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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:07:57 -0000
Subject: Re: Another hunt, another trunk, another cafe
be able to walk through any amount of mud without it sticking to him>>
A future MP? No offence intended - and no link with recreational
substances or sexual orientation should be made. Look, this was an innocent
comment to start with.
Dave Tilbury
Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
http://www.hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:45:41 -0000
Subject: Reading
A book list that may highlight something new for someone.
Addison Sir W. The Old Roads of England. Batsford, 1980.
Albert, W. The Turnpike Road System in England, 1663-1840. Cambridge
University Press, 1972.
Burke, T. Travel in England. Batsford, 1945.
Cobbett, W. Rural Rides (two volumes). Dent, 1957.
Colyer, R. Roads and Trackways of Wales. Moorland, 1984.
Copeland, J. Roads and their Traffic, 1750-1850. David and Charles, 1968.
Dodd, A. E. and E. M. Peaklands Roads and Trackways. Moorland, 1980.
Hindle, B. P. Roads and Trackways of the Lake District. Moorland, 1984.
Pawson, E. Transport and Economy: The Turnpike Roads of Eighteenth Century
Britain. Academic Press, 1977.
Pearce, R. M. Thomas Telford. Shire, second edition 1978, reprinted 1992.
Reader, W. J. MacAdam. Heinemann, 1980.
Rolt, L. T. C. Thomas Telford. Longman, 1959; Penguin, 1979.
Taylor, C. Roads and Tracks of Britain. Dent, 1979.
Trinder, B. The Making of the Industrial Landscape. Dent, 1982.
Wright, G. N. Roads and Trackways of the Yorkshire Dales. Moorland, 1985.
Wright, G. N. Roads and Trackways of Wessex. Moorland, 1988.
Dave Tilbury
Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
http://www.hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:54:48 -0000
Subject: Wilts - GLEAM
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 09:50 GMT0
Subject: Re: copyright
<<< If I remember correctly they (local council)
offered to sell me a copy at around 7 quid.>>>
7 quid? For a whole DM? Pay up NOW!!!!!!!!!!!and be grateful.
A bargain.
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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[spamkill: [^d][^2][0-9][0-9][0-9]*\.com[^a-z] input: %s] Received: from
arl-img-12.compuserve.com (arl-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.217.142])
[spamkill: [^d][^2][0-9][0-9][0-9]*\.com[^a-z] input: %s] by
arl-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id FAA15066
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From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:23:28 -0500
Subject: Bennett in Manchester Metro News
I think the edited version is better
;-)
cj
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From: TimLARA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:45:15 EST
Subject: Re: Bennett in Manchester Metro News
A very well constructed and cogent response, Ian, well done.
The interesting conclusion we can draw from this is two-fold.
1. Frank Elson was right to say that short is sweet, and a long letter only
gives them the chance to cut out the very nub of the message, from your point
of view. (ie that he doesn't have to go to Sussex to find problems.)
2. Any message which is critical of local MPs or local farmers or HAs are
edited in the above way.
Perhaps the two messages - Pinochet, and local obstructions - should have been
two letters?
Much better, whatever you said, and whatever they omitted, than all the
letters which didn't get published, and better still than those which never
got sent. Well done again.
Cheers, tim
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 12:48 GMT0
Subject: Re: Bennett in Manchester Metro News
pbrad makes us prick up our ears, by making us 'ear about a prick.......
...but could you put it into full context for us suvern namby-pambys
please?
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 12:48 GMT0
Subject: How long is reasonable?
Whats the govts own published response time?
I posted the following (snailmail) on 23.01.99 to Tony B, copy to Chief
Whip
22 January 1999
POSSIBLE CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN COMMONS SELECT COMMITTEE
Dear Sir
I note that the Chairman of the Commons Environment and Economic Select
Committee is Mr. A. Bennett, Lab., Denton and Reddish.
Mr. Bennett is also the President of the Ramblers Association. This
organisation has the stated aim of denying access to unsurfaced Rights of
Way to vehicular users, and I wonder how the two positions held by Mr.
Bennett may be reconciled.
Please advise me how users of vehicles might be assured of impartiality on
issues presented to and discussed by the Select Committee.
Now I know he's not going to have lain awake just waiting for my pearls to
drop onto the Wilton, but when would it be reasonable to have another go?
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 12:48 GMT0
Subject: Re: OS Explorers
Please can I ask anyone buying these as they become available to double
check them minutely against their old records wrt UCRs in particular.
There seems to be growing evidence that the CoCos are taking the
opportunity to 'lose' a lot of RoW records when submitting info to OS for
inclusion.
Any cases of such, er, ommission should be addressed in the firstt
instance to OS AND the CoCo concerned, since there would seem to be a
degree of buck-passing twixt one and t'other.
Copy instances to me as well I will monitor for possible action at higher
levels.
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:28:02 -0000
Subject: Salisbury Journal
Well, this is wot I rote
February 2, 1999
Salisbury Journal
Rollestone house
8 -12 Rollestone Street
Salisbury SP1 1DY
Dear Sir or Madam
I write to express concern at the lack of investigation behind some recent
articles and the way the Journal seems to support the actions of law
breakers and their allies.
The most recent piece being "Rural freedom brings worries". In this the
Journal quotes the comments of several interest parties but has looked no
further into the topic. Clearly this is a biased piece that is intended to
be inflammatory and gather support for actions that are currently illegal.
Strong words, you say, but look at the matter further.
As a keen walker and rider I know the area west of Salisbury very well. I
can think of a few rights of way that show signs of possible recreational
use (and I say possible because how do you differentiate between the tyre
marks of the farmers Land Rover and those left by a recreational user?) and
I know a good few routes that are damaged by tractors. The vast majority
are in excellent condition, although some are underused and becoming
overgrown.
With that background let us now look at the comments of those that are
quoted in your article.
Fovant parish Council - They own land across which runs a right of way.
This route is illegally obstructed to all users by locked gates at each
end, and it has been thus for many years.
South Wiltshire RoW Preservation Group - I have corresponded with this
organisation when I thought they really were intent on the preservation of
old lanes. Sadly the Chair has demonstrated a poor understanding of the
issues and it would now appear that the organisation has been taken over by
those who are against public access over 'their' land.
Mr D Gardiner, GLEAM - This is an organisation seemingly made up of
landowners who would prefer to prevent statutory access across 'their' land
by any means possible. For proof we need only look back to a television
programme, Dangerous Walks, that showed the secretary of GLEAM (Mrs M
Masters) stopping people from walking and riding on a Byway Open to All
Traffic across her farm. On GLEAM's mendacity I could fill several pages.
Robert Key MP - I am given to understand that the good Member lives just
off a public right of way that has, if it is the one I think it is, been
illegally obstructed for years. I have also heard, from bemused users of
this public path, that they were confronted by a vaguely familiar figure
who challenged their right to use the public path.
If we look to the Department of Transport and the Regions document Making
the Best of Byways we can see that there is no problem with responsible use
of recreational vehicles on old lanes and that irresponsible use is
minimal. Agricultural vehicles can be a problem, and one not easily
resolved. I can say that this document was produced after consultation
with many anti vehicle groups, and I note at least three GLEAM
members/supporters in the list of consultees.
So think hard Salisbury Journal before continuing this campaign against
vehicles on unsealed roads. Firstly consider who might really be causing
the damage. Think who will benefit from banning public access. Think
about the users that will be effected - Carriage Drivers, cyclists and even
riders and walkers. There are many disabled that use a 4x4 for their rural
access. I have been there and know the value of that access when it is
difficult to walk more than a few hundred yards. The character of the
lanes in question came about by use and will only be preserved for future
generations through responsible use. Think also on who a responsible
journal should support. Those who abide by the law (and gain their
recreation from that law) or those who actively break it.
Yours faithfully
~~~~~~~~~
Print it they won't - thought Yoda
Dave Tilbury
Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
http://www.hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:05:06 -0000
Subject: Wilts again
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From: TimLARA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:12:05 EST
Subject: Re: Wilts again
In a message dated 02 : 02 : 99 02:09 GMT Standard Time, Dave@hants-
lanes.demon.co.uk writes:
<< So the list cannot deal with PDF files. Try a zip. >>
Er sorry, Dave, the Zip looked no different from the earlier version, in AOL.
My program regards what you send as part of your text, not an attachment, and
so it saves whatever it cannot display as a txt file. So, I suspect that your
set-up might be cockeyed, perhaps. Odd really, I used to get your stuff in
clear, until you abandoned AOL.
Or perhaps my version of the Enigma machine needs to go back to Bletchley for
a service?
Cheers, tim
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From: TimLARA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:12:02 EST
Subject: Re: OS Explorers
In a message dated 02 : 02 : 99 12:49 GMT Standard Time,
doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
<< Copy instances to me as well I will monitor for possible action at higher
levels. >>
And I can take whatever you collate to the CCPR Ordnance Survey Committee of
which I am a swerving member of, ennit.
Cheers, tim
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 18:31 GMT0
Subject: Re: Robert Key
Hi Dave
1. Nice One Son
2. <<<<<<<<<Robert Key MP - I am given to understand that the good Member
lives justoff a public right of way that has, if it is the one I think it
is, beenillegally obstructed for years. I have also heard, from bemused
users ofthis public path, that they were confronted by a vaguely familiar
figurewho challenged their right to use the public path.>>>>
Grid Ref, please, I feel like a Sunday Jaunt coming on.
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: Susan Jeggo <derek.sue@virgin.net>
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:52:34 +0000
Subject: More Reading
From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:45:41 -0000
Subject: Reading
A book list that may highlight something new for someone
Also,
H.Wallis, Cambridge University Press ISBN 0521 551528
Historians Guide to Early British Maps,
- County by County guide to location of pre 1900 maps in the UK
Kain & Oliver, ISBN 0521 441919 Cambridge University Press
The Tithe Maps of England and Wales
-Cartographic analysis, County by County
Sue
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:12:10 -0000
Subject: Re: Rhyme or Reason
( In fact, he was in bed with a hangover).
Well just because dad's a ***t doesn't mean to say the lad's not human.
Dave Tilbury
Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
http://www.hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
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From: "Matthew Reeve & Mel Mauger" <blatchwood@btinternet.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:47:26 -0000
Subject: Re: Wilts again
><< So the list cannot deal with PDF files. Try a zip. >>
I don't think the major can handle attachments, it converts them to text
before sending them out to everyone. Either post it onto a website, or
collect a list of names of people who want a copy.
Matthew
UK, nr Heathrow
1979 2-dr Range Rover 300Tdi
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From: howard.neal@which.net
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: Re: Times 1/2/99
> Another letter today in Times, This time about the Ridgeway.
> Much as I detest TROs that are not justified, it may well be that a TRO on
> a few roads such as this may save the unjustifiable calls for bans
> everywhere.
The trouble with a TRO on the Ridgeway is that it would also affect the many
routes that cross it. Dozens of roads would become dead ends. To use many
through routes it is necessary to turn on to the Ridgeway for twenty yards or
so and then turn off. Any TRO should allow for this.
While I accept that the Ridgeway is over used by many and abused by a few. We
have enough lanes with TROs on down here already. Turning several dozen more
into cul-de-sac's is surely not desirable.
Regards,
Howard
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From: "Rob Smith" <rob@archenland.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:07:38 -0000
Subject: RE: Wilts - GLEAM
Thanks Dave, I'll comment once I've de-coded it!
Rob Smith
Mine's the blue 110
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From: "Rob Smith" <rob@archenland.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:07:45 -0000
Subject: RE: OS Explorers
This loss of data from the OS has gone on for sometime - one LR I looked at
recently had far fewer 'ucr's than my old one. Sorry I can't recall the
number, I didn't buy it cause the fiver in my wallet turned out to be a
"Sainsbury's bill".....
Rob Smith
Mine's the blue 110
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From: "Rob Smith" <rob@archenland.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:07:47 -0000
Subject: RE: Wilts again
I had much the same effect here - I am using MS Outlook.
I think the list server does this to attachments.....
Rob Smith
Mine's the blue 110
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 99 20:34 GMT0
Subject: Re: Firemans second jobs
Here's chapter and verse....who was it starting to monitor the Fireman?
Yes you can have
a "2nd job" outside the fire service - this includes being self-employed
e.g. cabbie.
But:
* you must have permission from the Chief Officer
* it must not interfere with your normal job
* the TYPE of job must not lead to suspicion of undue favour or influence
* permission will not be granted if there is a significant risk of injury.
* loads of stuff regarding sickness and injuries from the other job, e.g.
no working on 2nd job whilst off sick, notifying them of any injury picked
up on other job - to stop due-to-service claims I guess
* permission request to be made on a Form 5893
73s and 88s
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: "Peter BRADLEY" <pbrad@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:48:37 -0000
Subject: Re: Bennett in Manchester Metro News
Bennett, of Van Hoogstraten …
>"He wouldn't expect people to block roads but he is doing the same
>thing to public rights of way."
Is a road (private roads excepted) not a public right of way ?
Is a public vehicular right of way not a road ? (Whether or not it is
surfaced).
Is Bennett likely to campaign openly for the removal of obstructions that
prevent vehicles being used on BOATs and UCRs ?
Or can we expect a more biased attitude from the grand vizier of tramplers:-
"Roads" are for cars and they are made of smooth tarmac. Anybody blocking a
"road" is a troublemaker, probably a protestor and possibly called Swampy or
some similarly unacceptable name. "Public rights of way" is simply another
way of saying "footpaths and bridleways", which in turn is another way of
saying anything that is not a "road". "Public rights of way" were invented
for the exclusive use of ramblers plus the occasional horse. Motorised
users are hooligans and should be on the "road" where they belong.
Motorcycles are noisy, fast, and dangerously uncivilised. Mountain bikes
creep up on you and frighten small animals. Four wheel drives are only safe
in the hands of farmers and landowners, otherwise they kill many thousands
of defenceless children with their bullbars. Obstructions on "public rights
of way" are totally unacceptable … unless they only stop the motorcycles and
4WD's in which case they are perfectly OK and a law should be passed to say
so. Please vote for me - I deserve to be an MP.
If the bobble hat fits … wear it. And they do.
Peter B
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From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:33:25 -0500
Subject: E road 5221
Chris,
Thank you for the correspondence. I printed it out to show Jenny and it
took six sheets!!!!!!!. Your question about users well they have been many
................
[about 20 lines deleted for security]
......... legally been able to go down the lane and if it had been
maintained
properly tipping would not have gone on. Everyone I have spoken to whether
they are for or against seem concerned about how it will affect them. It
hasn't affected anybody for a very long time so why change just because
somebody wants to stop it up and the council see this is an easy way to get
out of their duty. It is quite amazing that at parish council meetings how
many problems we have in a little village concerning the council whether
it be county or district. Always there answer is either it is not their
responsibility or there is no money. I do despair sometimes.
I'm sorry I cannot help you anymore and it seems the council from your
letter are anchoring themselves in respect of the road is not used and
therefore they are justified in allowing Mr Marks to go ahead with his
application. However there is a long way to go and a lot more work to do
before they get their way. I would like to know if Mr Marks is going to pay
for the application even though he does want I'm sure the south side of the
road stopped up. That is purely council.
Take care
Tony
That has been a considerable help, as when they asked me if I could provide
user evidence I simply said YES, why wet the powder? I guessed there was
some. Any more you hear of do let me know. I was aware of some on the south
side. I would suggest if it went to one or both sides they are places of
interest and should be kept available.
The CC may well be able to say it is NOT being used, and thus MAY get their
stopping up possible retaining footpath rights or even bridleway. But it is
a full highway, IF you or any successor EVER, wanted to get a wheeled water
pump down there, or tractor, they would not be able to. I am not aware of
anyway they can negotiate an easement, only the Marks and you can do that,
at a cost. An easement is never as good as a public highway, for example
if it is not used for a number of years it can lapse unlike a highway. You
can be in disputes about maintenance, clearance obstructions, whereas a
highway you have the CC as an fair honest arbitrator upholding the public's
rights - as in this case - NOT!!!!
Thus the safest way is to convince the Parish Council that there is no case
to stop up because it has been obstructed. You will have to keep lobbying
them! Their fears that there will be a massive invasion of people is
absolute rubbish, there is so much evidence that other lanes in the area
are virtually unused, those that would use it can be requested not to use
roads if ever any level of use was proving to be a problem, and as a last
resort the County can impose a regulation order to say who can use the
road, when and how. I feel confident I can promise there will be no
problem with excessive use, the problem is getting enough people to explore
these roads in the first place, just two or three a year will stop the
problems encountered here. If the Parish are not convinced, get them to
speak to Tim Stevens, LARA 01 630 657 627, he is the one who can arrange
the users own restraint system should it be necessary. Personally I do not
think modern vehicles are ever likely to drive along the river, there is a
similar ford across the Wye at 'Byford', never ever used. But it should be
there.
Chris
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From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:33:23 -0500
Subject: Re: OS Explorers
> There seems to be growing evidence that the CoCos are taking the
> opportunity to 'lose' a lot of RoW records when submitting info to OS for
> inclusion.
Shurely Shume Mishtook?
[BTW isn't CoCo Countryside Commission?]
> Any cases of such, er, ommission should be addressed in the firstt
> instance to OS AND the CoCo concerned, since there would seem to be a
> degree of buck-passing twixt one and t'other.
Look these are OS, beyond reproach, there can be no question of an error.
It remind me of a letter I was penning yesterday after looking at Ex202,
comments on it appreciated.
To OS
Dear Sir,
I have just bought Explorer Map 202, and I congratulate you on it’s
readability.
I am concerned at one side-effect of the depiction of Public Access
Information (PAI). The reason for this is that when some, or most,
information is provided, then what is not shown in naturally taken by some
as "not existing".
I note that a few roads that are shown on Ex 202 without PAI, are shown on
the List of Streets (LoS). Some are short no through roads, but do link to
other RoW, for example Chapel Fm. 4752. Another example at Great Wacton
6156, is a short obstructed through road. Clearly such an omission will
further hasten it loss as it has been fenced off and little signs are left
of the road.
I understand PAI is taken from the HA’s List of Streets, or the County's
Road Map/GIS as the LoS alone is usually lacking location detail. Is this
information filtered or ‘selected’ in any way?
Could you tell me why this road, which is shown both on the List of Streets
and the County’s Road map ( as U65202) is not shown, but only the two ends
are as yellow? Is it for example human error, or OS policy or HA policy to
select which roads are to be depicted in this way? If so what is the
selection criteria to be used?
Obviously this information is of great interest to the public, for you to
go to the trouble of depicting these ways. Similarly there are many others
that do not wish such information presented. To illustrate: I have
recently been asked to offer an applicant for a BOAT DMMO £2,000 to drop
the application, and a RoW officer was imprisoned for accepting money for
making changes to the Definitive Map for cash. I am in no way insinuating
any irregularity has occurred, to ensure the probity of staff compiling is
beyond reproach where such a situation could conceivably arise, a full
public understanding of the recording process and checking would allay any
fears that might otherwise arise.
This Ex 202 mapped area has very few unsealed (white) roads. Adjacent
areas have considerably more. There are some examples of roads on maps
201, 203, and 189 that I wonder how you would deal, either as policy or
specifically with cases such as:-
· Dead Woman’s Lane (U91613), Hillhole Lane (U75235) as mapped, are not on
the physical (holloway) route.
· Oatcoft Farm (U91612) is regularly ploughed, therefore indiscernible.
· Wapley Road (U91610) goes through a quarry and stiles, Pateshall (U94218)
substantially obstructed.
· Barton Lane (U91011) maintainable for part of its length.
· Stockton Ride is subject to a Cease to Maintain Order, therefore is not
depicted on the LoS or County Road Map.
· Leysfield Road, (SO 394 658 to SO388 662) is an admitted publicly
maintainable highway admitted formally by the Highway Authority, but is not
on the LoS or the Road Map.
· U90629 Pen-Twyn, is on the LoS but not on the County’s Roads Map.
· Qeubb(U90617) and Llanarrow (U91024) are not on the Map but are on the
LoS
· Upper Welson (U90616) is now an ornamental pond,
· Limebrook U275 is on the previous Road map but simply omitted from the
later edition of road map.
· U91030 is shown on the map, but omitted from the LoS.
Would any of the above factors for example, be grounds for omitting PAI
symbols?
· Are any un-adopted or un-maintained, yet still public roads, shown (where
there is no ‘dual-status’ footpath, bridleway or byway)?
· I assume any path already shown as a footpath (or bridleway) will not be
shown with PAI?
· If a winter path is shown at the side of an unsealed road, would they
both be shown, or the Footpath take precedence over the higher rights?
cj
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From: TimLARA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:38:45 EST
Subject: Re: Firemans second jobs
In a message dated 02 : 02 : 99 08:35 GMT Standard Time,
doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
<< * permission will not be granted if there is a significant risk of injury.
Which means that a fireman cannot moonlight as a fireman.
A new sort of double jeopardy.
Cheers, tim
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From: TimLARA@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:49:47 EST
Subject: Re: OS Explorers
I suggest that any letter to OS about LoS routes (=red blobs) should be in two
separate parts on different sheets. One dealing with principles and hq-type
matters, and the other dealing with the specific examples in question.
If I had to answer such a letter in one piece, I would say
'Thank you for your interesting letter. As it deals with a particular route I
have asked my local chappie to deal with it, and you should be hearing from
him shortly. He was last seen surveying a turnip field in Somerset. Thank you
again for your interest in our wonderful products and we hope you don't mind
sponsoring them even though they do not show roads...'
Well, nearely like that. Got carried away (he should be - ed).
Cheers, tim
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[spamkill: [^d][^2][0-9][0-9][0-9]*\.com[^a-z] input: %s] Received: from
dub-img-12.compuserve.com (dub-img-12.compuserve.com [149.174.206.142])
[spamkill: [^d][^2][0-9][0-9][0-9]*\.com[^a-z] input: %s] by
dub-img-12.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.17) id TAA20862
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From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:39:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Bennett in Manchester Metro News
> >"He wouldn't expect people to block roads but he is doing the same
> >thing to public rights of way."
> Is a road (private roads excepted) not a public right of way ?
No. A RoW is on the D Iffy Map. Or so the arguement goes. But yes,
you do have the right to pass and re-pass.
> Is Bennett likely to campaign openly for the removal of obstructions that
> prevent vehicles being used on BOATs and UCRs ?
cj
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From: Chris Marsden <Byway@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:39:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Firemans second jobs
> Yes you can have
> a "2nd job" outside the fire service - this includes being self-employed
> e.g. cabbie.
> But:
> * you must have permission from the Chief Officer
Might be worth checking, but I think there might be another, that it
doesn't bring the Service into disrepute. Several valid complaints might
make his boss reconsider.
> 73s and 88s
> a "2nd job" outside the fire service - this includes being self-employed
Too late, morse went out yesterday, _ _ . . . . . . _ _
_ . _. . . . . . _ . . . . . .
>.
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 99 03:37 GMT0
Subject: Re: Firemans second jobs, Morse Code, OS Omossions
Chris says it might be worth checking, I really am not the most suitable
person since I have never dealt with the guy and Im a long way from his
patch, will the Next Volunteer kindly step into the ring?
...and congrats go to CJM for being the first to spot the dots and hack
teh dashes:-)
and he points out a _basic_ error on my part in my posts on OS omissions
<<<<<[BTW isn't CoCo Countryside Commission?]>>>>
Yes of course, the CoCo (wasnt he a clown?) that I meant was County
Councils. BGWM, peeps, Im a bit Hoddled atm.
73s and 88s
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: doghouse@cix.compulink.co.uk (Michael Dyer)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 99 03:37 GMT0
Subject: Re: Ridgeway Potential TRO
<With a Deep Breath, Daniel walks into the loins den, ignoring the gentle
snoring from within>
What contributes a lot to public perception must be the off-road (yes, in
the real sense) motrocycles who congregate every w/e to run drag-strips
down teh Ridgeway. No plates, arriving in vans/Toyota pickups, very swift
and noisy. Perfect fodder for the antis. 4x4s are just as 'intrusive' to
Joe Public, but certainly less motion-filled and probably a little quieter.
I apologise totally for doing summat in this post that I should NEVEr do,
namely point a finger at 'the other guy', Yes My RR looks the same to an
uneducated eye, and I am an ex-mobiker myself. I don't want to get a
nah-nah debate going, PLEASE don't come round to my house and break my
legs or eat my cats, forgive me, etc, etc.
If we are to maintain reasonable access we must get our own act(s)
together.
73s and 88s
:-) Mick Dyer (doghouse@cix)
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:36:56 -0000
Subject: Re: Wilts again
You write:
Odd really, I used to get your stuff in
clear, until you abandoned AOL.
many problem area eliminated by using the same ISP.
Dave Tilbury
Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
http://www.hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
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From: "Dave Tilbury" <Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:02:46 -0000
Subject: Wilts - the hard way
Right this is the text:
21January, 1999
_~
Rural freedom brings worries
GREATER access for all to the countryside could lead to it being turned
into a playground for'townies'.
The fear over the Government's controversial move was voiced at a
meeting
attended by more than 100 concerned farmers and landowners at Coombe
Bissett village hall on Thursday night.
They were discussing the Countryside Commission's recently published
document Rights of Was in the 21st Century which they fear will accelerate
the process of opening up routes to off-road recreational vehicles
Meeting organiser John Withers of the Sourh Wiltshire Rights as Preser
vation Group, told them:
If the document goes I ahead then the countryside could become a
playground for the urban popillation with development at the expense of the
countryside itself "
The meeting which attracted farmers and landowners from Wiltshire,
Hampshire and Berkshir-e. was told that the Government
had a national target, which involved pumping 150m of public funds into its
greater access project during the next five Sears
"The national target is wasteful in terms of time and money," said
Fovant
Parish Council chairman Janet Longden. "The process is already ridiculous
and never-ending and we would like to see a freeze on it '
As the law stands, the definitive local maps, which determine access,
are
compiled from histonc evidence, in some cases dating back to the Middle
Ages, the meeting heard.
Now routes, which in some cases were only ever used by primitive forms
of
transport centuries ago, are being opened up to motorised vehicles.
This has already led to Complaints of 4X4 vehicle users causing damage
to
routes, gaining illegal access and intimidating farmers.
Salisbury MP Robert Key told the meeting ''There are, of course some
responsible off roaders but many are unthinking bullies. He said that the
rural community had bent over backwards to find common ground with the 4x4
lobby.
In many cases damage caused to unsurfaced routes by recreational
vehicles
left them unusable for other recreational groups and resulted in hefty
repair bills. Other speakers included David Gardner of Gleam (the Green
Lanes Environmental Action Movement) a 1,000 member pressure group which
includes 64 MPs and I6 MEPs
"Why should we have to pay for the damage made by a small irresponsible
group of people exercising their rights?" he asked.
Wiltshire County councillor for Tisbury Bobbie Baddeley said:
We need to pehaps explore the option of tracks spacefically for 4x4s.
The meeting ended with a pledge from Mr Key to champion the countryside
cause.
"This issue has a very low priorty in Whitehall and has remained hidden.
This has got to change". he said.
"I will fight for a fresh approachwith a bold strike to attract the
attention of Government".
Should anyone be moved to write you could mention that we pay 16 quid a
week from our taxes to keep the greedy barstards in Range Rovers and Mercs
and we fee that free access to out statutory rights would not go amiss.
Further we only have 5% of the RoW network to start with.
Dave Tilbury
Dave@hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
http://www.hants-lanes.demon.co.uk
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