The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: re:Tricked D90 Questions!
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 9:35:41 MST

Barnett asks...

> Were the gears in the front and rear diffs that were changed to 4.7:1 
> custom units? Also do you know what size and type of 33" tire he was 
> running? 33x9.5/16, or 285/75R16? etc. Did the tires rub at all on full 
> compression?

The D90 in the Four Wheeler "Top Truck Challenge" also has 4.7:1
gearing.  Where are folks getting these things?  ...and can someone
remind me what the stock gearing is?

On a sort of related note:  saw an interesting picture from this years
Moab Easter J**p Safari -- a driverless Toyota 4x4 crawling up a trail
while the driver was standing outside taking pictures.  Seems he's
installed an ultra low gear xfer case giving him Unimog-class crawl
ratios.  I think the URL is:  http://www.flatlander.com/ and follow the
links to the Hell's Revenge trail description.

--
Jeff Gauvin

------------------------------

From: Jeff Gauvin <jeffg@minerva.ncrmicro.ncr.com>
Subject: The Correct URL...
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 10:17:50 MST

Man I wasn't even close!

Here is the correct URL for the Moab Easter J**p Safari coverage:

http://pages.prodigy.com/Flatlander/30js.htm

Sorry!
--
Jeff "Mr. Short Term Memory" Gauvin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 12:40:27 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re:Tricked D90 Questions!

Jeff asks; What was the stock axle diff gearing in the Defender?

Jeff I believe it is 3.54:1. A good strong gear set. Remember the 
Defender's transfer low range is something like 3.2:1. Most other 4WD's 
have a low range around 2.25:1.

Gearing isn't the whole equation though. A V8's power band and low RPM 
torque go a long way in crawling. A 4 cylinder would need more radical 
gearing to get the same final result.

I have also heard of people modifying their J**P's transmissions with a 
super low first gear. Off road you get a super crawl, and on road you can 
start off in second. Absolutely no on road performance change like 
swapping axle diff gears.

Cheers
Barnett 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:04:20 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: new rubber...help

Richard -- I had the same problem of locating tires a couple of weeks ago.
The replacement for the XMS244 is the Michelin 4x4 in the 205-80-R16 size.
Initially I was skeptical about this tire as it looked more street
oriented than the XMS, but on closer inspection not really so. Michelin
claims it has 40% more ground contact area, a much more flexible tread to
help grip on rough terrain, reinforced shoulder, better grip in the wet
and on snow, etc. It has an extra reinforcing bead protruding from the
sidewall to protect against rocks and sidewall piercing (a problem on the
XMS), and the voids between the treads actually seem larger than the XMS.
I got a set of them and thrashed them around the desert on "roads" with
sharp rocks, soft sand, etc last week and found them to be excellent. I'd
be interested to hear of anyone else's experiences with them. 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, RICHARD COLEMAN wrote:

>          CSOers,
>             I find myself in need of new tires. Mine have
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>                                 Rick
>                                 90 RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:12:56 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler

Yes -- it's great to see all that LR stuff in Four Wheeler -- they are 
finally starting to recognize we exist! The Disco report was pretty 
glowing, seeminigly it had more off-road use than the long term Defender 
they reported on earlier!

There was also a mention, I believe, of Borla offering or developing an 
exhaust system for our beloved vehicles. Anyone know about this?

Another thought -- I notice the Disco has a 23 gallon tank. Does anyone 
know if this will fit on a Range Rover?

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 13:43:35 EST
Subject: Re[2]: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler

     The Borla exhaust mentioned in Four Wheeler is  available for the 
     Range Rover 1990 and beyond. Rovers North have them for sale in their 
     latest catalogue. I don't know if they are available through other 
     outlets yet. 
     
     Borla have a Web page but there is no mention of them there:
     
     http://www.borla.com
     
     I don't know whats involved in fitting one of these exhausts to an 
     earlier RR, you'd probably end up having to replace the catalytic 
     converters. Borla do advertise a Universal muffler - has anyone fitted 
     one of these to a Range Rover?
     
     Regards
     Mike Lenaghan       

> Subject: Re: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler
> Author:  John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org> at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)]
> John Brabyn
> 89RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:59:07 -0500
From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN)
Subject: Re[2]: new rubber...help

         Thanks John,

           More questions....did you buy these locally or
         mail order and can I ask what you paid. I've found
         I can save $$ by buying mail order e.g. Tirerack,
         Tire America, or Discount Tire. Thanks for the
         reply and I'll let you know what happens.

                                 Regards,

                                   Rick
                                   90 RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:17:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Returned mail, was Re: AMSOIL High Flow Air Filter

Hi Mark,

There are a number of subscribers who's accounts routinely reject the rro
postings, others reject randomly.  There was a brief discussion about this
a week or two back and the fix was deemed more of a problem than simply
deleting the returned mail.  This is probably something that ought to be
noted every few weeks to avoid confusion.  Alternatively, we could
individually spam the offening accounts, but that is not the Rover Way, of
course 8^)

I did contact one of the guys who's account was rejecting my postings, 
and my individual email got through just fine and he was quite embarassed 
about the whole thing.  So for those who think they're missing out on 
postings, the senders have your mail.  I wonder how many returns this 
will generate?

Walt Swain
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover              * 
              * Davis, California       | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Wed, 3 Apr 1996, Mark Murphy wrote:

> Sorry about the multiple post but playground.sun.com
> returned my mail on each try. If John Friedman hadn't 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)]
> Mark Murphy
> mmurphy@evolving.com
> 1995 white 5spd Discovery

------------------------------

From: crash@merl.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:16:48 -0500
Subject: Snatch versus smooth recovery...

I've never seen the need for a "snatch" recovery.  Sally (my pretty much
stock 94 Disco) has pulled some pretty heavy vehicles up some pretty nasty
slopes without any sort of kinetic action.  The best one was a 3+ ton
Mercedes diesel well and truly bogged at the bottom of a ditch (the front
wheels were spinning freely in the air as the Mercedes was held up by
the opposite side of the ditch against the front bumper.

Sally pulled it out in low range, low gear, no yank at all.  

We _did_ take the bother to throw heavy rugs over the towlines so that if
something ripped free it would be contained.

The moral- Getting unstuck is more a matter of gentleness and
grace than it is of raw power.  

	-Bill Y

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 11:57:35 -0800
From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder)
Subject: new rubber

I was advised that cupping, aka scalloping, can also indicate you need new 
shocks.

-Matt

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:07:51 -0500
Subject: Re: 89 RR poor cold starting. 

>My '89 RR Vogue EFi Auto has started to be a pig to start when cold. (Need
>I say it's a 3.5 petrol?) It always idled badly from cold, and has to be
>kept going on the throttle for about 5 minutes.

I would guess that the coolant temperature sensor is bad.  The best thing to
do is buy a workshop manual and test all the parts of the EFI system (never
replace parts unless they test bad).  The '89 ECU does not give fault codes
so you will need a good multi-meter to test the system at the ECU.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 12:35:03 PST
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: LR stuff in May Four Wheeler

>There was also a mention, I believe, of Borla offering or developing an 
>exhaust system for our beloved vehicles. Anyone know about this?

Rovers North has the Borla Exhaust for RR's and Discos 
listed in its latest (Spring Specials?) flyer.  Prices in the upper
$600's if my memory is working.  Noticed that there wasn't a D90 listing.
Pretty sure it is just a cat back system.  Less restrictive mufflers and
stainless steel construction being the big selling points.

-Rick

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Paint Care
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:07:54 -0800

>Any non-clear coated paint will rub off slightly with or without
>compound
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>black IS clear coated, hence the extra $300 charge).
>Gotta love 'em, gotta wonder about 'em too! ('em=LR)
even still the dealer tried to sell me undercoating and clear coating. I
kept asking, "but, isn't already undercoated? Isn't already clear
coated?" and they replied "Well yes, but this is special." (I'll bet it
is!) Can't fault them wanting to make a buck, but Caveat Emptor.

>Any non-clear coated paint will rub off slightly with or without
>compound

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 14:18:13 -0700
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Re: Waves, Brakes, and other oddities.

>> >It finally had to happen. Speeding home from work, I spotted a fully
>> >decked out RR on the other side of the highway. Before I could blink
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>> Yea, Cool isn't it!  I've had Triumph owners wave too!
>For months -- Nothing then in the past week had two interesting incidents.

I also own/ride a motorcycle ('91 BMW R100GS-Paris Dakar for those
interested) and find that about 80% of riders outside of a city area will
wave (except harley riders, who seemingly will almost never wave to non-hog
riders).

I have yet to get a wave from a LR owner. They all seem oblivious to the
fact that there is even another LR within 100'. I would think Defender
drivers would be a little more concious, as it is more of a cult ride than
my Disco or the RR. I suppose if I wanted another ride that people stare at
and wonder what it is, and ALWAYS have someone with the same model wave, I
should have bought the D90. Dammit, I wanted power windows!

- Paul.

'94 NAS Disco V8i

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 17:55:39 EST
Subject: Defender 90 Automatic

     Thought you might be interesred in the following press release.
     It doesn't say if a 5 speed will be available as well as the 
     automatic!
     
     Mike Lenaghan
     
     DEFENDER 90 AUTOMATIC DEBUTS AT 1996 NEW YORK AUTO SHOW
     April 3, 1996, 3:34 PM EST
     
     Record breaking sales streak continues 
     
     NEW YORK, April 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Land Rover North America, Inc. today 
     announced Defender 90 will return to North America and, for the first 
     time, be equipped with an automatic transmission. The vehicle will 
     return as a 1997 model with a larger, 182 hp, 4.0 litre V-8 engine and 
     air conditioning as standard. Company officials told reporters at the 
     New York Auto Show that the Defender 90 automatic will have permanent 
     four-wheel drive, four-wheel disc brakes and a newly designed center 
     console that includes integrated cupholders and a lockable cubby box. 
     A soft top version of the automatic Defender 90 will be available in 
     the spring of 1997. Final pricing has not been set, but the station 
     wagon will be priced at approximately $34,000.
     "The Defender 90 will return to the United States for the 1997 model 
     year in response to dealer and consumer demands," said Roger J. Ball, 
     vice president, Product Marketing, Land Rover North America, Inc. 
     "When Defender 90 production ended at the completion of the 1995 model 
     year, we hoped we could find a way to bring it back since it 
     symbolizes so much that is Land Rover. We were gratified by the 
     requests we had to continue it."
     The production of Defender 90 for North America was suspended for the 
     1996 model year pending certification of the new engine/transmission 
     combination.
     The company has also announced a limited edition Discovery called the 
     XD. Painted in eye-catching AA yellow, the special Discovery will be 
     equipped for heavy duty off-road use including skid plates, BF 
     Goodrich All-Terrain 225 tires, and a wrap around brush bar with Land 
     Rover driving lights.
     Ball also announced a new Camel Trophy-style competition for U.S. Land 
     Rover dealers called "Trek '96." Using the specially outfitted 
     Discovery XDs, participants will have the opportunity to test their 
     off-road driving skills against one another, as well as their personal 
     stamina and resourcefulness. An additional 250 of these vehicles will 
     be available in early 1997 with a target price of $36,000.
     Land Rover also announced record sales for March and the completion of 
     the best first quarter in company history. 1,764 vehicles were sold in 
     March, marking the twenty-fourth consecutive month-over-month 
     increase. Company officials credited the thirty-one Land Rover Centres 
     with helping to create this record sales pace which totaled 5,618 for 
     the year, 51.1 percent ahead of the same period in 1995. The Centres 
     alone accounted for 42 percent of sales out of the 97 U.S. 
     dealerships. There will be a total of approximately 70 Land Rover 
     Centres by year end, company officials said.
     This remarkable sales growth has led Land Rover to begin construction 
     on a new $10 million national headquarters complex in Lanham, 
     Maryland. A 60,000 square foot building will be joined by a companion 
     facility for Land Rover University, the training and development arm 
     of Land Rover North America. Both sites will feature their own 
     off-road demonstration tracks designed by John Cummings, who was 
     responsible for landscape composition at EuroDisney.

------------------------------

Date: 03 Apr 96 18:38:38 EST
From: Tom Snurka <76550.2503@compuserve.com>
Subject: K&N Filters

Kevin Kelly writes:
>>The difference today is that all modern fuel injected engines have airflow
meters that regulate the airflow to the engine so the K&N filter will not
make any difference in flow<<

NQR but close enough.  My original message said nothing about increasing airflow
rather I wrote of the convenience of being able to clean and reuse it.  It is
probably because of that fact I find that I actually perform that particular
piece of maintenance more often than simply changing a paper based filter.  That
simple fact has the tendency to keep my particular motors happily breathing
through cleaner filters than if I didn't use them.

>>Before I buy anything I always think to myself "If Land Rover could get more
power and better mileage from something for less than a $100 wouldn't they do
it?"<<

Well, maybe.  However, the 4.2 liter ECU chip and synthetic gear lubricants come
to mind here.  Both upgrades combined would have cost the boys at Solihull less
than $100 and from the latest tech info I've received, mo' power and better gas
mileage are definitely within the realm of possiblity.

------------------------------

From: DavidP30@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 19:34:56 -0500
Subject: Hard Starting 93 RR !!

Hello! All,

 My 93 RR has been acting up! It starts normally on active routines but, when
she sits over night or all day at work, she will take far to many cranks to
start, kinda embarassing when my buddies jeeps & fords fire up !! My thoughts
leen towards the auto choke or maybe some of those electronic thingamajigs!
any one got any idea what I should look into first?? HELP!

David 93RR....No waves Yet!! but I'll wave if You Do!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 16:33:27 -0800
From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett)
Subject: Re: Defender 90 Automatic

You wrote: 
>     Thought you might be interesred in the following press release.

>     four-wheel drive, four-wheel disc brakes and a newly designed center 
                                                    ^^^^^^
>     console that includes integrated cupholders and a lockable cubby box. 

Hmmm..  coulda sworn my old '94 has that :)
snip
>     Maryland. A 60,000 square foot building will be joined by a companion 
>     facility for Land Rover University, the training and development arm 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>     off-road demonstration tracks designed by John Cummings, who was 
>     responsible for landscape composition at EuroDisney.
Somehow it seems ironically appropriate that LRNA training and amusement are 
mentioned in the same line. :)  Will the clowns be behind the wheel or beside it?

Cheers,

Jeremy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:38:05 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Anti-Roll Bars

Another related question I've alwaysbeen curious about is the front 
radius arm bushing changes you mention; I know that in the mid 80's they 
stiffened up these bushings and added dual rate rear springs. When sway 
bars were added the rear springs went back to single rate (though still 
stiffer at 150 lb/in than the oricinal 130 lb/in RR springs) and the 
bushings were "recalibrated". What was this recalibration? were they made 
stiffer or softer???

Also, the models, such as mine, with the dual rate rear springs always 
seem a bit lower in the rear than those with the single rates; is this an 
illusion on my part? 

Finally, does anyone know what the rear springs were on the 92 US regular 
model of Range Rover, which had less trim and no sway bars compared to 
the County model?

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Marit_=26_Bj=F8rnung?= wrote:

> Here in most of Europe the D90 has never had any anti-roll bars! The =
> springs have, as far as I know, been single rate front and rear except =
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
> Bjornung Jensen
> Norway

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 17:51:34 -0800 (PST)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Defender 90 Automatic

Three hearty British Cheers!!!

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: CrankIt@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 23:37:26 -0500
Subject: subscribe

subscribe

------------------------------

From: Daryl Webb <dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: RE:5.0L V8's
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:57:41 +0930 (CST)

Ok i made a rather cryptic remark about Bryon Listers V8 the other day.  
Just so every body else can be as jealous as me I'm posting some info on 
this motor.  this posting appeared in another news group a few weeks back.

Imagine this sucker in a D90 hill climber.......

> the numbers for the low boost version of the motor
> 500hp@6500rpm and 450Lb-ft@5500rpmi at 8-10psi.
> The high boost version. 700hp@6500rpm and 650Lb-ft@5500rpm (15-18psi)
> redline (7000rpm).

 
 The motor for those interested is:
 4.1L stroked rover 3.5 V8
 4130 custom crank
 4130 rods
 Wiseco forged pistons
 roller rockers etc
 300 duration 550" lift cam.
 Big valve rover heads.
 Sequential injection
 2 T28 race turbos.
 Dry sump
> The hp figures are guesstimates based on Buick GN V6's and a twin turbo 3.5 
> Rover I saw dynoed not long ago.
> The high boost version. 700hp@6500rpm and 650Lb-ft@5500rpm (15-18psi)

> |		  When Too Much HorsePower Is Barely Enough                    |

drool slobber lust

Have a happy and safe easter

Daryl

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:19:13 +0100
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: : Snatch versus smooth recovery...

>I've never seen the need for a "snatch" recovery.  Sally (my pretty much
>stock 94 Disco) has pulled some pretty heavy vehicles up some pretty nasty
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>wheels were spinning freely in the air as the Mercedes was held up by
>the opposite side of the ditch against the front bumper.

I think that snatch towing is most effective when recovering a vehicle
bogged in soft ground, where the suction of the mud needs to be overcome as
well. In such situations, sometimes the rescue vehicle can't get enough
traction to pull the stuck motor out with a dead rope, whereas using the KE
stored in a proper snatch rope makes the job easy.
Any vehicle recovery always puts me in mind of that scene from the film with
Michael Caine; I can't remember the name, but it's set in WW2 North Africa.
The scene involves winching a number of vehicles up a steep hill, and the
dreadful consequences of the winch cable snapping.

 Tom
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas D.I. Stevenson                          gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station,      Tel 01475 530581
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland.       Fax 01475 530601
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 8:07:53 -0500
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: Tricked D90 gearing 

Hi all,

Did some calculations on the Defender drive train gearing.

Standard gearing;
(3.692 1st gear)x(3.32 lo range)x(3.54 diff's)= 43.39:1 Compound low.

Modified gearing;
(3.692 1st gear)x(3.32 lo range)x(4.70 diff's)= 57.60:1 Compound low.

A total difference in compound low = 24.67%

Got these tire sizes from BFG;
BFG 265x75/R16 = 31.7" dia.
BFG 285x75/R16 = 33.0" dia.

Total increase in tire dia. = 3.93%.

(24.67% gearing reduction)-(3.93% tire dia. increase)= 20.74% total 
gearing change.

So you end up with a Compound low of 53.67:1 with 33" tires, (if I haven't 
screwed anything up!):}

I've read in some of the 4WD rags that with a V8 a total compound low 
somewhere in the 60:1 range is about as good as it gets. Total control for 
serious rock crawling.

On road in my stock Defender at 60 MPH, in 5th gear, I'm turning around 
2200 RPM's. With a total gearing reduction as above of approx. 20%, RPM's 
would increase about 440 RPM's, to approx. 2650 RPM's, for the same 60 
MPH. Not to bad.

However you would also have a 20% error in your speedometer and odometer 
to deal with. At 60 MPH that's a 12 MPH error. That would drive me nuts. 
Maybe these gauges could be re-calibrated?

Any thoughts on this?

Cheers,
Barnett

------------------------------

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