The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 08:27:37 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Douglas C. Marbourg" <marbourg@lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: Crested Butte Rally

At 03:56 PM 5/12/96 EDT, you wrote:
>ate the entire body of the article. Could you post the details to me as a
>number of members of are club are trying to make plans to attend.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>								Mark Ritter
>								SOLAROS Events

Hi Mark, I got your message.  Following is the info I received last week. I
hope most of the active "listers" will attend.  I would be great meeting
most of ya!

>>The National Land Rover Rally, co=sponsored by the Solihull Society, 
>>will be Aug. 8-14 in the Crested Butte area.  Call Greg Chernushin at 
>>1-800-383-5886 for more info.  He is doing a mailing this week.

>>T. F. Mills
>>tomills@du.edu                               University of Denver Library
>>http://www.du.edu/~tomills                          Denver  CO 80208  USA

Doug Marbourg, '94 NAS D90 #1123

Santa Fe, New Mexico
(505)665-1729 work
(505)983-3574 home
marbourg@lanl.gov

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 08:42:43 -0700
From: Chris Brosious <brosious@pogo.den.mmc.com>
Subject: RE: D90 Speedo Lights

Rich Ruffer of Morristown, NJ writes that his D90 speedo is dimly lit 
even with the instrument lights switched to high

I have a 94 D90, my speedo light, actually all of the instrument 
lights are bright, even at the switch low setting I can still read 
them at night, with the switch in high, they are pretty bright.  I 
have not been in the dash yet, so I am not sure how many bulbs are 
present and what the arrangement is.

Chris Brosious
'94 D90 #963

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 13 May 96 08:34:23 MST
Subject: problems

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486
I vote for option 3! How about Arizona??? Can't get much drier than
this, I can't even remember the last time we had rain. Maybe around
Thanksgiving time?? Maybe even October? As I said, I honestly can't
remember. (EXTREME fire hazards in all of Arizona's national forests
right now, currently fighting a fire in northern AZ.)

Sorry, I wish I could help analyze your EFI problem, but I'm not that
talented. I do have a copy of an article on the Land Rover EFI that I
could fax you. Let me know if you want it and your fax number...

Good luck.

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and what lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters compared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph Waldo Emerson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 16:59:26 -0400
X-Sender: garymead@mail.microserve.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
From: "Gary F. Mead" <garymead@mail.microserve.net>
Subject: problems

I am sure glad that this server is back on. I need help before I go to the
local mechanic. In damp 30-50-ish weather,my 89 rr starts fine. But when the
temp gauge begins to rise into the white zone, the idle goes nuts (up to
about1500-2000). When one tries to go, the beast stalls out, and is
difficult if not impossible to start for a few minute. I can also smell
unburnt petrol. The car runs fine after that.

I know there are a million sensors, but what is every(any)body's opinion on
the prime suspect.

1. CO sensor ?

2. Coolant temp senor (s)

3. Move to a drier warmer area

thanks for any opinion response

------------------------------

From: JEPurnell@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:56:19 -0400
Subject: D90 Stiff Clutch

The dealer just bled my clutch system to try to fix a little problem I was
having.  My clutch would get very stiff whenever the truck would sit after
being run and teh heat from underneath soaked into the clutch area, like
running into a store quick after driving a while, and taking off again: stiff
clutch till air flow got going under truck.  Or, when in LA, I'd park on
blacktop at the laboratory, and coming out after work, all the heat would
come up from the hot surface under the truck, and the clutch would be stiff
for a little bit.

They called LRNA tech line, and were told that the problem is not common,
never heard it before.  So they bled the system and we'll see if the problem
continues...

JOhn, D90 #1336.
PS: to all that I polled, I do have both heat shields over the cat
converters.  Thanks for looking,.

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 13 May 96 08:56:37 MST
Subject: trail advice needed (Arizona)

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486

Lee,

Where are you coming from? And when will you be in Arizona? I have a
friend that used to work for Scottsdale Land Rover, and now leads trail
runs for "up-scale suv's" (Hummers, Land Rovers, etc...) His runs are
fun, relatively easy, and he and his wife "trim the trails of damaging
vegetation" before each run. (IE: Arizona desert pin-stripes.) His name
is Paul Mathis, (602) 946-9953 Leave a message, as he's "never" home.
Other than that, there are literally hundreds of "forest roads" many
thousands of miles. You can get a handy book at the map stores showing
all the forest roads and J**p trails in all of Arizona for around $18. I
have one and can get you the name/publisher info if you want.

I also have numerous friends that LOVE wheeling, and would be glad to go
out with you. (There's safety in numbers.) Many of us also like to take
our guns and go shooting too, (don't worry, not some crazed ya-hoos or
anything) so if you're from a place that outlaws guns (where only the
"outlaws" have guns) it's another opportunity to do something different.

There are some places where you can cross rivers too. (I just did this
last weekend, water is around the top edge of the tire, close to 30"
deep.) Kind of fun and exciting if you've never done it... Again, safety
in numbers, just in case!

I live in the Phoenix/Mesa area, but I like wheeling in the high
country, up in northern Arizona. More mountainous scenery. Great photo
opportunities for those "memory books."

Well, I've rambled on long enough... if you're coming to Phoenix area,
give me a call. Work: 236-3544 Home: 820-8052

 #=====#         #========#            _________
 |___|__\___     |___|__|__\___       //__/__|__\___
 | _ |   |_ |}   | _ |  |   |_ |}     \__/-\_|__/-\_|}
 "(_)""""(_)"    "(_)"""""""(_)"         (_)    (_)

 1971 "88" IIa   1970 "109" IIa        '87 Range Rover
 LIC: LION B8    Historic plates        rear Lock-Right  Bilstein shocks
                                        Crane cam        Optima battery
                                        OME HD springs   SSB CB radio
 Phoenix Arizona USA (602) 820-8052     Hella lights (6)
 Have: tools, knowledge, lodging, etc...  Pager: (602) 275-2508 #6486

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and what lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters compared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph Waldo Emerson
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 09:31:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lee Levitt <wheelman@shore.net>
Subject: trail advice needed (Arizona)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

My wife and I will be spending a week in Arizona. I've already reserved a
Disco with Enterprise...so now I'm looking for fun trails/drives/etc, in
the Phoenix, Sedona and Grand Canyon areas.

Anyone have any recommendations for some relatively *easy* trails...I sure
don't want to buy any body work for a rented Disco... ;-)

Multiday excursions would also be considered...

Thanks,

Lee Levitt
wheelman@shore.net

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 11:57:27 -0400
Subject: Re:Polybushings

>What I remember from previous discussions on this subject is that 
>poly bushings are better than the original rubber ones.

I would not come out and say that polybushings are "better" than rubber, they
are almost always "harder" than rubber.

>Why are they better?

They are harder and they don't break down when covered with oil (or PS
fluid).

I am not a big fan of polybushings, They are usually harder than I would like
(some polybushings are not a true 100% polyurethane, the "Polybush" brand
that advertises in LROI claims it is "softer" than the competition).  I
replaced all the bushings on a BMW autocross car I had about 10 years ago
with 100% polyurethane, and I did not like the "feel" I felt that I had much
to much vibration transmitted through the car.  Rubber seems to be the best
material for bushings, all of the BMW Factory sponsored (Group N) race cars
have rubber bushings (it is a hard rubber).  I don't think Rover is putting
in the rubber bushings to save money.  If you have a Land Rover that is very
"wet" underneath (engine oil, gear oil, ATF, and ATF from the PS unit) poly
bushings may be the way to go because they do not break down.

I do not know that much about polybushings on Land Rovers (but I have
discussed the pros and cons of them on BMW's for years).  I just wanted to
add my two cents and ask for information from other list members on what they
replaced their bushings with.( I know I am going to have to do it some day)
 Do the Polybush brand bushings transmit vibrations through the vehicle?  Do
any companies make rubber bushings that are harder than the OEM bushings?

Kevin Kelly
LROA #1419
BMW CCA #50039

------------------------------

From: 73363.427@CompuServe.COM
Date: 13 May 96 12:05:02 EDT
Subject: Re: ARB

 >>As for ARB lockers, they would of course strengthen the axle diffs but put
a lot of additional strain on the shafts and the centre diff. Imagine locking
both axles but forgetting to lock the centre diff, and then hitting some
really bad terrain... no telling how long the centre diff would hold. The
V8 has enough power to mangle most anything, including centre diff, tranny
and propshaft joints. I prefer to take my time and winch my
way out rather than to gamble a diff or the tranny everytime I get bogged
down. Personally, Just my opinion.<< 

Locking diffs basically only increase the forces seen beyond them. They allow
all the power that they receive to be transmitted to just one side, rather that
splitting it evenly between the two shafts. This is true of both the center and
axle diffs. Locking diffs would have very little effect on the center diff, and
I can't see how having the center diff unlocked with front and rear diffs locked
would cause any damage. It would only relieve any strain caused by difference in
rotational speeds of the front and rear driveshafts. More damage to the
drivetrain is caused by tires that are spinning suddenly receiving traction,
than locking diffs ever thought about. If you are bogged down in mud, you are
more likely to cause damage *without* a locking diff that you are with one,
because of the absorption of forces as tires suddenly gain traction. Especially
with someone who learned to drive offroad from watching television commercials
revs the engine to 6000 rpms thinking that it is going to get them anywhere.
Locking diffs will cause more strain in rockcrawling, etc where you are more
likely to have all the driving force of the vehicle transmitted to one wheel.
Thus putting all of the driving force on one half shaft. But at least this isn't
typically a violent force. I installed locking diffs several months ago, and
have used them only a few times. They are not something you turn on every time
you lock your hubs or center diff. In fact, as I have become more familiar with
them, I have found circumstances where they are a hinderence, rather than an
asset.

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]
     EEEI           EEEI

!^NavFont02F07E00004HNE1972A

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 13-May-1996

------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: Shocked Disco
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:30:19 -0700

After 20K miles, the OEM shock on the Discovery seem to be merely
decorative items now. I go off road about every other weekend, so they
do get a workout. I'm wondering if that is about normal wear for shocks,
or should I try to talk the dealer out of a set under the warranty? 

I called BritPac about a set of replacements and they recommended OME
shocks @ $65/ea (they also suggested a new set of springs @ $60/ea for
1.5" lift, but then I'd have to spend $1000 on new tires/rims, $600 on
lockers....) So before I spend next week's allowance on shocks, are
there any OME users who can vouch for them?  any other "shocking"
recommendations?

On an unrelated note: 
I bought a Thule "Weekender" roof storage unit and mounted it on the
factory roof rack (those removeable bars that are found under the back
seat). For the spendthifts in the group, that works OK, but since it
opens from the back, it's a little awkward getting things in and out of
it. So, I'll probably go the extra $$$ and get the bars that move it
further back making it easier to get to it from the rear bumper.
Mounting it on the factory bars did survive this weekend's torture test
so if you're looking for a low-buck (well $250) storage option, that
would do the trick. If you do this, you might want to bind the two bars
(that are permanently mounted to the roof) together with a tiedown strap
or something since they did seem to flex a bit while bouncing around in
the woods. The other option would be to get the Thule clamps and load
bars that do basically the same thing (for another $120). The other
advantage is this unit can be put on either of our cars. Also, and I'm
still not sure about this, but having that big, though somewhat
aerodynamic, box on the roof seemed to IMPROVE my gas milage. I'm still
researching this one as I find it hard to believe myself.....

        ____
    ___|____\
   /|__|_\__(|                           Bob Watson
  |   |   |  \                 a-robw@microsoft.com
  |---|___|___\____      Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA 
  |~~_|=  |=  |o_  }\                
 [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}|    '95 Beluga Black Discovery
    \_/        \_/                            N7UMU

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 10:39:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: where to buy what polybushings

On Mon, 13 May 1996 Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de wrote:

> -Why are they better?

They are not actually better in my view; they do last longer but 
 are generally stiffer -- the latter being a feature that is not better
except for street use. 

Just an opinion

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: lenagham@bachman.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 96 13:42:08 EST
Subject: Re[2]: Polybushings

     I have used the polybush bushings from R.H. Engineering for the last 2 
     years in my 87 RR and didn't notice any objectionable harshness or 
     vibration. Last summer I added Bilstein shocks and tried to use the 
     polybushes on these as well - it turns out the shock bushings are 
     manufactured for the OEM shocks and do not fit the Bilsteins 
     (certainly not the top bushings on the rear). So I am now running with 
     polybush shock bushings on the front and rubber bushings on the rear.
     
     Last autumn I had the bushings replaced on the A-arm. Again I used 
     POlybush bushings. It was not until I added these last bushings that I 
     notice vibration, but only under hard braking.
     
     I have a second 87 RR which I have also had fitted with the polybush 
     bushings (except A-arm). I am still running this one with OEM shocks. 
     I want to replace the shocks with Bilsteins - my wife and daughter 
     both comment on how much better the other Rover rides and handles.
     
     Mike Lenaghan

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:38:46 -0400
Subject: Range Rover Intake Noise

As far as problems go this one is minor, my '89 Range Rover (and other pre
'95's I have been in) has intake noise around 68-70 MPH (the speed I drive
most of the time).  I guess I am getting old, I remember flipping the air
cleaner upside down on American cars as a kid to get MORE intake noise.  Does
anyone know how to stop this?  The reason I am asking the question now is
that as I continue to get information for the next version of my Range Rover
FAQ (the URL is:
<http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.4.RangeRover_ClassicUS.html>) I just
found something that said that the square plastic air filter housing (that
looks like the one on the new MkII) that was on the '95 County LWB and '95
County Classic reduced intake noise.  I don't want to even guess what LRNA
would charge for one of these, but I am curious if it would just bolt on to a
'89 or if there is anything I can do to my existing air filter to eliminate
the intake noise.  I have tried a bunch of stuff including adding a long tube
to the end of the intake snorkel, taking the snorkel off the air filter, and
even attaching a length of dryer vent pipe to the end of the housing with the
snorkel off. 

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: 13 May 96 18:54:43 EDT
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: New Disco roof rack

Have any of you gotten the "Invitations" brouchure from LR. Great trips and
destinations. On the second page is a blue Disco with the best looking roof rack
I have yet to see for the Disco. Both the upper and lower logitudinal bars curve
w/ the roofline. At first I thought it was the rain-gutter mounting copy of the
CT rack that safety devices is making (also very nice, check June LRO int.), but
it isn't.The dealer says that it will be standard issue on the new XD Disco but
isn't certain whether it will be offered as an accessrory for the rest of us. I
hope it is 'cause it sure looks great. If any of our UK residing members have
seen this rack in there neck of the woods could they let me know. Maybe it is
sold in the motherland but not here.

									Mark
Ritter
									well
"kitted out"
									94 Disco
									

------------------------------

Date: 13 May 96 18:54:46 EDT
From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Disco winchmount, brushbar and Front recovery points for sale

This is a repost of an earlier messge that I believe the major barfed back. As I
just ordered a ARB front bumper for my Disco I won't be needing the Brushbar,
winchmount and front recovery points anymore. I'll sell the lot for
$385+shipping. Seperately I'll sell the brushbar for $255 and the winchmount and
recovery points for $200. The winchmount and the recovery points must be used
together and the brushbar has been modified to allow the fairlead to exit just
below the bumper.It is a very neet clean installation and I believe there is a
picture of it on the SOLAROS web page @ www.learnlink.emory.edu/solaros/. It is
the only white disco in the pics with a winch. The setup has worked well for me
I just really like the look of the Disco with the ARB bumper. I thought about
getting the Safari Gard bumper, but the cost was about $300 more without
shipping to Atlanta (another $70).The ARB was available from a local 4WD shop.
The Safari Gard has a bit better approach angle but not $370 better. If that was
a major issue for me then I would splurge on it. If your interesed in what I'm
peddling write or call at 770-643-9504.

							Mark Ritter
							well "kitted out" 94
Disco 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 16:11:21 -0400
From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>
Subject: D90 Running Boards FS

Anyone want a pair of running boards for a D90?

Being the L-R traditionalist, I have decided to swap the runningboards on
my '94 D90 for sidesteps... and am selling the like-new running boards. 
Any takers?

They are black (an exact match for the D90 roll cage tubes, etc.) and in
virtually new shape (I never step on them... don't need to.   There should
be a picture of them in the vehicle gear section of the D90 catalog.   Come
with all mounting hardware, etc.   Asking  $300 plus shipping.  If I
remember right, they were about a $500 accessory from Land Rover and even
Atlantic British wants $350 for knock-off imitations.

Please let me know... I will pull them off the vehicle, disassemble and
clean, touch up any brackets that have worn finish, wire-brush and clean-up
all hardware, etc.  They'll be ready to bolt on and like new.

Let me know.

Cheers, 

P. Reid
preid@csi.compuserve.com
(513) 642-9032

'94 D90
'58 S1
'65 Belgian
'67 109 pickup
'62 88 Safari (FS)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 15:27:36 -0600
From: Paul Orland <paulor@chs.com>
Subject: Simbar Bull Bar

I am leaning towards a "Simbar" wrap-around bull bar instead of the factory
LR bar. It looks heavier duty (and nicer looking, IMHO) than the factory bar.

Questions:

- Have seen it advertised in LRO, (John Craddock, 178 pounds). Anyone know
of a US distributor? Any issues with NAS Disco's and fitting EOC bull bars
to them? Am aware of the "not air bag tested" issue and am not too concerned
about that one.

- Anyone own one of these bars? Comments?

- Paul

paul.orland@chs.com

94 NAS Disco V8i

------------------------------

From: lenagham@bachman.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 96 15:03:47 EST
Subject: Re[3]: Polybushings

     Dave,
     
     I bought the first set of bushings from Roy Higgins (R.H. Engineering) 
     directly. In all honesty I can't remember how much I paid. I called 
     him and he shipped a set of bushings to my brother in the UK and I 
     picked them up when I was there on a business trip. He told me just to 
     send a cheque when I got there - hows that for trust.
     
     The second set I bought from Atlantic British, I have also seen 
     Rover's North advertise them - I think in the $250 a set range. If you 
     want I think you could just buy the panhard rod bushings - to 
     alleviate the leaking PS box problem.
     
     I'm still running with standard springs and tyres so I can't help you 
     there.
     
     By the way I found a mechanic where I live in New Hampshire that 
     replaced all the bushings for a grand total of $70 labour.
     
     Regards
     Mike

> Subject: Re[2]: Polybushings
> Author:  debrown@srp.gov at inetmail
> From: lenagham@bachman.com
> Subject: Re[2]: Polybushings

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 64 lines)]
>      both comment on how much better the other Rover rides and handles.
>      Mike Lenaghan

------------------------------

From: debrown@srp.gov
Date: 13 May 96 11:53:34 MST
Subject: Re[2]: Polybushings

FROM:  David Brown                           Internet: debrown@srp.gov
       Computer Graphics Specialist ~ S.R.P. ~ AM/FM - Graphic Records
       PAB219 (602)236-3544 -  Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486

Mike,

I have an '87 RR and am needing to replace the bushings. I've been
trying to decide between rubber and poly, and have been leaning towards
the poly's. I have just replaced the springs with Old Man Emu heavy duty
springs front and rear and Bilstein shocks. The HD springs provide a
MUCH firmer ride, and in reality, I possibly went a bit too far in
stiffness. (the medium duty may have been better) But I'm not interested
in ride quality as much as off road performance. I do have the typical
"Rover PS pump seepage" underneath the entire left side of the engine,
so the poly's will probably do better... (Approx. 110K miles on the RR.)

Where did you get your bushings, and roughly how much were they?

Did you go with a larger tire? I'm most likely going to go with
235x85x16 tires, roughly 3.5" taller. My concern is that the spare tire
will most likely need to remain the standard size as the larger diameter
may not fit. If you have taller tires, how'd you do your spare? (What size?)

Thanks,

#=======#         _________         "What lies behind us and what lies
|__|__|__\___    //__/__|__\___    before us are tiny matters compared
| _|  |   |_ |}  \__/-\_|__/-\_|}  to what lies within us."
"(_)""""""(_)"      (_)    (_)                     Ralph Waldo Emerson
=========================================================================
From: lenagham@bachman.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 96 13:42:08 EST
Cc: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de
Subject: Re[2]: Polybushings

     I have used the polybush bushings from R.H. Engineering for the last 2
     years in my 87 RR and didn't notice any objectionable harshness or
     vibration. Last summer I added Bilstein shocks and tried to use the
     polybushes on these as well - it turns out the shock bushings are
     manufactured for the OEM shocks and do not fit the Bilsteins
     (certainly not the top bushings on the rear). So I am now running with
     polybush shock bushings on the front and rubber bushings on the rear.

     Last autumn I had the bushings replaced on the A-arm. Again I used
     POlybush bushings. It was not until I added these last bushings that I
     notice vibration, but only under hard braking.

     I have a second 87 RR which I have also had fitted with the polybush
     bushings (except A-arm). I am still running this one with OEM shocks.
     I want to replace the shocks with Bilsteins - my wife and daughter
     both comment on how much better the other Rover rides and handles.

     Mike Lenaghan

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Shocked Disco
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 13:13:08 -0700

That would make sense. With a tail wind, a larger "sail area" would seem
to be beneficial. I'll have to check on the prevailing winds and
jet-stream location from last weekend to see if that coincides with my
direction of travel. (if it is the "sail effect", does that mean I'll
have to start tacking upwind, now?)

-- Bob W.
>----------
>From: 	Tom Walsh[SMTP:tomw@netcom.com]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
>#include <std_disclaim.h>
>*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 96 16:30:15 EDT
From: rdl@NomuraNY.COM (Rob Legerio)
Subject: Re: Milemarker winch, again...

Jeff,

> It is my understanding that the rule of thumb in hydraulics is that you
> need a reservoir volume equal to the GPM rating of the system in order
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
> Besides, I like the idea of independent systems, and I'm very leery of
> overstressing a critical system like power steering!

The theory sounds right but I doubt that any rig using a MM winch has a 3-4 gal
reservoir. Don't think they would sell many if that was the case. Also, in the
4x4 Mechanix article, there were no reported problems with the PS units or
overheating.  The overheat problem Rick has is disturbing and suggests just
another crummy design by LR in the NAS D90 (like the heating system for
example).
 
> There's still always the option of using the PS system, but adding a
> fluid cooler (maybe with an electric fan; there's not usually a lot of
> natural air flow when winching).  This is probably the easiest and
> cheapest route.

I agree, I've seen people use muffin fans on ignition boxes and oil
coolers on race cars where high output engines cause alot of heat
under the hood. How about also adding a larger tank to the existing
system as well?  After reading about Rick's overheat, mabey we need
coolers and larger tanks, MM winch or not. I'd try everything I could
to use the existing system. If that failed, I'd try and find a way to
get a better pump in there before hanging more stuff off the engine.

Rob

=============================================================================
  _________  |        Robert D. Leggiero                    rdl@NomuraNY.Com
 |     | \ \ |        Nomura Securities International       (212) 667-1958
#|_____|__\]\|____    Two World Financial Center, 20th Fl.
#|"___ |-   | ___ |   New York, N.Y.  10281-1198
[|/ - \|____|/ - \|]
  ( o ) ---- ( o )    1994 Defender 90 (AA Yellow, #1894)
=============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 96 16:31:24 PDT
From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: Re: ARB

Hey, I'm getting rro again!

Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:53:11 -0500
>Subject: ARB
>> question.  Does it installation of ARB air lockers in RR diifs increse the
>> strength of the unit

Yes, significantly if you fully believe ARB's propaganda......

>> and if it does what risk does the mod impose on the
>> axle shafts?  
Large if used incorrectly.  But so does using momentum to get over obstacles
one could crawl over slowly with ARB's.  
 

>Has anyone ever heard of a RR axle shaft breaking?
Yes,  LR axles shafts are infamous for being the weak link in the LR drivetrain.
Fortunately I haven't broke one yet.  Do know at least one person that 
carries all four spares after having gone through 3 axles on one extreme trip.

>To the last question: No. But I've heard of quite a few diffs, esp. centre
>diffs, packing up under extreme off-road abuse.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)]
>way out rather than to gamble a diff or the tranny everytime I get bogged
>down. Just my opinion.

ARB's require significant attention by the driver.  But then so does 
winching in order to keep things safe.  As with all modifications to 
your LR something will be compromised.  In the case of ARB's it is 
drivetrain longevity.   Particularly if used incorrectly.  The biggest
problems I've seen with ARB's are directly related to installation and
component quality.  I've yet to hear of a install that didn't fail
in some way within 6 months or so.  Installation is complex for an 
aftermarket system and something is usually botched.  Usually, 
time consuming and expensive to repair.  Make sure you pick someone
who will stand by their work.  ARB did pay for the faulty seals 
that failed 6 months after installation in my D90's diffs.

When they work they are awesome.  I wouldn't trade mine on anything.
Just be forewarned that you are getting yourself involved in a major
project.  Educate yourself on their installation and use.  Be conservative 
in using them. 

>Stefan
><Stefan R. Jacob, 100043.2400@CompuServe.com>
>As for ARB lockers, they would of course strengthen the axle diffs but put

-Rick
'94 D90, front and rear ARB's, winch and some other stuff....

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

From: JDolan2109@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:19:17 -0400
Subject: Piston ring(er) response

Greg <karcraft@magna.com.au> very kindly replied to my query about piston
rings. Greg, you're a friend; I posted on 3 mailing lists, and yours is the
first and thus far, only reply! I'm in Vermont, US of A, but will keep you in
mind if I can't find the parts domestically. Hopefully, I'll have the rings
in hand by weeks end. Thanks for quantifying the measurements of the rings
themselves. I love it when people talk in decimal places... It's much more
scientific than "thicker"!
I've been learning quite a bit about this motor (Rover 3500/Buick 215) and
it's other short lived cousin, the Buick 300 cid, and what can happen when
you "crossbreed" them. (lower end/conrod swap, i.e. 'stroking', heads as well
for bigger valves, toss the 300 block, it's cast iron). Have you ever heard
of exchanging other pistons (example: Chevy Vega), it is basically a GM wrist
pin. I hope this isn't heresy to a ring/piston vendor, but such things are
plentiful and cheap here. Maybe it opens up possibilities for you as well...
If I ever have to over-bore, that's most likely the route I'll go, and escape
the hardship and expense of parts availibility. From what I can tell, Rover
is the only manufacturer of oversize pistons for this motor? However, if you
start talking about bore diameter and "pin to crown" height, the market
'opens up'! Do you have any explanation for why they re-sized the rings and
grooves? I guess "groove collapse" would be a good reason, but would be
interested in hearing others. I'm also curious about the differences that
destinguish the 3.9. Is that a larger bore (if so, what? If .020 over the
3.5's 3 1/2 ", then it might be the 300's pistons in there...), and did they
change the wrist pin?
Has anyone ever fit a Buick 300 cid oil pump to a 3.5 litre? It supposedly
goes right on, and has much better pressures and delivery, especially at
lower RPM...
...let's build a monster and go to Baja next year...
jim "don't throw out that old Buick yet, I want (part of) it" d

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Mon, 13 May 1996 11:58:29 +0000
Subject:       Re: Shocked Disco

Snip!

> Also, and I'm
> still not sure about this, but having that big, though somewhat
> aerodynamic, box on the roof seemed to IMPROVE my gas milage. I'm still
> researching this one as I find it hard to believe myself.....

Apparently you are high enough to catch the trade winds or the solar 
winds! Try driving in the opposite direction. I bet it gets worse 
mileage :)

Tomw
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@netcom.com>
Date:          Mon, 13 May 1996 12:25:34 +0000
Subject:       RE: Shocked Disco

>(if it is the "sail effect", does that mean I'll
> have to start tacking upwind, now?)
> -- Bob W.

Heave to! Adjust the mainsail, jibe the jib!

Tomw, just sailing along!
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

From: Chris_Browne@US014-BOSTON-MINET.CCMAIL.CompuServe.COM
Date: 13 May 96 15:59:19 EDT
Subject: Re: Shocked Disco

     Rob:
     
        I lost the email that I received a while ago, but someone out there 
has a disco with a 2 inch OME lift, 235 85 16s. To clear the 235 he had 
to snip some metal at the rear. 

        When the checkbook allows I plan to get a second set of wheels 
(LR steel 5.5x16)and mount 215/85/16 (either Goodyear MT or 
BFG Tracedge) as this will fit in the stock setup. 

        One crazed idea I have is to paint the wheels AA yellow to 
contrast with the Portafino red of the car. 

  BTW 215/85x16 is equivalent to the 7.00r16 used on Camel discoverys and 
gives you about three quarters of an inch extra ground clearance over 
the 235/70

regards
    Chris Browne
    Baron

------------------------------

From: Defendr90@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:29:13 -0400
Subject: Re: D90 Stiff Clutch

Tour problem is probably the clutch master cylinder. The piston expands due
to the heat and hangs up in the bore. The problem is not uncomon as LRNA has
told you. They have the habit of not admitting their faults. A new clutch
master cylinder should solve your problem. I believe the cylinder has been
updated. A new one solved my stiff clutch pedal. 

If your dealer won't help your, call the LRNA Customer Care 800 number.

Good luck!!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 20:39:13 -0800
From: bronson@diamondmm.com (Scott Bronson)
Subject: Range Rover tiedowns

What do you Range Rover owners do for tie-downs?  I've been using the rear
seat belt shoulder harness hooks for odd-sized things (like my bike), but
they are insufficient now that I've accrued a non-trivial amount of offroad
gear.  I just can't see anything back there to clip a net or bungie cords
to!

Thanks for any hints,

        - Scott

P.S. If anybody wants them, I just took the OEM running boards off my 1990
Range Rover.  They're in Palo Alto and can be had for a song.  I'd hate to
have to throw them away.  (I'm thinking about welding them to my brother's
'78 Datsun 810...)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:48:57 -0600
From: Craig Meuchel <meuchel@cyberport.net>
Subject: Speedometer Needle Light

The speedometer needle light on my '88 Range Rover does not light up when
the lights are turned on.  The tach needle lights up just fine.  Anyone have
an idea on how to fix this?  I spoke with the Rover dealer in Boise, ID who
told me it would require a new speedo.  At over $200, this seems like a high
price to pay so I can seen how fast I am going at night.  Maybe I should
stick with a flashlight!  I would appreciate any help....

meuchel@Cyberport.net

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:21:14 -0700
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: RE: Shocked Disco

Camel Trophy?  Been there.  Done that.  Got the t-shirt.  Next challenge for
Discoveries -- America's Cup!

Coming about!
John
'95 Discovery, 4.5 meters
San Francisco Bay, California

At 12:25 13.05.96 +0000, Tom Walsh wrote:
>>(if it is the "sail effect", does that mean I'll
>> have to start tacking upwind, now?)
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)]
>#include <std_disclaim.h>
>*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 22:21:09 -0700
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: New Disco roof rack

I saw the photo as well, Mark.  It looks to me to hug the roof line a bit
too snug for those of us with sunroofs.  I've got the "Ruta Maya" (the
current rack) on mine.  It's not as sexy, but it does clear the sunroofs.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

At 18:54 13.05.96 EDT, Mark Ritter wrote:
>Have any of you gotten the "Invitations" brouchure from LR. Great trips and
>destinations. On the second page is a blue Disco with the best looking roof
rack
>I have yet to see for the Disco. Both the upper and lower logitudinal bars
curve
>w/ the roofline. At first I thought it was the rain-gutter mounting copy of the
>CT rack that safety devices is making (also very nice, check June LRO
int.), but
>it isn't.The dealer says that it will be standard issue on the new XD Disco but
>isn't certain whether it will be offered as an accessrory for the rest of us. I
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
>									well
>"kitted out"
>									94 Disco

------------------------------

From: "B. Janine Morison" <morison@alumni.caltech.edu>
Subject: XD Disco was: Roof Rack
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:05:38 -0700 (PDT)

 In the post about the new roof rack there was mention on the new
 DX Disco.  I have not heard about this new model.  Will it be
 just like the SD-SE7 styled Discos?  Same engine?  I would really
 like to hear more.  I saw the renderiong of the new LR in a recent
 copy of Rover News from Brittish Atlantic, that was something different
 I think.

 Please, details.

 Janine
 morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu

------------------------------

From: "B. Janine Morison" <morison@alumni.caltech.edu>
Subject: British
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:32:00 -0700 (PDT)

 British... yep nasty bad typo...sorry...

 But, is it a DX or XD Disco...  It's late, I can't
 type worth beans!

 Janine

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 03:34:42 -0400
Subject: Today's USA Today 

I got a call from a USA Today reporter last week (he got my number from the
LRNA PR people I met at the Camel Trophy trials last year) that "wanted to
know what Land Rover owners thought of the Hummer".  He quotes me in today's
(Monday, May 13th) USA Today in an article on the Hummer.  Like most
reporters what he put in quotes was "basically" what I said.  I guess that "A
member of the Land Rover Owners Association Aluminum Workhorse magazine
editorial board" didn't flow like "club newsletter editor" (I really didn't
tell him I was the editor Jimmy).  When I said that "I felt most Hummer
owners don’t tell the dealers when they buy them that they never plan to go
off road and just want a large intimidating  vehicle to drive around town" he
wrote that I said "you're not going to roll up to a Hummer dealer and say I
want it to cruise chicks with"  I think most of us agree that a D90 with the
top off would be a much better vehicle to "cruise chicks with".  The reporter
was a real nice guy and I think he is right on when he writes “For anyone
with a Napoleon complex, this mammoth machine is a godsend.  For anyone with
a sense of modesty, it overwhelms.”  He went on to say that a Los Angeles
area Hummer dealer has a motion detector hooked up to the showroom demo
model, so when anyone touches it a tape recorder under the hood says "Dis ees
Arnold.  Stay away from my Hummah".  If anyone runs in to Arnold (in one of
his five Hummers) or Rapper Coolio (a new Hummer owner) off road someday make
sure to let us all know.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:51:56 -0500
From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon)
Subject: Hummah!

I am ahhhhh-nooooo-ld!

Stay away from my hummmah!

Whatever!  I will have to pick up USAToday, eh?  *laugh*

Lond live Land Rover!!

Arnold Yoon
University of Wisconsin - Madison
E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu
Voice: (608) 259-9936

Land Rover 4 Ever!
1995 Land Rover Discovery
"Four Wheel Drive Exemplified"

------------------------------

From: Philip Lochner <plochner@icon.co.za>
Subject: How can I improve low end torque?
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 15:04:13 +-200

Hi guys (and gals?)

Recently bought a '95 3.9L V8(8.13:1) Discovery.  My situation is that I =
stay in Pretoria/Johannesburg in South Africa which is located =
(1500meters above sea level.  Its not the top of K2 but high enough to =
effect a considerable loss of torque, especially between 1000 and =
2000rpm!  This is quite frustrating when you know that the combined =
effort of 3.9liters into 8 pots is not getting you anywhere!!  I am =
therefore investigating various options of addressing the "problem".

I don't want to go overboard, so I'm looking for a "middle of the road" =
solution. Any suggestions? I saw an advert for the Lichfield compressor =
(which qualifies for "overboard") but I am nonetheless intrigued.  Has =
anybody fitted this? Any idea how much it costs?  (I've faxed them twice =
but no response yet.)

I am also intrigued by so-called "lockers" or "Detroit lockers".  I =
found an article about them somewhere on the 'net but the article does =
not state how / where it is fitted.  Does fitting amount to fitting a =
different diff?  How much does it cost? Where can they be obtained from?

Thanks for any / all contributions
Philip Lochner
South Africa
Tel: +27 8255 70385

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 09:12:08 +0100
From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi)
Subject: Help me find a rattle

My '95 disco has developed a rattle that is hard to track down.  It appears
to be coming from under the truck, located near the driver's feet.  It does
not rattle while driving, just when in drive with your foot on the brake.
This makes it a bit difficult to diagnose because every time I get out to
find it, it stops!  Oh, did I also mention it is intermittant so it isn't
always there?  Seems to disappear everytime I have someone handy to help
with the diagnosis.

Suggestions for culprits appreciated.  Nothing is obviously loose in the
area the sound appears to be coming from, but maybe everything sounds like
it comes from under the drivers foot because the window is open.  (8^0
It's a metallic rattle, maybe like loose sheet metal of some sort.
Bob

p.s. - anyone around MA/ME/NH up for some offroad action on Sun or Mon of
memorial day weekend?

  rvirzi@gte.com             Think Globally. ===
  +1(617)466-2881                            === Act Locally!

------------------------------

From: "Ruffer, Richard" <rufferr@moodys.com>
Subject: XD Disco Info
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 09:46:00 EDT

Here's a clip from a LR press release on the XD Disco:

    The company has also announced a limited edition Discovery called
the XD.  Painted in eye-catching AA yellow, the special Discovery will
be equipped for heavy duty off-road use including skid plates, BF
Goodrich All-Terrain 225 tires, and a wrap around brush bar with Land
Rover driving lights.
    Ball also announced a new Camel Trophy-style competition for U.S.
Land Rover dealers called "Trek '96."  Using the specially outfitted
Discovery XDs, participants will have the opportunity to test their
off-road driving skills against one another, as well as their personal
stamina and resourcefulness.  An additional 250 of these vehicles will
be available in early 1997 with a target price of $36,000.

Rich Ruffer
Morristown, NJ
rruffer@interserv.com
'94 D90 #634

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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