The UK/IERE Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 04:54:31 EST
From: steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com
Subject: Missing Thermostats & Rad blanking

  
From: Steve Reddock
Subject: Missing Thermostats & Rad blanking
Mike sed:
|diminishing returns at higher flow rates, showing that there is a rate
|which is not worth exceeding.

  
I rest my case.  Car manufacturers would set the flow rate to be at
the maximum as they can then run smaller cheaper rads.
  
Last night I found the article in MOCABOUT (the magazine of the
Midland Off-Road Club) it was spring 94 I think.
  
They show how to modify a radiator to ensure max cooling.  The theory
was that hot & cold water don't like to mix.  I could believe that,
but I'm not certain.  The mod they show will help with a rad which
is half clogged with mud.
  
Basically they blank off the header & footer tanks to ensure that
the water flows down one side of the rad, across the bottom to the
middle, up to the top, across to the other end then out of the
bottom, hence trebling the length of the cooling path.  If there is
a clear part of the rad, the water must all pass it this way.
  
The only problem is that they don't use LR series radiators!
The only way it will work (which explains why I couldn't work it out
on Thursday) is if the water enters the rad diagonally opposite the
exit.  ie top left when looking from the rear of a series rad.
  
So the first thing you need to do is move the entry point to the left
hand end of the rad.  Blanking off the hole where is used to be is
recommended :-).
  
Now for some ASCII art.
  
|????|?????????|
|O   |         |   Header tank   0 = hose
|____|_________|
  
|?????????|????|
|         |  O |   Footer tank
|_________|____|
  
Simply cut where the lines are beside each pipe and solder/braze/
gaffa tape a brass or copper plate to cut off most of the header tank.
The gaffa tape method of soldering is only for those who like total
loss cooling systems.  It doesn't matter if is is not blanked off
totally, most of the cross tank flow will be stopped.
  
I have not tried this, but it will probably work.
  
They also say to refit the thermostat, or a stat with the mechanism
removed (leaving the disc) to restrict the flow.
  
DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.
  
Have fun, Steve
  
Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:39:45 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Cylinder head lifting

Ian Robinson wrote:
> In message <2A79BED3A71@main2s.cf.ac.uk>, JAMES O-SHEA writes
> > how the hell do I lift 35kg of head and manifolds off the block and 
> > out of the engine bay? 

> If all else fails, disconect the fuel
> pipe (before the pump), disconect the electrics (before the coil) and
> razzle her over.

Now my reading of Mr O'Shea's query suggested that he wondered how to 
actually lift the head up and out of the engine bay. Because the head is 
secured with bolts, not studs, a good bashing to the sides of the 
head with a rubber mallet usually gets it free quite easily.

Your suggestion, Ian, might well work, but what height will the cylinder 
head reach when ignition occurs, and how many people are required to 
catch the falling cylinder head?

James, it would be easier if you took the exhaust manifold off first 
because that adds a lot of weight.

Since your deadline is well past, are you going to let us know if you 
succeeded?

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:56:40 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: SIII Front Prop Shaft

I visited Brooklyn Engineering in Chandlers Ford on Saturday to get a 
replacement front prop shaft for my SIII 88". Saw a nice one, with shiny 
new nuts and bolts and UJs and splines which seemed excellent. Crawled 
underneath in the rain and removed it.
When I got it home and nonchalently placed it next to the old one, I 
noticed it was about 3" longer.
Now I thought that all front prop shafts were the same length for all 
Series III vehiles.

What is this thing?

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 07:02:59 EST
From: steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com
Subject: SIII Front Prop Shaft

  
*** Resending note of 02/27/96 11:52
From: Steve Reddock
Subject: SIII Front Prop Shaft
David sed:
|When I got it home and nonchalently placed it next to the old one, I
|noticed it was about 3" longer.
|Now I thought that all front prop shafts were the same length for all
|Series III vehiles.
  
I thought they were too.  Could it be the 6 cyl was longer?  I am
sure they have a longer front chassis, could be the prop is longer
as well.  Dunno.
  
Forgive the facetious suggestion:  The prop has a sliding sleeve
joint, you did either compress or extend both props to the limit?
Didn't you?
  
I'm as confused as you, Steve
  

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 08:10:48 EST
From: steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com
Subject: Re: Cylinder head lifting

  
*** Resending note of 02/27/96 12:46
From: Steve Reddock
Subject: Re: Cylinder head lifting
|Ian Robinson wrote:
|> In message <2A79BED3A71@main2s.cf.ac.uk>, JAMES O-SHEA writes
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
|> pipe (before the pump), disconect the electrics (before the coil) and
|> razzle her over.
David then said:
|Now my reading of Mr O'Shea's query suggested that he wondered how to
|actually lift the head up and out of the engine bay. Because the head is
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
|because that adds a lot of weight.
|Since your deadline is well past, are you going to let us know if you
|succeeded?
  
Isn't every body missing the point?  I thought the question was
how do I lift 35kg of metal from the top of the engine without
getting a hernia.
  
The answer is a rope around a roof beam of the garage, with the
closest thing you can manage to a block and tackle.  Or a friend to
help.
  
Ian's suggestion did involve making sure there was no spark so the
height of the head should be minimal - IF THE AIM WHERE TO UNSTICK IT!
  
It does bring an amusing image to mind of somebody trying to remove
a head by Ian's method and the thing actually firing :-)  I thought
that HT leads where high tension not high tensile!
  
Could be a new olympic sport - head catch or something.
  

------------------------------

From: CJ BETTON N9203387 <n9203387@hud.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: SIII Front Prop Shaft
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 13:47:00 gmt

The question was:

>When I got it home and nonchalently placed it next to the old one, I
>noticed it was about 3" longer.
>Now I thought that all front prop shafts were the same length for all
>Series III vehiles.

The answer is: (hopefully)

It's a six cylinder propshaft.  The gearbox on six cylinders is further back 
than ordinary ones as the six cylinder is a longer engine. What was the 
motor that you took it off?

If you really want to know for certain weather it's a six cylinder send me 
the length of it and I'll go down my mates and measure his six cylinder 
propshaft.

Cheers,
Chris

------------------------------

From: JAMES O-SHEA <SAC3JNO@cardiff.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 13:12:52 GMT
Subject: Valve grinding

Thanks for everyones advise on how to get the cylinder head off. The 
way I finally did it was to lift the head from a very compromising 
position stardled over the engine with my left foot praying that the 
battery support plate would hold my weight, whilst a friend lifted 
the manifold. 

However, I now have even more boring questions for you...

1. I've tried clamping down the valve springs to remove the valves and 
replace the springs and oil-seals, but without success. The whole 
mechanism seems to move so no matter how far I compress the spring 
the collett thinigies will not budge. Exactly how are you meant to do 
this procedure anyway. I tried it by putting a solid wooden board 
under the head to protect it from the clamp, but I'm afraid to 
compress the springs too far because from what I can see if I 
compress it a distance greater than the height of the combustion 
chamber then the valves will crash into the block of wood that I'm 
using as a support! I need help on this one!

2. I also need to know a little more about valve grinding than the 
Haynes manual is telling me. I've got the suction grinder and paste 
ready. Do I grind the valves when the whole head is reassmebled (or 
even now as it stands with everything still in place) or do I have to 
remove the valves. Secondly, I've noticed that the valve face sticks 
out past the valve seat by about 1-2mm, do I need to grind the valve 
faces back so that they are flush with the valve seat?

A lot to read in your lunch break I know, but a tad easier to 
comprehend than heat transfer dynamics and flow equations.

James O'shea
SAC3JNO@Cardiff.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 96 14:11:38 EST
From: Miles.Smith@Telewest.co.uk (Miles Smith)
Subject: SIII front prop shaft

SIII front prop shaft
Would this be due to the spline on the shaft which allows it change
lenght.
When the axle moves up and down the distance from the tranfer box to the 
differential flange increases and decreases.  Does the shaft have a 
gaiter near the tranfer box end which protects the splined portion?

Hope this helps

Miles Smith

Amersham
Bucks   
  
Email:  miles.smith@telewest.co.uk

=========================================================================
I visited Brooklyn Engineering in Chandlers Ford on Saturday to get a 
replacement front prop shaft for my SIII 88". Saw a nice one, with shiny 
new nuts and bolts and UJs and splines which seemed excellent. Crawled 
underneath in the rain and removed it.
When I got it home and nonchalently placed it next to the old one, I 
noticed it was about 3" longer.
Now I thought that all front prop shafts were the same length for all 
Series III vehiles.

What is this thing?

-- 
David Olley
=========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 27 Feb 96 10:08:07 EST
From: <Glen_Rees@parlon2.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: SIII Front Prop Shaft

     Just to add to the confusion, I wasn't aware that the 6 cylinder was 
     ever put into the 88", or have I got that wrong as well, and we 
     talking 109" here?. 
     
     Maybe it's off a LandCruser, not LandRover?!"$$%   
     
     Don't hit me!!
     
     R  1  3        H
     +--|--|   FWD  |
        2  4        L            '55 Series One
                              (25 YEAR TAX EXEMPT)  
     
     Glenn

------------------------------

From: CJ BETTON N9203387 <n9203387@hud.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Valve grinding
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 16:19:00 gmt

James wrote:

>1. I've tried clamping down the valve springs to remove the valves and
>replace the springs and oil-seals, but without success. The whole
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>chamber then the valves will crash into the block of wood that I'm
>using as a support! I need help on this one!

The basic idea is to compress the spring without moving the valve.

Either go out and buy a valve spring compressor or build one. All you need 
is an old G clamp. Drill a half inch hole in the foot end of the clamp. To 
use, put the foot with the hole directly above the collets. Then put the 
screw end of the clamp on the face of the valve (other side of cylinder 
head). screw the clamp down and it should compress the spring, allowing you 
to remove the collets.

>2. I also need to know a little more about valve grinding than the
>Haynes manual is telling me. I've got the suction grinder and paste
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>out past the valve seat by about 1-2mm, do I need to grind the valve
>faces back so that they are flush with the valve seat?

You remove the collets and then put paste on the back of the valve. Stick 
the sucker on the stick to the face of the valve, and then put the valve 
back in the head and rotate the stick backwards and forwards until the valve 
seat and valve are free of pits etc. Make sure that the grinding paste is 
uniformly spread about when doing this.

Being lazy, I didn't use the stick, but put the stem of the valve in my 
variable speed drill and used this to rotate the valve slowly. Use this 
method entirely at your own risk!

Don't forget to wipe all traces of grinding paste off before reassembly!
If you grind it back flush there'll be no valve left :-)

Hope the above helps,
Chris.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 11:17:26 EST
From: steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com
Subject: Valve grinding

  
From: Steve Reddock
Subject: Valve grinding
James, I think you are not using your valve spring compressor in the
approved manner.
  
Here is my technique:
  
1: Place tube over valve end cap. A socket will do, but a piece of tube
you don't mind clanging is better. The internal diameter should be large
enough to allow the valve stem to travel through, with enough length to
allow for an inch of travel (you won't need that much). The idea is to
break the grip of the collet (2 bits which fit into the notches on the
valve) on the plate bit (can't remember the technical term). To break
the grip sharply tap the tube with a hammer. The valve spring should
bounce down as the grip is released. In case there is any doubt this is
the other end of the valve to the combustion chamber! Repeat for each
valve. There should be no observable difference after this so don't be
surprized. The idea is just to make life easier for the spring
compressor. Your block of wood under the head is a good idea at this
point!
  
2: Put forked end of compressor on collet end of valve so that collet
can pass through hole. Put other end on valve head in combustion
chamber. Adjust adjustable bit so valve spring is going to be compressed
when you work compressor. When you work the compressor the valve should
not move. The idea is that the plate on top of the spring is pulled down
towards the combustion chamber to allow the collets to be removed. Then
simply remove the collets and gently remove the compressor.
  
This is simpler than it sounds - I could show you in about 30 sec.
I am not even going to attempt an ascii diag though.
  
Top top: when replacing valves stick the collets to the valve stem with
a little grease so they don't drop out when you try releasing the
compressor.
  
Have fun, Steve
  
Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 18:44:24 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Valve grinding

JAMES O-SHEA wrote:
> Exactly how are you meant to do this procedure anyway. 

The best way is to equip yourself properly if you are going to attempt 
major engine overhaul work. If not you will end up with bigger bills as 
a result of damage which you will do to your engine.

A decent valve spring compressor can be bought for about 17 pounds from 
any auto store that stocks Draper tools. This will last you for life. 
It's use is obvious (especially to a university student - even if you 
are studying arts!). The Haynes manual instructions on valve grinding 
are pretty concise, I think. The purpose of grinding is merely to 
restore a gas tight seal between the valve face and the seat, so only 
remove the amount of metal which is necessary to achieve a smooth, 
unpitted surface. If the valve or seat faces are very badly eroded, then 
new valves and refaced seats is the best plan. Check the condition of 
the guides before replacing just the valves, though. New valves in worn 
guides will wear out rapidly. Reground valves that are wobbling about in 
their guides will also damage themselves and the seats quickly.

Getting the right tools always pays off in the end.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

From: Ben Leamy <B.K.C.Leamy@uel.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:13:49 GMT
Subject: Looking to buy a LWB SIIA/III

Hi everyone,

I am looking to buy a LWB SIIA or III, prefer 5 door station wagon
and a deisel engine.

Anyone, know of something similar for sale? (around 500-800 pounds)

I live in east london.

Also, a couple of questions.
I know that the 2.25 deisel is SLOW but how much difference will 
having FWH and OverDrive make to road speed and fuel consumption?

How easy is it to get hold of a overdrive and free-wheeling hubs, and 
what kind of money? I need to know how important it is to but a 
LandRover that already has OD and FWH.

Anyone care to comment on the pros & cons of SIII gearboxes compared 
to SIIA? Should that be a major issue to me when looking at SIIA/SIII 
LandRovers?

Ben.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 12:03:19 +0000
From: Ian Robinson <ian@fourx4.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Cylinder head lifting

In message <3132ED81.2F8F@tcp.co.uk>, David Olley at New Concept
<newconcept@tcp.co.uk> writes
>Ian Robinson wrote:
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>actually lift the head up and out of the engine bay. Because the head is 
>secured with bolts, not studs, a good bashing to the sides of the 
>head with a rubber mallet usually gets it free quite easily.

Having re read the message you're correct seems it's a strength problem!
>Your suggestion, Ian, might well work, but what height will the cylinder 
>head reach when ignition occurs, and how many people are required to 
>catch the falling cylinder head?
>> > how the hell do I lift 35kg of head and manifolds off the block and 

Even you missed this one :-). Ignition won't occur 'cos no fuel + no
spark = no bang !!!!
>James, it would be easier if you took the exhaust manifold off first 
>because that adds a lot of weight.
>catch the falling cylinder head?
>> > how the hell do I lift 35kg of head and manifolds off the block and 
But we find it useful for something to grip. Invariably once the head is
loose one of us stands in the engine bay with legs straddling the engine
and lifts it off swings it around to balance on top of the radiator
panel whilst getting out of the bay.

>Since your deadline is well past, are you going to let us know if you 
>succeeded?
>catch the falling cylinder head?

Regards, Ian
                Forest Landrovers' 4 x 4 Centre
                Royal Forest of Dean, Glos, UK
                +44 (0)1594 822606/(0)402 000132

------------------------------

From: Trefor Delve <delve1t@nectech.co.uk>
Subject: Looking to buy a LWB SIIA/III
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 96 20:15:00 GMT

All,

Prompted by Bens question about SII/SIII gearboxes, I wonder if anyone   
knows the (alleged) truth about the difference in their strengths.

I have been told in the past that the SIIA 'box is stonger than the SIII   
by virtue of not having synchromesh.  This is I suppose is believable but   
perhaps there are some better informed persons out there.

Trefor.
tdelve@nectech.co.uk

Ps. Did you fix your gearbox Steve ?.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 16:01:40 GMT
From: Gerald Tan <gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Valve grinding

In your message dated Tuesday 27, February 1996 you wrote :
> 1. I've tried clamping down the valve springs to remove the valves and 
> replace the springs and oil-seals, but without success. The whole 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)]
> chamber then the valves will crash into the block of wood that I'm 
> using as a support! I need help on this one!

Are you using a valve-spring compressor? If you are, it doesn't sound as if 
you're using it correctly.  Make sure you get one with jaws wide enough to fit 
around the cylinder head. The clamp base fits under the valve, and the forked 
end around the valve springs, when you squeeze the valve-spring compressor, it 
compresses the springs (valves don't move), and exposes the collets so you can 
pick them out with some needle-nose pliers.

> 2. I also need to know a little more about valve grinding than the 
> Haynes manual is telling me. I've got the suction grinder and paste 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
> out past the valve seat by about 1-2mm, do I need to grind the valve 
> faces back so that they are flush with the valve seat?

Remove all valves (& springs), keep them numbered in order. Clean the base of 
the valve up until it's shining (wire wool, wet 'n dry), pop the sucker onto the 
valve. Smear the tiniest amount of coarse paste onto the valve seat, spin 
(rotate) the wooden sucker in your palms with the valve in it's seat, with the 
lightest pressure. After a while, go onto the fine paste. Grind (correct term is 
lap) until it looks and feels like a good seal (don't go too deep).

It's quite difficult to quantify how much to lap, it all depends on the amount 
of pitting present, condition of seats etc. A reasonable test is to re-assemble 
the valve gear (springs and all), turn the head so that the combustion chamber 
top is facing upwards, and pour a small amount of petrol onto the valve seats. 
If it doesn't leak into the valve guides, you've got a pretty good seal.

Best of luck, Gerald 
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerald Tan    EMail gtan@bbchw.demon.co.uk                              |
| Purely my own opinions - not those of my employer                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Subject: Leaf-Sprung Time
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 1996 01:18:20 -0500
From: William Caloccia <caloccia@OpenMarket.com>

Mike Rooth writes:
>What the devil all these people are in such a *hurry* for I just dont know.

Well, Mike, a couple weeks back, I went from Boston, Ma to Rochester, NY  to 
participate in a Road Rally (Time-Speed-Distance type, what you folks have
between stages).  That was oh say 380 miles across both states. Now, in
the UK that would pretty much get me from London to oh, say somewhere near
Edinburgh. Then we ran the rallye (a mere 145 miles in the cold (~-15C), and
dark of night), turned about and drove back, and I would have had to done
another  120 miles or so each way to make it out to see the Limey in Exile. 

We made good time, but I hazard to think what it would have been in 
leaf-sprung time :-)

And we really didn't push the Rangie, just your normal motorway speeds,
down to 65 or so through the storm on the trip out Friday night. 
 ---
Then last weekend I went to take my S.IIa to Clinton, and that trip took
the better part of two hours, but now that's leaf-sprung time for ya,
and when you're on leaf-sprung time, why not stop off and visit a friend or
two along the way? (Hey, what's another half-hour in leaf sprung time ?)

So I dropped in on Jim Pappas at LR Metro West, swilled their java and
doughnuts then told the yuppies, why they really want to buy a new one
from Jim instead of buying a drafty old beast with character :-)

	----------------

Well, I gave Martin at Land Rover Replacments in Dewsbury a bell this
morning, and he tells me that while the dual charging system shorted
and fried large amounts plastic surrounding the cable to the non-existant
second battery, the rest of the vehicle managed to not to go up in smoke.

He made the repairs and has since sold the white money pit, er Rangie, to some
punter, as is.  So, if you see DAJ802L on the road (or at it's favorite hang
out - the petrol station), it isn't mine anymore. But I reckon with that
Vitesse block, it will still be wicked fast for a -L reg.

    Cheers,
        --bill  	caloccia@OpenMarket.com
                 http://www.OpenMarket.com/personal/caloccia/
				  N
				  D
   R  1  3  2wd  H             L  3     
   +--|--|   o   |             |  2
      2  4  4wd  L             H  1
   '63 SIIa RHD 88"       '90 RR County
      793-PTA 

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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