,
>                </DV=internet#c#rro#l#a#r#land#l#055#r#rover.team.net/DT=ID/PRMD=CSMAIL/ADMD=COMPUSERVE/C=US@CSERVE.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM>
> Subject:       Re[2]: Disco Power

>      Tom 
> I replaced them with Old Man Emu ( I could put Trac Edge tires on.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
>      lift how's the ride compare to stock?
>      chris browne

The tires are BF Goodrich Trac Edges, LT 235/85R16

You NEED ( at least ) the OME HEAVY DUTY springs ( OME shocks have 
longer travel, you may need them ( they by themselves ( or the 
bilstiens ) at the least give the firmer, sportier ride you want ) )

These tires are to big without the lift!!!! its about 1.5->2 inches 
of lift ( with tires and springs ) ( I tried Medium duty springs in the 
rear but the tires rubbed on full wheel articulation, I snipped some 
( non showing ) metal behind the rear wheels ( not much, about the 
size and shape of half a dorito ( boy am I hungry! ) ), 
This metal is NOT visible to you unless you are under the vehicle ( 
you may not need it if you just do the HEAVY DUTY springs ???

The ride with just the shocks and springs is very good, no body roll! 
and no bleeding kidneys either, add the tires and it gets a slight 
ballooney, bouncy feel at certain times. These Tires ARE GREAT 
OFFROAD, and GOOD onroad until you hit higher speeds ( over 70 ) it 
gets ballooney. I have the stock tires on other rims for long road 
trips with no chance of offroading etc... ( not much chance of that 
:)

These tires kick butt in the MUD over the stock michellens.

Tomw
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 14:03:15 -0800
Subject: Re: Disco stuff

This question of ABS offroad is interesting. I remember when I
bought my 95 disco, I distinctly remember being told/reading that
the ABS actually works in dirt properly: the wheels will lock up
instead of fluttering. Somehow the system is supposed to recognize
the difference between off and on road situations. It may have
something to do with speed and possibly a locked diff/low. The idea
is exactly as you say: they wanted the dirt to pile up to help in
the braking offroad. Sounds like it either doesn't work or requires
something like low.

On Mar 6,  1:33pm, Paul Orland wrote:
> Subject: Re: Disco stuff
> At 02:46 PM 3/6/96 -0500, Robert A. Virzi wrote:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> >1. Anyone have a solution for temporary disabling of ABS?
> >Gosh, is it really necessary?  I assume you mean for offroad.  I
haven't
> >heard a single case of one going off inadvertantly.  And would
you want it
> >if you crashed into a tree or headfirst dwon a gulch?
> Locking the brakes on sand, gravel and deep snow will give
> >Paul Orland asked four interesting questions:
significantly
> shorter stopping distances than with the ABS. A wedge gets built
up in front
> of the sliding wheels providing a greatly increased coef. of
sliding
> friction. 30% of my driving is on dirt roads with lots of curves,
and I
> found the ABS *really* disconcerting for the first couple of days
of
> aggressive dirt road driving. I'm kind of getting used to it now,
but would
> still like to be able to lock the wheels on command.. Aggressive
> downshifting (5sp) will lock up the wheels, but is not as
instinctive or
> fast as mashing the brake pedal, not to mention harder on the
drivetrain.
> With the all wheel drive and ABS, often the  throttle is more
effective than
> the brake in negotiating a sharp off road corner. Braking a
corner in the
> Disco produces lots of understeer, but a quick squirt of petrol
brings the
> back end around. I've also found that this works better with the
center diff
> locked.
> - Paul
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> 94 disco, very dusty Red
>-- End of excerpt from Paul Orland

-- 
Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 15:09:25 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: More on bull bars...

On Wed, 6 Mar 1996, Paul Orland wrote:
in the London Daily Telegraph there have been a series of articles on
"BANNING BULL BARS" I guess in ENGLAND  it hurts more when, as a
pedestrian weighing 160# you get hit by a 3 ton rnage rover WITH bull
bars??!!! > > A good
bull > >bar will probably inflict heavier damage on other vehicles in an
> >accident and will probably increase mortality in
> >vehicle/pedestrian accidents.  I've noticed that versions of bull
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> paul.orland@chs.com
> 94 Disco, currently covered with mud Red

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 15:58:29 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Re: Disco stuff

At 02:03 PM 3/6/96 -0800, Clayton Kirkwood wrote:
> It may have
>something to do with speed and possibly a locked diff/low. 

I will check this out tonight. See if brakes lock in low/locked. Will report
tomorrow!

- Paul.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 17:18:55 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Re: SRS and Bull Bars

At 01:46 PM 3/6/96 -0800, Christopher Boese wrote:
>> Then someone else said that the airbags are inertially, not 
>mechanically triggered (the sensors are accelerometers.) Ergo, you can 
>use any bars you want, but if there's a lawsuit you won't have a case 
>unless you had the stock bars.

This agrees with what I know about airbag systems. I plan on using a on-LR
bar and fully expect my airbags to perform in the unlikely event of a collision!

- Paul.

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:33:22 -0500
Subject: Range Rover Convertibles

>all the convertible Range Rovers that I ever saw were two door cars

In James Taylor's Range Rover collectors guide 2nd edition there is a photo
of a fully-open '79 Range Rover four door conversion by FLM Panelcraft (they
did a large number of Range Rover convertibles).

A used car dealer here in N. California had a '79 Glenfrome 2 door
convertible for sale a couple months ago.  It was very interesting, but he
wanted $18,000!! 

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:34:22 -0500
Subject: Rovers on the Rubicon Trail

>Has Defender 90's done the Rubicon Trail? How do they compare to the CJ on
>the trail?

I am not sure if a D90 has done it, buy I know that stock Range Rovers have
done the Rubicon Trail.  The D90 is almost identical to the RR underneath but
it has a shorter wheelbase for more maneuverability, less front and rear
overhang that allows better approach and departure angles, and bigger tires
that give more ground clearance.  

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 20:33:32 -0500
Subject: Camel Trophy Trials on TV

When I was at the Camel Trophy Trials in December I met Jeff Simpson the
producer of the Planet X TV show.  Planet X was filming the Trials for a
segment on the Camel Trophy.  The show covers mainly "extreme" sports for the
nationwide Prime Sports cable network.  Jeff called me today and faxed me a
list of all the run times for the show with the CT trials segment.

The show will run across the United States on March 14th - 20th (mostly March
14th and 15th).  Since I don't have a scanner with OCR (yet) I am not going
to type in all the times.  It will run on "The Prime Sports Network" or the
"Sports Channel" in 90% of the country, but will also be on the "Sunshine
Network" in FL, "PASS sports channel" in the mid west, "Sports South" in the
south, and "NESN" in the North East.

Check your local cable TV guides for times, If you can't find it send me an
E-mail and I'll try and look the time up for you.  If people don't mind I'll
repost this on the 13th the day before it starts to air.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: morison@alumni.caltech.edu
Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Trials on TV
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 18:12:44 -0800 (PST)

 I have never heard of these channels.  I only get ESPN, ESPN2, and Prime
 Ticket.  Will it be on any of those?

 Janine
 
> When I was at the Camel Trophy Trials in December I met Jeff Simpson the
> producer of the Planet X TV show.  Planet X was filming the Trials for a
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> repost this on the 13th the day before it starts to air.
> Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@compuserve.com
Date: 06 Mar 96 22:52:59 EST
Subject: Land Rover Rally in CO?

Several months ago, someone posted a message about a Land Rover rally this
summer. I believe it was to be in Colorado sometime in August. Me and a friend
are planning on taking our series rovers to Colorado this summer for some trail
riding and fly fishing as a sort of "bachelor party" for myself, before my
wedding in september. I would like to coordinate my trip out west, with whatever
events are planned around the land rover gathering. I will probably be there the
second and third weeks of august, but the times are still flexible.

Does anyone know any more details about this, such as when, where and how long?

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 06-Mar-1996

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 23:27:06 -0500
Subject: Range Rover Convertibles

>all the convertible Range Rovers that I ever saw were two door cars

In James Taylor's Range Rover collectors guide 2nd edition there is a photo
of a fully-open '79 Range Rover four door conversion by FLM Panelcraft (they
did a large number of Range Rover convertibles).

A used car dealer here in N. California had a '79 Glenfrome 2 door
convertible for sale a couple months ago.  It was very interesting, but he
wanted $18,000!! 

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 21:59:15 -0800
From: brbonar@ix.netcom.com (Bruce R. Bonar )
Subject: Re: GPS

You wrote: 

>Can anyone recommend a hand held GPS unit.

The Trimble "Scout" has given me excellent service.  Various tests 
comparing a Trimble to Garmin and Magellan have indicated the Trimble 
has better reception when under heavy tree cover.  This may be due to 
parallel processors.  An external antenna is essential no matter what 
brand you get, as is a unit which gives location in UTM.  I also 
recommend a 12v adaptor as battery life is limited.  When on an offroad 
trip, I'm usually the navigator, the unit is always on and I'd need a 
trailer for the AA's.

I bought this over a year ago.  If I were buying one now I would get a 
"Scoutmaster" which can be plugged into a PC.  The price of 
Scoutmasters has now dropped to about what I paid for a Scout.  Still 
more expensive than the others but worth it, IMO.  

Bruce Bonar
94 D-90  "Spot"

------------------------------

From: amaravil@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 09:06:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Discovery fuel consumption

I was reading Land Rover Owner INterntional and I came across numerous 
comments and articles that mentioned the Discovery's fuel consumption 
rating.  The mentioned it to be around 33 mpg.  Is that right?  Normally 
they get 29 or 30 and on good days they get 33 or 34. And they say if you 
drive it hard you should get somewhere in the low to mid 20's. What kind of 
Discovery's do they have in the UK?  When I bought my disco I was expecting 
fuel consumption in the teens.
John Maravilla
'95 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: 07 Mar 96 09:39:21 EST
From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com>
Subject: rro list cold start

A while ago I was still wondering what the rro list was there for, with all
those months of zero-traffic, and now I'm having mailbox limit problems if
I don't collect mail for more than 2 days...  Bit unfortunate though that
this should be viewed as a 'split' or 'kick-out' from the main list, which
it really isn't, since all you're really doing is posting different subject
matters to different lists.  I mean, you probably wouldn't advertise
hunting gear in a cooking magazine, right? 'On the other hand', as Tevye
the Milkman would say, being at home in both the Series and the 'p'-world,
I can somehow understand how owners of Series trucks who literally skin
their knuckles and break their fingers just to keep their beasts running
get the creeps when hearing endless complaints about squeaking steering
columns and reading weeklong discussions about pros & cons of various CD
player locations.  And, let's face it, the main-list volume had been
getting a bit out of hand ...

Ok then, here's a 'p'-related contribution I had been holding back for a
while so as not to irritate the 'S'-folks even further. While it's still
relatively cold in the Northern hemisphere the following hints concerning
stalled Discos & RRs might be useful for some.

There had been various suggestions on the main list on how to get a stalled
cold Efi-powered vehicle started.
The most adventurous suggestion was:

> 4. Crank the starter for up to two minutes while vigorously and
>    continuously pumping the accelerator.

That's about the best way to lay up an Efi - powered vehicle until spring,
by then the flooded cylinders might have dried out...
The idead is *not to touch* the accelerator pedal at all and let the ECU
figure it out. If you don't get ignition whithin 15 seconds you might
as well forget it and assume that something's gone wrong. In any case you're
in immediate danger of flooding the cylinders after more then 10 secs. of
cranking.
Push-, tow- or roll-starting a (manual) Efi also requires a special
technique. (This is assuming that the battery is low/dead or the starter/
solenoid is shot) Again, stay right away from the pedal!  As with a normal
engine, you would put in 2nd, maybe 3rd gear, depress the clutch, set the
key to ignition position (charge/oil pressure lights on), get the vehicle
moving and gradually release the clutch to turn the engine once you have
gathered enough momentum.  With the Efi, in addition to this you must turn
the ignition key all the way, as if to start the engine, and *hold it in
this position* until the engine fires up (again not exceeding the 10-15
sec. limit).  The reason behind this:  The Efi needs high fuel pressure in
the fuel lines to operate, and both the fuel pump and the ECU (or rather
the ECU's "start engine" procedure) only begin working as soon as the key
is turned fully to 'ignition'.  If you fail to observe this you can be
pushing that thing around all day without getting as much as a sputter from
the engine.  Automatics can *theoretically* also be push-, tow- or roll-
started (carefully) provided a fixed gear (1 or 2 F) is selected.  The
catch is that the gear would have to have been put in *before* with the
engine still running, and leaving it in when turning off the engine.  Since
most automatic drivers religiously select "P" before turning off the engine
this will normally not be the case.  In any case it's hard on the tranny,
so better wait for the tow truck.

If you already have flooded the cylinders (this will normally be the case
after more than 20 secs. of continuous cranking, and you can *smell* it...)
the "fastest" way to dry things out is to a) depressurize the fuel system
(see manual), b) take out all spark plugs and dry and clean them, and c)
pull out the fuel pump relay (located in front of the ECU, usually the
left-most relay looking down) or the fuel pump fuse and crank engine 3-4
times for about 15 secs.  While you're at it, whiping the distributor cap
clean (internally) and tapping the 'amplifier module' at the side of the
distr. with the handle of a screw driver and checking that the wires on
this module are not cracked or frayed can also work wonders (at least on
older models).  Put everything back in place, and with a bit of luck it
should fire right up.

Wishing you a good start,

Stefan
<Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 42 lines 1770 [forwarded 192 whitespace 413]
 Output: lines 1396 [content 830  forwarded 116 (cut  76) whitespace 380]

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