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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:52:06 GMT
From: Jason Price <jasonp@parallax.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bull Bars

Perhaps I can shed a little light on the UK bull bar issue by letting you in
on the reply I got from my MP (Sir Patrick Mayhew, NI Secretary) when I wrote
to him about it.  He contacted the department of Transport and the reply he
got went something along the lines of...

The Dept. of Transport has asked the UK police forces to collect pedestrian
accident statistics for those accidents with bull bars specifically.  21 police
forces have agreed and have been providing the real data on which the dept.
of Transport has based the government's school of thought on this.

of the 20,000 or so pedestrian accidents and fatalities reported, there were
less than 1,000 involving bull bars (that's fatalities and non fatalities).
Of fatal accidents, we're down to 3 figures of all accidents, so the number of
accidents currently involving bull bars is positively miniscule.  However, not
wishing to have the 'they'll increase as the numbers go up' argument, i did a
little bit of percentage style calculation on this to address the real issue.

Of pedestrian accidents, fatalities caused by the group of non-bull bar fitted
vehicles amount for just under 1.5% of all accidents involving non-bull bar
fitted vehicles.

of pedestrian accidents for bull bar fitted vehicles, fatalities account for
marginally over 2% of all accidents involving bull bar fitted vehicles.

now considering the shape and size of most 4x4 style vehicles that have bull
bars fitted to them, I don't really think that an increase of less than .75%
in the likelihood of fatalities can be justifiable cause to ban bull bars as
the horrific pedestrian maimers that they are.

Reports such as those on BBC Watchdog and the like usually tend to take the
moral high ground by comparing the vehicular equivalents of an apple and
orange (i.e. a 20mph accident in a ford fiesta and a LR with bull bars!).  I've
never seen anyone yet do a like comparison between the different types of
vehicle without bull bars (if you get my point?).  These figures from the real
accident statistics collected by police will be far more accurate in that
respect, as they classify the accidents (fatal and non-fatal) from distinct
groups of 'bull bar fitted or not fitted' vehicles, rather than trying to draw
conclusions on bull bar fitted accidents from a group of all vehicles.

The concluding statement was that the department of transport is continuing to
collate these statistics from police forces and feels, until there is suitably
convincing evidence available from the results, it would be an unnecessary
imposition on a tiny minority of vehicles when there is no appreciable evidence
that it's all that serious.  basically, they weren't going to do anything for
at least another 2 years, by which time they'll have enough statistics to 
genuinely show whether or not bull bars are in fact a danger.

>Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 15:34:00 GMT
>Subject: Re: More on bull bars
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)]
>> point - they never get to be law.
>Not true - they 'rarely' get to be law - but some do.
Only with government support, which isn't forthcoming at the moment, as shown
above.

>A bull bar - not deforming - would of course cause greater damage to 
>the object it hits before the energy of the impact was used and it is 
>argued that it is more likely to kill.
>It sounds kinda possible, but I have seen no evidence suggested.
there isn't any strong evidence from the real figures provided.  Okay, bull
bar fatalities out of all bull bar accidents are slightly (<1%) up on the
non-bull bar vehicles, but I would argue that you can put most of that down
to the size and shape of the typical bull bar wearing vehicle.

let's face it, if my 110 hits someone at 30mph, they're really not likely to
get up, whether or not I've got a bull bar on it.

hope this helps to reassure some of you out there that the UK Government seem
to be taking a very realistic and serious approach to the issue.  Quite what
the lunatics over in Brussels are up to, I can't comment on though.

Jason
--
Jason E Price                                 |\      _,,,---,,_     	 
Parallax Solutions, Coventry, U.K.      ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_ 	 
Tel: +44 (0)1203 693633 x2274                |,@-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-' 	 
jasonp@parallax.co.uk                       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)

------------------------------

From: "Paul Hazell" <p.hazell@worc.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:05:52 +0000
Subject:       cold engine problems - cured

As promised I took my carb apart on my lightweight this weekend (re cold engine problems 
last week) and I thought some readers *may* be interested in my experiences.

I seem to have solved the problem. Friday I got hold of an overhaul kit for my Zenith 36 IV 
(16.25 + VAT) and went about removing the carb from the Lt/wt. Once off I *carefully* took 
it apart and cleaned everything. As was suggested by various people on the list the engine 
was indeed running over rich (rather sooty plugs) which was in turn not helping the cold 
start situation and the running on when the ignition was switched off. The over richness it 
seems was due to a combination of factors such as the floats in the carb being wrongly set, 
a worn spindle on the throttle butterfly and the mixture screw being wrongly set (I know I 
should of checked this first). 

The cold start problem was not helped by the fact that the choke butterfly did not close as 
far as it should i.e. within about 1mm of the internal walls of the carb. I readjusted this 
which helped considerably!

I replaced all the jets, reset floats, replaced gaskets etc. and put it all back together. 
the LR started first time so I let it warm up and went about setting the mixture. The Feb. 
LRO article about Zeniths said that when the mixture screw was turned right in the engine 
should stall. Mine didn't - in fact it seemed to make very little difference. I put back 
the old mixture screw and this worked much better. I assume the old screw and the carb 
casting are worn to a perfect match and this allowed me to drop the revs progressively in 
the way it's meant too.

Having done all this I took it down to my local carburation centre for a proper tune. This 
went fine, well within MOT regs (cost 3 quid). The chap told me the casting the spindle 
runs through is rather worn and could do with being re-bushed (cost: about 10 quid) I may 
get this done next weekend. HOWEVER, I'd lost all my acceleration. Too lean maybe? I had 
another look at the photos in the LRO article and suddenly had a thought. Had I put the 
accelerator pump back in the right way around? (its not that clear in the Haynes manual). I 
took the carb apart again and indeed I had. Once reversed "acceleration" re-tuned.

The engine now runs MUCH better, right from cold! The total cost of the job was about 22 
quid and a days work (32 if I get the casting re-bushed). Considering a reconditioned 
Zenith is about the 80 pound mark I thought this was pretty good value - and I learnt allot 
in the process. The moral: if you've got a dodgy carb don't be frightened to overhaul it 
yourself :-)

Paul Hazell (SIII Lt/wt 1972)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 10:35:58 GMT
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: very sick engine

>Is this the time to be thinking of a different engine.  Is this worth
>considering.  Funds are limited (at present to less than the 4k quoted
>- hence one problem).

4 grand seems a bit on the steep side of astronomical for a replacement
engine, especially a reconditioned one. I would think that a second opinion
from another garage would be in order!
It wasn't a franchised LR dealer that quoted this price by any chance?

-------------------------------------
Tom Stevenson  gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland

Tel 01475 530581
Fax 01475 530601
-------------------------------------

------------------------------

From: "Paul Hazell" <p.hazell@worc.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:01:24 +0000
Subject:       speedo problems

My speedo seems to suffer from a few problems. I wondered if anybody could help.

Symptoms:

The needle seems to "bounce"  at about the 50mph mark, it sometimes sticks at 30mph when 
your doing considerably more than this and it reads about 10mph under what it should. Any 
advice? 

Paul Hazell (SIII Lt/wt 1972)

      _________________________
     /                         \
    /___________________________\
    ||            |            ||
    ||     .______|______.     ||
    ||-----|             |-----|| 
/-\ ||----_|_____________|_----|| /-\
\_/ |    / +++++++++++++++ \    | \_/
   \|   / +++++++(_)+++++++ \   |/
    -----\ +++++++++++++++ /-----
    |/ \ | +++++++++++++++ | / \|
    |\_/ | +++++++++++++++ | \_/|
    _____  +++++++++++++++  _____
    |___|    ._________.    |___|
    _|_|_____|ERL  339K|_____|_|_
    |___________________________|
    |   |        \__/       |   |
    |   |                   |   |
    |___|                   |___|

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:12:49 GMT
From: "Allery, Mark" <M.Allery@mars.ee.surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: speedo problems

     Mine ('65 88) also exhibits strange behaviour - not uncommon in an old 
     and somewhat damp environment. My knowledge is more based upon hearsay 
     than dependable experience, so I'm open to the comments/corrections 
     from the guru's but:
     
     I think it might well be the needle 'drive' which is some kind of 
     magnetic/friction drive rather than a direct connection. As the needle 
     gets older and less lubricated - sometimes freezing conditions make it 
     worse - the needle is harder to drive around the dial "allegedly" Its 
     possible some WD40 might be useful if I knew where to introduce it!
     
     Any other suggestions might be more correct!
     
     cheers
     
     Mark

> Subject: speedo problems
> Author:  "Paul Hazell" <p.hazell@worc.ac.uk> at internet

	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)]
> advice? 
> Paul Hazell (SIII Lt/wt 1972)

------------------------------

From: "Paul Hazell" <p.hazell@worc.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:44:38 +0000
Subject:       Perkins problems...

I was talking to a mate at lunch time about his SIII Perkins powered 109". He was saying 
when he looks at the inside of his oil filler cap there is a creamy residue on the inside. 
Oh dear, I thought, isn't this the symptom of coolant and oil mixing? He said at times you 
actually get water droplets dripping of when you fist lift he cap! Can any one advice (he's 
not on email so replies via me please).

Also he says that his maximum speed is 50mph (with overdrive and FWH) and it's "as if the 
engine still has more 'go' put there is some sort of 'barrier'" (his words, not mine), I 
would of thought he could expect a *bit* more. Yes?

Paul Hazell (SIII Lt/wt 1972)

      _________________________
     /                         \
    /___________________________\
    ||            |            ||
    ||     .______|______.     ||
    ||-----|             |-----|| 
/-\ ||----_|_____________|_----|| /-\
\_/ |    / +++++++++++++++ \    | \_/
   \|   / +++++++(_)+++++++ \   |/
    -----\ +++++++++++++++ /-----
    |/ \ | +++++++++++++++ | / \|
    |\_/ | +++++++++++++++ | \_/|
    _____  +++++++++++++++  _____
    |___|    ._________.    |___|
    _|_|_____|ERL  339K|_____|_|_
    |___________________________|
    |   |     \__/          |   |
    |   |                   |   |
    |___|                   |___|

------------------------------

From: PETER ESTIBEIRO - CGR <PETERE@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk>
Date:          Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:48:34 +0000
Subject:       Re: G/Box noise identity ????

Stu

>>The noise: well, it kinda sounds like a small bell
>>being tinkled constantly, a sort of dingalinggalinggaling.
>>if you know what I mean(sorry if you don't, but this is

I've once heard a noise like this.  It was the nut on the back of the 
mainshaft that holds the overdrive clutch-sleeve on.  It should be 
very very tight and locked with a tab washer which in turn locates 
onto the splines on the shaft.  What had happened was the washer was 
worn on the splines and had allowed the nut to slip fractionally so 
it was just loose and the clutch sleeve was ringing against the 
mainshaft splines.  Unfortunately you have to take the overdrive off 
to check this (so check other things first, it could be prop-shafts 
or hand-brake drum which are loose).  BTW I've never managed to 
remove my overdrive without hurting my hand as it suddenly comes free 
and bangs into the chassis (my hand acting as a buffer to protect the 
overdrive).  If you have to get a new lock washer, get it from 
Superwinch rather than Landrover as the ones for use with overdrive 
are slightly different from the ones for use without.
Cheers
Peter

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 14:49:00 GMT
From: "Allery, Mark" <M.Allery@mars.ee.surrey.ac.uk>
Subject: more cold engines

     
     Talk of cold engines has prompted to als a question
     
     Having replaced my Carb with a Weber I started to experience bizarre 
     problems. symptoms: engine starts to missfire and loses power 
     eventually slowing to a crawl and being necessary to pull over. % 
     minutes on the side of the road - either ticking over (if possible) or 
     engine off caused recovery - but same might happen 15 minutes down the 
     road. Tended to occur when cold and dark during the winter - unusual 
     on journeys shorter than 10 miles.
     
     Never used to hapen with the orignal Zenith. Engine doesn't seem to 
     run very hot and does show a little colder during the winter. 
     Generally assumed to be 'Sh***ed; since I never get the S111 lwb going 
     faster than 50-55mph anyway! The only thing I could think of was that 
     the carb was getting cold and the fuel not vapourising hence overrich 
     and 'choking' - any comments ideas or thoughts welcome?
     
     cheers,
     
     Mark 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 14:59:10 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: speedo problems

Paul Hazell wrote:
> My speedo  needle seems to "bounce"  at about the 50mph mark, it
> sometimes sticks at 30mph when you're doing considerably more than
> this and it reads about 10mph under what it should. Any advice?

The Manual tells how to make the adjustment. You have to remove the rear 
prop shaft, take off the tranny brake drum, then tighten the castellated 
nut (remove split pin). The speedo worm is driven by friction and yours 
is probably slipping.

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

Date: 11 Mar 96 10:19:41 EST
From: Richard Brownlee <101360.3273@compuserve.com>
Subject: Cooling Systems

Ref:   Water wetter

This solution seems to have two properties - a corrosion inhibitor, which any
good antifreeze will have anyway, and a detergent or similar base which will
reduce the surface tension of water and in effect make it wetter. This will
prevent the formation of air bubbles as the water surrounding the bubble will
not have enough surface tension to form the wall of the bubble.

I hope this is making sense as I am confusing myself.

 BTW some fire extinguishers have wetting agents in them to increase the
'soakability' of water.

Dishwasher rinse aid also works in this way - with less surface tension in the
water you dont get water marks etc.

I haven't tried it in my Rangie though - bubbles might be a problem.

Best wishes to anyone and everyone.

Richard Brownlee

72 109 1 Ton. Tetley (1000 perforations in every chassis)
77 Range Rover - new toy -no name as yet.  Soon to be painted pink (74 XJ6
colour) so will come up with a name then.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:24:46 +0000 (WET)
From: Peter Venters <venters@atm.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Perkins problems...

On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, Paul Hazell wrote:

> I was talking to a mate at lunch time about his SIII Perkins powered 109". He was saying 
> when he looks at the inside of his oil filler cap there is a creamy residue on the inside. 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)]
> actually get water droplets dripping of when you fist lift he cap! Can any one advice (he's 
> not on email so replies via me please).

Doesn't sound good - a confirmation might be if the vehicle is losing water.

> Also he says that his maximum speed is 50mph (with overdrive and FWH) and it's "as if the 
> engine still has more 'go' put there is some sort of 'barrier'" (his words, not mine), I 
> would of thought he could expect a *bit* more. Yes?
> actually get water droplets dripping of when you fist lift he cap! Can any one advice (he's 

Especially if the engine in question is the Perkins 4.203 (approx 3.3 litre
capacity) the chances are that he is running out of revs before he runs
out of power (diesels are governed to run at not more than a preset number
of revolutions). From what I remember, the 4.203 has very high torque, but
has a rather low maximum rev setting (2600?). The only way out of this,
other than tweaking the governer screw and risking an engine auto-destruct
(especially if it is running on a mix of water and oil!) is to increase
the gearing. As the gear ratio increases, there will come a point when 
the vehicle begins to run out of power, before it runs out of revs; this 
always assumes no other limiting features, such as overall sound level.

As your mate already has an overdrive, increasing the gear ratio is most
commonly done by fitting larger tyres giving an increase of about 13% (?)
from the little (6.00x16) to the large (7.50x16) ones, or by changing the
differential ratio. The standard ratio is 4.7; Rover car diffs of 4.3 or
Range Rover diffs of 3.54 ratios are bolt in replacements. 

If the engine is the 4.182 (3l capacity) the argument still applies, but 
you have less room to increase the gear ratio before running out of power.

If the engine is anything smaller than the 4.182, then seeming to have 
more "go" is an illusion!

Hope this helps,

Peter (86" Series 1, Perkins 4.182)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 08:54:13 -0700
From: r.haaland@physics.ox.ac.uk (ryan haaland)
Subject: unsubscribe uk-lro@land-rover.team.net

unsubscribe uk-lro@land-rover.team.net

------------------------------

From: JAMES O-SHEA <SAC3JNO@cardiff.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:55:13 GMT
Subject: Re: cold engine problems - cured

I also seem to experiencing a few carb related problems, the one that 
tend to get me head-butting the windscreen most of all is that 
sometimes when I pull up at lights and let the revs drop a little, 
the bloody thing cuts out. This was cured about 6 months ago by my 
father who messed about with the mixture controls on the weber carb, 
but it seems to have come back since I took the head off to do the 
valves (this of course meant taking the carb off too).  The other 
thing bothering me is that when I start accelerating in any gear 
except fourth, there seems to be a period of very low power sometimes 
resulting in me going slow enough to stall, until a certain point 
when the whole car seems to pick up and shoot off with lighteneing 
speed. Is this a carb problem or is it something else. Of course LRO 
have not yet done an overhaul feature on the weber carb so if anybody 
has got any advice or even a guid to the overhaul job then I would be 
very grateful.

James O'shea
SAC3JNO@Cardiff.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:22:29 +0000 (WET)
From: Peter Venters <venters@atm.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe uk-lro@land-rover.team.net

On Mon, 11 Mar 1996, ryan haaland wrote:

> unsubscribe uk-lro@land-rover.team.net

Hello Ryan,

How are you - have/did you got/get (gotten?) away with it, the dphil that 
is? Hope u r ok and sorry to have missed your departure. Let me know if 
you want any Land-Rovers posted to you.

I think you are emailing the wrong place to un-subscribe, try the following
emailing majordomo@Land-Rover.team.net, as described below:

All the best,

Peter

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Reply to: Land-Rover-Owner@playground.sun.com
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------------------------------

From: Graeme Booth <Graeme.Booth@src.bae.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 17:53:32 GMT
Subject: Weber restoration

>>>>> "JAMES" == JAMES O-SHEA <SAC3JNO@cardiff.ac.uk> writes:

    JAMES> I also seem to experiencing a few carb related problems,
<snip>
    JAMES> Of course LRO have not yet done an overhaul feature on the
    JAMES> weber carb so if anybody has got any advice or even a guid
    JAMES> to the overhaul job then I would be very grateful.

I agree! If anyone can be bothered enough to give a few tips on the
things people should be looking for when stripping down their carb,
I'm sure there would be a favourable response. I don't know, IS there
a web page for such a thing???
   
Looking forward to it..........

Graeme
--
     ___________________
    |---------_---------|
    |         |         |	        
  n |_________|________ | n              Graeme Booth
  U |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| U          Applied Aerodynamics
   ]_|___==_=====_==___|_[               BAe SRCx3949
   |  _ | ######### | _  |	
   |o(_)|  #######  |(_)o|      "Why is 1st class at the front 
   |____|__#######__|____|    of the plane? When was the last time
  [_______________________]	a plane backed in to a mountain?"
   |\/\|    \___/    |/\/|	       - 'The Big Yin' (B.C.)
   |\/\|             |/\/|        
   |\/\|             |/\/|       
(1975 series III Lightweight)

------------------------------

From: i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 19:33:55 GMT
Subject: Re: Insurance for Africa Expedition

Hi all 

It's yet another Africa expedition question. It just goes to show that
the answers I'm getting are useful! This time it's insurance. Whats the
best way to get the LR insured. Through a standard company (any
recommndations ?) or do you have to take it out in the indivdual
counries when you get there. I suppose that this depends on where you
are going!

Any comments?

Cheers Ian
P.S. Whens Hamish MacBeth coming back?

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:08:58 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: more cold engines

Mark - you wrote:
>     Talk of cold engines has prompted to als a question

>     Having replaced my Carb with a Weber I started to experience bizarre 
>     problems. symptoms: engine starts to missfire and loses power 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)]
>     and 'choking' - any comments ideas or thoughts welcome?
>     cheers,
   
>     Mark 

Sounds like your carb is icing. Typical sign would be black smoke from the 
exhaust, which you don`t mention; the rest fits. The icing  usually happens 
when it is damp and the temperature is a little above freezing. The air 
going through your carb speeds up a lot, which means it cools down a little 
bit (maybe 3-5 degrees C). That is enough for ice to form in the air 
passages of your carburettor. Then, when you stop the engine and let it sit 
for 5 minutes or so, the ice melts and the engine will start again. This 
game can be repeated ad lib.

I have no idea what kind of possibilities the SIII has. Generally speaking a 
radiator muffler would help; another possibility is to try and get some hot 
air from around the exhaust manifold into the carb. A Jan. 1, 1951 Internal 
Service Bulletin describes the symptoms and recommends to "Raise the 
under-bonnet temperature by blanking-off part of the radiator grill panel, 
especially below the R. H. headlamp (in the SI; in the SIII it would be the 
right-hand hole in the breakfast). By experimenting with baffles of varying 
size a cure can usually be effected."

Connecting the carb to the airflow from the exhaust manifold or the top 
rocker cover breather generally helps in winter, but requires some changes 
to the carb and might get forgotten until it will cause problems in the summer.
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:29:56 +0100
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Weber restoration

>>>>>> "JAMES" == JAMES O-SHEA <SAC3JNO@cardiff.ac.uk> writes:
>    JAMES> I also seem to experiencing a few carb related problems,
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)]
>a web page for such a thing???
>Looking forward to it..........
>Graeme

Dear all - I have nothing on the Weber, but LROI had articles on Solex 
overhaul (SI - June 95, SII/IIA August 95) and Zenith 36 IV overhaul 
(February 96). They seemed pretty good to me, but the job is still ahead of me. 
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:33:25 GMT
From: nickfull@pavilion.co.uk (NickFuller)
Subject: Re: Bull Bars

>let's face it, if my 110 hits someone at 30mph, they're really not likely to
>get up, whether or not I've got a bull bar on it.

Especially if the 235-85/16's on each corner don,t get them first !

> the UK Government seem
>to be taking a very realistic and serious approach to the issue.

Sorry for the pessimism , but is this not the same Government that every
year has a campaign condemning the 
actions of Drink Drivers who , IMHO , DO KILL LARGE NUMBERS OF INNOCENT
PEOPLE - most of whom are not in the same situation as pedestrian victims ,
and yet still do not ban it.
Where is the justice ?

 >Quite what the lunatics over in Brussels are up to, I can't comment on though.

 Probably the same as those in the UK

 The trouble with the freedom of the Media to report with inaccuracy is that
the Truth gets suppressed
 to the extent where hysteria takes over .

Only my views of course !

Nick
110 TD CSW

---- You need have no idea to be clever, just clever to have an idea -----

------------------------------

  END OF LAND ROVER OWNER DIGEST 
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