msg	Sender	lines	Subject
1	Chris Marsden [Byway@com	75	Fine Words, from boys in Blue,
2	Chris Marsden [Byway@com	34	TRO's Map 135, Aberystwyth.
3	Mike Cattell [Mike@mikec	18	Todays telegraph
4	Chris Marsden [Byway@com	118	UCR Vehicular Rights-DoE
5	Tilbo@aol.com	14	User needed
	Majordomo		About the digest

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Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 04:45:11 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: Fine Words, from boys in Blue,

....and little else.

On 16/1/97 I drove Roman Road Hereford, SO4442, and removed some minor
impediments on my way.
By 31/1/97 they were back with a vengence, (Bollards, Concrete, Steel
frames. dung soil, etc etc.) I hot footed it down to local nick, and after
8 weeks I now know how they intend to uphold the law. You may be
interested.

now and mow the grass, will we?")

West Mercia Constabulary
(Policing the counties of Hereford & Worcester and Shropshire)
                Police Station,
                Bath Street,
Tel. No.        01432 276422 ext. 4730  HEREFORD,
Fax No. 01432 279006    HRI 2HT

Our Ref:        BWIKL
Your Ref:       26th March 1997

Dear Mr MARSDEN

With reference to your letter dated 5th February 1997 to Superintendent
ADAMS  concerning an obstruction of the unclassified U73019 road at
Credenhill and our telephone conversations concerning the same subject, I
am now in a position to reply to you formally.

I have made enquiries into the matters you raise and having concluded these
enquiries I have sought legal advice from the Solicitor of the West Mercia
Constabulary in relation to areas of responsibility and investigation.

As you will appreciate the Police have a responsibility which overlaps with
that of the County Council as the Highways Authority to assert highway
rights.  The Police are the primary agency involved when there are
obstructions to the highway which require immediate action and where the
legal situation is readily apparent.  The County Council is the appropriate
body to investigate where there are complex issues involved and the alleged
obstructions are long-standing.

I am advised that it would not be right for the Police to intervene in the
enquiries currently being pursued by the Highways Authority, who are the
appropriate body to investigate this issue.

May I respectfully request that you refer all your enquiries in relation to
this obstruction to Mr T DAVIES, Assistant Divisional Engineer, Hereford &
Worcester County Council Offices, Bath Street, Hereford, who is the person
tasked with irs investigation.

Yours sincerely

R.M. WILSON
Sgt. 1437

MrCJMARSDEN
Orleton Manor
Orleton
Nr. LUDLOW
SY8 4HR

01 568 780 811

I will be taking a scenic drive of the ancient roads of Herefordshire
shortly, anyone interested in accompanying me, especially if they happen to
have with them a winch (or a few lbs of TNT), to deal with the normal
impediments one expects to find in the country, please give me a call.

Chris

The Pen is mightier than the Sword.  The Sawed is mightier than the Pen.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 08:18:10 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: TRO's Map 135, Aberystwyth.

Aberearon are consulting prior to making three TRO's on RUPPS.

This is due to damage caused by vehicles. ( It is despite recognition by
RoW that considerable income is brought into the area by tourism and green
lane use. )

NGR's are SN 
732 912  to  687 895    
746 764  to  822 818
756 840  to  719 813 ( including byway 14/76 )

"Damage was so severe that following the definitive line was not passable,
and Highways & Transportation committee mtg 22/1/97 decided on full
consultation prior to TRO".

Contact R G Jones
Ceredigion CC
County Hall, 
Market Street
Aberaeron
SA46 0AT

Tel 01 545 570 382,   Fax 571 089

Comment:-
If a TRO is essential, it would be hoped that it could be seasonal.
I am not aware if VR has been requested.

Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 17:26:40 +0000
From: Mike Cattell <Mike@mikecat.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Todays telegraph

Im suprised that no one has commented on the news article in todays
telegraph.
Its readable at:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000200160148902&rtmo=333d4f00&at
mo=333d4f00&pg=/et/97/3/29/nbrid29.html

Sorry about the long url but i think it includes my access number

Talk about gloom and doom
Mike Cattell, West Cheshire.
http://www.mikecat.demon.co.uk
LandRover series 3, SWB, Diesel, 1975

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 14:57:56 -0500
From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Subject: UCR Vehicular Rights-DoE

This is a scanned copy of the letter from The DoE to Brian Lewis. It is an
important clarification of the recent debate.

Chris.

Department of the Environment
        Countryside Division
        Room 9/16 Tollgate House        Tel: 0117-987 8874
        Houlton Street  GTN: 1374-8874
        BRISTOL BS2 9DJ Fax: 0117-987 8~87

B W Lewis Esq 
"Juno', 
Richmond Road 
Ingleton via CARNFORTH
Lancashire
LA6 3AN 

CYD3/4683/39
26 March1997

Dear Mr Lewis

RUPPS AND UNCLASSIFIED ROADS

Thank you for your letter of 14 March to Dr R M Pritchard. Dr Pritchard has
now left the Countryside Division and I have been asked to reply to the
points you raise.

Firstly, I must explain that the Department of the Environment cannot
authoritatively interpret the law as only the Courts are empowered to do
that. What is set out below is the Department's informal understanding of
the law.

In answering your letter, I have assumed that the ways you refer to as
"County unclassified roads" are what are more commonly known as
"unclassified county roads" or UCRs. Unfortunately UCRS have never been
properly defined in law. In general, a UCR is a highway which is
maintainable at public expense over which the public have a right of way
for vehicular traffic. Whilst a byway open to all traffic (BOAT) is also
defined as carrying vehicular rights, it is a specialist category of
highway which is required to be shown on a definitive map of rights of way.

Although they both have vehicular rights, BOATs are defined as being mainly
used for the purposes for which footpaths and bridleways are so used. No
such presumption exists for UCRS, so the full range of rights can be
exercised without any presumption as to the use. In this sense a UCR has
"higher" rights than a BOAT, although I accept that this is an arcane
distinction.

A highway without any presumption as to the limits of its use (albeit the
presumption is a theoretical one) is a more "substantive" category of
highway and would subsume the "lower" rights that exist over the same way.
If a way was recorded as a UCR, or its equivalent, then in the Department's
opinion it would not be appropriate to record it as a BOAT and place it on
the definitive map.

It is possible that North Yorkshire County Council and the Yorkshire Dales
National Park have considered the question of the relationship between UCRs
and BOATs and have reached a different conclusion. As far as I am aware
this matter has never been tested in the Courts: until it is it will remain
a matter of opinion as to whether a UCR may properly be recorded on a
definitive map of rights of way as a BOAT.

You state that the highway authority are causing BOATs in the area to be
closed to vehicular traffic for ever". I should explain that the rights
which exist over a highway exist in perpetuity, unless extinguished by due
process of law. I assume that the highway authority are prohibiting
vehicular traffic by way of traffic regulation orders made under the Road
Traffic Regulation Act 1984. This requires public consultation and the
highway authority should take into account any objections or
representations made to the proposed order.

In answer to your specific questions in the penultimate paragraph of your
letter, if the "unclassified roads" you refer to are either UCRs or BOATs
then, by definition, they will have vehicular rights. The problem is that
some routes are loosely called "unclassified roads" without the rights over
them ever having properly been established.

I can confirm that, in general, footpaths and bridleways do not carry a
right of access by vehicles.  However, you should bear in mind that under
the provisions of section 56 of the Wildlife and
Countryside Act 1981, the recording of rights of way as either footpaths or
bridleways on a definitive map is:

"conclusive evidence that there was at the relevant date a highway as shown
on the map, and that the public had thereover a right of way on foot [and a
right of way on horseback or leading a horse], so however that this
paragraph shall be without prejudice to any question whether the public had
at that date any right of way other than those rights" [My italics]

The legislation therefore provides for the possibility of the existence of
additional rights, if it can be demonstrated that the definitive map is
wrong, or where rights have either accrued or been dedicated by the
landowner.

With RUPPs the situation is rather more complicated. Parliament
acknowledged that the definition of RUPPs originally contained in the
National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949 did not make it clear
whether vehicular rights existed or not. Section 54 of the Wildlife and
Countryside Act 1981 consequently put surveying authorities under a duty to
review those rights of way classified as RUPPs and reclassify them
according to the rights found to exist. Until this exercise has taken place
in respect if any individual RUPP, it would be unwise for any assumption to
be made as to whether vehicular rights exist.

I apologise for giving you such a convoluted answer to your questions, but
I am sure you appreciate that the law relating to rights of way is complex,
and does not lend itself to easy explanations.

Yours sincerely

MARTIN  STEER

------------------------------

From: Tilbo@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 15:40:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: User needed

Hi person of the RoW perversion

Hampshire are looking at a claim to add a byway to the Def. map at Tadley.
 This may have been used by Loddon Vale TRF or Berks 4x4 persons.  Will the
groups ask for user in their club mags.

It's in Tadley, there is some user, and the map ref is SU5973.6027 to
6083.6034.

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