The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 15:44:55 -0400
Subject: U.S. Spec. Range Rover FAQ

The FAQ I wrote with year by year changes to the U.S. spec. Range Rover is
now on the Rover Web:

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/

The URL to go directly to the Range Rover FAQ is:

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.4.RangeRover_ClassicUS.html

I want to thank Ben Smith for putting it on the web.

Please let me know if you find any errors or typos (I know there are a few
typos).

I am starting on a Range Rover buyers guide FAQ so if anyone has anything
that may help let me know.  

I also plan to eventually do a Range Rover owners guide FAQ.  Does anyone
have a copy of "how to repair RR seat switches step by step" I know I have
sent it to at least 5 people.  My copy was lost when my hard drive crashed
last month (everyone back up tonight, so you won't have the problems I did)

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:18:00 -0600
From: William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  90 RR purchase - got one

Thanks for all the great advice about the 90 RRs I've been looking at.  It
really helped give me a better idea of what to look for and how much to
pay.  So. . .

I have agreed to purchased a 90 RR county, 83,000 mi., couple of small
lower body dents, clearwater blue (only slightly better than brown), CD,
sunroof, RR brush guard, rear light guards and metal grille type running
board (are these very useful for body protection or should I take them
off).  It also has a plastic looking skid plate which I assume is more to
keep water and mud out than to really protect from serious rock
banging?  Will pick it up from dealer (Northpoint) in Atlanta later this
week.

I got a discount because the front spoiler was cracked, but I am
planning on removing it right away anyway. Can the spoiler driving lights
be remounted on the brush bar until I can get some Hellas or should I just
go ahead an buy new lights now? (I assume I can use the existing
wiring regardless).

I also need a roof rack for occasional large items like ladders, plywood,
ski, etc.  I have seen Yakima and Thule advertised but don't know what
would be best.  Any suggestions?

Finally, the dealer is offering a 1 year warranty (power train, some
electrical, ac, some brake parts, steering, etc.), but for $900.  My initial
reaction is all aftermarket warranties are bad, but I would hate to have a
moneypit experience like some others I have heard of.  I am encouraged
that the vehicle is good enough to qualify for the warranty anyway.   

Thanks again for all your help.  Now to find some good offroading.

Getting ready to wave a lot, 
William
90 RR  - (been waiting a long time to type that)

------------------------------

From: lenagham@inetmail.bachman.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 96 17:54:58 EST
Subject: Technical Service Bulletins ETC

     I was browsing the Internet this afternoon and came across the 
     following US government site:
     
     ftp://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/auto/auto.htm
     
     All of the car manufacturers are required to keep the government 
     updated on emissions related info and service bulletins related to 
     emissions. 
     
     Scroll down to ROVER.ZIP and download the file The file retrieved 
     needs to be unzipped and it expands to about 20 individual files. Most 
     of them are related to 94 and 95 models and there are some interesting 
     publications (although pricey).
     
     There are references to some electrical troubleshooting manuals that 
     look as though they go back as far as 1987 for the RR. The following 
     are 3 examples  of the expanded(unzipped) files.
     
     If any body has the following manuals let me know if they are worth 
     ordering. I assume they are available to the public, if not your 
     friendly neighbourhood mechanic should be able to get them for you!
     
     Regards
     Mike Lenaghan
     87 RR(2)
     
     Description: Engine Management Systems
     
     Manufacturer: Rover
     
     Make: Land Rover
     
     Model: Discovery, Defender, Range Rover Classic, Range Rover 4.0 SE
     
     Year: 1987 - 1995
     
     Part Number: N/A
     
     Price: $50.00
     
     Ordering Information: 
     
     Send certified check to:   Land Rover North America
                                4390 Parliament Place
                                Lanham,  MD  20706
                                Attn: Fedworld Coordinator
     
     All orders shipped within 24 hours and will be sent first class 
     US Mail.
     
     Publication Type: Service Training Course Book
     
     Description: Electrical Troubleshooting
     
     Manufacturer: Rover
     
     Make: Land Rover
     
     Model: Discovery, Defender, Range Rover Classic, Range Rover 4.0 SE
     
     Year: 1987 - 1995
     
     Part Number: N/A
     
     Price: $50.00
     
     Ordering Information: 
     
     Send certified check to:   Land Rover North America
                                4390 Parliament Place
                                Lanham,  MD  20706
                                Attn:  EPA/Fedworld Coordinator
     
     All orders shipped within 24 hours and will be sent first class US 
     Mail.
     
     Publication Type: Service Training Course Book
     
     Description: Electrical Troubleshooting II
     
     Manufacturer: Rover
     
     Make: Land Rover
     
     Model: Discovery, Defender, Range Rover Classic, Range Rover 4.0/4.6
     
     Year: 1987 - 1996
     
     Part Number: N/A
     
     Price: $100.00
     
     Ordering Information: 
     
     Send certified check to:   Land Rover North America
                                4390 Parliament Place
                                Lanham,  MD  20706
                                Attn: Fedworld Coordinator
     
     All orders shipped within 24 hours and will be sent first class 
     US Mail.
     
     Publication Type: Service Training Course Book
     

------------------------------

From: Chris_Browne@US014-BOSTON-MINET.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: 16 Apr 96 12:45:01 EDT
Subject: Camel trophy

     Just heard through the grapevine that progress is difficult out in 
     Borneo
     
     there was one 25kilometer section that took 72 hours to travel, and on 
     another day they traveled 300 meters!!!!!
     
     Sounds like one they all deserve the team spirit award this year 
     
     regards
     chris browne
      

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 10:20:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "David K. Hudson" <dkh@howdy.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Front seat electrical disaster

My wifes 89 RR behaved similarly--the seat would recline, but not go back 
up.  I unplugged the 8 pin cable that goes directly to the seat motors 
and "hot-wired" each one to get the seat to a reasonable position then 
left the cable unplugged.  Some day I'll fix the switches.

Dave

On Mon, 15 Apr 
1996, Scott Bronson wrote:

> This is an odd one.  I'll be shelling out bucks to the dealer later on this
> week if nobody can help me because this is a literal pain in the butt.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> should it come to that.
>         - Scott

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:45:22 +0100 (BST)
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Front seat electrical disaster

>Over the weekend, the driver's side seat in my 1990 Range Rover County
>suddenly started refusing to move backward.  It still reclines OK, still
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>There's no motor struggling noise and it still moves forward, so I guess it
>would have to be the switch, relay, or wiring.
Scott
Funnily enough, the same problem afflicted my dad's RR last week. The
problem is probably with the switch contacts. Pull the switch knobs off and
then carefully prise open the top of the switch box attached to the seat.
The switch assembly inside can then be unplugged and taken to a place of
safety to be repaired. Remove the screws and carefully separate the switch
case; watch out since the contacts are operated by little ball bearings and
springs. Clean all the contacts and then reassemble, using a bit of
petroleum jelly to keep the BB's under control while you are putting it back
together. Replacement is the reverse of dissassembly. It should take about
20 minutes for the whole job, unless you lose some of the sprung BB's!
The switch box lid may need a blob of superglue or some such to keep it in
place after dismantling.
Good luck!

 

 Tom
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas D.I. Stevenson                          gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station,      Tel 01475 530581
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland.       Fax 01475 530601
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:20:25 -0400
Subject: 110 for sale...

>From todays' Phoenix AZ Republic, "93 Defender 110 - Rare - Estate Sale.
 #129 of 500 made. Never off road, books is $44,600 priced to sell $35,600.
912-0791.

That would be in area code 602.

Hope somoeone on the list snags it!
Gerry "PHX AZ" Elam

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Hidden winch mounts

I mounted a hidden version with no trouble below the oil cooler lines. 
Mine only projects 3.5" below the chassis horns.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Fri, 12 Apr 1996, David C. McCormack wrote:

> At 10:37 PM 4/12/96 UT, Mark Talbot wrote:
> >All, 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)]
> David C. McCormack
> 95 White Discovery, Wisconsin, "MackX4"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:38:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: RE: Hidden winch mounts

This agrees with my own esperience, with a hidden mount of my own  
design, although I used a Ramsey winch from Leon Rosser Jeep ($399 for a 
REP 8000).

I designed mine so it fits behind the spoiler in case you want to leave 
the latter on.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, David C. McCormack wrote:

> Mark,
>         I mounted the winch this weekend and have over an inch of clearance
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 60 lines)]
> David C. McCormack
> 95 White Discovery, Wisconsin, "MackX4"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Range Rover California Models?

There is no physical difference in California models after 88 (before 
that they had a vacuum advance delay valve to further suffocate the 
engine) but there is a difference in the required maintenance schedules 
listed in the shop manual -- presumably to make doubly sure that 
emissions are kept to a minimum).

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Mon, 15 Apr 1996 KKelly6788@aol.com wrote:

> I was just looking through some of the invoices I got from the PO of my Range
> Rover and I found a checklist stapled to the dealer invoice for the 30,000
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
> '89 Range Rover
> First sold in WI (came to CA a few months later)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Front seat electrical disaster

Scott -- HALT do not remove the seat! The problem is almost certainly the 
switch. At the most, replace the switch; at a minimum take it apart and 
squirt contact cleaner in and jiggle it a lot. It's a very common problem.

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Scott Bronson wrote:

> This is an odd one.  I'll be shelling out bucks to the dealer later on this
> week if nobody can help me because this is a literal pain in the butt.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)]
> should it come to that.
>         - Scott

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 16:57:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: 90 RR purchase - got one

On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, William Owen wrote:

> I have agreed to purchased a 90 RR county, 83,000 mi., couple of small
> lower body dents, clearwater blue (only slightly better than brown), CD,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> keep water and mud out than to really protect from serious rock
> banging?  

Congratulations! Put some more lower body dents in immediately by taking 
it off road!

The plastic skid plate may be the engine undertray which is designed to 
duct more air through the engine to improve cooling. An admirable idea 
but mine is permanently off after I got sick of removing it every time I 
had to do maintenance. I note that the 93 on models do without it 
anyway. Also it attaches to the spoiler, which I've removed.

> I got a discount because the front spoiler was cracked, but I am
> planning on removing it right away anyway. Can the spoiler driving lights
> be remounted on the brush bar until I can get some Hellas or should I just
> go ahead an buy new lights now? (I assume I can use the existing
> wiring regardless).

I imagine with ingenuity you can mount the lights anywhere, but I 
recently got the Hellas when I took my spoiler and driving lights off. 
The Hellas seem to make up for the absence of other lights.

> I also need a roof rack for occasional large items like ladders, plywood,
> ski, etc.  I have seen Yakima and Thule advertised but don't know what
> would be best.  Any suggestions?

Depends what you want to put on it; the Thule and Yakima are fine for 
light duty work. If you want to get serious I guess one of the others such 
as available from Rovers North would be better but cost more. 

> Finally, the dealer is offering a 1 year warranty (power train, some
> electrical, ac, some brake parts, steering, etc.), but for $900.  My initial
> reaction is all aftermarket warranties are bad, but I would hate to have a
> moneypit experience like some others I have heard of.  I am encouraged
> that the vehicle is good enough to qualify for the warranty anyway.   

I'd get the warranty if it is fairly comprehensive, but not if it is a 
strictly interpreted engine block and driveshaft version as often 
purveyed by used car dealers.

Congratulations once again and good luck

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: DGTJR@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:39:04 -0400
Subject: LRNA Bites Back!

Howdy, all.  I’ve been reading the list for months now (way before the
split!), and it’s now time to jump in.

I just picked up my Disco from service at the dealership (Land Rover Dallas)
and also picked up a brochure sitting next to the cashier’s desk titled "Land
Rover Discovery - A Sport Utility Above All Others".  It turns out that it is
LR’s rebuttal to the unfavorable review in "Consumer Reports".  Here’s the
gist of what it says (aside from the glowing remarks snipped from assorted
publications that they pasted all over the front and back covers of the
brochure):

CR gave the Disco an "unsatisfactory" rating.  We think they’re wrong.
CR bases their ratings on consumer responses.  At least 100 responses are
required per model to be included in the report.  Anything less is considered
"insufficient data".
122 Disco owners responded to CR --  50 owned 94 models; 75 owned 95 models;
3 were tossed out as questionable responses.  This is "not statistically
significant and definitely not random".
CR combined the two models years so as to have enough responses to include
the Disco in their ratings.  This goes against CR’s own policy.  (Remember,
I’m just transposing what’s in the Land Rover brochure.)
Industry averages (apparently against which CR compares specific models) were
different from 94 to 95 model years, yet CR used the 95 model year average to
compare the combined 94 and 95 Discos.
The 94 model was the first for Disco in the US.  (Of course, it’s been in
production in Europe since 1989, but that was omitted from the brochure.
 Don’t get me wrong, though -- I love my Disco, quality glitches [character]
and all!)
More quality checks were added between the 94 and 95 model years.
Of the 122 responses, 23 had manual transmissions, even though 5-speeds are a
"small percentage of sales".
CR rated the Disco below average, even though not one of the owners rated it
below average, and many rated it above average.
CR bought a 95 Disco and had it in service from 3/95 through 2/96.  It
required no unscheduled dealer visits, except one for damage caused by one of
their testers.  "This hardly denotes an unreliable vehicle."

It goes on to say that braking distances are the same as the Exploder’s and
better than the Pathf**d*r’s, and that 0-60 acceleration is better than the
Pathf**d*r, and 0-100 acceleration is better than the Acura SLX and Exlpoder.
 (Who ever takes these things up to 100 MPH?!!)

The back cover reads, "If you want to buy a toaster, perhaps you should read
a Consumer Reports test.  If you want to buy a SUV, ask the people who know
them - automotive journalists."  Then, it has more glowing snippets from
assorted publications.

Just thought I’d share this with those not close to a dealer.  Rover on, and
for God’s sake, wave!  (I got a HUGE wave last weekend from a couple in a RR
Classic LWB in Highland Park, where Dallas' upper crust live.  That's a good
sign.)

Greg Taylor
95 Alpine White Disco
Dallas, Texas
dgtjr@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:10:21 -0400
From: Richard Ruffer <rruffer@interserv.com>
Subject: Something wrong with the major?

Is the major messed up?  I've received no CSO mail today and my LRO
digest never showed up.

Rich Ruffer
Morristown, NJ
rruffer@interserv.com

------------------------------

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