The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

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From: crash@merl.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:05:53 -0400
Subject: Re: synthetic lube in a Disco

Sally Xray (94 Disco, 49Kmile) has been using the following:

Engine----------------- Mobil-1 synthetic 10W30 since new - 2000 miles 
Transmission----------- Mobil-1 synthetic ATF - since 30K service
Transfer case-------\
front & rear diffs----- Mobil-1 75W90EP gear lube - since 30K service
swivel balls--------/
prop shaft U-joints -\
prop shaft splines ---- Mobil-1 EP wheel and bearing grease
various others-------/

I had a very minor engine oil leak, which cleared right up when
I snugged down the bolts on the oil pan.  (we're talking teaspoon-a-month
leak rates here).  No other problems.

The only dinosaur-oil in her now as far as I know is the power steering
fluid, and I'm not sure if I'm increasing or decreasing risk by 
changing *that* over (especially if I get dirt into the system.
Any commentary?

	-Bill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:33:08 -0600
From: William Owen <IB011CA@smtpaoc.tsc.state.tn.us>
Subject:  New to this list... -Reply

>Are there places in the states that will do mail
order and have better prices than the dealer, or is
the dealer about the best for some stuff

There are several very good companies which do
mail order.  Rovers North is probably the best for
off road equip like winches, etc.  Their number is
802-879-0032.  Their catalog has tons of great
toys to look at. I have also had good luck with
Atlantic British at 800-533-2210.  Both RN and
AB have been great at over the phone advice and
sell parts for generally much less than the dealer. 
I'd get a catalog from both right away.

There are other mail order companies which I have
heard may be cheaper that RN or AB but I have no
experience with their service and don't have their
numbers right now.  These include British Pacific
and Europarts.

Even if you don't do your own work, often you can
order genuine parts by mail and have a local
mechanic do the work at a fraction of the total
dealer costs, especially things like brakes, springs,
pumps, filters, etc.

Some Rover parts also have generic (ie:NAPA)
equivalents which someone on the list is compiling
a list of.

Congrats on your "new" RR and good luck.

William Owen
90 RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:37:33 -0400
From: Bill Skidmore <skidmore@mitre.org>
Subject: Re: It's officially a "clonk"

Robert Watson (CNA) wrote:
> Lately, while driving "Willy" around I've noticed a clunk in the
> drive-line especially when decellerating or while accellerating then
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)]
> LRO, a.k.a. Series list with all the leaks, gearbox, electrical and axle
> problems. It would seem the CSO's and the LRO's have more in common than
> not :-)
Bob;

My D90 (Nbr 761) had the same problem diagnosed last fall.  The dealer 
ordered the gear, and it finally arrived after three weeks (all that 
time I was without the truck driving a Pontiac!).  Upon closer 
inspection, the gear that was sent was the wrong one!  I was given the 
option of having the gear reordered, or having the entire transfer case 
replaced!  You can guess which one I opted for.  

I just had the truck in to replace the synchro gears, and the dealer 
noticed that the serial number on the tranny was in the range of those 
that were experiencing abnormal wear on the main shaft and which were 
supposed to be fixed under warranty.  I wound up getting an entirely 
rebuilt transmission this time around!  At this rate, I should be 
getting the engine or the diffs rebuilt in about 6 mos!
-- 
Bill Skidmore
Senior Network Systems Engineer
The MITRE Corp.
145 Wyckoff Rd.
Eatontown NJ 07724
skidmore@mitre.org

------------------------------

From: nswilson@mcs.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:40:19 -0500
Subject: RE: DEALERS

As long as we're on the subject of dealer service, I've never been 
pleased with Knauz of Lake Forest's (Chicago area) service department. I 
was told that you can expect better service and sharper techs at Land 
Rover Centers--that is dealers that have been given the status of 
"center" by LRNA. Any experience with that?
Also, when looking for a mechanic recently, I called Rover's North, and 
they provided me with a list of shops in my area that had been buying a 
good amount of parts from them--a sign they work on LR. The guy I chose 
from this list was very smart, and much cheaper than the dealer (found 
the source of an ABS warning light and extinguished it in 45 minutes, 
while dealers' quote involved "Keeping the car all day, we might find it 
in 2 or 3 hours, or maybe longer").

NEAL WILSON 
91 Range Rover
Chicago

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:35:57 -0700
From: Rick Larson <rlarson@lsil.com>
Subject: Safari Gard Susp. (was Re.....)

Pics:

Pre Kit:

http://www.fluentnet.com/lr/safari_gaurd/40.jpg

Post Kit:

http://www.fluentnet.com/lr/safari_gaurd/41.jpg

Pretty sure because 40.jpg has the stock rear bumper.  It was 
removed the same time I had the drop kit installed.  Looks like
my bumperetts in 41.jpg.  Suspension is otherwise stock except
for the removal of the sway bars.

Unfortunately the pictures aren't of the same obstacle.  Drop
kit does add 2" of travel.  Usually when I'm that crossed up the
ARB's are engaged anyway.  Sway bar removal made a much bigger
difference.

I noticed the lack of sway bars on the road but actually prefer the
ride.  Haven't noticed the drop kit on the road.  

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:46:24 -0700
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: New to this list...

Alan DuBoff asked:

> Are there places in the states that will do mail order and have better
> prices than the dealer, or is the dealer about the best for some stuff?

William Owen already mentioned Rovers North, but I thought I'd point out their 
Web site at http://www.roversnorth.com/. Also have a look at 
http://www.OverlandMotors.com/ for Overland Motors. I read in the June issue of 
Land Rover Owner International that their LRO shop is concocting a Web site, but 
the searches I've done haven't turned it up yet. They don't sell parts, but they 
do have cool stickers, shirts, repro posters, etc.

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery, actually still running at 15500 miles

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:58:30 -0700
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Roll over angle testing ( NEW PICS TOO! )

barnett childress wrote:

> I just received my diff gards and air rock sliders yesterday. The build
> quality looks very high. Unfortunately Greg didn't send me any of the air
> lines, fittings, or HDW to install the sliders! :<

Alright, that's it! I'm finally going to get Safari Gard to make me some diff guards. 
I'm always forming a mental picture when I'm off-road of the diff housings breaking 
open like eggs and bleeding a trail of 90wt leading down to the spot where my rusting 
and abandoned Discovery lies stranded.

Barnett, what are *air* rock sliders? 

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i, restorable condition, mostly original

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:58:25 -0700
From: Rick Larson <rlarson@lsil.com>
Subject: Re: New to this list...

> I can only find many parts at my local Land Rover dealer in San Jose,
> CA. They are friendly and helpful, but prices are not great.

There is a list of Vendors at

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.5.parts.html

While this list is generally dedicated to Series LR parts the bigger
suppliers generally are happy to help RR owners.

I've had good luck with 

British Pacific in Bubank, CA
	1-800-554-4133

and 

Rovers North
	(802) 879-0032

Officially Rovers North is the only US company (other than LRNA) to get
late model genuine parts directly from LR.  The others will generally
fill your genuine parts order at a LR Dealer they have made a deal 
with.  I've found that LR San Jose will often give discounts on 
parts prices that are comparable to the aftermarket suppliers.  You
do have to order quite a bit (you will) and get to know the parts
guys.

British Pacific, in particular has been very good about finding
quality alternatives to genuine parts.  (often OEM)

Good Luck

-Rick  	

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:02:11 -0600
From: Chris Brosious <brosious@pogo.den.mmc.com>
Subject: Re: Strange Black Wires

barnett childress wrote:
> Chris,
> Are you sure that the rear diff is vented to the engine compartment? I was
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Cheers,
> Barnett

Barnett,
good question I'll tell you what I know.  Once again I was very tired 
(way to much O/T this week) when I was under the Beastie looking at said 
wires, there are 3 of them, I just assumed that the tranny had one vent 
and the other vent tube heading off in that direction continued to the 
rear diff, maybe the transfer has a vent too.  I will trace each to 
their respective termiantion and get back to you.

Chris
'94 D90

------------------------------

From: Sanna@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:07:31 -0400
Subject: Anybody Need RR Mats?

Well I'm signing off on Annabelle today.  When I drown her I pulled all 
the carpets (except cargo) & mats out and dried them.  These are the only 
left over parts I'll have, and they're in pretty good condition 
(unfortunately, my new RR is grey/grey and these carpets & mats are 
beige).  So I'll sell all to the highest bidder.

The condition of the carpets (these are the ones with the rubber edge 
that screw under the door sills) is very good, maybe even great.  I have 
the two front and one passenger rear.  The mats are the full-size, extra 
thick ones (the driver's has a double layer of carpet under the heel) and 
their condition is good with two exceptions.  The passenger rear is 
perfect except for a burn mark I made with a hot shop light, and the 
driver's is good with some wear to the heel carpet.   I'm doing this from 
memory, but I think it's all pretty accurate.

So bid high & bid often.  

Tony

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:11:28 -0400
Subject: Re: Extended Warrantee

>My 95 disco is coming up to 20,000 so far pretty trouble free miles  
>and I am thinking about buying an extended warrantee. Any ideas on  
>where to get one cheaper than the dealer or other experiences with  
>them would be most appreciated. Thanks. John Friedman

>The real, and only difference between the LRO and the CSO lists IMHO are 
>the warrantees for the newer Rovers. I think I'll break down and buy that 
>extended warranty for mine. Only one (MAJOR) problem and it will be well 
>worth the investment. :<

>From what I have heard from my dealer LRMW, you can buy the extended 
>warranty anytime up until the original warranty expires @ 42K miles.
>The price is rather high about $1,600 if I'm not mistaken for the LR 
>extended warranty

>I just got off the phone with Bill Frank of LRWM.  He said that ITT used to
>write LR extended warranties but the sold the business to a German Bank.
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Continental, I think.  They will be offering a 7/85 warranty in the $1800
>range.

Extended Warrantees are not an "investment" they are a suckers bet.  My
roommate in college sold new cars and he would always be in a good mood when
he came home after selling an extended warrantee because he got a 50%
commission on them.  He made more commission selling an extended warrantee
than he made selling most cars.

An extended warrantee is really just an insurance policy, a very expensive
insurance policy.  Very few people come out ahead with the warrantees.  If a
warrantee is for 7 years or 100,000 miles and costs $1,600-$3,000 your actual
cost at the end of  7 years will be $3,212-$6,023 assuming you can invest the
$1,600-$2,400 today in something that will average 10% over the next 5 years.

If you can't do any work yourself and want to feel safe the extended
warrantee may provide piece of mind, but remember you will most likely spend
more money for the warrantee than it will pay out, or you may get two new
engines and three trannys, but you could also spend $1 in the lottery and win
millions.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

From: KKelly6788@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:12:36 -0400
Subject: Deep Sand

>What is the proper tire pressure for deep sand at the beach and what
>gear/diff  selection would be appropriate?  

I run about 12psi on the sand, but remember a stock 4x4 with stock tires can
not drive in deep soft beach sand, you will make it through short sections of
it with momentum, but you can not drive in it without paddle tires.  Remember
to think about tides when driving on the beach.  I have seen many trucks
drive out on to the hard sand of the Sea of Cortez in Mexico when the tide is
out, get stuck and watch their truck fill with salt water as the tide comes
in.

Kevin Kelly

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:15:06 -0600
From: Chris Brosious <brosious@pogo.den.mmc.com>
Subject: Re: DEALERS

Since we are talking dealers, I am absolutly 100% satisfied with the 
folks at the Co Springs, CO dealership, especially the parts and service 
people.  They consistently have very reasonable prices on parts, 
sometimes even better than the mail order guys, they are very 
knowledgeable and definitely go out of their way to make sure I'm happy 
with everything.  When I had my D90 in for the 15k service and Safari 
Rack install, their service even fixed a couple of minor items I had 
forgotten about.  These guys know Rovers and love to help their 
customers.

Chris Brosious
'94 D90

------------------------------

From: g@ix.netcom.com (Gerald)
Subject: Re: Roll over angle testing ( NEW PICS TOO! )
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 16:17:48 GMT

On Fri, 28 Jun 96 7:14:27 -0400, you wrote:

. . . .
>I just received my diff gards and air rock sliders yesterday. The build 
>quality looks very high. Unfortunately Greg didn't send me any of the air 
>lines, fittings, or HDW to install the sliders! :<
. . . .

Interesting, My rock sliders (non air) did not including installation
either when they came, Greg offered to send it and loan me the Riv-nut
tool, but I found the stuff locally. (Harvey's Hardware in Needham
even rented me the tool, Tric Nut brand.)

--
Gerald
g@ix.netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:27:46 -0400
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: re: Safari Gard Susp. (was Re.....)

Rick,
Thanks for the info. I prefer the ride without the swaybars also, seems 
smoother on road, and deffinitely is better off road. I ordered the drop 
kit from Greg today.
Cheers,
Barnett
-------------
Original Text
From: Rick Larson <rlarson@lsil.com>, on 6/28/96 8:35 AM:
Pics:

Pre Kit:

http://www.fluentnet.com/lr/safari_gaurd/40.jpg

Post Kit:

http://www.fluentnet.com/lr/safari_gaurd/41.jpg

Pretty sure because 40.jpg has the stock rear bumper.  It was 
removed the same time I had the drop kit installed.  Looks like
my bumperetts in 41.jpg.  Suspension is otherwise stock except
for the removal of the sway bars.

Unfortunately the pictures aren't of the same obstacle.  Drop
kit does add 2" of travel.  Usually when I'm that crossed up the
ARB's are engaged anyway.  Sway bar removal made a much bigger
difference.

I noticed the lack of sway bars on the road but actually prefer the
ride.  Haven't noticed the drop kit on the road.  

Richard Larson
LSI Logic Corporation
(408) 433-7149

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M+B!)('!R969E<B!T:&4@<FED92!W:71H;W5T('1H92!S=V%Y8F%R<R!A;'-O
M+"!S965M<R!S;6]O=&AE<B!O;B!R;V%D+"!A;F0@9&5F9FEN:71E;'D@:7,@
M8F5T=&5R(&]F9B!R;V%D+B!)(&]R9&5R960@=&AE(&1R;W`@:VET(&9R;VT@
M1W)E9R!T;V1A>2X*0VAE97)S+`I"87)N971THP`#`+L`G``!``$````$``$`
M`0`!`+L`````````./\```````"0`0``````````0V]U<FEE<B!.97<`````
M`````````````````````````````0`!``8``0`'`*P``0"M`+0``0"U`+P`
M````````````````9``!X`$!P`,!H`4!@`<!8`D!0`L!(`T!``\!X!`!P!(!
.H!0!@!8!8!@!0!IE``!R
`
end

------------------------------

From: GElam30092@aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 13:33:26 -0400
Subject: Confused

Dave signs "Dave (I'm confused... but then, I'm used to it!) Brown"

Yes, Dave.  We noticed!    &-)

BTW, are you going to Crested Butte?  Sound like we're forming a caravan
headed that way from Tuscon/Phoenix/Flagstaff.......
Gerry

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 13:33:28 -0400
From: "barnett childress" <barnett=childress%Eng%EMCHOP1@fishbowl02.lss.emc.com>
Subject: Re: Roll over angle testing ( NEW PICS TOO! )

Chris asks;
>Barnett, what are *air* rock sliders? 
They are the same rock sliders that Greg normally offers but are welded and 
tested to be air tight. You run a line from you're air compressor (in my 
case the ARB for the air lockers), to the tanks. This gives you a lot of 
extra air capacity. The compressor doesn't have to cycle on as often and 
it's easier to air you're tires back up again. Seemed like a good idea to 
me as it doesn't require any additional space.
Cheers,
Barnett
-------------
Original Text
From: Christopher Boese <cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us>, on 6/28/96 8:58 
AM:
barnett childress wrote:

> I just received my diff gards and air rock sliders yesterday. The build
> quality looks very high. Unfortunately Greg didn't send me any of the air
> lines, fittings, or HDW to install the sliders! :<

Alright, that's it! I'm finally going to get Safari Gard to make me some 
diff guards. 
I'm always forming a mental picture when I'm off-road of the diff housings 
breaking 
open like eggs and bleeding a trail of 90wt leading down to the spot where 
my rusting 
and abandoned Discovery lies stranded.

Barnett, what are *air* rock sliders? 

-- 
Christopher Boese
County of San Bernardino, California
Information Services, Information Systems Security Office
'95 beluga black Discovery V8i, restorable condition, mostly original

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 11:39:29 PDT
From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff)
Subject: Re: New to this list... -Reply

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:33:08 -0600 you wrote:

>There are several very good companies which do
>mail order.  Rovers North is probably the best for
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)]
>sell parts for generally much less than the dealer. 
>I'd get a catalog from both right away.

Thanks a bunch William! I'll get both those catalogs.

>Even if you don't do your own work, often you can
>order genuine parts by mail and have a local
>mechanic do the work at a fraction of the total
>dealer costs, especially things like brakes, springs,
>pumps, filters, etc.

I actually saved money by buying the rotors from the
dealer and having someone else install them (with pads).

>Some Rover parts also have generic (ie:NAPA)
>equivalents which someone on the list is compiling
>a list of.

Great, I'll keep my eyes open for it.

>Congrats on your "new" RR and good luck.

Not really "new" but I sure like it.

Alan DuBoff
aland@ibm.net
Moorigami, Moore 24 #77

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 11:45:32 PDT
From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff)
Subject: Re: New to this list...

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:45:34 -0500 you wrote:

>I own an '88 (130K mi) also and have lots of stories to share. I suggest 
>buying dealer parts only as a last resort. There are several decent 
>mail-order suppliers in the U.S. and in some cases it is cheaper to 
>order direct from the U.K.

Yes, I didn't know and did for a couple items (service manual and
binder, and rotors).

>The best case of all is to find non-LR parts that are identical to 
>original equipment and save big.

My eyes are open, and I have put the Carter fuel pump into my mental
database, do you have a part # for that, I'll just mark it in the
service manual.

>Check out Bill Caloccia's Land Rover Web Site. Get the Land Rover FAQ, 
>which lists recommended parts suppliers.

Yes, got that stuff, lots of great stuff there.

>I know there is a West Coast vendor--think it's called Pacific British. 

Yes, I got another reply with their phone number, I'll get their
catalog.

>Watch out for, let's see... temp and oil pressure and fuel sensors, 
>power steering leaks, roof leaks (plugged sunroof drains), worn 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
>electrical nuisances. If your alternator goes bad, rebuild it (new ones 
>cost $400+).

I have a bad speedo right now, haven't looked into it much. Do you
know how much a new one will cost ? Is the cable likely to go bad ?

Are you pretty happy with your '88 'rover ?

Alan DuBoff
aland@ibm.net
Moorigami, Moore 24 #77

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:52:37 -0700
From: parch@smmff.com (Paul Archibald)
Subject: Re: The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

Alan, before you spend the money on Brake rotors from the dealer,  there
are quite a few OEM and aftermarket parts catalogues with much cheeper
prices.
for the brake rotors, I would call Special Interest Car parts, 1(800)
555-7496...... they have the lowest price in the US on RR rotors. I just
recieved their latest advert. yesterday and their rotors are still on sale
for somewhere in the $32.00-$50.00 range depending on if you have vented or
non vented rotors. I seem to rember that yours are non-vented as my '87
has. I bought a complete set of four a couple of months ago as mine are
showing 'a little wear' at 157,000 miles, they are Brembo rotors which is
OEM, but don't have a LR stamping anywhere. At the time they didn't have
break pads in stock so I have not installed them yet.

>I'm new to this list. I got an '88 Range Rover a few months back and
>wanting to learn some more about them, in the event I need to work on
>it.
 buyin the manuals is the way to go, now you can read through and get a
better understanding of your beast, and when something happens you will be
able to see what is wrong. Then of course if you can't figure it out you
get on the list and ask us. If someone doesn't have the full answer, I am
sure you can be pointed in the right direction.

>I can only find many parts at my local Land Rover dealer in San Jose,
>CA. They are friendly and helpful, but prices are not great.
that is why there are mail order catalogues-see below

>So I go to get the brakes worked on and naturally they can't get
>rotors, I have to end up buying them from the dealer anyway. I don't
>mind getting parts at the dealer, like the rotors seemed like well
>built items.
see above

>Are there places in the states that will do mail order and have better
>prices than the dealer, or is the dealer about the best for some stuff
>?
Call of these and get on their catalogue list
Rovers North---(802)879-0032 + web page
Brittish Pacific---(800)554-4133
Atlantic Brittish---(518) 664-6169  or (800)533-2210
 Special Interest Car parts---(800) 555-7496 (mainly mg, triumph,& Jag, but
growing RR parts)
also try Euro-Parts web page,

Paul Archibald
Parch@smmff.com
(510)353-1320 or wk. (408)487-1336
'58 88" RHD 2-litre
"87 Range-Rover-156,000 miles-going strong (Squeak)  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 11:52:47 PDT
From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff)
Subject: Re: New RR Owner

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:12:55 -0400 you wrote:

>Glad to here about a new RR owner.  Ask me if you have any RR questions, I
>know quite a bit about them.  Do you want info on the west coast LR list?

Sure, what is the list ? I bought my 'rover from a used car dealer in
Colma, pretty close to where you are at. Shortly after I bought it I
had it break down on 280 headed north just above 92 (at the rest
site). I got AAA to haul my boat up to the St. Francis YC by the Gate
and my 'rover to a place in Burlingame. Turned out it was only an
alternator belt...(but I slapped my head after looking in there again
and seeing the alternator on the opposite side as the battery...knew I
needed a service manual...;-)

>P.S. do you a haul a ski boat?  I am going to be skiing up at Lake Berryessa
>this weekend

No, I race sailboats. I have a Moore 24, a small 24' ULDB built in
Santa Cruz. Our Nationals are being held up at Lake Tahoe next week
over 4th of July weekend (should be a zoo, but it's the first time for
my wife and kids to camp, so I want to go anyway).

Alan DuBoff
aland@ibm.net
Moorigami, Moore 24 #77

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:29:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dixon Kenner <dkenner@emr1.NRCan.gc.ca>
Subject: Re: New to this list...

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Christopher Boese wrote:

> http://www.OverlandMotors.com/ for Overland Motors. I read in the June 
> issue of Land Rover Owner International that their LRO shop is concocting 
> a Web site, but the searches I've done haven't turned it up yet. They 
> don't sell parts, but they do have cool stickers, shirts, repro posters, etc.

	They can be hit via the FAQ under Land Rover Owner Int'l at 

	http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.5.publications.html

	or if you want to go direct: http://web.idirect.com/~lroshop/
	
	Their site is still evolving.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:48:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Douglas C. Marbourg" <marbourg@lanl.gov>
Subject: Re: Safari Gard Susp. (was Re.....)

>Post Kit:
>Pretty sure because 40.jpg has the stock rear bumper.  It was 
>removed the same time I had the drop kit installed.  Looks like
>my bumperetts in 41.jpg.  Suspension is otherwise stock except
>for the removal of the sway bars.

Thanks Rick!

I got the Drop, or Droop as downward travel is typically referred to, kit
about 2 months ago.  The increases in travel are quite astounding, as I
posted earlier.  I still need to install the bump stops relocators however,
but haven't had any problems without them.  YET.  

I noticed what appeared to be amazing front wheel travel in some of the pics
you posted.  Wheel travel is one of my passions, and I was wondering if you,
or others you know, have done anything to improve front axle articulation.
I've heard of early Bronco's installing aftermarket "long travel" radius
arms to improve front articulation.  You? Anyone?

I plan on running BFG MT 33x12.5x15's (or Yokohama) on custom steel rims in
the near future, so the current OME/droop kit/no SB's articulation is
probably maximum for fender clearance, but of course, more still might be
better! ;^)

Second question.  Have you, or anyone else, who have removed their rear
bumper, have had problems with "snagging" the spare when dropping off
ledges?  The way I was slamming the rear bumper on ledges in Moab got me
thinking that if it (the bumper) was removed the spare would take the hits.
Not good if it did.  A fix I am considering is to relocate the spare higher
up (4"?) on the existing mount.  I would have to remove the third break
light but no big.

Lastly, with the rear bumper removed, the tail lights look extra vulnerable
as well.  Even with SG's bumperetts, they look like they have the potential
to get mashed when dropping off big ledges (with subsequent body damage).  I
am considering removing the stock tail lights and installing the small
rounds seen in UK LR's in the same locations.  It will look more "British"
and I feel the peace of mind will be worth it. Yes I know I will be less
visible to other drivers. Any comments?  

I realize the damage potential I'm expressing is extreme, but hey, I love
rock crawling and prevention is the key to longevity (or something like that!). 

Doug Marbourg, '94 NAS D90 

(505)665-1729 work
(505)983-3574 home
marbourg@lanl.gov work
marbourg@juno.com home

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 10:53:00 PDT
From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff)
Subject: Re: The Coil Sprung (Land-Rover) Owner List Daily Digest

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996 10:52:37 -0700 you wrote:

>Alan, before you spend the money on Brake rotors from the dealer,  there
>are quite a few OEM and aftermarket parts catalogues with much cheeper
>prices.
>for the brake rotors, I would call Special Interest Car parts, 1(800)
>555-7496......

Too late Paul, I needed to get the front brakes done before I left for
vacation next week with my boat (pulling it up to Lake Tahoe). Thanks
for the number of SIC parts, I'll give them a call and get a catalog.
I didn't have time to shop around this time and would have had the
dealer do it but they were busy and couldn't.

>their rotors are still on sale
>for somewhere in the $32.00-$50.00 range depending on if you have vented or
>non vented rotors.

Ouch, that hurt Paul! ;-) I got them under the brake shop's retail #,
but the dealer gave me 15% off $150 each!!!! Oh well, I plan to have
my 'rover for a long time, so I'm sure it's not the first time I'll
overpay for some parts...;-)

>I seem to rember that yours are non-vented as my '87 has.

I think you are right, as my VIN is the previous one to the change in
'89. In the service manual it starts on '87 and then doesn't list any
changes until '89, so I assume they are the same. The dealer did check
out the VIN to make sure.

> buyin the manuals is the way to go, now you can read through and get a
>better understanding of your beast, and when something happens you will be
>able to see what is wrong. Then of course if you can't figure it out you
>get on the list and ask us. If someone doesn't have the full answer, I am
>sure you can be pointed in the right direction.

You guys better quit telling me I can ask questions here, pretty soon
you won't be able to shut me up! <g>

Alan DuBoff
aland@ibm.net
Moorigami, Moore 24 #77

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:29:24 -0500
From: Shaun Carrigan <shaunc@infi.net>
Subject: speedo reprise

Mike L.,

Awhile back you posted info on speedometer repair and referenced an 
earlier post by Gerald Tan. Does anyone have Gerald's post archived? 
Gerald, are you out there?

Shaun Carrigan
'88 RR

------------------------------

Subject: Re: Range Rover Michelin tires
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:34:41 -0400
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

>Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 13:05:26 -0400

Kevin Kelly writes:
>I just read a "Michelin Marketing Bulletin" that said that the XMS 244 (the
>OEM tire on all '88-'95 Range Rovers) was last produced in October '95, but
>that a small number of the tires will be reserved "for OE replacement
>purposes - one tire at a time".  Michelin says that the new 4x4 XPC 205/80R16
>is compatible with the XMS 244 but, they cannot be mixed on the same axle.

Hi Kevin,
	In the Michelin tyre details books I was perusing whilst visiting
'Limey in Exile' (over the last bank holiday), the difference is that the
XMS 244 has a slighly different rolling circumference (& aspect ratio) from
the XPC 205/80R16 - the XMS244 205R16 is actually a 205/82R16 - hence the
difference.

	FYI, there are a couple alternate XPC sizes (225,235,255), I've chosen
to go with the 235/70R16, which as it happens has a wider section, and 
*same* rolling circumference as the OEM XMS244 (handy that is).  The bad news
is that Michelin doesn't have many of them in the country (evidently they are
the standard Disco tyre), and thus the tyres are 'on allocation' which means
you need to give the details of the vehicle and end-user.  The man down
at Dorchester Tire says they decided to fill my order, and if the post is
quick I'll have them by the 4th (for Owl's Head). And since they're on
allocation, the most they'll ship you is quantity four (no new spare, eh ?).

	The quoted prices were $160 to $235 each, and one place* simply said
'they are unavailable', [*From my two recent dealings with them it appears that
Direct Tire (Watertown, Ma) won't take any work unless it is 'quick' AND
profitable, though they do have a waiting room where you could probably eat
off the floor, and were courteous, they just didn't want my custom - twice.]

	Now all I've got to do is find some exhaust manifold -to- exhaust nuts
and gaskets.  It seems the nuts have gone walk-about up in Ontario, (then maybe
the RR will actually sound like it is using the whole of it's exhaust system).

    Cheers,
        --bill  	caloccia@OpenMarket.com
                 http://www.Senie.com/billc/

       http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/~majordom/lr/
   R  1  3  2wd  H		  D
   +--|--|   o   |             L  3	Land Rovers First
      2  4  4wd  L             |  2	    because
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"            H  1	Land Rovers Last
      793-PTA            '90 RR County

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 16:03:52 EST
From: "Michael Lenaghan" <lenagham@bachman.com>
Subject: Re: speedo reprise

     Shaun,
     
     sorry I didn't keep Gerald's original post. It was basically 
     describing a complete strip[ down of the speedo head and putting it 
     back together. I did this with my speedo but:
     
     a) couldn't get the odometer pieces back together again
     and
     b) found that the main worm drive gear was worn and wasn't worth 
     replacing
     
     I ended up buying a new speedo (my 3rd in 120K) from Euro Parts 
     1-800-274-4830 for $176 the best price I could find.
     
     Good Luck 
     Mike

> Subject: speedo reprise
> Author:  shaunc@infi.net at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)]
> Shaun Carrigan
> '88 RR

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 12:09:49 PDT
From: aland@ibm.net (Alan DuBoff)
Subject: Re: speedo reprise

On Fri, 28 Jun 1996 14:29:24 -0500 you wrote:

>Awhile back you posted info on speedometer repair and referenced an 
>earlier post by Gerald Tan. Does anyone have Gerald's post archived? 
>Gerald, are you out there?

Shaun,

When I bought my '88 rr a few months back, the speedo worked fine.

Then it just quit working about 3K or 4K miles later.

The dealer told me that speedos tend to go out on the rr's after they
get some miles on them (I have about 90K miles on mine).

Another oddity that has been there since I got my 'rover is that the
light has not worked on the speedo pointer, and I assume that I could
change the light in the back of the binnacle. I have opened it up
before, but haven't done much (was looking to see if the cable was
loose on the speedo).

I guess I can assume that speedos tend to go out as the dealer
mentioned, huh ?

Alan DuBoff
aland@ibm.net
Moorigami, Moore 24 #77

------------------------------

Date: 28 Jun 96 16:14:23 EDT
From: "Peter J. Gronous" <100617.1214@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: 1979 RR Windscreen wiper nuts

Hello fellow Solihull Product Fans

I have just found you all and would like to pick your collective brains.
I have been restoring my '79 Range Rover (complete new inner body) and in the
dismantling stage had to cut the retaining nuts off the windscreen wipers where
they had corroded to the Aluminium (-um) spindles. Now having virtually
completed the rebuild I am trying to source replacement nuts which is near to
impossible since the factory which made the original W/Screen wiper motor no
longer exists on the site they were manufactured and Lucas no longer supply to
Landrover parts. The only option from Landrover Parts is to buy a new assembly.
I know that the nut was the same as one fitted to a BL car of the same era and
was until recently sold as a spare part however I don't know what car and since
there seems to be a communication gap between Rover and Landrover spare parts
people and neither seem to be able to help, I wondered if any one out there can
advise me of the size of nut or car which it came off. Wreckers seem loath to
separate the nut from the assembly for understandable reasons.

Thanks
Peter J. Gronous
100617.1214@compuserve.com
Surrey, England

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 16:20:33 EST
From: "Michael Lenaghan" <lenagham@bachman.com>
Subject: Re: 1979 RR Windscreen wiper nuts

     Peter,
     
     there was an article in one of the recent Land Rover Owner 
     International magazines about a guy in the UK who specialises in all 
     diffrent kinds of fasteners for LR products. Sorry I don't remember 
     his name or the name of his company. If you can find this back copy I 
     would try calling him.
     
     Regards
     Mike

> Subject: 1979 RR Windscreen wiper nuts
> Author:  "Peter J. Gronous" <100617.1214@CompuServe.COM> at inetmail

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)]
> 100617.1214@compuserve.com
> Surrey, England

------------------------------

Date: 28 Jun 96 22:21:53 EDT
From: Rob Dennis <73363.427@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Change in LRNA warranties TODAY

The extended warrantee that LR-NorthPoint and LR-Buckhead have offered was from
GE Capital, not ITT. I didn't get it yet, but a friend just got it for his D90
today for $1850. They didn't mention anything about being the last day, but I
guess we will see what they are selling on monday.

>> I just got off the phone with Bill Frank of LRWM.  He said that ITT used to
write LR extended warranties but the sold the business to a German Bank.
The bank re-rated LR and is saying a 7/100 warranty will go to $3000.  Not
good.  So LRNA (I assume it isn't metrowest) is moving to CNA, which is
Continental, I think.  They will be offering a 7/85 warranty in the $1800
range.

Now, here is the freaky part.  Bill said today is the last day he can write
ITT policies.  He said these guys are good to deal with, and the service
department likes them.  The ITT policy is identical to the LR basic
warranty, bumper-to-bumper and transferrable.  It isn't clear that the CNA
policies will follow this path.  Plus, ITT is $100 cheaper and 15k longer. <<

  
     -------------------       
    |         |         |
    | _ _ ____|____ _ _ |       Rob Dennis
  O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O     73363.427@Compuserve.com
   \____===_=====_===____/      Atlanta, GA USA
   |oo   |(_)###(_)|   oo|      (404) 875-4537
   |     |   ###   |     |      
   |     | ####### |     |      1972 SerIII 88
   |_____|_#######_|_____|      1990 RangeRover
  [_______________________]     1996 Discovery *new*
     EEEI           EEEI

Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com
 On 28-Jun-1996

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 21:37 EST
From: jhaskell@iquest.net (Jon R. Haskell)
Subject: 95 D90 SW For Sale

For Sale: 1995 D90 SW.  White with 11K highway miles and all service
records.  This truck is entirely stock and it is perfect.  Considering
serious offers. 

------------------------------

From: Jim Pappas <roverhed@m3.pcix.com>
Subject: RE: 97 Wrangler
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 20:54:46 -0400

Land Rover not listening? I would politely beg to differ. I can tell you =
that countless clinics and interviews are going on... as we *speak.* If =
LR didn't listen, we wouldn't have gotten the NAS D110, D90, D90SW or =
ANY D90s for 1997 - at ALL!

Air suspension was rightly conceived as a useful evolutionary step - not =
a gimmick. IT STILL HAS NOT BEEN INTRODUCED in any of the competitor's =
vehicles. Interestingly, the big three all bought LWB's in 1993/4 to =
evaluate the EAS!! You'll be seeing some copying going on perhaps in =
1998...

Land Rover's future? The recent interview in LRO (RE: *The Greatest LR =
of All Time*) quoted one of the chief project engineers at LR *you ain't =
seen nothing yet!*

I believe him!

cheers!
Jim - better living through mud!

`67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid
`67 2A lightweight
`68 2B 110 F/C diesel
`70 P6B 3500S
`90 Range Rover County
`93 NAS D110 (#457/500)
`95 NAS D90 #1958
`96 Disco SE7(M)

----------
From: 	John Brabyn[SMTP:brabyn@skivs.ski.org]
Sent: 	Wednesday, June 26, 1996 7:04 AM
Cc: 	'rro@playground.sun.com'
Subject: 	RE: 97 Wrangler

Yes it's interesting to check out the new Wrangler! Personally I think
Jeep has done a very good job considering their mass market target, and
they took more notice of their owners than Land Rover ever did or seems
to do, interviewing many Jeep trail riders to see what they wanted.

In the current issue of Open Road there is an interesting comparison =
test
between the new Wrangler and the Defender. The writers were, like many =
car
journalists, fairly clueless about how the respective 4WD systems work,
but the comparison which obviously included a reasonable amount off-road =

was interesting nonetheless.

Their verdict was that the Jeep is the equal of the Land Rover off road
and a lot better on road.

I would dispute that finding of course, but I still think Land Rover =
will
need to watch over its shoulder as a wide array of SUVs gradually catch =
up
with our off-road performance while continuing to leave us for dead on =
the
pavement.  No Land Rover model has made significant advances in off-road
performance for several years (eg since the introduction of air =
suspension
and electronic traction control in 1993), and if they want to maintain
their lead they would be well advised to do so.

Just a few of my ravings injected into the conversation to spark =
debate...!!

Cheers

John Brabyn
89RR

------------------------------

From: "Tom Walsh" <tomw@best.com>
Date:          Sat, 29 Jun 1996 02:30:36 +0000
Subject:       Re: Roll over angle testing ( NEW PICS TOO! )

> Tom,
> Thanks so much for posting the Safari Gard pics to you're web page.
> I have been waiting patiently for my order for almost three months now, 
> drooling over some of the pictures Greg had sent me.

No problemo!

I'm really busy these days! Vacation starts tommorow :) :)
But... I will be doing much more to the Web page, so stay tuned!

> WOW, some of the 
> pictures on you're web page show some incredible axle droop/articulation. 
> Are these rigs running Greg's rear suspension drop kit?

Yes, but there may be some before and after shots... I just copied pics 
from the lite_brigade directory into the safari_gaurd directory. That 
is my disco... all the shots are "after" pictures... 

> I just received my diff gards and air rock sliders yesterday. The build 
> quality looks very high. Unfortunately Greg didn't send me any of the air 
> lines, fittings, or HDW to install the sliders! :<
> drooling over some of the pictures Greg had sent me.

Ya! he said he is going to try to get directions.. ( In fact I kinda 
told him to do it!, he DOES listen and wants to expand! He's just 
kinda busy, I know how that can be! )

> Have to call him back today. I wanted to get this stuff installed for the 
> Downeast rally in Maine 7/5/96. Other good news is now that Greg has 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> bumper/brushbar setup will/should finally be finished and off to the 
> powdercoaters by the end of next week. 

I may have seen it on his work bench when I was there last week! 

Tomw

> Cheers,
> Barnett
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 98 lines)]
> #include <std_disclaim.h>
> *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*
                       Fluent Networks
             "Intelligent Networking Solutions"
Tom Walsh, Founder, VP Technology/Engineering
tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com
http://www.fluentnet.com
95 LR Disco "The Light Brigade"
#include <std_disclaim.h>
*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*

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