The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 09:54:51 EST
Subject: Re: Disadvantages of Pre-1990 Range Rovers?

     John,
     
     I own 2 87 Range Rovers. My original has been very reliable and has 
     116K miles on it. I bought the second one with only 42K miles last 
     October and didn't hesitate on buying it. I guess that means that I am 
     more than satisfied with the older NAS spec RRs from a reliability 
     viewpoint. I have pointed out some things to look out for on older 
     RRs, I'm sure many of these are applicable to 90s also.
     
     I must admit I would like more power and am dreaming about putting in 
     a more powerful engine when one of these dies, although I hope that 
     won't be for a few years yet!
     
     Look out for:
     
     - rust on the floor (Front both sides, drivers side the worst)
     
     - rusty angle brackets where the outside front fenders are bolted to 
     the inner fenders - this area was redesigned on the 90s and shouldn't 
     be such a big problem
     
     - rust on the rear floor (luggage area).
     
     - rusty upper tailgate.
     
     On the mechanical side look out for:
     
     - leaky power steering box (a new one costs about $900)
     - leaky power steering pump
     - ignition wires deteriorate and may need replacing
     - all suspension bushings and shock absorbers may need replacing - 
     check brake pad and rotor wear
     - check for leaky heater matrix core (again I think this was improved 
     on later models)
     
     - expect to find minor leaks from engine gaskets etc
     
     On the electrical side look out for:
     
     - switches for electric seats (dirt gets in them and they stop 
     working.
     - there have been a number of postings about faulty solenoids on the 
     heater/recirc flap
     
     The above list may sound onerous, but it really isn't too bad - the 
     biggies are the rust, and the power steering problems. I would just 
     assume that you will have to do all the other things (if they haven't 
     already been done).
     
     Insist on seeing maintenance records. The V8 engine is prone to 
     sludging up if the oil is not changed regularly. Apparently this can 
     lead to expensive engine repairs. If records aren't available be 
     suspicious.
     
     Regards
     Mike Lenaghan
     

> Subject: Disadvantages of Pre-1990 Range Rovers?
> Author:  "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net> at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)]
> viscous coupling, but in terms of (1) reliability and (2) performance (in 
> that order of importance to me) what is the real difference? 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:42:56 -0300 (BST)
From: hugh.davies@rnb.com (Hugh J.E. Davies)
Subject: 89 RR poor cold starting.

My '89 RR Vogue EFi Auto has started to be a pig to start when cold. (Need
I say it's a 3.5 petrol?) It always idled badly from cold, and has to be
kept going on the throttle for about 5 minutes (why *have* they stopped
fitting manual chokes?) until the engine management realises that it's
cold and keeps the revs up so it will keep going ... (I've debated fitting
a hand throttle to keep it going when cold. I *have* fitted an engine
preheater which solves the problem of cold starts at home...)

But now it has developed a new trick - when cold, if you attempt to
accelerate away (at a junction, for example) it just dies. You can keep
it going by "tickling" the throttle but it's a pain in the ass, and it
died on my wife in the middle of a roundabout last week, so it's *got*
to be fixed. When it does pick up after one of these little incidents,
it blows huge clouds of smoke, so it's running way too rich. If it had
SU carburettors, I'd think that the dashpots needed oil putting in
them, but it has poxy Lucas fuel injection. In the 3 years I've had
it, it's had new ignition pickup, amplifier, engine management, dizzy
cap, plug leads and cold start injector, so I guess all the jokes about
Lucas are true.

So, anyone have any suggestions? (All this behaviour goes away once
it's warmed up, BTW). We're off on our annual 2 weeks trip to the
Scottish West coast and Shetlands, so I want it running properly.

Regards,

Hugh.
-----
Hugh J.E. Davies, AVP Unix Support,
Republic National Bank, 30 Monument Street, London.
This is *NOT* an official publication of RNB.
Personal email to huge@axalotl.demon.co.uk, please.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:23:13 -0500
From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN)
Subject: new rubber...help

         CSOers,

            I find myself in need of new tires. Mine have
         gotten 'choppy', mostly on the inside edge for some
         reason. Could be related to the fact that I need
         new rotors and pads (see previous post). I'm
         currently running Michelin XM+S 244 in 205 R 16. I
         haven't called the usual suppliers (Tire Rack,
         etc.) yet but I don't see that particular tire
         listed in any of the mag. ads. My question is does
         RR driver have a favorite or one you would stay
         away from? Also has anyone had the choppy tire
         problem?

                                TIA,
                                Rick
                                90 RR

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 11:00:43 EST
Subject: Re: 89 RR poor cold starting.

     Hugh,
     
     your problem sounds like its the water temp sensor. Its located behind 
     and a little to the right of the thermostat housing. If it registers 
     too cold the ECU keeps the injectors open longer resulting in too much 
     fuel being pumped into the engine - this results in hard starting 
     (mine wouldn't start at all, it flooded too quickly) and rich running 
     until the ECU is told the water has reached normal operating temp.
     
     The sensor is not too expensive compared to the other things you've 
     changed and is easy to replace.
     
     Regards
     Mike Lenaghan

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: shackle ratings
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 9:25:51 MST

Tom Rowe requests:

: Jeff,
: How 'bout forwarding that mesage to the list. I forgot to.
: Thanks.
: 
: Tom Rowe
: UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
: Madison,WI, USA
: 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

Sure, no problem. Here it is:

: Jeff Gauvin writes:
: 
: : Anyway, a set of these tow-bar mounts would probably provide a handy
: : place to connect shackles
: : 
: I would think not. At least in my experience, the point used to 
: connect a recovery strap or the bitter end of a winch cable will have 
: more strain placed on it than a mere towbar would.
: 
: :, assuming your bumper is strong enough.
: I'm pretty confident that it would need reinforcing.

OK, I'm willing to admit that it was a bad idea -- but I'm full of 'em,
so I'll probably post more of 'em over time.  Just turn on your "bad
idea filter" when you see a message from me.  OTOH I've seen plenty of
bad ideas in action and the consequences (I won't embarass myself unless
you all insist), so I try to do some filtering before I post.  Guess
that one got by.

--
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 09:44:15 -0700
From: marbourg@lanl.gov (Douglas C. Marbourg)
Subject: Re: 89 RR poor cold starting.

>My '89 RR Vogue EFi Auto has started to be a pig to start when cold. (Need

Hugh, 

I'm by no means an expert, but it sounds to me like it could be a head
gasket problem.  I had the same problem with other non-RR engines (a V6 &
V8).  Very rough idle when cold and lots of white "smoke", but when the
engine warmed up, the problem wasn't as noticable.  It also took very little
water/coolant from the radiator. So it was months before the problem was
properly diagnosed.
Happy Trails,

Doug Marbourg, 94' NAS D90 #1123
marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

From: "Tom Rowe" <trowe@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:47:58 GMT -0600
Subject: Re: shackle ratings

Jeff Gauvin writes:

>OK, I'm willing to admit that it was a bad idea -- but I'm full of 'em,
so I'll probably post more of 'em over time.  Just turn on your "bad
idea filter" when you see a message from me.  OTOH I've seen plenty of
bad ideas in action and the consequences (I won't embarass myself unless
you all insist), so I try to do some filtering before I post.  Guess
>that one got by.

I wouldn't worry. Bad ideas is what makes America great.
Remember my post that Dixon so thoughtfully reposted about the 
rope/driveline winch?

Tom Rowe
UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research    
Madison,WI, USA
608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578        
trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu                

 Four wheel drive allows you to get
 stuck in places even more inaccessible.

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:01:27 -0500
Subject: K&N Air Filters

>I do confess to not having investigated replacing the existing filter on my
>Disco with a K&N.  I will do so at the first opportunity.  Who is selling
them
>and what is the stock number? 

I don't want to get flamed by all the people who love K&N filters, but I
thought I would share some of my experience.

When I was in high school I spent some time racing at the drag strip and I
found out that replacing the air filter on many cars would give more power.
 Most of the high performance American cars of the late 60's had highly
restrictive air filters and big four barrel carburetors on top of big V8's.
 The difference today is that all modern fuel injected engines have airflow
meters that regulate the airflow to the engine so the K&N filter will not
make any difference in flow (they are good FILTERS).

Last summer I went up to the Sears Point raceway drag strip with some friends
to see if any of the bolt on stuff would make any difference in the quarter
mile et's.  We had two BMW's (an E30 and E36 M3) and a Miata.  We did not
notice any significant statistical improvement between runs with and without
the K&N filter in the E30 M3 and the Miata.  The results from the quarter
mile runs were the same as the 30-70mph 2nd gear acceleration tests we did
where we did not notice any improvement with the K&N filter.  We did notice a
small improvement in the E36 M3 with the Euro model airbox and ram air
snorkel. (We also tested a couple Dinan engine performance chips)

Before I buy anything I always think to myself "If Land Rover could get more
power and better mileage from something for less than a $100 wouldn't they do
it?"

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 09:35:09 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Care

Any non-clear coated paint will rub off slightly with or without compound
abrasives. LR must be one of the last manufacturers on earth (O.K., in non
ex-soviet block countries) to not clear coat premium vehicles! (note: Beluga
black IS clear coated, hence the extra $300 charge).

Gotta love 'em, gotta wonder about 'em too! ('em=LR)

- Paul.

94 NAS Disco V8i non-clear-coated RED

At 11:47 AM 4/1/96 -0700, Douglas C. Marbourg wrote:
>Well, I'm the proud owner of a new ding in my D90...Swung left in reverse,
>looked right, left front hit a dead Pinon tree branch...Result, small crease
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)]
>Doug Marbourg: Santa Fe NM, 94' NAS D90
>marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

From: apollard@arinc.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:11:52 -0500
Subject: new rubber...help

>        CSOers,
>           I find myself in need of new tires. Mine have
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>                               Rick
>                               90 RR

    My '87 RR had unevenly worn and cupped front tires when I bought it at
    45K miles but once I replaced them I never had another problem, even
    when my suspension bushings needed replacement.  My dealer mechanic says
    it's because I use it off road regularly and the PO never did.  In his
    experience, tire wear problems usually occur on vehicles that are
    not off-roaded regularly.  Now 'fess up: have you been neglecting your
    off-roading?

    The XM+S 244s are apparently out of production.  I don't have any
    recommendations although I have heard the Michelin replacements
    bad-mouthed for being too wide and not as good off road.  Apparently
    they're more like the ones that come with the Disco.

    Alan Pollard
    Colorado Springs
    '87 RR

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Care
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 10:52:14 MST

Paul Orland says:

> Any non-clear coated paint will rub off slightly with or without compound
> abrasives. LR must be one of the last manufacturers on earth (O.K., in non
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> - Paul.
> 94 NAS Disco V8i non-clear-coated RED

OTOH - LR paint is thickly applied, so scratches can buffed out time
after time; try that with a clear coat!

--
Jeff "Careful! You'll scratch the paint!" Gauvin
'94 D90, Beluga Black

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:31:41 -0700
From: marbourg@lanl.gov (Douglas C. Marbourg)
Subject: Re: Paint Care

Uh, Jeff, yurz is clear-coated.

>OTOH - LR paint is thickly applied, so scratches can buffed out time
>after time; try that with a clear coat!
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>Jeff "Careful! You'll scratch the paint!" Gauvin
>'94 D90, Beluga Black
Happy Trails,

Doug Marbourg, 94' NAS D90 #1123
marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

From: PZavaletta@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:43:49 -0500
Subject: Re: Disadvantages of Pre-1990 Range Rovers?

>>I'm shopping for a Range Rover again, being (cross fingers) very close to
selling my Series IIA Land Rover.  Since I need to buy a RR for what I
receive for my LR, I'm limited to a 1987-1989 model.  I have heard from
several people that the 1990-1991 and later RR's are much better than the
1987-1989's.  Could folks on the list who own RR's comment on this?  I
understand the later models had the 3.9 engine, antilock brakes, and the
viscous coupling, but in terms of (1) reliability and (2) performance (in
that order of importance to me) what is the real difference?<<

I am not entirely sure why myself, but I remember when I bought my '95 
County and before it my '94 Discovery, one of my BIG concerns was the 
reputed lack of reliability of these vehicles. The sales manager (Gunn, 
San Antonio) conceded that post-1992 year model vehicles were much more 
reliable than pre-1992 ones. 

My Classic is near perfect. . . (broken cupholder, replaced under 
warranty the exception) after 18k miles in 9 months. 

Regards, 

Peter M. Zavaletta 
'95 Range Rover County Classic in Alpine White (aka 'Winston')

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Care
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 11:52:29 MST

Douglas C. Marbour says:
> Uh, Jeff, yurz is clear-coated.
> >OTOH - LR paint is thickly applied, so scratches can buffed out time
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
> >Jeff "Careful! You'll scratch the paint!" Gauvin
> >'94 D90, Beluga Black

Yes, I know -- that's the reason for my "Careful!..." comment; mine
isn't very scratch tolerant.

I was just trying to point out the positive aspect of the 3rd world
paint job on Land Rovers (implication of previous poster).

Beluga Black wasn't my first choice (I wanted white), but the price
was right and it's damn pretty when clean and shiny...

--
Jeff Gauvin
'94 D90

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:04:06 -0500
From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith)
Subject: Off Road Day and DownEast

>Dear All,
>        I've had a lot of calls and emails about the dates for the Off Road
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
>        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

From: Mike Smith
East Coast Rover Co.                    207.594.8086
21 Tolman Road  *Rt. 90*                207.594.8120 fax
Warren, Maine 04864                     ecrover@midcoast.com
    Land Rover Service, Sales, Restoration, and More
        Series Coil Chassis Specialists

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 14:16:04 EST
From: rdl@NomuraNY.COM (Rob Legerio)
Subject: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler

Just picked up the May issue of Four Wheeler. There are 2
LR related articles as well as some other stuff.

First one's a long term update of the Disco. They liked it.
One staffer liked it so much he bought it.

The second one's on a 5L stroker hop up for the 3.9L V8.
This is good news. As LRs become popular we should see
more and more stuff for the Buick based engine. This should
help bring prices down out of the outrageous zone.

A 94 D90 owned by Don Mausseau of Elizabeth CA, is 96 Top Truck
Challenge finalist #49. Pick up a copy of the mag and send in
your votes!  It'll be great to see how the slightly modified
(OME, ARB lockers & bumper) LR fares againt the other highly
modified machines.  Don, are you on the list ?

Also in the issue is a quick blurb about the Black Rhino
mauling the NAS D90 while shooting the LR add. It's by
none other than Jeff Allen.  The BF Goodrich add has a
neat picture of the current NAS D90 hardtop.

It's the British Invasion all over again!

Rob

=============================================================================
  _________  |        Robert D. Leggiero                    rdl@NomuraNY.Com
 |     | \ \ |        Nomura Securities International       (212) 667-1958
#|_____|__\]\|____    Two World Financial Center, 20th Fl.
#|"___ |-   | ___ |   New York, N.Y.  10281-1198
[|/ - \|____|/ - \|]
  ( o ) ---- ( o )    1994 Defender 90 (AA Yellow, #1894)
=============================================================================
 

------------------------------

From: HalatGRM@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:35:54 -0500
Subject: K&N

Regarding recent posts about K&N filters and replacing the Disco airbox:

I looked at the Porsche 944 Turbo filter, and was not at all satisfied with
the seal around the lid of the Discovery's airbox.  I know some people have
used this filter, but I'm still not convinced it won't leak around the edges.

I have a K&N filter on my Acura that I have tried on my Disco.  It's a
conical filter secured with a hoseclamp.  I can unsnap the air tube going
into the back of the Disco's airbox, slide the filter onto the hose, tighten
the hoseclamp, and lay the thing alongside the airbox.  It takes about 60
seconds to install or restore, so it's not too much hassle to switch it back
to go offroading.  As a side note, there's a sensor plugged into the airbox
(may be an OBDII thing, mine's a 96), so I wouldn't know what to do with it
if I removed the box.

It does not significantly increase engine noise, but I haven't tried it for
any length of time to see if mileage is affected.  I have to believe that the
stock airbox plays some part in restricting the engine, as the little "horn"
coming out of the front is awful small for a 4 liter engine.

I'm taking the car to the coast this weekend.  I'll try it and report if
there's any effect on my fuel consumption.

Hal Hunnicutt
'96 Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 13:36:03 -0600
From: William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  Disadvantages of Pre-1990 Range Rovers? -Reply

The 87-88's have the 3.5L engine and manual locking center diff.  The
89 has the 3.9L and a viscous coupling unit.  The 89 also has updated
interior, heated windshield, and the tailgate is included in the central
locking system.  I think the 89 might also have some cooling/heating
improvements.  The 90 had anti lock brakes.  I know several people with
high mile 88's who love them, although I would prefer an 89 for the extra
power.
As for reliability, I can't really say.  Older usually means more trouble,
but newer had more complex gadgets to break.  Simpler can be better
(and cheaper).
Good luck.  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 14:06:22 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

Welp, 

It finally had to happen. Speeding home from work, I spotted a fully
decked out RR on the other side of the highway. Before I could blink
an eye, the driver had his hand up giving me the first wave I've ever
received! (I'm sure my bright AA Yellow D90 was hard to spot, but it
was a wave, just the same). Smiling, I returned the friendly gesture
and continued on my merry-rover-way. 
- a wave virgin no more!

Which leads me to my not-so-merry questions. I haven't had time to
investigate this yet, but wonder if other have:
My brake pedal seems to have about 1.5" of play to the left and right
(ie, it jiggles back and forth). anyone else have this "side-to-side"
jiggle problem? It works fine, and is up to par as far as braking,
but the wiggle has me concerned (obviously not enough to take a look
at it yet, though... still waiting for a 45+ degree day - I know, I'm
a wuss.)

Also, I'm wondering how other D90's storage/glove box/whatever is
holding up. Not that I keep valuables in there, but the locking
mechanism has fallen into the plastic housing on the under side. I
took it apart, saw that the screws had ripped through, and realized
that I now have a handy hole where the key insert once was. Anyone
else run into this?

Lastly, I know washing is against rover etiquette, but I took the D90
through a "touchless" wash the other day.  When I got out, I was
laughing
harder
than
the
people
that
saw
the
high-pressure
spray
guns
push
aside
the
foam/rubber
soft
top
door
inserts
and
give
me
a
good
spray!
Good
thing
though,
I
needed
the
bath
too....

Bob
K.
freshly-scrubbed-experienced-waver-with-a-loose-brake-pedal-and-no-locking-glove-box-thing-a-ma-jig.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 12:44:25 -0800 (PST)
From: David Rosenbaum <rosenbau@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

Dear Bob:

The side-to-side wobble of your brake pedal sounds very abnormal.

The glovebox mechanism (locking center console) is flimsy: mine hasn't
broken yet, but doesn't always lock. Other D90 owners have replaced the
box with Tuffy (steel) box - I may someday but the vinyl-covered plywood
box is so......British!

Your ride through the carwash sounds invigorating - maybe something to try
out here when the caffeine isn't working.

Best wishes,
David R.

'94 D90.

------------------------------

From: DSonneborn@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:51:59 -0500
Subject: info needed

 I use to be the proud owner of an Land Rover 88 series 3 model
  and really enjoyed it but circumstances forced me to sell it. 
  I'm now researching used Range Rovers but find that I'm not sure
  that I understand the automatic (viscous) locking diff. Could
  someone explain this in further detail? What are the benefits and 
  drawbacks of this arangement? Any additional comments would be
  appreciated. On the '87 and '88 year Range Rover models,is the
  center diff limited slip when its not in the locked position?
  Are there limited slip axel diff units available for Range Rovers?
  If so, does anyone have any recommendations?
  
  Thanks
  Dean Sonneborn
  dsonneborn@alo.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 15:55:07 EST
From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben)
Subject: 110 FS in NJ

I was driving by the local Audi/Porsche/Range-Rover dealr.
They have a red D90 and a 110 on consignment.  20k miles, 
nice and clean.  White, if I remember right.

ask Jeff Carrington (wow! what a name for an exclusive car dealer!)
908-389-1000,  and bring $45,000 with you, 'cause the seller is "firm"!
Whoa, I'd be firm, too, if I had a 110.  never mind..

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:13:44 -0700
From: marbourg@lanl.gov (Douglas C. Marbourg)
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

>It finally had to happen. Speeding home from work, I spotted a fully
>decked out RR on the other side of the highway. Before I could blink

Yea, Cool isn't it!  I've had Triumph owners wave too!

>My brake pedal seems to have about 1.5" of play to the left and right
>(ie, it jiggles back and forth). 

Yea, mine does it to.  I've talked with the dealer about it and once again
got the "that's normal" response.  My clutch pedal does to.

>Also, I'm wondering how other D90's storage/glove box/whatever is
>holding up. 

My CUBBY did the same.  Got it replaced under warranty.  Also, be carefull
not to leave it open and pull things out of the back.  I snagged the lid and
ripped it "cleeen offf"

>Lastly, I know washing is against rover etiquette, 

Yea, I just found that out to.  By some of the waxing comments I got back,
I'll try and keep my mouth shut about "w***ing" my vechicle from now on ;-).
Happy Trails,

Doug Marbourg, 94' NAS D90 #1123
marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marit_=26_Bj=F8rnung?= <bjjen13b@telepost.no>
Subject: Tow points etc. and snatch recovery
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:30:55 +-200

------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20EC.88B737A0
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The military D ring or the JATE ring appears to be the same item. I =
fully recommend "The Land Rover Experience" by Tom Sheppard published by =
Land Rover.

It has a chapter devoted to  snatch towing (KERR) where the recommended =
attachment points are two JATE rings (or, as they are more correctly =
referred to, "military specification Land Rover towing shackles" part =
no. RR3237) with a safety lanyard attached to the tow hook and pintle.

Note that the recommended maximum load that should be applied to a pair =
of JATE rings are only 3.4 tonnes!! (after having applied industry =
safety factors).

This chapter has also a copy of the famous picture showing a RR after a =
complete tow hook and pintle broke loose and  recoiled through the rear =
and front windscreens. In an incident in Norway a couple of years ago a =
father and son in a 4WD stopped to help pull up a car that had skidded =
off the roead. The father used a snatch technique - something broke and =
recoiled and the boy got killed.

Please - Snatch recovery is potentially DANGEROUS use with care.

(Some armies only allow this technique on armored vehicles)

Bjornung Jensen
Norway
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------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marit_=26_Bj=F8rnung?= <bjjen13b@telepost.no>
Subject: Tow points etc. and snatch recovery
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:35:21 +-200

------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20ED.17429C80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

(Sorry if this mail is being duplicated, problems with my mail program)

The military D ring or the JATE ring appears to be the same item. I =
fully recommend "The Land Rover Experience" by Tom Sheppard published by =
Land Rover.

It has a chapter devoted to  snatch towing (KERR) where the recommended =
attachment points are two JATE rings (or, as they are more correctly =
referred to, "military specification Land Rover towing shackles" part =
no. RR3237) with a safety lanyard attached to the tow hook and pintle.

Note that the recommended maximum load that should be applied to a pair =
of JATE rings are only 3.4 tonnes!! (after having applied industry =
safety factors).

This chapter has also a copy of the famous picture showing a RR after a =
complete tow hook and pintle broke loose and  recoiled through the rear =
and front windscreens. In an incident in Norway a couple of years ago a =
father and son in a 4WD stopped to help pull up a car that had skidded =
off the roead. The father used a snatch technique - something broke and =
recoiled and the boy got killed.

Please - Snatch recovery is potentially DANGEROUS use with care.

(Some armies only allow this technique on armored vehicles)

Bjornung Jensen
Norway

------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20ED.17429C80
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20ED.17429C80--

------------------------------

From: Modern@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy)
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:57:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

kolanrj@gw.startribune.com,Internet writes:
>Also, I'm wondering how other D90's storage/glove box/whatever is
>holding up. Not that I keep valuables in there, but the locking
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>that I now have a handy hole where the key insert once was. Anyone
>else run into this?

Yep.  I just had the dealer replace mine a few weeks ago.  They put a
whoel new mechanism in and handed me a new set of cubby keys.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 17:00:01 -0600
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: 15K Disco Service

I got my Disco back from 15 K service and was pleased at the price,  
231.00 to me but a number of new goodies billed to LRNA. The problems  
to be rectified were cracked driver's side mirror glass in very cold  
weather( fixed without a murmur) , grease squealing steering column  
grommet, ABS warning sensor light chip in ECU (this had to be  
ordered) and leaking hoses from PS fluid can. They replaced hose  
clamps. There were some odd things, replaced an engine gasket and   
some sprocket cranks and I will need to check in my parts book to  
identify these. 

	But all told it was a satisfactorey experience. I can  
recommend this dealer (in Indianapolis) They are starting a new Rover  
Center (Centre) which should be good for serious fixes. 

	They also had a numbe rof low milage LWB , Hunter and County  
RRs 92 and later on the lot. It ios Tom Wood Rover in Indianapolis.  

------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marit_=26_Bj=F8rnung?= <bjjen13b@telepost.no>
Subject: Tow points etc. and snatch recovery
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:30:55 +-200

------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20EC.88B737A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The military D ring or the JATE ring appears to be the same item. I =
fully recommend "The Land Rover Experience" by Tom Sheppard published by =
Land Rover.

It has a chapter devoted to  snatch towing (KERR) where the recommended =
attachment points are two JATE rings (or, as they are more correctly =
referred to, "military specification Land Rover towing shackles" part =
no. RR3237) with a safety lanyard attached to the tow hook and pintle.

Note that the recommended maximum load that should be applied to a pair =
of JATE rings are only 3.4 tonnes!! (after having applied industry =
safety factors).

This chapter has also a copy of the famous picture showing a RR after a =
complete tow hook and pintle broke loose and  recoiled through the rear =
and front windscreens. In an incident in Norway a couple of years ago a =
father and son in a 4WD stopped to help pull up a car that had skidded =
off the roead. The father used a snatch technique - something broke and =
recoiled and the boy got killed.

Please - Snatch recovery is potentially DANGEROUS use with care.

(Some armies only allow this technique on armored vehicles)

Bjornung Jensen
Norway
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20EC.88B737A0
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BB20EC.88B737A0--

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 17:06:14 -0600
From: "John B. Friedman" <johannes@scribes.english.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Octane and Milage

I have been experimenting with grades of gas and seeing what milage I  
get in 95 5p Disco. With mid grade and premium mix I was getting  
about 19.8 to 20.4 pump to pump, filled neck to overflowing, no air,  
and cruise control at 65.
	Today I ran a test on Amoco regular, on which the car ran  
very happily. It was very windy but I got 18.7. It may be that the  
milage then woulkd be slighly higher on mid grade or mid grade and  
regular mixes. But my car will run very happily on the flatlands on  
87 octane.

			John Friedman

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 13:24:06 -0800
From: "John Y. Liu" <johnliu@earthlink.net>
Subject: Thanks to All (Re Pre-1990 RR)

Many thanks to everyone who cleared up some of my misconceptions and gave me
lots of useful information about buying a RR and the different model years.
Only on this list can you put out a question and get 7 or 8 replies the next
day!

I occasionally answer questions on the LRO list.  Hopefully I'll eventually
be in a position to be as helpful on the CSO/RRO list as you all were to me. 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:41:46 -0700
From: marbourg@lanl.gov (Douglas C. Marbourg)
Subject: Tricked out D90

Well, I just got a ride in a local LR reps tricked out D90.  It just went
through a 4.7:1 gear change, OME, 33" tires, ARB f&r and a Warn xd9000i
installation.  He also installed a British aluminium hard top (Painted in
matching BRG with a white top).  I duno about that one.  He had to remove
the role-bars (interior and ext.) to do it.  Looks great though.  He also
got rid of the stock rims and replaced with the HD steel jobs. O'yea he also
removed the sway bars and rear bumper (for better departure angles). Etc.
Etc. Et. al.

How did it perform you might ask?  Well, lets put it this way, I'm still
trying to peel off my underwear.  Should have worn Depends before I got in
the vehicle.

Seriously, the gearing was supurb.  In combo with the lockers and 1st gear
low range, serious rock climbing was unparalleled to ANY vechicle I've been
in. Most low-range off road driving was done in 3rd and 4th.   Highway
performance didn't appear that compromised either.  You name it, the vehicle
did it. Period.  The only unfortunate thing was we were only on the trail
for about an hour.

I'll keep ya posted on the gearing and its long turn durability.
Happy Trails,

Doug Marbourg, 94' NAS D90 #1123
marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 20:26:58 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Tricked out D90

Doug,
Sounds like you had a great time in the D90. I new it was only a matter of 
time until there would be products available to really trick out these 
great vehicles! Waiting patiently for my order from Safari Gard so I can 
play on the 8-10+ trails with out worry!

Cheers,
Barnett
Childress
95 D90
Superwinch Husky8 winch
OME HD suspension
ARB dual Air lockers
Swaybars removed
and soon to have;
bumper/bullbar, front skid plate, rock sliders, rear bumper ends, rear 
skid plate, diff gards!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 09:37:34 +0800
From: Oscar <omont@mnl.mnl.sequel.net>
Subject: Re: Erratic idle 89RR

Try checking on your throttle potentiometer.  The '89 comes with a fixed
(non adjustable) one and the '88 with an adjustable one.  I opted to change
to the adjustable on.  Or maybe the the O2s are beginning to go.  That's
what I did to rid mine of the 100-200 idle thing..and it worked.

Oscar
'89 NAS RR
it does go off-road!!!

=====================================

>Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 10:14:34 -0800
>From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
>Subject: Re: Erratic idle 89RR

>Brian Rainbolt noticed:

> The idle fluctuates about 100-200 rpm.

>My '95 Discovery does this too. I've assumed there's nothing wrong, but 
>perhaps I should wait and see what everyone else has to say.

-- 
>Christopher Boese

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:24:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

In a message dated 96-04-02 15:10:43 EST, you write:

>Also, I'm wondering how other D90's storage/glove box/whatever is
>holding up. Not that I keep valuables in there, but the locking
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>the
>people

Well, someone asked a long time ago, what would happen if you took your softy
90 thru an automatic car wash... I say:  "go ask Bob!"  heh heh.  Thanks for
being honest enough to post your "experience..."  

Re your cubby, I have had to adjust my lock several times too.  Your friendly
dealer will be more than happy to replace the whole thing for you though, so
waste no time in bringing it to his/her attention.  

Congrats on your deflowering wave today.  I too was waved at... by a series
owner! yeah!  I felt like a boob though, as I had on a suit and tie and had
just dropped off a resume to a local firm.  So he waved, but I know he wuz
saying "damn yuppie."  ha ha

John. "I can't be a yuppie, I don't have a job!"
94 D90, #1336, N9EJC

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:23:57 -0500
Subject: Re: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler

In a message dated 96-04-02 14:26:55 EST, you write:

>Just picked up the May issue of Four Wheeler. There are 2
>LR related articles as well as some other stuff.

My fiancee picked up this issure for me,  but I wanted the April issue,
apparently there was some info on Defender there?  Anyone have the article
they can fax me?  608-251-9121 will receive a fax.  Thanks in advance.  

And I'll be voting for the defender, too!

Thanks,
John. 94 D90.

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:24:01 -0500
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

In a message dated 96-04-02 15:48:53 EST, you write:

>!
>Your ride through the carwash sounds invigorating - maybe something to try
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>David R.
>'94 D90.

Hey, invigorating, yeah, I'm gonna do the carwash thing with the surrey and
the tonneau on... that'd replace the caffiene!
John.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 21:21:14 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  Workin at the carwash yeah...

I had no idea there were so many wary of the wash!

If you haven't tried it yet, you should! It's not only fun, it's Good
Clean FUN! (you knew it was coming!)

Thanks to those who responded about the center cubby... glad to know
I'm not alone.

As for the brake pedal question (the 1.5" wobble back & forth), I've
gotten conflicting reports. I decided to whip by  the dealer and see
if they'd take a quick look, and ended up hearing them say (see if
you can guess....):

"Oh, that's normal"

apparently, there are some of you who wobble, and others who seemed
alarmed at this situation. I think I'll have to do some further
investigating and report back...

------------------------------

From: mcdan@rt66.com
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 20:49:34 +0700
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

 
> >It finally had to happen. Speeding home from work, I spotted a fully
> >decked out RR on the other side of the highway. Before I could blink
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> >decked out RR on the other side of the highway. Before I could blink
> Yea, Cool isn't it!  I've had Triumph owners wave too!
For months -- Nothing then in the past week had two interesting incidents.

First driving down the street I get passed by a New (still had temporary
tags) Jeep pull along side and the driver gave a big thumbs up. Then, at the
next light, he gets out and walks back to tell me that what he really wanted
was a Defender! Turns out that he fell in love with them while he was living
in Kenya.

The second happend as I was driving home at rush hour. I look over into a
parking lot and see a D-90 sitting there. (This was the first one I had seen
in months that wasn't on the dealers lot or in my garage). They flashed their
lights and both driver and passenger got out and waved as I went by. I was
startled, but got a return wave off before I passed.

Daniel McDonough
mcdan@rt66.com

95 D-90 Ragtop
90 D-90 SW

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:27:33 -0800
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler

At  9:23 PM 4/2/96 -0500, PurnellJE@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 96-04-02 14:26:55 EST, you write:
>>Just picked up the May issue of Four Wheeler. There are 2
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>Thanks,
>John. 94 D90.

The April Defender info was pretty weak.  Just a write up of their long term
test D90.  They liked it.  The May is a bit more interesting due to the
5.0L Rover Engine build up.   So who's going to be first and
write up a real world report for the rro list?

If I remember to bring April into work tomorrow I'll fax out the article.
(If you haven't got 10 copies by then...)

-Rick

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: 5.0L V8's
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:53:35 +0930 (CST)

 Rick asks:

> 5.0L Rover Engine build up.   So who's going to be first and
> write up a real world report for the rro list?

Anybody talked to Brian Tid recently?  His 5.0 EFI must be close to 
completion, his last post to LRO mentioned G/box problems maybe its 
finished already (g).

Of course there is always Byron Listers stroked 3.5  (4.1)L twin turbo "for 
when too much horsepower is barely enough"  eh Jan....

cheers

Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 04:25:34 -0700
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: AMSOIL air filter

AMSOIL also makes a reusable high flow air filter for the
Discovery. I have used it for the last couple of months.
Have all the milage numbers written down but still need
to do the calculations. Will post the results (yes, Clayton,
I am STILLLLLLLL working on it).

When I originally was looking for a Discovery air filter
and surfing the net, I found the following article:

Here's the info I have on air filter performance.  Tests were done using
SAE J726C Test Method  5-best --> 1-worst

                              Oiled foam    Paper   Oil Bath   Oiled Gauze
                             (AMSOIL, UNI)                         (K&N)

Large particle efficiency          5          5         5            4   
Small particle efficiency          5          4         1            2   
Airflow capacity                   5          2         3            5   
Dust holding capacity              4          2         5            2   
Load up characteristic             4          1         5            1   
Backfire characteristic            3          2         5            3   
Cleanability                       4          1         4            3   

As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were
designed for.  Their original application was on racing engines, where
airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little consern.  They
are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types.

Ed Hackett   edh@maxey.unr.edu         The Desert Research Institute
DoD #0200  WMTC  BMWRA  DIOC           Reno, Nevada   \(702\) 673-7380
KotLS  KotLE  DotD #0003          I'm not really a chemist, I'm just one of
900SS  K100RS  501 CAMEL          them motorsickle sonsabitches.  __=o&o>__

The part number is S1694, cost is $41.25 ($37.95 + $3.30 S&H). I
ordered mine through Bob Cameron (AMSOIL dealer 397110) at
NMAU21A@PRODIGY.COM. I am not associated with AMSOIL but have
experience with Bob. When I first talked to Bob, AMSOIL did not
make a Discovery air filter. Through him, I sent in a Land Rover
air filter for them to use as a template. AMSOIL is now produces
the S1694.

my two cents worth,
Mark Murphy
mmurphy@evolving.com
1995 white 5spd Discovery
Denver, Colorado

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 05:08:36 -0700
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: AMSOIL High Flow Air Filter

AMSOIL also makes a reusable high flow air filter for the
Discovery. I have used it for the last couple of months.
Have all the milage numbers written down but still need
to do the calculations. Will post the results (yes, Clayton,
I am STILLLLLLLL working on it).

When I originally was looking for a Discovery air filter
and surfing the net, I found the following article:

Here's the info I have on air filter performance.  Tests were done using
SAE J726C Test Method  5-best --> 1-worst

                              Oiled foam    Paper   Oil Bath   Oiled Gauze
                             (AMSOIL, UNI)                         (K&N)

Large particle efficiency          5          5         5            4   
Small particle efficiency          5          4         1            2   
Airflow capacity                   5          2         3            5   
Dust holding capacity              4          2         5            2   
Load up characteristic             4          1         5            1   
Backfire characteristic            3          2         5            3   
Cleanability                       4          1         4            3   

As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were
designed for.  Their original application was on racing engines, where
airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little consern.  They
are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types.

Ed Hackett   edh@maxey.unr.edu         The Desert Research Institute
DoD #0200  WMTC  BMWRA  DIOC           Reno, Nevada   \(702\) 673-7380
KotLS  KotLE  DotD #0003          I'm not really a chemist, I'm just one of
900SS  K100RS  501 CAMEL          them motorsickle sonsabitches.  __=o&o>__

The part number is S1694, cost is $41.25 ($37.95 + $3.30 S&H). I
ordered mine through Bob Cameron (AMSOIL dealer 397110) at
NMAU21A@PRODIGY.COM. I am not associated with AMSOIL but have
experience with Bob. When I first talked to Bob, AMSOIL did not
make a Discovery air filter. Through him, I sent in a Land Rover
air filter for them to use as a template. AMSOIL is now produces
the S1694.

my two cents worth,
Mark Murphy
mmurphy@evolving.com
1995 white 5spd Discovery
Denver, Colorado

----- End Included Message -----

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 7:14:33 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Tricked D90 Questions!

Doug,
Were the gears in the front and rear diffs that were changed to 4.7:1 
custom units? Also do you know what size and type of 33" tire he was 
running? 33x9.5/16, or 285/75R16? etc. Did the tires rub at all on full 
compression?

Just curious.......Hmmmmmm
Cheers,
Barnett
95 D90 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 05:33:54 -0700
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: AMSOIL high flow air filter

AMSOIL also makes a reusable high flow air filter for the
Discovery. I have used it for the last couple of months.
Have all the milage numbers written down but still need
to do the calculations. Will post the results (yes, Clayton,
I am STILLLLLLLL working on it).

When I originally was looking for a Discovery air filter
and surfing the net, I found the following article:

Here's the info I have on air filter performance.  Tests were done using
SAE J726C Test Method  5-best --> 1-worst

                              Oiled foam    Paper   Oil Bath   Oiled Gauze
                             (AMSOIL, UNI)                         (K&N)

Large particle efficiency          5          5         5            4   
Small particle efficiency          5          4         1            2   
Airflow capacity                   5          2         3            5   
Dust holding capacity              4          2         5            2   
Load up characteristic             4          1         5            1   
Backfire characteristic            3          2         5            3   
Cleanability                       4          1         4            3   

As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were
designed for.  Their original application was on racing engines, where
airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little consern.  They
are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types.

Ed Hackett   edh@maxey.unr.edu         The Desert Research Institute
DoD #0200  WMTC  BMWRA  DIOC           Reno, Nevada   \(702\) 673-7380
KotLS  KotLE  DotD #0003          I'm not really a chemist, I'm just one of
900SS  K100RS  501 CAMEL          them motorsickle sonsabitches.  __=o&o>__

The part number is S1694, cost is $41.25 ($37.95 + $3.30 S&H). I
ordered mine through Bob Cameron (AMSOIL dealer 397110) at
NMAU21A@PRODIGY.COM. I am not associated with AMSOIL but have
experience with Bob. When I first talked to Bob, AMSOIL did not
make a Discovery air filter. Through him, I sent in a Land Rover
air filter for them to use as a template. AMSOIL is now produces
the S1694.

my two cents worth,
Mark Murphy
mmurphy@evolving.com
1995 white 5spd Discovery
Denver, Colorado

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 06:27:13 -0700
From: Mark Murphy <Mark.Murphy@evolving.com>
Subject: Re: AMSOIL High Flow Air Filter

Sorry about the multiple post but playground.sun.com
returned my mail on each try. If John Friedman hadn't 
responded, I would probably still be trying. So thanks,
John.

Just got another reject, interesting ... I have already
received one reject for each post that I sent. ????????
So much for the "Principle of Email Conservation".

Mark Murphy
mmurphy@evolving.com
1995 white 5spd Discovery

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:55:52 -0500
From: grantw@freenet.carleton.ca (Grant Wilkinson)
Subject: solihull fax

Thanks to all on the list that replied to my request for Solihull's fax
number.  I am waiting in breathless anticipation for a reply to my fax.

--

Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa, Canada
grantw@freenet.carleton.ca

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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 Output: lines 1728 [content 1143  forwarded 81 (cut  90) whitespace 455]

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