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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 97 08:48 GMT0
From: srawlings@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Rawlings)
Subject: Re: V rights on UCR's
Chris
offered the County rd map.
This has always been what was on offer in Shropshire. Look closely for
Tippex!! We have suspicions that the "odd" UCR or bits of same have
"disappeared" off the county road map in the past in at least one case.
Steve Rawlings
------------------------------
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From: Tilbo@aol.com
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 10:10:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: 2nd request - Bucklebury
Good morning colleagues,
I now have the background papers to the proposed TRO on Bucklebury 64.
Apparently the AWDC "do not object" whilst there has been no response from
"the British Horse Society, the Trail Riders Fellowship and the Hants and
Berks Rover Owners."
I would be grateful if those organisations could let me know if that is
factual. Clearly if no one else gives a toss (legal term) then why the
fffffff flying fish should I?
Mrs Still a neighbour to the above mentioned lane uses JP on her letterhead.
I have had a pop at the Lord Chancellor's Dept ref her campaigning with
GLEAM. She retired in 93 "However the Lord Chancellor is very concerned that
the good reputation of the magistracy should be maintained and justices on
the Supplemental List should take care not to jeopardise that position."
I find it odd that following all the recent anti GLEAM mail of late the
matter of RUPP 64 has been ignored by all concerned. The first I heard about
is was from a non club 4x4 user from Newbury!! Begs the question 'what are
the TRF, AWDC, H&BRO club reps doing?'
For the benefit of all - thanks for reminding me Chris - I have had not one
relpy. I take it that the vehicular users in Berks care not a toss for their
lanes or the rights of those from neighbouring Counties over them?
DT
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:09:18 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: V(anishing) rights on UCR's
Steve said
> This has always been what was on offer in Shropshire. Look closely for
> Tippex!! We have suspicions that the "odd" UCR or bits of same have
> "disappeared" off the county road map in the past in at least one case.
However Tippex can be seen, what concerns me is an electronic tippex when
using GIS, that seems to leave no audit trail, or does it?
Steve, ever used Gypsy lane NE of Knighton, faint purple on map. I suspect
that is tippex.
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:09:21 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: 2nd request - Bucklebury
I have sent my letter to Babtie, but not yet been to my "Berkshire" address
to collect any replies.
I will keep you informed.
I take it "No response" and "do not object" means two different things?
Someone in AWDC has some explaining to do. As a member I would like to know
why they didnt?
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:09:21 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: 2nd request - Bucklebury
I have sent my letter to Babtie, but not yet been to my "Berkshire" address
to collect any replies.
I will keep you informed.
I take it "No response" and "do not object" means two different things?
Someone in AWDC has some explaining to do. As a member I would like to know
why they didnt?
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 15:09:21 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: 2nd request - Bucklebury
I have sent my letter to Babtie, but not yet been to my "Berkshire" address
to collect any replies.
I will keep you informed.
I take it "No response" and "do not object" means two different things?
Someone in AWDC has some explaining to do. As a member I would like to know
why they didnt?
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:22:33 +0000
From: Brian Lewis <brian@limb.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: V rights on UCR's
In message <199703211917_MC2-12F1-C1F8@compuserve.com>, Chris Marsden
<Byway@compuserve.com> writes
>Chris
[ truncated by list-digester (was 6 lines)]
>Q Difference between unlawful and illegal?
>A One is against the law, other's a sick bird.
Hi All
I would like to put the following section from 'Rights Of Way A guide to
law and practice' by John Riddall and John Trevelyan
it is available from :- The Open Spaces Society
25a Bell Street
Hedley-on-Thames
Oxon
RG9 2BA
Tel: 01491 573535
Cost 14.00 Pounds inc p/p
Section 36(6) of the Hghways Act 1980 requires every highway authority
to make, and keep up-to-date, a ;ist of streets within its area which
are the highways maintainable at bulic expence. -----
'Street' is defined in HA80 s 329 (p 357) as to include any highway. The
list must therefore contain all footbaths, bridleways and carriageways
which are maintanable at pulic expence , whether or not they are shown
on the difinative map.-------
The list may well prove strong, though not conclusive, evidence of the
public's rights. However it cannot be relied upon as evidence of the
nature of those rights,ie whether the way should on the difinative map
as a footpath, bridleway or byway.
This is perticularly true of a way shown in the list as an 'unclassified
county road'. Altough the use of the word 'road' implies vehicular
roghts, all that con in fact be deduced from the term, which was created
by the Local Government Act 1929 and abolishe by LGA 72, ie that the way
concerned was a highway maintainable at public expence, other than a way
such as an 'A' road classified by the Minister of Transport. Further
evidence from other sources would be needed to establish conclusively
the existance of vehicalur rights.
This book makes good reading and explains a lot of the acts which are
used to stop the use of the UCRs and how they will restrick access in
the end, but if we keep a eye on them we may be able to stop it
happening.
Please forgive the typing and speling.
Bye for now
Brian
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:54:48 +0000
From: Brian Lewis <brian@limb.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: St.Albans
In message <3331A3D6.5FB0@virgin.net>, USER <john.o'reilly@virgin.net>
writes
>Hi all
>I have been told that Gleam has been mention by this councillor who
[ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
>Henchley, 2 Barley Mow Lane, Tyttenhanger, St.Albans, Herts.
>Any thoughts at all please let me know
>Cheers JohnO'Reilly
Hi John
I think we have the same problem with one of the managers of the
environmental management dept in North Yorkshire CC, I have been told
that the person in question is a keen walker and in the RA and is very
anti 4x4 use of UCRs etc., does anybody know if we can object on the
grounds that he is not acting impartially and obstructing the use of
these UCRs?
Even one of the National Park Officers said there would not be any
change untill this man retires.
Good luck with the gates, we have a very large bolder at the back of the
gate we are trying to get opened !!!
Bye for now
Brian Lewis
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:31:31 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Green Lane-Practice
Hi,
Practice run today for green lane day:-
3 major routes opened
Signing on 3 others
several trimmed
13 inspected (driven)
1 Obstructed - Farmer promised to clear next week
12 people involved
1 congratulation on opening up road.
1 complaint that vehicles using UCR will allow water to flow down lane too
fast and cause a flood.
(Must remember to take all complaints seriously !)
Open for business 8.30 am.
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:31:31 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Green Lane-Practice
Hi,
Practice run today for green lane day:-
3 major routes opened
Signing on 3 others
several trimmed
13 inspected (driven)
1 Obstructed - Farmer promised to clear next week
12 people involved
1 congratulation on opening up road.
1 complaint that vehicles using UCR will allow water to flow down lane too
fast and cause a flood.
(Must remember to take all complaints seriously !)
Open for business 8.30 am.
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:31:31 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Green Lane-Practice
Hi,
Practice run today for green lane day:-
3 major routes opened
Signing on 3 others
several trimmed
13 inspected (driven)
1 Obstructed - Farmer promised to clear next week
12 people involved
1 congratulation on opening up road.
1 complaint that vehicles using UCR will allow water to flow down lane too
fast and cause a flood.
(Must remember to take all complaints seriously !)
Open for business 8.30 am.
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 18:31:31 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Green Lane-Practice
Hi,
Practice run today for green lane day:-
3 major routes opened
Signing on 3 others
several trimmed
13 inspected (driven)
1 Obstructed - Farmer promised to clear next week
12 people involved
1 congratulation on opening up road.
1 complaint that vehicles using UCR will allow water to flow down lane too
fast and cause a flood.
(Must remember to take all complaints seriously !)
Open for business 8.30 am.
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:41 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: RUPP Reclass
Further to Geralds posting on 19/3, one of our camping, green lane day
team, Ian from Redditch said this am, he heard on R4 last week of a
judicial review in Lincolnshire deny BOAT status for a RUPP where there had
been vehicular usage.
Is anyone aware of the ins and outs of this item?
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:41 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: RUPP Reclass
Further to Geralds posting on 19/3, one of our camping, green lane day
team, Ian from Redditch said this am, he heard on R4 last week of a
judicial review in Lincolnshire deny BOAT status for a RUPP where there had
been vehicular usage.
Is anyone aware of the ins and outs of this item?
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:40 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Unmaintained Publc Roads.
Hi,
Geof Brookes said, and I fully agree there are perhaps 250 or so roads that
are non-maintained roads neither on the def map or the list of publicly
maintained roads.
This means there is no record kept anywhere of these public roads?
I would like to start the ball rolling - if such is possible - can I have
suggestions please ie a letter to HA A/Director:-
Dear Jeff,
Do you record, or, do you know how many Non-maintained public roads there
are in the County of Hereford and Worcester?
YS
Chris
This could then be followed, (anticipating a non-helpful reply) with a list
of about 250 roads that WE consider are non maintained roads, and where we
have some evidence, submitted jointly by researchers in this field,
possibly, Geof B, Charlie M, Peter McKay, Peter Newman, Tim S, Tim D,
Richard Hawkins, Brian Ashcroft, Jeremy Atkinson, and others
Evidence being Pre 1835, OS and other maps, (some of which referred to by
H&W research into their pilot study), Inclosure award Public Carriage
roads, Roads mentioned in legal events etc. Roads where named individuals
state that they were used earlier this century by public vehicles.
We have had a number of people say about many roads that they were used
publically. These people would not go to a PI, would in many cases have
passed on by then, and would not be sufficient in number for any one road.
Collectively they build a very convincing picture.
Comments please.
Chris.
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:40 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Unmaintained Publc Roads.
Hi,
Geof Brookes said, and I fully agree there are perhaps 250 or so roads that
are non-maintained roads neither on the def map or the list of publicly
maintained roads.
This means there is no record kept anywhere of these public roads?
I would like to start the ball rolling - if such is possible - can I have
suggestions please ie a letter to HA A/Director:-
Dear Jeff,
Do you record, or, do you know how many Non-maintained public roads there
are in the County of Hereford and Worcester?
YS
Chris
This could then be followed, (anticipating a non-helpful reply) with a list
of about 250 roads that WE consider are non maintained roads, and where we
have some evidence, submitted jointly by researchers in this field,
possibly, Geof B, Charlie M, Peter McKay, Peter Newman, Tim S, Tim D,
Richard Hawkins, Brian Ashcroft, Jeremy Atkinson, and others
Evidence being Pre 1835, OS and other maps, (some of which referred to by
H&W research into their pilot study), Inclosure award Public Carriage
roads, Roads mentioned in legal events etc. Roads where named individuals
state that they were used earlier this century by public vehicles.
We have had a number of people say about many roads that they were used
publically. These people would not go to a PI, would in many cases have
passed on by then, and would not be sufficient in number for any one road.
Collectively they build a very convincing picture.
Comments please.
Chris.
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:40 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Unmaintained Publc Roads.
Hi,
Geof Brookes said, and I fully agree there are perhaps 250 or so roads that
are non-maintained roads neither on the def map or the list of publicly
maintained roads.
This means there is no record kept anywhere of these public roads?
I would like to start the ball rolling - if such is possible - can I have
suggestions please ie a letter to HA A/Director:-
Dear Jeff,
Do you record, or, do you know how many Non-maintained public roads there
are in the County of Hereford and Worcester?
YS
Chris
This could then be followed, (anticipating a non-helpful reply) with a list
of about 250 roads that WE consider are non maintained roads, and where we
have some evidence, submitted jointly by researchers in this field,
possibly, Geof B, Charlie M, Peter McKay, Peter Newman, Tim S, Tim D,
Richard Hawkins, Brian Ashcroft, Jeremy Atkinson, and others
Evidence being Pre 1835, OS and other maps, (some of which referred to by
H&W research into their pilot study), Inclosure award Public Carriage
roads, Roads mentioned in legal events etc. Roads where named individuals
state that they were used earlier this century by public vehicles.
We have had a number of people say about many roads that they were used
publically. These people would not go to a PI, would in many cases have
passed on by then, and would not be sufficient in number for any one road.
Collectively they build a very convincing picture.
Comments please.
Chris.
------------------------------
[ <- Message 18 -> end
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:40 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Unmaintained Publc Roads.
Hi,
Geof Brookes said, and I fully agree there are perhaps 250 or so roads that
are non-maintained roads neither on the def map or the list of publicly
maintained roads.
This means there is no record kept anywhere of these public roads?
I would like to start the ball rolling - if such is possible - can I have
suggestions please ie a letter to HA A/Director:-
Dear Jeff,
Do you record, or, do you know how many Non-maintained public roads there
are in the County of Hereford and Worcester?
YS
Chris
This could then be followed, (anticipating a non-helpful reply) with a list
of about 250 roads that WE consider are non maintained roads, and where we
have some evidence, submitted jointly by researchers in this field,
possibly, Geof B, Charlie M, Peter McKay, Peter Newman, Tim S, Tim D,
Richard Hawkins, Brian Ashcroft, Jeremy Atkinson, and others
Evidence being Pre 1835, OS and other maps, (some of which referred to by
H&W research into their pilot study), Inclosure award Public Carriage
roads, Roads mentioned in legal events etc. Roads where named individuals
state that they were used earlier this century by public vehicles.
We have had a number of people say about many roads that they were used
publically. These people would not go to a PI, would in many cases have
passed on by then, and would not be sufficient in number for any one road.
Collectively they build a very convincing picture.
Comments please.
Chris.
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:41 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: RUPP Reclass
Further to Geralds posting on 19/3, one of our camping, green lane day
team, Ian from Redditch said this am, he heard on R4 last week of a
judicial review in Lincolnshire deny BOAT status for a RUPP where there had
been vehicular usage.
Is anyone aware of the ins and outs of this item?
Chris
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:41 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: RUPP Reclass
Further to Geralds posting on 19/3, one of our camping, green lane day
team, Ian from Redditch said this am, he heard on R4 last week of a
judicial review in Lincolnshire deny BOAT status for a RUPP where there had
been vehicular usage.
Is anyone aware of the ins and outs of this item?
Chris
------------------------------
[ <- Message 21 -> end
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:40 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Unmaintained Publc Roads.
Hi,
Geof Brookes said, and I fully agree there are perhaps 250 or so roads that
are non-maintained roads neither on the def map or the list of publicly
maintained roads.
This means there is no record kept anywhere of these public roads?
I would like to start the ball rolling - if such is possible - can I have
suggestions please ie a letter to HA A/Director:-
Dear Jeff,
Do you record, or, do you know how many Non-maintained public roads there
are in the County of Hereford and Worcester?
YS
Chris
This could then be followed, (anticipating a non-helpful reply) with a list
of about 250 roads that WE consider are non maintained roads, and where we
have some evidence, submitted jointly by researchers in this field,
possibly, Geof B, Charlie M, Peter McKay, Peter Newman, Tim S, Tim D,
Richard Hawkins, Brian Ashcroft, Jeremy Atkinson, and others
Evidence being Pre 1835, OS and other maps, (some of which referred to by
H&W research into their pilot study), Inclosure award Public Carriage
roads, Roads mentioned in legal events etc. Roads where named individuals
state that they were used earlier this century by public vehicles.
We have had a number of people say about many roads that they were used
publically. These people would not go to a PI, would in many cases have
passed on by then, and would not be sufficient in number for any one road.
Collectively they build a very convincing picture.
Comments please.
Chris.
------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 03:27:41 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: RUPP Reclass
Further to Geralds posting on 19/3, one of our camping, green lane day
team, Ian from Redditch said this am, he heard on R4 last week of a
judicial review in Lincolnshire deny BOAT status for a RUPP where there had
been vehicular usage.
Is anyone aware of the ins and outs of this item?
Chris
------------------------------
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