The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: Matthew Loxton <matthewl@dinet.co.za>
Subject: 15" wheels, Rangie top speed
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:31:11 +-200

The supplier of my to-be 82 Rangie is proposing 15" rims to go with =
Continental RV180 tyres. I have some small doubts on the effect of using =
15" instead of 16", The acceleration should be better, top-end should be =
lower, clearance is slightly lower, and I don't know what the smaller =
wheel will be like in off-road situations. Does anyone have any ideas?

Also, what was the rated top-end speed of the 82 Rangie? The Iveco 2.5 =
TD with T-5 gearbox will be able to give a top speed (has been done =
before on another vehicle) of around 178Km/h (111mph). I have a =
suspicion that this is over the top speed intended for the vehicle =
design and maybe dangerous, any ideas?

Matthew "patience is a virtue"
ZA		S-III (all panels off now)
		82 Rangie (body arriving this w/e)

------------------------------

From: Matthew Loxton <matthewl@dinet.co.za>
Subject: lens water
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 16:33:27 +-200

Andrew wrote...<snip.> I was told by someone that it's normal that the tail 
lenses on my D90  
have some water in them.<snip>..

This, in fact, is a standard feature of the "City" model as opposed to the 
"County". The Solihull design team correctly identified the need for 
water-cooled brake lights for use in city environments where the brake light 
is on for extended periods. It can be ordered from most LR outlets, as can the 
top-up kit consisting of (a)One litre of Lens-Water, (b)Utensils, pouring, 
(c.) grease, dielectric.

Matthew
ZA

------------------------------

From: "Aisla Joni P" <AISLA@ButterFly.Helsinki.Fi>
Date:          Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:59:25 EST DST
Subject:       parts...

Is there places near Toronto (Ontario, Canada), where could I find 
Range Rover parts? The nearest place mentioned on the Rover-net was 
in Calgary, but that's too far. If somebody knows anything concerning
the "problem", please write to me.

 My E-mail address is: Joni.Aisla@Helsinki.fi

Thanks!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 11:28:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Haslam <haslam@alcor.concordia.ca>
Subject: 88RR Chirp

Re: Mike Lenaghan's post:

I too suffered from the neutral switch "chirp". At first, the noise was 
so short in duration that I was convinced that it was purely mechanical, 
without the "chime box" being involved. Then it sounded for more than a 
few milliseconds, so I knew the "box" was involved.

There was a posting last year: a guy had used a rubber band to anchor the 
shift lever to something (what I don't know). This had cured the problem.

I did nothing. The "chirp" is gone! Perhaps salt helped!

Question: you say you removed a wire. Which wire, from what? Did you have 
to "penetrate" the harness to do this?

...chris haslam
Montreal, Canada
88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 08:27:00 PST
From: Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Misc RR Ramblings

I've recently converted from a 70 Series IIA LR to a plushmobile.  I just 
purchased a 88 RR with 80,000 miles from the original owner.  A few 
questions for the masses:

1) I have all his service records (he always had the LR dealer service it) 
and noticed that about every 12-14K miles the brake pads were replaced.  
Every other time the pads were replaced the rotors were also replaced.  Do 
RR's eat brake pads this fast normally?  

2) The fuel tank recall was just performed before I took possession and I 
also noticed that when I fill the tank up the fuel gauge reads just below 
the full mark.  I don't know if this was different than before the recall.

3) There is a beep that occasionally that comes while cornering or going up 
or down a hill.  The original owner had them check it out SEVERAL times.  
They diagnosed the problem as the diff. neutral  switch.  They tried 
several times to adjust the switch but evidently they never fully fixed the 
problem.  Does this sound familiar?  Has anyone disabled the switch?

4) Before reading the owners manual I put in regular unleaded fuel and 
within 30 miles the EFI light came on.  I have since ran 2 tanks of premium 
unleaded and would like to reset the EFI light to see if this fixes the 
problem.  Is there an way to reset it without paying the dealer $65 to do 
it?  

5) How often do the O2 sensors 'really' need to be replaced?  The manual 
states every 82500 miles but the garage I normally use say they likely 
don't need to be changed.

6) Here's a couple that would get the old LR crowd moaning (including 
myself)... We have the factory sun roof...Is there a moon roof (smoked 
glass) roof that can be installed?  How about adding in a CD player?

Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
88 RR
57 Triumph TR3
66 Triumph 2000
75 Triumph TR6
70 Austin Mini Cooper S

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 08:45:11 -0800
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: leaking Discovery alpine windows

It may be that leaks some people are seeing aren't coming only from the 
alpine windows. I also had a leak out of the left rear speaker, but this 
turned out to be due to something quite different from the windows. It 
seems that the seam between the left rear quarter panel and the roof, 
just under the rain gutter, was welded but not sealed. My dealer found 
this fruit of someone at Solihull's forgetfulness (or too many pints the 
night before) by blowing air out through the seam after having doused the 
outside with water. They then shot some sealant into the gap, and the 
rain has stayed outside the truck ever since.

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:07:07 PST
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: Winch Hydraulic D90/Pwr Steering Overheat?

>From PurnellJE@aol.com Tue Mar 19 06:59:47 1996
>Return-Path: <PurnellJE@aol.com>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>> Right before I
>>managed to get on solid ground the power steering fluid overheated.  Not
>>sure how I would have faired if that had also been my winch power source.
                        ^^^^^^  No, I don't proof my posts before I hit
	                         send. Probably should start.....
>Rick, any ideas how/why this happened?  I've never heard of this on any car
>ever?  You were trying to get out at an angle?  Do you think you had the
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>steering cranked to one side for too long and cavatating the pump?  
>John.
Probably all of the above.  Was uphill, with a side angle, trying to steer
against very thick mud.  Definitely was a boil over of power steering fluid.
Lots of smoke.  Openned the hood and could see the where it had flowed over out
of the resevoir.  Engine temp was still reasonable.  That next week was my
15kish check up.  Had the dealer check it out.  (Aren't warranties great.)
I think they just topped it off.  First and only time it has happened.  

-Rick

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:05:10 PST
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: re:: D90 rear bumper, etc.

>Subject: re:: D90 rear bumper, etc.
>Content-Length: 1063
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Wondering how you made out with the latest mod's from Greg at Safari Gard?
>1) Did you get your winch mounting points beefed up like you wanted?

Yes, He's building them in on all future D90 bumpers.  I hope to play with
the winch tommorow.  Visually it looks like it should be stronger.

>2) How did that rear bumper work out? I never tow either and would rather 
>have better departure angle and some rear quarter panel protection.

I like it much better than stock.  Greg came up with two bumperetts (sp?) that 
protect the rear quater panels.  Looks like the serious limiting factor
in departure angle is now the spare tire!  The Dixon-Bates tow point
actually would probably hit first.  Very,  very clean.  Should come from
the dealer this way.  Maybe with the receiver hitch optional for those
who tow.  New 1/4" aluminum skidplate under the gas tank also cleans things up.

>3) How have you wired up two batteries, are you using a master cutoff or 
>selector switch?

I've got two batteries.  Switches are on my wish list.  Hope to get to them
soon.  Just haven't settled on isolator vs soleinoid vs manual switch 
approach yet.  I'd guess I'll do something before summer.  Thinking now
goes something like solenoid control over battery configuration with
a manual power cutoff. 

>4) If I remember correctly, you changed your front setup from the ARB bar 
>to Greg's. Can you tell me why? what are the differences between them? 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>bull bar. I currently have the Superwinch HD bumper, and as I told you 
>before the matching brush bar made by Brownchurch costs a grand at RN.
Approach angle and looks.  I wanted a front skid plate and liked the 
way Greg's integrated with the bumper.  The ARB bumper is much beefier 
than Greg's.  It also weighs much more.   After going with a lighter winch,
the XD9000 vs the XD9000i, and to the Safari Gard bumper I was able to 
go back to the stock front springs. (I had been running the HD D110 springs.)
Main reason was approach angle.  The ARB just ate to much of it up.
Personally think the ARB is overkill.  Much stronger than the D90 frame.

>I originally went with this setup because RN told me the approach angle is 
>better than the ARB. 

I've heard ARB has redesigned the D90 mounts for their bumper to bring it
in closer to the body.  Haven't seen it yet.

>Any pic's yet? Saw your pic of bumper/bull bar/skid plate on the net!
>better than the ARB. 
>I'm considering changing to either the ARB or Greg's setup because I 
May in a couple weeks.  Going out to the desert with Ben Smith and he usually
does a trip report for Roverweb.  Greg took a bunch when I was out there
last week and would probably send you some.

>Getting ready to place an order with Greg soon!
>better than the ARB. 
I also had him build up a Max Tool/Axe mount.  It tucks the axe under the 
bed rail.  Very happy with it.   He added a tie rod guard.  But that
probably won't get tested till Sierra rock crawling season this summer.
Looks like it will work though.

>Thanks,
>Barnett
>I'm considering changing to either the ARB or Greg's setup because I 
>believe that they are stronger? and have the added benefit of the built in 
-Rick

P.S. just posted this to the rro list.  Maybe we can generate some more
D90 discussion.  I kinda of locked on to Safari Gards protection stuff.
Would be interested to know what else people are using.  Except for price,
I think the LRNA bumper mount winch and Camel trophy skid plate are pretty
good options.  Anything else out there?  Anyone have the "new" ARB bumper? 

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 11:15:35 -0600
From: Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY <blckhole@ripco.com>
Subject: Re: Disco Octane

Jeff Gauvin wrote:
> BTW - regarding the recent "Disco Power" thread about advancing your
> timing for high altitudes <snip>

I don't want to re-hash the messages that have already been posted about 
octane requirements BUT..

I was under the impression that most engines with advanced EEC systems 
had a barometric sensor hooked to the EEC that allowed the control 
system to AUTOMATICALLY adjusted ignition timing (within reason) to 
compensate for altitude changes.  Is there any basis in fact for my 
thought or have I been brainwashed, once again, by slick big city 
automotive marketing professionals.

---------------------------###-----------------------------
PROBE ELECTRONICS 100 Higgins Road, Park Ridge IL 60068 USA
Keith J. Morehouse / WB9TIY / Society of Midwest Contesters
847-696-2828  FAX: 847-698-2045  e-mail: blckhole@ripco.com
---------------------------###-----------------------------

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 12:42:08 EST
Subject: Re: 88RR Chirp

     Chris,
     
     the audible warning unit has a 10 pin (flat) connector plugged into 
     it. It is an AMP connector similar to that used in many electronic 
     devices, each individual wire/connector is a push fit in the connector 
     so I didn't "break" or cut any wire. The wire I pulled from the 
     connector was the black/purple one.
     
     Holding or moving the transfer case lever had no effect on the absence 
     or presence of the noise.
     
     The noise I had was much more of a flat click, than a "chirp". Thats 
     why I hadn't suspected the warning box earlier. 
     
     Mike Lenaghan
     

> Subject: 88RR Chirp
> Author:  C.Haslam@ieee.ca at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)]
> Montreal, Canada
> 88 RR

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:49:11 -0500
Subject: Confessions

Bless me fellow Land Rover Owners for I have sinned.  Would the CSO list
please hear my confessions?

Gerry "Phoenix AZ" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:48:02 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Range Rover Fuel Gauge -Reply

I think I missed part of this thread but I seem to have the same problem 
after the recall work on the tank was done. The gauge doesn't quite reach 
full, and the low fuel light comes on with 4 gallons remaining and the 
gauge on empty. I am about to leave on a trip so am postponing going back 
to the dealer on this, but intend to when I get back.

I tried running around on empty for a while to make sure the tank is 
still the same size, and when I ran out of nerve it took 19.2 gallons to 
fill it -- so I guess it is.

Rather a nuisance though...

They did replace the sender on mine as well (I had to pay for that). I am 
wondering if they put in the sender for the new style of gauges that came 
out later in 1989, leading to erroneous readings.

Cheers

John Brabyn

On Mon, 18 Mar 1996, Sanjay Prasad wrote:

> I recently had my tank replaced and have had a similar problem.  It's
> annoying because the range of the RR fuel tank is already so small.  At
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> '90 RR
> Boston, Massachusetts

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 09:54:11 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Misc RR Ramblings

On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Bruce Harding wrote:

> I've recently converted from a 70 Series IIA LR to a plushmobile.  I just 
> purchased a 88 RR with 80,000 miles from the original owner.  A few 
> questions for the masses:

Congratulations!!

> 1) I have all his service records (he always had the LR dealer service it) 
> and noticed that about every 12-14K miles the brake pads were replaced.  
> Every other time the pads were replaced the rotors were also replaced.  Do 
> RR's eat brake pads this fast normally?  

Not in my experience -- maybe they used non-genuine ones??

> 4) Before reading the owners manual I put in regular unleaded fuel and 
> within 30 miles the EFI light came on.  I have since ran 2 tanks of premium 
> unleaded and would like to reset the EFI light to see if this fixes the 
> problem.  Is there an way to reset it without paying the dealer $65 to do 
> it?  

Just disconnect the battery for a minute !

> 5) How often do the O2 sensors 'really' need to be replaced?  The manual 
> states every 82500 miles but the garage I normally use say they likely 
> don't need to be changed.

Wait til the EFI light comes on for real. I changed one at about 95,000 
miules and the other is still original. My dealer recommends keeping them 
til they fail (indicated by the EFI light).

Sorry I don't have much insight on the other points

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 12:55:06 EST
Subject: Re: Misc RR Ramblings

     Bruce,
     
     congratulations on your new purchase: A few comments on your 
     questions. I have 2 87 RRs one with close to 120K miles on it the 
     other with only 47K. I have had the higher mileage one since it had 
     20k miles so I have a lot of experience with it.
     
     1. I have had to replace the rear pads about every 18K miles. The 
     front pads lasted be about 40K miles. I had 80K miles on the clock 
     before I replaced the rotors (actually I waited until 100K for the 
     rears but they were in sad shape!)
     
     2. I'm always filling it up so the guage thing hasn't bothered me!
     
     3.See my posting from yesterday on how to disconnect the neutral 
     switch to fix your beeping (also see today's posting for response to 
     Chris Haslam's question)
     
     4.Just disconnectthe battery for about 20 seconds and the EFI light 
     will be reset. Using lower octane gas should not be the cause of the 
     EFI light coming on - you have another problem somewhere. The coolant 
     sensor and airflow sensor connections have been known to cause 
     intermitent problems, discconnect and clean these before restarting 
     the engine after resetting the EFI light.
     
     5. My higher mileage RR still has the original O2 sensors. The 
     previous owner of the low mileage vehicle had the O2 sensors replaced 
     at 43K miles - I don't know why.
     
     Good Luck
     Mike Lenaghan
     87 RRs (2)

> Subject: Misc RR Ramblings
> Author:  Bruce Harding <Bruce_Harding@ccm2.hf.intel.com> at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 49 lines)]
> 75 Triumph TR6
> 70 Austin Mini Cooper S

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 10:52:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Tebbin Salvesen <tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us>
Subject: Re: 15" wheels, Rangie top speed

I dont know about 82 rovers but I got a ticket in my 87 for 107 mph!

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 13:18:44 -0500
From: Michael & Krista Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Winch Hydraulic D90

PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 96-03-18 16:20:17 EST, you write:
> >Regarding the over heating issue, I believe Milemarker offers
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> are on , high or low.
> John.

John, 

Usually they are two line going to the reservoir, where the dip stick 
is.  Splicing a cooler into one of these lines could help with cooling 
and increase the capacity of the system.

Just a thought :)

michael
92 RR
-- 
=============================================================  	 
Michael & Krista Kirk => "michaelk@infi.net"
Norfolk, Virginia
=============================================================

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 11:31:37 -0500
Subject: re: Misc RR Ramblings

    Boy does this sound familiar!  The following comments are based on
    experiences with an '87 that's up to about 130,000 miles.

>I've recently converted from a 70 Series IIA LR to a plushmobile.  I just 
>purchased a 88 RR with 80,000 miles from the original owner.  A few
>questions for the masses:

>1) I have all his service records (he always had the LR dealer service it) 
>and noticed that about every 12-14K miles the brake pads were replaced.  
>Every other time the pads were replaced the rotors were also replaced.  Do 
>RR's eat brake pads this fast normally?
  
    My '87 usually gets 30,000 to 40,000 on a set of pads.  I've never
    replaced the rotors, although I'm sure they're overdue by now.  An
    important thing to know about Rover dealers is that thier goal is to do
    everything possible to make/keep the car as perfect as possible.  They
    are always happy to do an incredibly expensive job to stop the most
    minor leak or noise.  Many of the richer owners seem to expect, or at
    least not object to this.  The trick is to discern what service is
    really necessary and what is "nice to have".  The difference can be
    more than a thousand dollars a year.

>2) The fuel tank recall was just performed before I took possession and I 
>also noticed that when I fill the tank up the fuel gauge reads just below 
>the full mark.  I don't know if this was different than before the recall.

>3) There is a beep that occasionally that comes while cornering or going up
>or down a hill.  The original owner had them check it out SEVERAL times.
>They diagnosed the problem as the diff. neutral  switch.  They tried
>several times to adjust the switch but evidently they never fully fixed
>the problem.  Does this sound familiar?  Has anyone disabled the switch?

    My neutral warning switch got to where it was on all the time.
    According to the dealer mechanic, the switch was hard (read expensive)
    to get to so I disabled it.  This involved cutting the appropriate wire
    to the chime box (actually, See the related postings

>4) Before reading the owners manual I put in regular unleaded fuel and 
>within 30 miles the EFI light came on.  I have since ran 2 tanks of premium
>unleaded and would like to reset the EFI light to see if this fixes the
>problem.  Is there an way to reset it without paying the dealer $65 to
>do it?

    The key here is to make friends with your dealer mechanic.  The one I
    work with will do little things like that for me without going through
    the service manager and billing and so on.  He is also a good source of
    how to tips and unoficial info.

>5) How often do the O2 sensors 'really' need to be replaced?  The manual 
>states every 82500 miles but the garage I normally use say they likely 
>don't need to be changed.

    I've never replaced mine and they still seem to work.

>6) Here's a couple that would get the old LR crowd moaning (including 
>myself)... We have the factory sun roof...Is there a moon roof (smoked 
>glass) roof that can be installed?  How about adding in a CD player?

>Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com
>88 RR
57 Triumph TR3
66 Triumph 2000
>75 Triumph TR6
>70 Austin Mini Cooper S

    Alan Pollard
    Colorado Springs

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Mon, 18 Mar 1996 11:27:47 +0000
Subject:       Re: Accessories for Disco

snip

> Adding a canine to the family really necessitates both of the above.

Grin :), Make sure its a Land-Rover approved canine when you add it !

Tomw, its a doggy, dog world!
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Green Monster"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 09:55:39 EST
From: dmccor03@counsel.com (David McCormack -- Hinshaw ^ Culbertson - Brookfield )
Subject: Fabed winch mount

 To:	RRO List, 		Inet 	

Has anyone fabricated their own winch mount for a Discovery? 
Would you be willing to share specs/plans?  I have a good
fabricator but he needs a plan.  I could come up with one myself,
but not being a penguineer, I 'm virtually assured of *not*
getting the strength right.  I can see the mounting points, but
I'd be guessing on what type and thickness of metal to use.  Any
thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Dave McCormack
'95 Discovery   

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:00:30 -0500
Subject: RE: confessional

><<> Bless me fellow Land Rover Owners for I have sinned.  Would the CSO list
>> please hear my confessions?
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>> please hear my confessions?
>> Gerry "Phoenix AZ" Elam

>Yes my son, Go ahead.

This is going to be a difficult thing to say.  You see, my wife's Caravan was
damaged in an accident.  Being the good husband that I am, I told her to pick
any car that she wanted.  She, being of middle-age & approaching her
middle-age crisis, wanted something sporty and safe.  We've looked at Saab's,
Dodge Caravans (Sport version), Mustangs, Volvos, etc.  

We went over to one of the largest dealers in AZ on Sunday.... there's where
the problem lies.  They sell Dodge, Plymouth, Fords and yes...gulp... J$$ps.

She fell in love with a Jeep Grand Cherokee.... red of course.  We weren't
sure what to do.  The LR in me says... no damn way.  The practical side
says...well it does have dual airbags, ABS, side-impact beams and out-plushes
our plushmobile.  What to do?

They asked what it would take to drive it out... she said $500 under verified
invoice.  They talked...begged for a higher price and we held fast.  We
wanted the deal.... They went for it.

So, yes... fellow LR owners, we now have a Discovery and a JGC.  And, it
should make for an interesting long-term comparison.  The JGC isn't half the
off-road vehicle that the Disco is.  In fact, she has told me not to take it
off-road at all.  Now I can see how the JGC beats the Disco when tested by
*car* magazines.  The JGC is very comfortable on the road... the ultimate
grocery getter.  But I’m almost ashamed to be seen in it.  Not one single
Jeep has waved at me either in the 48 hours we’re owned it.

Since she’s out of town this week, the indian reservation below our house is
calling my name.  I know what the Disco will do.  I want to see what the J##p
will do.  I think I know the answer.

Now... what is my penitence?  (And you aren't allowed to flame me until you
admit what your better half drives either!)  Should I afix a bumper sticker
on the J##p?  Something like “my other 4WD is a Land Rover”...... ??????   

Gerry “Phoenix... ‘but it’s a dry heat’  AZ” Elam

Proud LR Discovery owner
Not so proud JGC co-owner

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 12:26:01 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: RE: confessional

Go for it Gerry -- don't feel bad! My wife has a Chevy Astro with so
little off-road ability it can barely get up our driveway, and I don't
feel at all guilty about it!

Actually it should be jolly interesting to see what the Jeep can do off
road -- probably less than the Disco but more than most of us would like
to admit! (I've always been amazed at where even a 2 wheel drive rental
car can take me...) For the vast majority of sport utility buyers, it's
undoubtedly a better package.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

 On Tue, 19 Mar 1996 GElam30092@aol.com wrote:

> ><<> Bless me fellow Land Rover Owners for I have sinned.  Would the CSO =
list
> >> please hear my confessions?
> >>
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>
> This is going to be a difficult thing to say.  You see, my wife's Caravan=
 was
> damaged in an accident.  Being the good husband that I am, I told her to =
pick
> any car that she wanted.  She, being of middle-age & approaching her
> middle-age crisis, wanted something sporty and safe.  We've looked at Saa=
b's,
> Dodge Caravans (Sport version), Mustangs, Volvos, etc. 
>
> We went over to one of the largest dealers in AZ on Sunday.... there's wh=
ere
> the problem lies.  They sell Dodge, Plymouth, Fords and yes...gulp... J$$=
ps.
>
> She fell in love with a Jeep Grand Cherokee.... red of course.  We weren'=
t
> sure what to do.  The LR in me says... no damn way.  The practical side
> says...well it does have dual airbags, ABS, side-impact beams and out-plu=
shes
> our plushmobile.  What to do?
>
> They asked what it would take to drive it out... she said $500 under veri=
fied
> invoice.  They talked...begged for a higher price and we held fast.  We
> wanted the deal.... They went for it.
>
> So, yes... fellow LR owners, we now have a Discovery and a JGC.  And, it
> should make for an interesting long-term comparison.  The JGC isn't half =
the
> off-road vehicle that the Disco is.  In fact, she has told me not to take=
 it
> off-road at all.  Now I can see how the JGC beats the Disco when tested b=
y
> *car* magazines.  The JGC is very comfortable on the road... the ultimate
> grocery getter.  But I=92m almost ashamed to be seen in it.  Not one sing=
le
> Jeep has waved at me either in the 48 hours we=92re owned it.
>
> Since she=92s out of town this week, the indian reservation below our hou=
se is
> calling my name.  I know what the Disco will do.  I want to see what the =
J##p
> will do.  I think I know the answer.
>
> Now... what is my penitence?  (And you aren't allowed to flame me until y=
ou
> admit what your better half drives either!)  Should I afix a bumper stick=
er
> on the J##p?  Something like =93my other 4WD is a Land Rover=94...... ???=
???  
>
> Gerry =93Phoenix... =91but it=92s a dry heat=92  AZ=94 Elam
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Not so proud JGC co-owner
>

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:50:09 -0500
Subject: Land Rover Ralley, 

Alan Pollard wrote:
>>Land Rover rallys in Colorado are usually sponsored by or have lots of
involvment by the Solihull Society, Colorado's premier Land Rover club
(www.du.edu/~tomills/solisoc.html).  The contact person is Greg Chernushin at
(800) 383-5886. He should know.  This is his law office number so say it's
regarding Land Rovers and you will get priority treatment.<<

T.F.Mills wrote:
>>Aug. 8-14 around Crested Butte, CO.  Nordic Inn in Crested Butte will be 
rally HQ.  Call 1-800-383-5886 for more info as it develops.<<

Rob Dennis wrote:
<< BTW, I talked to Greg and he said that the dates were going to be the Aug
8-12th, not 14th. >>

If you call Greg's office, his secretary will send you the info on the rally.
 

If there are any other LR owners interested in going up together in a small
convoy, we'll probably depart the Phoenix area on Aug. 7 and follow a route
through Flagstaff, Tuba City, Kayenta, the Four Corners area and spend the
first night in Durango.   (Durango is a bit out of the way but we have
personal reasons for staying there.)  On the 8th, we make our way to Crested
Butte as quickly as possible. (Durango to Crested Butte: 198 miles)  These
plans are subject to change and adjustments.

So.... drop me a note if you want to join up from Phoenix or somewhere in
route.  

Gerry "Phoenix AZ: looking at 90 degrees this week!" Elam

------------------------------

Date: 19 Mar 96 16:10:26 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re[2]: NH Spring Safari

     Chris Fisher asks

     
 What would you do with a chainsaw off-road anyway?
     
        I wasn't able to attend the safari this time, but I was 
heard that chain saws come in useful for cutting up j..ps that have been 
abandoned on the trail. :)

He He He
  
Chris Browne
95 Disco

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 15:41:42 -0600
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: Gerry's Sins

>Now... what is my penitence?  (And you aren't allowed to flame me until you
>admit what your better half drives either!)  Should I afix a bumper sticker
>on the J##p?  Something like =ECmy other 4WD is a Land Rover=EE...... ?????=
?
>Gerry =ECPhoenix... =EBbut it=EDs a dry heat=ED  AZ=EE Elam
>Proud LR Discovery owner
>Not so proud JGC co-owner

Gerry:

You are forgiven.......But one thing that we have to get straight here!
The bumber sticker that you mentioned above wold be blasphemous!  the
correct one to affix would be "My REAL 4WD is a LAND ROVER"

*laugh*  We're all crazy.....Be _damned_ careful when you're out there with
the grocery-getter......We all know the merits of LR...some of us are not
aware of the limits of other toys....you're disco can traverse a 45 degree
hill.....try that in the Jeep, and you may end up dead (by wife...not by
car)......squishing the 3 day old jeep would be very bad, I think......for
your health...not for your peace-of-mind........*smile*

In reference to John's post........I am sure that the Jeeps are not
incompetent, by any means......but we're all crazy here.......I don't think
that I need to blast out any LR propaganda!!  Y'all can generate enough of
your own......

One more thing.....Gerry, a big hat will hide you face from the public eye
when you're riding in the Jeep!
Just kidding!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

------------------------------

From: "Ruffer, Richard" <rufferr@moodys.com>
Subject: confessional
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 96 16:56:00 EST

Its not so bad, Gerry.  I even had a JGC before I traded it for a Defender 
90.  It was very pleasant on the highway, although I would follow your 
wife's advice on not taking it off road.  If you still feel guilty, a test 
drive in a non-air conditioned Defender in August (in you neck of the woods) 
should cleanse your soul.

Rich I-Saw-The-Light Ruffer

------------------------------

From: "Ron Franklin" <oldhaven@biddeford.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 17:37:00 -0500
Subject: RE: confessional

> She fell in love with a Jeep Grand Cherokee.... red of course.  We weren=

't
> sure what to do.  The LR in me says... no damn way.  The practical side
> says...well it does have dual airbags, ABS, side-impact beams and out-pl=
ushes
> our plushmobile.  What to do?

> So, yes... fellow LR owners, we now have a Discovery and a JGC.  And, it
> should make for an interesting long-term comparison.  The JGC isn't half=
 the
> off-road vehicle that the Disco is.  In fact, she has told me not to tak=
e it
> off-road at all.  Now I can see how the JGC beats the Disco when tested =
by
> *car* magazines.  The JGC is very comfortable on the road... the ultimat=
e
> grocery getter.  But I=C6m almost ashamed to be seen in it.  Not one sin=
gle
> Jeep has waved at me either in the 48 hours we=C6re owned it.

> Gerry =F4Phoenix... =E6but it=C6s a dry heat=C6  AZ=F6 Elam
> Proud LR Discovery owner
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> Proud LR Discovery owner
> Not so proud JGC co-owner
I'm glad Gerry had the courage to come clean.  I've been trying to hide 
this from people for years.  (At least he has a Discovery..My usual
transportation is a beat up Series beast)  I'll bet there are more of us 
lurking on the list who sneak the spouses' SUV for the occasional run to t=
he 
store.  The main thing is I've never had a speck of trouble with the three=
 
Cherokee/JGC's we've owned  in the last ten years, though they aren't even=
 
in the same league as the 88 when it comes to rubbing against trees and ro=
cks in the 
woods. 
 You'll have to excuse me now, as I have to take the JGC to the auto 
parts store to get some Girling fluid so I can bleed my brakes.  (Do you 
ever find yourself hitting a non-existent clutch pedal or trying to slide 
the window forward?)

Confession is good for the soul.

Ron Franklin

Bowdoin, Maine, USA

------------------------------

Date: 19 Mar 96 19:28:33 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re[2]: confessional

     
     Gerry said
     
So, yes... fellow LR owners, we now have a Discovery and a JGC. 

Listen up everybody please don't tell Terriann.                      

Chris BRowne
95 Disco
87 chevy nova (135k miles and acting stranger every day) assembling $$ to 
replace it soon. used RR is a possibility but so is Volvo 850 etc

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 20:32:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Bill Daddis <magnet@io.org>
Subject: Re: 88RR Chirp

On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Chris Haslam wrote:

> Re: Mike Lenaghan's post:
> I too suffered from the neutral switch "chirp". At first, the noise was 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> without the "chime box" being involved. Then it sounded for more than a 
> few milliseconds, so I knew the "box" was involved.
One of the first things I did when I took delivery of my RR in 1993 was 
to take out the whole dam' "box".  I hate those electronic noises.  I 
just disconnected the multi-plug to the box... No ill effects that I 
could detect -- just blessed silence :-)

                                   Cheers,
                                         -- Bill

1959 Rover P4/90      1987 Rover 825i      1993 RR Cty.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Bill Daddis -- Aurora, Ontario, Canada -- magnet@io.org
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: confessional
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 13:22:56 +1030 (CDT)

Gerry "Phoenix AZ" Elam finds that confession is good for the soul and asks:

> Should I afix a bumper sticker on the J##p?  Something like my other 
> 4WD is a Land Rover^T...... ??????  

Well there's always the one that goes on my runabouts, only about an inch 
or 1.5" high and maybe a foot long, its a window sticker though.
it says:

"I'd rather be driving my Landrover <logo>"

I'm sure on the back window of a brand new JGC it would give the right 
message :-)

cheers

daryl

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:35:07 -0500
From: Michael & Krista Kirk <michaelk@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Winch Hydraulic D90

Michael R Fredette wrote:
>         One more little tidbit to put things in perspective. Derrin mentioned
>         going to look at a Camel Trophy truck parked out back of a dealer but
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>         even less prone to stalling in deep water/mud, yet they still feel the
>         electric winches are best for the job. 

snip

You don't think that the winch they select has anything to do with the marketing 
objectives of superwinch.  I'd bet Camel trophy LR's would use a milemarker hydraulic if 
milemarker paid enough !

Michael

92 RR [no winch :(]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:47:04 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Misc RR Ramblings

At 08:27 AM 3/19/96 PST, you wrote:
>I've recently converted from a 70 Series IIA LR to a plushmobile.  I just 
>purchased a 88 RR with 80,000 miles from the original owner.  A few 
>questions for the masses:
>Do RR's eat brake pads this fast normally?  

We bought our 88 RR last fall and have only put 3-4000 miles on it.

>I also noticed that when I fill the tank up the fuel gauge reads just below 
>the full mark.
The sender mounts in the side of the tank and may be adjustable, there was a
thread about this a few days ago.  Mine reads the same when I fill but then
i do not fill mine most of the time since the dealer did not seat the fuel
pump gasket correctly. It leaks!  There I was Saturday with the back end
hanging on a highlift jack and everone commenting on the smell of gas.  Some
day I will get back to the dealer.

>3) There is a beep
I cannot help on this one.

> would like to reset the EFI light to see if this fixes the 
>problem.  Is there an way to reset it without paying the dealer $65 to do 
>it?  
Disconnect the battery for a few minutes to reset the light.

>5) How often do the O2 sensors 'really' need to be replaced?  The manual 
>states every 82500 miles but the garage I normally use say they likely 
>don't need to be changed.
We just replaced one at about 68000 miles and it had been bad for a while.

>Is there a moon roof (smoked 
>glass) roof that can be installed?  How about adding in a CD player?
Maybe from a newer RR.  For CD either replace the factory radio or use a
changer that jumpers your antenna lead for input.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire USA  603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 23:43:38 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: RE: confessional

At 12:26 PM 3/19/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Go for it Gerry -- don't feel bad! My wife has a Chevy Astro with so 
>little off-road ability it can barely get up our driveway, and I don't 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 66 lines)]
>> Proud LR Discovery owner
>> Not so proud JGC co-owner
John

John

You must have one of those 2WD Astros with an open diff.

Even though GM says only 15% of those vans have AWD about 80% of the ones up
here have it.  Our GMC Safari with AWD and the locking diff is a great all
weather family vehicle for wet and snowy NH roads.

My wife says we are going to keep ours after the lease is up.  My plan is to
replace it with a 97 model since the AWD adds stress on the drivetrain that
will cost big $$$ by 50-60000 miles.

Since I sold my VW GTI the Safari is the sports car in our household.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire USA   603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1996 22:53:25 -0800
From: Solihull <fiction1@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Bull Bar for sale

Hi,
I'm selling a Range Rover bull bar with hinged lamp guards.
$195 plus delivery ($25 in U.S.)
Please E-mail if interested.
Thanks.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 17:36:38 +0800
From: Oscar <omont@mnl.mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: '89 rr-looking for elec. socket

The disk brake has somehow eaten the socket leading to the disk pad wear
indicator.  I'm looking for the socket/plug that comes off the harness and
plugs into the other end coming off the disk pad.  Its a round water proof
thingy.  Did ask RN and the only thing they can do is sell me the
harness.....over $100.

Anybody out there have one to spare?  email if you can help.

Thanks.

Oscar
'89 NAS RR
it does go off-road!!!

------------------------------

From: Yrjo.Makinen@picker.fi
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:03:37 +0300
Subject: Re: 15" wheels, Rangie top speed

* Also, what was the rated top-end speed of the 82 Rangie? The Iveco 2.5 TD with
* T- 5 gearbox will be able to give a top speed (has been done before on another
* vehic le) of around 178Km/h (111mph). I have a suspicion that this is over the
* top spee d intended for the vehicle design and maybe dangerous, any ideas?
     
     Rated (optimistic) top speed for a '82 RR was around 160 km/h (100 
     mph). Was the top speed with the Iveco measured or was it obtained 
     from the speedo. To get that kind of speed (178 km/h) w. Rangie, you 
     should have an engine producing about 160 hp. Does the Iveco have that 
     much power?
     
     If shocks, suspension bushes, tyres etc. are OK, about 180 km/h 
     shouldn't be too dangerous. 
     
     Coiled for Spring,
     Yrjo J. Makinen

------------------------------

Date: 20 Mar 96 08:45:53 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Winch Hydraulic D90

     Michael said
      I'd bet Camel trophy LR's would use a milemarker hydraulic if
     milemarker paid enough !
    ****FYI Superwinch does make Hydraulic winches as well as electric
        chris browne

------------------------------

Date: 20 Mar 96 08:59:18 EST
From: <Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: Re[2]: "White spirit"

     
     white spirit=turps=paint thinner!
     Check out your local harware store, B&Q (UK) home depot (USA)etc
     Chris B

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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