The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 09:07:30 -0600
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>
Subject:  Road Trip

Okay, open forum for discussion here:

I'm taking a road trip this wknd, (John, I'm headed up to your neck
of the woods!) to Milwaukee. I'm leaving tomorrow (Thursday).

The Dilemma:
1. It is supposed to rain tomorrow here in Mpls.
2. I am supposed to get my surrey top today.
3. I am having two passengers, so one will have to ride in back.
4. If it is raining, will the person in back hate me for life if all
I have on is the surrey top with no windows?
5. My options:
a)Full bestop w/windows in.
b)Surrey top w/windows in
c) surrey top, no windows, wet friend in the back seat.

Let me know.
John, I'll email you later concerning your ad and the possibility of
hookin up this wknd while I'm in your fair city (that is, if you
haven't sold your D90 by then. If you have, I don't want anything to
do with you! (just kiddin!)).

------------------------------

From: Philip Lochner <plochner@icon.co.za>
Subject: Disco:Which tyres wear fastest?
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:42:25 +-200

----------
The V8i Discovery I bought had tyres with different levels of wear on =
front and rear.  I suspect this was due to the busted central diff.  (I =
attach a copy of the jucy bit of a letter I wrote to the local LR agent =
where I bought the vehicle - to cover me, for your AMUSEMENT)

What I would really like to know now is:

Which set of tyres on the Discovery wear fastest, front or rear?  =
Needless to say I would like to rotate the tyres such that all four =
reach the end of their usable life more or less at the same time.

Kind regards
Philip

COPY OF LETTER TO LOCAL LR AGENT:

I would like to express my concern about a problem that I think exists =
in the central diff.  The symptom of the problem is as follows:
When I turn sharply left or right (but mostly left) the vehicle would =
occasionally, but fairly infrequently make a loud "clang" noise with an =
associated viscous jerk which feels like it is generated somewhere in =
the drive train.  From within the car it is difficult to say where it =
comes from.  This happened on the Monday evening of the day when I took =
delivery, about two times Tuesday to Friday and three times at =
Dullstroom when I turned of to take fuel.  When I turned right at =
Dullstroom the car turned with such difficulty that even my wife noticed =
it without me saying anything.
By this time I was convinced that something was not right and was =
listening very closely to the sound from the drivetrain on the highway =
back to  Pretoria. By now I was also suspecting the central diff because =
I could hear no regular knocking from any of the front universals.  At =
times I thought I heard the car generate the kind of sound you would =
expect when driving a tarred road but with the diff lock engaged, but I =
am inexperienced with this vehicle and concede that it might have been =
road noise ...
On the way home I stopped at my father's house for tea and mentioned the =
above to him.  We decided to do some investigation.  Understanding the =
way normal differentials work we reasoned if front and central diff =
operate the way they should with diff lock disengaged,  that it should =
be possible to turn one front wheel and turn it freely in both =
directions if the other three wheels were firm on the ground and with =
the main transmission in neutral(high range).  We tested our theory by =
lifting the left front wheel and turned it forwards and backwards.  (The =
wheel pointed straight forward.)  It turned fairly smoothly in the =
forward direction but when I turned it backwards it would occasionally =
jerk but continue to turn and at other times it would just jerk to a =
dead stop.  My dad and I agreed that this could not be normal.
We also reasoned that with diff lock engaged, that it should not be =
possible to turn the wheel.  We tested this by engaging diff lock (the =
very first time this was done since getting the car), checking that the =
warning light came on, and by trying to turn the wheel.  The wheel could =
now not be turned in either direction as we thought. 
Having noted the emphasis and importance the owner's manual place on =
ensuring that the diff does not remain locked due to transmission =
wind-up, we checked that the warning switched off when disengaging the =
diff lock.  I could also simulate the wind-up condition simply by =
keeping tension on the front wheel while my dad disengaged the diff =
lock.  The diff lock warning light would remain on until I relaxed the =
front wheel when a click could be heard from somewhere from the =
transmission and the light would also turn off at the same time.  At no =
time did I notice the diff lock warning light come on since taking =
delivery.
My suspicion is that the diff lock mechanism does not disengage fully =
(even though the light is off), causing gears in the center diff to =
occasionally catch "tooth to tooth" which in turn would cause the =
tremendous jerking and the locking in the "wheel turning experiment".  =
End of extract.

As it was, one of the two shafts, on which the planetary gears run, =
broke in TWO places thus resulting in a chunk of metal drifting around =
loosely in the central diff, locking and unlocking it as it wedged =
itself between the sun and planetary gears.  LR replaced the transfer =
box under guarantee.  Philip is now happy.

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:10:27 -0400
Subject: Range Rover, Land Rover, Car, Truck?

>I always get this:

>Person: "Range Rover,ohhh,  those are nice.  Now who makes that,
>Toyota or Nissan?"
>Me: "Land Rover"
>Person: "Yea, but who makes it, GM, Ford, who?" . . .

What bothers me is that newspapers can't figure out what a Range Rover is.
 When I was looking for mine I had to look under 1. Trucks Range Rover, 2.
Trucks Land Rover. 3. 4x4 & SUV Range Rover, 4. 4x4 & SUV Land Rover, 5.
Automobiles Range Rover, and 6. Automobiles Land Rover.

A couple weeks ago I was looking in the San Jose Mercury News to help a
friend in San Diego find a Range Rover.  The paper had them in five different
spots in the classifieds (there were not any under Trucks Land Rover).  Why
can't the papers just put them all under 4x4 SUV Land Rover like they put all
Ford cars under Automobiles Ford.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:10:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Range Rover Discovery

>Aw hell, not even my dealership got it right.  In the letter sent out
>thanking me for buying a Disco the vice president of the dealership wrote,
>"I want to thank you for your recent purchase of a 1995 Range Rover
>Discovery."  That was the first sentence of the letter.  The first sentence
>of the next paragraph begins, "As a Range Rover owner..."

>I will add that this dealership is one of the least loved in the San
>Francisco Bay Area because of its seeming ambivalence to Land Rovers.  

I was in this unnamed San Francisco British car dealership (looking at the
new models after buying an oil filter) and I heard one of the sales guys
telling a young couple that the Range Rover was made by a different company
than the Discovery.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 12:10:05 -0400
Subject: EFI Light

>Question: The EFI dash light came on just as I shut down when the engine 
>began to overheat. Did I burn up an oxygen sensor? What does running 
>with a bad O2 sensor do to performance? What all does the EFI light 
>diagnose? 

The EFI light will come on when the ECU detects that it can not maintain the
correct air/fuel mixture due to a fault in one of the following:
Air Flow Sensor
Lambda Sensor (AKA O2 Sensor)
Water temp sensor
Throttle Potentiometer

The Range Rover did not get a fault code read out until '90 when it came with
a Lucas 14CUX ECU.  To test the components on older RR's you will need a shop
manual.

The overheating may have set off the EFI light on your RR without any of the
components failing.  To reset the EFI light disconnect the battery (if you
have an anti-theft radio make sure you have the code) for about 5min.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Walter C. Swain" <wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Range Rover, Land Rover, Car, Truck?

On Wed, 22 May 1996 KKelly6788@aol.com wrote:

<snip>

> A couple weeks ago I was looking in the San Jose Mercury News to help a
> friend in San Diego find a Range Rover.  The paper had them in five different
> spots in the classifieds (there were not any under Trucks Land Rover).  Why
> can't the papers just put them all under 4x4 SUV Land Rover like they put all
> Ford cars under Automobiles Ford.

Look at it this way; if everybody including the semi-literate classified 
ad clerks knew enough about Land Rovers to properly pigeon hole them, 
they would certainly loose some of their cachet.  I think the seller
of a vehicle has some say as to what section of the classifieds their ad 
goes into, so the mix may reflect owner confusion as well.

It would be nice if the Land Rover sales force wasn't a major source of
disinformation.  It's the age old question:  "Are they doing it on 
purpose, or are they just completely incompetent?"  The answer depends on 
your general social perspective and predisposition for subscribing to 
conspiracy theories.

Rgds,

Walt          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
              * Walter C. Swain         | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us       *
              * Davis Community Network |                               *
              * Davis, California       | 1988 Range Rover- "Lady Jane" *
              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 96 13:51:09 -0400
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re: Road Trip

Robert Kolander asks;

>the dilemma:
> It is supposed to rain tomorrow here in Mpls.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> If it is raining, will the person in back hate me for life if all
>I have on is the surrey top with no windows?

Answer YES! YES! YES! unless a very good spirited person. The back gets 
totally drenched from the side and also from water wraping around the rear 
of the surrey and coming into the vehicle.

> My options:
a)Full bestop w/windows in.
b)Surrey top w/windows in

Rob no way to install your windows with a surrey! You can  run with the 
full bestop/windows removed but bring them with you. If the weather gets 
bad put the windows back on. Close to a surrey and you get to keep your 
friend :>.

Cheers,
Barnett

-------------
Original Text
From: Robert Kolander <kolanrj@gw.startribune.com>, on 5/22/96 9:07 AM:
Okay, open forum for discussion here:

I'm taking a road trip this wknd, (John, I'm headed up to your neck
of the woods!) to Milwaukee. I'm leaving tomorrow (Thursday).

The Dilemma:
1. It is supposed to rain tomorrow here in Mpls.
2. I am supposed to get my surrey top today.
3. I am having two passengers, so one will have to ride in back.
4. If it is raining, will the person in back hate me for life if all
I have on is the surrey top with no windows?
5. My options:
a)Full bestop w/windows in.
b)Surrey top w/windows in
c) surrey top, no windows, wet friend in the back seat.

Let me know.
John, I'll email you later concerning your ad and the possibility of
hookin up this wknd while I'm in your fair city (that is, if you
haven't sold your D90 by then. If you have, I don't want anything to
do with you! (just kiddin!)).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 16:01:54 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: Re: Overheating nightmare

Kevin,

Thanks for the information from your buyers' guide, as well as the info 
on the EFI light. And thanks to everyone else who has passed on some 
really useful information.

Update on the overheating nightmare, day 4:
-------------------------------------------
Things are looking up. The engine appears to run fine. The temp gauge is 
running in the normal zone. There is no sign of water in the oil or 
exhaust gas in the coolant. I was worried about the head gasket for the 
first couple of days because I seemed to be losing coolant and thought 
maybe it was blowing out the overflow hose due to a leaking head gasket. 
But my current theory is that there was just plain old air in the system 
that hadn't worked itself out. There has been no sign of leaks or drop 
in the coolant level in the past 24 hours.

My next steps are to test the compression, change the oil and restore 
the proper coolant mix. 

***Can anyone pass on the compression specs and cooling system capacity? 
I assume a 50/50 antifreeze mix is right.***

If it does turn out that I've avoided damage, I'll attribute it to the 
good care the engine has received till now. I've never missed an oil 
change at 3,000 miles and use Castrol GTX. I was about 1,200 miles into 
the oil, so it was in good condition and in fact still looks o.k. but 
I'm going to change it out anyway.

Thanks again everyone, and whatever you do, don't overheat your Rover!

Shaun Carrigan
'88 RR

------------------------------

From: PZavaletta@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:53:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Range Rover Discovery

>I was in this unnamed San Francisco British car dealership (looking at the
>new models after buying an oil filter) and I heard one of the sales guys
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>than the Discovery.
>Kevin Kelly

Kevin, might this be the one on Van Ness by any chance? 

Peter M. Zavaletta
'95 County Classic Alpine White ('Winston')

------------------------------

From: g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)
Subject: Installinf Safari Gard rock sliders on Disco
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 23:28:40 GMT

I just received my rock sliders from Safari Gard. Well timed since my
father-in-law unintenionally tried to break the sill protectors last
weekend. They don't come with any instructions or attachment devices
so I need someone's knowledge to give me comfort.

How do I get the old sills off?

How to do I mount the rock sliders? I don't see or feel any access to
the other side of the holes so nuts look difficult.

Thanks in advance.

[Waving at all Discos and Defenders and Series and some RR - still
getting very few responses.]

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 14:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Brabyn <brabyn@skivs.ski.org>
Subject: Re: Tools 'n' such

If nobody's replied to this, I'd have a stab -- 

I'd carry a fairly cpmplete set of tools but not on the engine rebuild
scale. A typical decent size tool box full of tools should be about right;
don't forget both metric and SAE sockets as a lot of old bits and pieces
on the new vehicles use SAE threads. a 1 1/16 socket for the lug nuts is
good, and an electrical tester is handy in view of all those electrical
bits!  Also a tire repair kit and a big (15 inch) crescent for those
miscellaneous oversized nuts. The workshop manual is a given for a vehicle
this complex, as is a list of dealers and Land Rover parts suppliers to
call up when needed! 

For spares, I carry a coil, ignition leads, distributor cap and rotor arm,
fuel filter, hoses and belts, spare relays, thermostat, a spark plug, and
2 spare tires. Also such things as ATF, oil, antifreeze, and octane
booster (since many out of the way places don't sell super unleaded). 

Aside from all this, I'd pay heed to Roger Sinassohn's list promulgated a 
while ago -- putting first aid and survival equipment, water and food 
ahead of tools and spares!

I don't know where to stow the hi-lift except on a roof rack! 

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

On Sun, 19 May 1996, Alexander P. Grice wrote:

> I posted this a while back, just as the Major was starting his sabatical, 
> but it apparently got lost in the ether, so once again, what tools/spares 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
> there is a curb or something to reflect the noise back.  In the 88 with tire 
> song, gear whine and engine noise, I never would have heard it.  Thoughts?

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Tools 'n' such
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:32:56 -0700

John, 
I sure hope you are behind me on a trail if my Disco breaks down, with
that collection of odds & ends!

I mounted the Hi-Lift on the Thule Roof rack bars today, and it fits
like it was made for it. Very Secure. I have a u-bolt mounted on each
cross bar, with about 1" of threads sticking up. The holes of the
hi-lift slip over the exposed bolts and the jack is held on by 2
wing-nuts and washers on each u-bolt (total of 4 wing-nuts + 2 spares in
the tool box -- providing some redundancy for when I drop one or two in
the mud :-o)

I'll just tie the shovel to the hi-lift with a rubber bungee since, if I
need the hi-lift, chances are good, I'll need the shovel. Best of all, I
no longer have to open the back door and dig through all the other junk
to get to the hi-lift & shovel.

-- Bob W
'95 LR Discovery
>----------
>From: 	John Brabyn[SMTP:brabyn@skivs.ski.org]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Cc: 	rro@playground.sun.com
>Subject: 	Re: Tools 'n' such

<list of goodies snipped>

>I don't know where to stow the hi-lift except on a roof rack! 
>Cheers
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>John Brabyn
>89RR

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 96 20:53 EST
From: jhaskell@iquest.net (Jon R. Haskell)
Subject: Parts Compatability 3.9L Petrol

Given the lack of LR Dealers in Mexico/Central America and my constant
concern of engine failure when south of the border; I am wondering if there
are some General Motor parts which could be substituted.  eg. water pump,
alternator, etc. Tho I carry extra parts, you have to draw the line at some
point. If you have experience in this area, I would appreciate your comments.

Additionally, has anyone done a  300Tdi or Cummins diesel conversion in a
Discovery or D90

NOTE TO AMATEUR RADIO OPERATORS:  On chance you are considering installing
HF SSB equipment in your Discovery, I have found that the RFI is very
tolerable on all frequencies. Frankly much better than in my former SUV's
(explorer, fj--60) Also, on board electronics seem well shielded as I
transmit 200 watts on peak and have noticed anomolies with the truck. I have
not installed any equipment in the  D90SW  
kb9cml 14.300

Jon Haskell
Indianapolis

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 18:19:34 -0400
From: "Gary F. Mead" <garymead@mail.microserve.net>

I am about to replace my efi/ coolant temp sensor. I noticed that besides
being in an awkward spot, it is nylon or plastic or something lucas-esque.
What is the proper tool to use and replace it? I have visions of the plastic
becoming rounded, or snapping off.
Figured I'd ask a stupid question before I had pieces of RR spread all over
the driveway while the mosquitos are biting and the sun has set
Thanks for the help

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:33:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: rovah@agate.net (John Cassidy)
Subject: Name for New Addition!

First, I want to thank you all for the lovely, heartfelt name suggestions
for the new addition to the family! ;-)  His name is Cullen Bejian Cassidy.
Cullen meaning "handsome," in Irish and Bejian being my wife's maiden
name(Armenian).  Quite a mixture of cultures!  Thanks again for all the
kind notes!  My wife really was happily surprised to see the stack of
messages that I printed out and brought to the hospital.  We'll be putting
them in a scrapbook for Cullen to read when he's older.  I have no idea how
I'll explain to him what it all means! ;-)

Cheers!  John

John Cassidy
Bangor, Maine USA

2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover, 1966 Series IIA

------------------------------

From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" <a-robw@MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: RE: Name for New Addition!
Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:43:11 -0700

I'm sure when you give him the vintage 17 year old Discovery on his 16th
birthday, it'll all make sense. :-)
Congratulations!

-- Bob W.
>----------
>From: 	rovah@agate.net[SMTP:rovah@agate.net]
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)]
>Bangor, Maine USA
>2 Wheels: Ducati M900, Velocette Thruxton, Moto Morini 350S
>4 Wheels: 1995 Discovery, 1987 Range Rover, 1966 Series IIA

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 19:47:27 -0700
From: "John C. White, III" <jcwhite3@well.com>
Subject: Re: Range Rover Discovery

At 12:10 22.05.96 -0400, KKelly6788@aol.com wrote:
>>Aw hell, not even my dealership got it right.  In the letter sent out
>>thanking me for buying a Disco the vice president of the dealership wrote,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>telling a young couple that the Range Rover was made by a different company
>than the Discovery.
>Kevin Kelly

Obviously that salesman was not properly trained, or at least he hasn't read
any of the letters to new Discovery owners his boss has been sending out.  

What a bunch of bozos and snobs!  I hope that word on this outfit gets back
to LRNA because that bunch really does the marque a disservice.  All they're
interested in is the carriage trade in Rollers and Jaguars.  They'll stoop
to selling mallwagons to yuppies only because there's money it.  I would
have told LRNA about this (barely) unnamed distributor of British motor cars
which is quite near a Cadillac dealership and a Mercedes dealership myself,
but the letter didn't arrive until after the phone call from LRNA thanking
me for buying its product.  Subsequent contact with LRNA has only been to
ask about how warranty work went.

Maybe I should see if I can find a piece of land in this town big enough to
hold a Centre, and get a franchise.  One would think the market is here to
support another dealership.

Cheers!
John
'95 Discovery
San Francisco, California

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 22:41:05 -0500
From: Jeff & Laura Kessler <lmkessler@srnet.com>
Subject: Re: Overheating nightmare

At 04:01 PM 5/22/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Kevin,
>Thanks for the information from your buyers' guide, as well as the info 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 36 lines)]
>Shaun Carrigan
>'88 RR
Shaun

The cooling system capacity is 12 US quarts and should be a 50% solution of
antifreeze.  The 88 RR owners manual notes that antifreeze should be at
least 25% "...otherwise engine damage is liable to occur."

I remember concerns during the 1970's with the antifreeze mix in the
aluminum RR V8 and as I remember, some thought that a 70% mix of antifreeze
was preferred. But that was 20+ years ago.

Looking in the owners and work shop manuals, I can not find any spec for
compression tests.  Last fall prior to purchasing our RR, I checked the
compression and the 8 cylinders were from a low of 155 lbs to a high of 169 lbs.
That was at about 68000 miles.

Jeff Kessler
1988 Range Rover
Newport NH USA   603-863-7883

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 May 96 22:33 EST
From: jhaskell@iquest.net (Jon R. Haskell)
Subject: Correction on RFI Posting

On a previous posting, I made reference to using a 200 watt HF SSB radio in
my Discovery. In re-reading the message, I noticed that I had forgot to
insert the word "no" when making reference to RFI problems. Actually, I
percieve the Discovery's electronics to be well shielded and not subject to
high output RF devices when properly grounded. 
Jon Haskell kb9cml
Indianapolis

------------------------------

From: PurnellJE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 00:46:31 -0400
Subject: Re: D90 Camshaft and Check Engine Light

In a message dated 96-05-21 21:38:59 EDT, you write:

>When I 
>told my mechanic all this he didn't think the light was a big deal and said
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>said. Of 
>course, it hasn't come on since.

Rich, my 94 D90, #1336, has a readout for those pesky MILs.  (malf indicator
lamp).  Rob L. told me where it is:  remove rightmost plastic coverette
(doncha love those little thingees) and look for a cigarette pack size black
plastic box with a dark red window.  If your dash  MIL is on, that box should
display a number with big red LEDs.  (I know, old technology, but it is
Lucas).  Then you'll know the code.  I bet your truck has it too.  

Check if it comes on next time.  Then we can armchair diagnose your
problem... ya know, like we always do.

John.

------------------------------

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