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The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest
Send Submissions uk-lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 10:41:08 -0500
From: ag832@freenet.carleton.ca (Grant Wilkinson)
Subject: Shame-JGC
Gerry wrote about his shame at owing a new red JGC. Some others wrote
saying that for on-road use, the JGC may be the better buy.
I would second that. I went from a Nissan Pathfinder to a Disco, and I
would go back in a minute if I could without losing my shirt in the
process. The Pathfinder, no doubt, did not have the legs of the Disco
off-road, but it got me everywhere I wanted to go, and it did it at about
2/3 of the purchase price of the Disco. It did it at almost half the cost
in fuel of the Disco, and it did it all the time. The Disco is in the
shop a couple of times a month for repairs ranging from, admittedly minor
bugs like water leaks, to a new transmission after only 6 months driving.
Don't be ashamed of the JGC, Gerry, from my experience, I wish I had gone
that route.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa, Canada
1995 Discovery - "Lemon"
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 14:11:55 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: RE: NH Spring Safari
We adopt the tread lightly program. We carry chain saws to remove FALLEN tress
from the track. They also came in very useful for cutting discarded telegraph
poles to help fix a broken bridge. We would never go into any woods to chop
down tress !!!
I would recommend that anyone going off-roading in the woods, take at least an
ax. Chain saw will cut much quicker !!! If you have a fallen tree across you
path, and you are on a legal right of way, then you at least have a chance to
continue !!!! instead of turning back.
Mark
----------
From: ChrisF6724@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 1996 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: NH Spring Safari
I was wondering if you follow the Tread Lightly program? Chainsaws and axes
don't meet this criteria.... I assume you're going to go out on government
land (do what you want on private land). Basically, the Tread Lightly
program is the idea that you leave no sign that you where ever there. The
reason behind this is that there are alot of "tree-huggers" & politicans out
there who would very much like to ban all off-road activities (there are also
alot of clubs trying to oppose closures...). Alot of trails have already
been closed thoughout the nation (two of my favorites were shut down last
year) because of the damage done by careless off-roaders... If you tear up
the land, they will take that right away from all of us and future off-road
driving will be done on like it is in Japan, on a private resort where you
will have too pay membership fees... None of us want that, do we? Do your
part and clean-up after yourselves... What would you do with a chainsaw
off-road anyway? I sure hope you're not cutting down trees for a new trail,
or worse is cutting down obstacles placed to keep you off the trail (yes,
I've seen this done too!)
Sorry to rag, and I appologize if you do follow Tread Lightly principles.
If you want more info on the Tread Lightly program, I'd be happy to get you
their phone #
Chris Fisher '73 Land Rover 88 Series III
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From: HalatGRM@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:22:10 -0500
Subject: Where to go?
Can any suggest how I might find out where any public off-roading might be in
my area? I've lived in north/central North Carolina for 7 months, so I don't
know the area too well, and one small detail in fully exploiting a Land
Rover's capabilities is finding a place to drive it that isn't paved :)
Hal
96 Disco
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 16:46:46 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Warn winches for 90/110 RR and Disco
All,
If anyone out there is looking to add a winch to their vehicle. Check out the
warn M8000 winch. Its a low profile winch, recommended by LR. It will fit
Discovery and RR models without the need for a BB. You will have to get a
fitting kit or fabricate one. A local 4X4 shop here in NH quoted me $125 to
make a mount for it and fit it.
4 Wheel parts wholesalers sellers them for the great price of $565.00
delivered !!!! They told me they have about 10 left and are selling them off.
The kit comes with control box, fairlead, remote control. They can be reached
on 1-800-421-1050, be prepared to wait to get through.
Mark
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From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 12:00:03 EST
Subject: Range Rover fuel leak
Jeff,
I read your response to Bruce Harding's questions re his 88RR. I have
just got into the office after taking my 87RR back to the dealers a
week after its new fuel tank was installed - I also had a fuel leak
but it only occured when the tank was full. The fuel was leaking out
around the rubber seals where the wiring goes inside the pump. It cost
me a new pump + installation ($565 ouch).
The technician said that many of these older RRs have problems with
leaking pumps (due to rust) after they are disturbed. He has even had
some fall apart when they were removed from the old tank!
I'll keep my fingers crossed that yours is just the gasket. Hope I
don't turn out to be a jinx on you.
I had to replace the pump on my other RR years ago - again because of
a leak at the top of the pump.
Regards
Mike Lenaghan
87 RRs (2)
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 17:13:34 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: Winching in safety book
All,
Those looking into winching with their vehicles, should check out a LR book on
winching. Book is titled Winching in safety. It got mine from LRO book store.
Cost about $14.00. The book covers do's and don'ts of winching plus gives a
run down of every winch LR recommends for its vehicles, with corresponding
P/N's and fitting kits.
That's how I found out about the Warn M8000 winch.
Mark
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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:08:50 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: Where to go?
> Can any suggest how I might find out where any public off-roading might be in
> my area? I've lived in north/central North Carolina for 7 months, so I don't
> know the area too well, and one small detail in fully exploiting a Land
> Rover's capabilities is finding a place to drive it that isn't paved :)
-
The state forests in your area, near TN, have trails that are open to
4WD. A couple are rugged enough that it's advised that you don't
travel as lone vehicle.
Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu
Four wheel drive allows you to get
stuck in places even more inaccessible.
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 10:08:25 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Range Rover fuel leak
When I had the recall work done I got them to renew the fuel pump (I had
to pay for the part but the labor was free). The dealer said they are
expected to last about 100K miles -- which is what mine had done, and I
was beginning to hear noise from it. Might be a good idea to do the same
for any of you folks who haven't had the recall stuff done yet???
Cheers
John Brabyn
89RR
On Wed, 20 Mar 1996 lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com wrote:
> Jeff,
> I read your response to Bruce Harding's questions re his 88RR. I have
[ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> Mike Lenaghan
> 87 RRs (2)
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:46:28 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Re: where to go?
>> Can any suggest how I might find out where any public off-roading might be in
> my area? I've lived in north/central North Carolina for 7 months, so I don't
>> know the area too well, and one small detail in fully exploiting a Land
>> Rover's capabilities is finding a place to drive it that isn't paved :)
->>
Tom Rowe replies:
>The state forests in your area, near TN, have trails that are open to
>4WD. A couple are rugged enough that it's advised that you don't
>travel as lone vehicle.
Are there any state-by-state guides to off-road trails?
Shaun Carrigan
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 10:50:55 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Warn winches for 90/110 RR and Disco
On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Mark Talbot wrote:
(snip)
> If anyone out there is looking to add a winch to their vehicle. Check out the
> warn M8000 winch. Its a low profile winch, recommended by LR.
> ...... 4 Wheel parts wholesalers sellers them for the great price of
> $565.00
Dear Mark:
I believe that the M8000 is the winch that LRNA used for '94 D90 winch
accessory option. It is certainly "low profile" and can be mounted
under/behind the front bumper with the fairlead just below the bumper
(just like the D90's in the '94 LR advertisements). The winch is out of
the way in this position. Though not quite as accessable as an
on-top-of-the-bumper mount, I've found that it is fine for the
occasional job. [Those doing a lot of winching might prefer the on-top
mounting.] [With the under/behind bumper mount, there's not much room
for uneven spooling of cable.]
$565 sounds like a good price. My option was about $1800 (included
mounting bracket, etc. and the Warn winch accessory package) - and I'm
still making payments.............
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:51:13 -0700 (MST)
From: Dan McDonough <mcdan@Rt66.com>
Subject: Re: confessional
On Tue, 19 Mar 1996, Ruffer, Richard wrote:
> Its not so bad, Gerry. I even had a JGC before I traded it for a Defender
> 90. It was very pleasant on the highway, although I would follow your
[ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> should cleanse your soul.
> Rich I-Saw-The-Light Ruffer
Similar thing here, traded my convertible in for a D-90 (I always have
owned a rag-top, and always will). I liked it so much that I convinced
my wife that we had to trade in the Explorer for a D-90 SW. After the
smoke clears, I'm going to see if I can convice her that she has to have
a Disco or used RR :-)
BTW, My Land Rover feaver is approaching 110! (maybe in '98)
Daniel McDonough
mcdan@rt66.com
95 D-90 (Green)
95 D-90 SW (Blue)
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From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 13:58:35 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Range Rover fuel leak
I don't want to belabour the point but I think age of the vehicle
could be as important as mileage. The damage to mine looked like it
was due to corrosion but the vehicle itself has only 47K miles. I
would imagine that the same corrosive materials that are causing the
tanks to rot (road salt etc) are also trapped around the pump housing.
So I guess the message is to have the dealer examine the pump and make
a prognosis based on its condition.
The earlier RRs (87 and 88) have to have the tank removed to get to
the pump, later models (did it start with the 89s?) have an access
panel through the rear floor so this is not such a big issue for them.
(Kevin Kelly - you can add this to your doc on Range Rovers!).
Regards
Mike Lenaghan
> Subject: Re: Range Rover fuel leak
> Author: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org> at inetmail
[ truncated by lro-digester (was 47 lines)]
> > 87 RRs (2)
> >
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 96 19:25:08 UT
From: "Mark Talbot" <Land_Rover@msn.com>
Subject: NH Sping safari .. Repost
All,
I have been asked to re-post, here it is.
I have had over a dozen requests to run another NH Safari. After the great
time most of us had this past Saturday, I thought why not. BTW we had 13
vehicles show up, all models, yes even 5 plushies !!! Those that want the
details can read the report posted yesterday.
Spring will truly be here at the end of April, so I'm planning the next run
for
Saturday 27th April 1996.
We will leave Keene NH at 10AM SHARP !!!!!! The meeting point will be the same
place, Dunkin Donuts just off the intersection with Route 10 and Route 101.
This will give everyone a good chance to get food, coffee etc. BEFORE we start
off.
Logistics.
This time instead of snow it will probably be MUD. How much will depend on how
much more snow we get, and how quickly the ground has thawed out. But come
prepared for mud.
Tools:
Tow Ropes, CB's, Hi-lift jacks, Winches, come-a-longs. Chain saws or axes.
Bring dry socks, and maybe another pair of boots. Certainly bring a change of
clothes.
Hotel accommodations are available at the Days Inn or the Best Western in
Keene. If you want me to make reservations for you e-mail me. My wife is a
travel agent in town ! or you can just call yourself. A night's stay is about
$40-$50.
We will tailgate lunch out in the woods, so pre-pack a lunch BEFORE we start
!!!
We will stop in the evening for a Bar-B-Q at my house, bring your own beer
etc.
Those that may have Discoveries or Range Rovers that want to come, REMOVE your
front spoilers. If we get mud, you will dig them into the ground and probably
end up carry them home in the back !!!
We will probably encounter water, how deep again will depend on the thaw. If
you have a wading plug put it in. If you don't have a wading plug then order
one. With all the mud the drain hole could get blocked.
Interestingly, out of the all the request I had for this past weekends trip, 7
owners were not on the Internet. So tell your friends.
I look forward to another great day in the woods.
MARK
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 11:32:13 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Warn winches for 90/110 RR and Disco
Another even lower cost option is the equivalent Ramsey winch which is
often on sale for $400 at such places as Leon Rosser Jeep where I got
mine. (the REP 8000 model). It also uses less juice.
Cheers
John Brabyn
89RR
On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, David Rosenbaum wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 1996, Mark Talbot wrote:
> (snip)
[ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)]
> mounting bracket, etc. and the Warn winch accessory package) - and I'm
> still making payments.............
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From: Steve Willey-pc <steve.willey-pc@attws.com>
Subject: Re: brake squishiness/ABS brake repairs?
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 12:00:52 -0800
Upon investigation I have no apparent brake fluid leaks. The leak by the
RF wheel was indeed from swivel assembly (not the swivel seal this time).
The squishiness continues and the earliest LR of Seattle can see it will be
next week. That's kinda awhile to be without my car, as I'm uncomfortable
driving it in it's current squishy state.
Any Thoughts?
Cheers,
Steve
Steve Willey-pc wrote:
>Recently I have noted an uncomfortable squishiness in the brake pedal
>of my '90 NAS RR. The squish has moved from "hmmm, does that feel
>different? Nah." to "That definitely feels different." over the course of
a
>month.
>There is also seapage from inside the LF wheel. Initially I assumed it was
>different? Nah." to "That definitely feels different." over the course of
>oil from the swivel joint (I've been through a few swivel joint seals), but
>now I
[ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
>Any advise welcome.
>Cheers,
>Steve
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From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 15:44:47 -0500
Subject: Range Rover Rattles
>After being driven crazy by a constantly increasing rattle in the back
>end of my D90.
All the talk about rattles reminded to post about some rattles I just tracked
down in the Range Rover. After taking apart the back door three times and
adjusting the latch about 30 times I found that the rattle was coming from
the shaft that connects the power door lock actuator to the lock mechanism.
This shaft was hitting the inside of the door and making a lot of noise
(don't you all love this list, think of what would have happened to me if I
posted that the power door lock actuator shaft on my Range Rover was rattling
to the LRO list) I first put washers under the actuator so it sat farther
away from the inside of the door, but it still rattled, so I got a four inch
piece of vacuum hose, cut it open and zip tied it on to the shaft. With the
rubber over the shaft it does not make noise anymore.
>On my '94 D90 the lower seat belt mounts rattle (not the inertial reel
>mount, the other one), and I don't think any thing can be done about it.
>The mount is designed to allow the belt to rotate and the design has a
>lot of slop built in.
The back seat belts in the Range Rover were making some noise, I took the
bolts out and wrapped them with vinyl tape to the belts fit tight. They will
still rotate but they don't rattle. I have done this on many cars, it should
work on the D90.
Kevin Kelly
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 15:52:08 -0500
From: Sanjay Prasad <Prasad@ba-iplaw.com>
Subject: Re: Range Rover fuel leak -Reply
I had something similar done, although in my case the dealer replaced the
fuel pump on its own initiative and charged it to Land Rover. Not a bad
deal. As a consequence, I really don't care all that much about the minor
fuel gauge inaccuracy.
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 15:55:34 -0500
From: Sanjay Prasad <Prasad@ba-iplaw.com>
Subject: Re: Range Rover fuel leak -Reply
I had something similar done, although in my case, the dealer replaced
the fuel pump on its own initiative and billed the cost to Land Rover. Not
a bad deal. As a result, the minor inaccuracy with my fuel gauge doesn't
really bother me that much. My RR has 82k on it and the fuel pump was
supposedly badly rusted, but seemed to work fine.
Sanjay Prasad
'90 RR
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From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 20:43:06 -0500
Subject: test...no content
test...no content.
Haven't received any RRO email, wondering if it's borked doungt.
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From: rruffer@interserv.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 18:07:07 -0800
Subject: Off-Road Trails
Shaun Carrigan asks:
"Are there any state-by-state guides to off-road trails?"
I have not seen any covering the northeast, and boy have I looked. The problem
with having a Land Rover in NJ is that there aren't many places to go off-road.
:-( I have seen a book on off-road trails located on Bureau of Land Management
land in the western states. I saw the book at a Borders Book Store here in NJ
(if you have them where you live). I believe the book was published by the
Bureau of Land Management, although it did not appear to be a "government
publication." It was in the travel section.
Rich Ruffer
Morristown, NJ
rruffer@interserv.com
rufferr@moodys.com
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From: PremierLe@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 18:06:49 -0500
rtant and IMHO, the disqualifying aspect
>of the Mile Marker hydraulic winches. Your engine MUST be running in order
>for it to work. If you stall in deep water, or steep inclines, (not a
problem
>with EFI generally, but a big one with a carb engine) you are now sans
>winch. An electric winch doesn't care whether the engine runs or not.
>I've only had to winch a total of four trucks at
>one time, it got pretty warm all right, but not enough to hurt anything.
>FYI Superwinch (as well as Koenig) make hydraulic winches. I'm
>surprised at the hydraulic weighing significantly less than a
>comparable electric. I would wonder about the ruggedness of the
>construction.
Several good points were rased in response to my post about the MileMarker
hydraulic winch which I would like to address. First, if you stall in deep
water your electric winch is not going to work if it is underwater, unless it
is water proof. Waren is not. Your winch sets much lower than your air
intake, and here in Florida I have many times had water up to my headlights.
If you are not stalled the hydraulic winch will still work.
Stalled on a steep incline with a carb vehicle is a problem. However, a small
electric motor could be mounted to drive the power steering pump, after
slipping off the fan belt. It would draw much less amperage than an electric
winch. This would also work if stalled in deep water, as long as the motor
was out of the water. This might be a pain to switch to, but how often do you
stall out due to a steep angle and have to winch out?
The construction looks to me to be stronger than a Waren. The weight savings
comes from not having that heavy electric motor and additional gears that and
electric must have. They do not leak and are simple to install. Basically,
instead of two wires, you have two hoses which go to control valve mounted
the fender well in the engin compartment. The power steering hoses are
replaced with the higher quality ones supplied with the unit. If you want a
cooler it is mounted in the low pressure return to the power steering sump.
The capacity of the D90 power steering pump is a problem! And one I was not
aware of. My installation is going to be on a Chevy Z71 PU until I can get a
D90. It sounds from the other two posts that maybe it is a good idea to
upgrade it anyway.
My interest is having a winch to pull very heavy loads in deep mud like we
have here. The load factor in pulling a vehicle out of a hole and one stuck
up to the headlights in black goo are considerably different. I also plan to
use it on my ranch in Montana where the beaver have fell a lot of big trees
into creeks.
I am not trying to sell their winch, but wanted to point out what I feel is a
very good idea,
especially where the weight up front is concerned. I might add, my Z71 is
already set up with a duel battery and marine isolator switch and 4 GA
welding cables. I was all set to get a Waren 10K until I read an article in 4
Wheeler and decided to investigate. So have fun, I I hope to see you on the
trail!
Darrell
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 21:23:21 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Winch Hydraulic D90 & RR Steering
At 04:55 PM 3/18/96 EST, you wrote:
> Another thing that the guy at Mile Marker told me was that Toyota
>owners usualy put in a Saginaw PS pump. It's a must anyway when
[ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>or snow is?
>Rob
>94 D90
Rob
I remembered the RR that could not turn its wheels and after a while I
remembered why, because it was me and my RR!
Thanks for the help, but that is part of the trip. Your D90 and the Discos
certainly made that road look effortless compared to the work the rest of us
had to do.
About the steering... the steering wheel would not move, not even any play
in the wheel. This is what I recall...after high lifting the rear onto firm
ground I was told to straighten the wheels before backing the front onto
firmer ground. After trying to I just backed out with the wheels as they
were and then steering was fine.
What I think was happening was that with the rear on firm ground and higher
then the front, weight was shifted off the front diff case (I was stuck in
deep ruts) onto the steering linkage. With some of the weight of my RR
resting on the steering linkage I do not think a biger power steering pump
would of helped much.
Do I make sense here? Has this happened to any others?
Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport New Hampshire USA 603-863-7883
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From: DavidP30@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 1996 23:11:21 -0500
Subject: Re: No Joke!!
Dear: Clayton Kirkwood.
ER!, should I say Jirkwood!
Begin excerpt from kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com
>TeriAnn, or should I say *David*,
>I figured you out. You are just trying to get us going with these
>comments. You know that it *does* matter what kind of truck it >is.
>You're just trying to getyy back on our good side. Well, good
>luck!!!!!
>:>) Ha ha ha
End excerpt from kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com
Excuse ME!! But My name *IS* David, NOT Teriann!! and I do not appreciate
the inmature posting!!!!!
I fully understand the origin and the jovality of my first posting concerning
the *CLICKER* but! if you cannot post without producing bytes of SH*T, maybe
you should be sent to bed with out your rover.
Thanks to those all that posted informativatly!!
David 93RR ( No Clicker Yet!! )
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From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 1996 07:41:35 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: hydraulic winches
Darrel writes:
snip
> I am not trying to sell their winch, but wanted to point out what I feel is a
very good idea,
especially where the weight up front is concerned. I might add, my Z71 is
already set up with a duel battery and marine isolator switch and 4 GA
welding cables. I was all set to get a Waren 10K until I read an article in 4
Wheeler and decided to investigate. So have fun, I I hope to see you on the
trail!
> I am not trying to sell their winch, but wanted to point out what I feel is a
First, one small point. The electric winch I think you're talking
about is Warn, not Waren.
As for type of use, I'd say that maybe hydraulic *would* be best in
your case. I still wonder, though, about using the power steering pump
for anything more than ocasional use. If it were me, I'd install a
dedicated hydraulic pump. Which it sounds, from reading the posts,
would be cheaper than all the gyrations needed to use a properly
rated PS pump on the Defender anyway.
Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu
Four wheel drive allows you to get
stuck in places even more inaccessible.
------------------------------
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