The UK/IERE Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:05:28 +0100 (BST)
From: "Dr.P.A.Rubini" <P.A.Rubini@cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

This is perhaps a naive question but do any UK insurance companies cover
for off road use, either for byways (which I thought all should) or for
the typical non-competitive off road course. I enquire because I had 
originally thought that my policy was valid for non-competitive 
situations - it is most likely that many people (well those that 
do) unwittingly take their new machines off road with no cover at all.

The question is probably aimed at owners of newer LR products where there 
is still a considerable value.

Phil. Rubini

===============================================================================
Dr. Philip Rubini

School of Mechanical Engineering
Cranfield University
Cranfield
Bedfordshire MK43 0AL
ENGLAND

Tel. +44 (0)1234 754649
Fax. +44 (0)1234 750728

Email: p.rubini@cranfield.ac.uk
===============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 06:28:31 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Insurance off-road

Hi, you are right in assuming that your insurance covers you on byways.
It is infact illegal to drive on public roads, whether surfaced or not
without tax, insurance & MOT, license, seat belts, in excess of speed
limits, etc.

Apart from the surface there is no difference between byways and a
tarmac road.

In event of a claim you may need to prove that you where on a public
road, and not lost in someone's field. I do not know if insurance is
valid on private land - it is a bit of a grey area as far as I know.

Insurance for competitive events varies from company to company. Read the
small print on the policy. Speaking to the broker is a waste of time,
speak to someone direct at the insurance company and get confirmation in
writing, of any cover they say you have.

Most insurers draw the line on the timing of the event. Some events
(treasure hunts, navigational scatters, etc) are timed to the minute,
others such as road rallies are timed to the second. Most companies can
be persuaded to offer minute timed cover at no cost apparently. Second
cover cost more usually.

As timing is critical for the insurance cover, and plays no part in most
trials you could probably convince them there was no extra risk as you
are not haring round like a lunatic.

The insurance offered at most events is only public liability insurance
- it covers you if you are sued for running somebody over, not to fix
your car.

The executive summary is: it varies, get it in writing if the small
print is unclear, if you rely on interpretation you could get caught
without insurance.

Given the slightest excuse the insurance companies will try and get
out of paying.

Cheers, Steve

Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 07:14:01 EST
From: "Steve Reddock" <steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com>
Subject: Oil

I thought 5W40 was standard for sythetic? The only one I can think of
off the top of my head which isn't is a Castrol one and it is 10W60 I
think.

There is more than viscosity ratings to recommend synthetic oil though.
Having seen the results of abusing engines with synthetic oil I would
put in in anything new or high performance.

Putting synth. oil in old engines does tend to cause leaks by shifting
the gunge sealing the gaskets though.

It also take 20000 miles to run in a new engine on synth. so use dino
oil for that.

I use synth in the bike and I am going to change it every 4000 miles.
That is just healthy paranoia on my part (I don't want to think how much
it costs to rebuild a 4 cam engine). Car engines even in very hot
climates can run synthetic oil for longer than dino oil of the same
grade.

Bet it's warmer in St Lucia than it is here.  It's spring and all that
and it was -3 here last night!  Grumble winge moan.

Cheers, Steve (with thermals on)

Steve Reddock, Xyratex       | Just as he thought he had
Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450     | clinched the interview he was
IBMMAIL (GBXYR96P)           | visited by the ghost of Usenet
Steve_Reddock@uk.xyratex.com | Postings Past.

------------------------------

From: Trefor Delve <delve1t@nectech.co.uk>
Subject: Differential Questions: SIII
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 13:19:00 GMT

All,

I'm looking for some advice.

I was fidling about with the SIII last night and thought I would check   
the free movement in the propshaft/differential.  After chocking the   
wheels and releasing the handbrake I was surprised (read alarmed or   
shocked) to see that it is possible to turn the propshaft about 30 - 40   
degrees due to the slack.  I haven't taken the diff. apart yet and I   
don't know which type it is, so my questions are:

1) Is the unit completely shot or can I adjust it;

2) If adjustment is out, can anyone advise me on how realistic it is   
recondition the unit;

3) Failing the above (and forgeting about diff. ratios for the moment),   
can it be replaced with a SIIa axle (to which I have access).

I suppose the moral of this story is that checking things just for the   
sake of it is a bad idea ! Damn these light nights.

Could this be the fault of the V6 (or PO) or are these units pretty   
robust anyway ?.

Did anyone go to the Old Sodbury event ?.  My brother went and said it   
was very good.

Trefor
tdelve@nectech.co.uk

P.s. By the way Peter (Barton), I thought the Nipple Contest mail was   
excellent.

------------------------------

Date: 02 Apr 96 08:17:36 EST
From: <Glen_Rees@parlon2.ccmail.compuserve.com>
Subject: 1 sheep or 2 ?

          >Bet it's warmer in St Lucia than it is here.  It's spring and    
          >all that and it was -3 here last night!  Grumble winge moan.
     
          >Cheers, Steve (with thermals on)
     
     I've just returned from a long backpacking weekend in mid-Wales, and 
     it was down to -7 on Friday night. But then I had 2 sheeping bags to 
     keep me warm, roll on summer. 
     
     R  1  3        H
     +--|--|   FWD  |
        2  4        L            '55 Series One
                               (25 YEAR TAX EXEMPT)  
                                 
     Glenn

------------------------------

From: "Seymour, Gareth" <GSeymour@mp.sihe.ac.uk>
Subject: fans
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 96 13:32:00 PST

Just a quick request for info on fitting second hand electric fans to a 
rangy that is used mainly offroad. I hear transit fans have been fitted by 
some people but what others have been fitted and to which side of the 
radiator. I don't fancy buying Kenlowe's and then chucking half the kit 
away, ie. temperature sensor etc. as everyone I know with Kenlowe's just 
have an on/off switch.

Many thanks in advance,

Gareth 

------------------------------

From: "Paul Hazell" <p.hazell@worc.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:19:08 +0100
Subject:       A new toy?

If you fancy an LR that is a bit different have a look at:

http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/page/1.html

on the web.

Perfect for this time of year.....;-)

Paul Hazell

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:44:37 +0100
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Differential Questions: SIII

>I was fidling about with the SIII last night and thought I would check   
>the free movement in the propshaft/differential.  After chocking the   
>wheels and releasing the handbrake I was surprised (read alarmed or   
>shocked) to see that it is possible to turn the propshaft about 30 - 40   
>degrees due to the slack.  I haven't taken the diff. apart yet and I   

Trefor,
30-40 degrees is acceptable (or at least very common), unless there is a
load clunk when changing gear or setting off.
You could swap the diffs between the front and rear axles, since the one at
the front has usually had an easier life than the one at the back. This
assumes that both diffs are the same Rover-type ones; if your vehicle is a
SWB then they probably are.

Cheers!
             Tom
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas D.I. Stevenson                          gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station,      Tel 01475 530581
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland.       Fax 01475 530601
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:50:50 +0100
From: "T.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Shackles Vs hooks

>A hook can become unhooked during the recovery, or worse partly
>unhooked. Then on the next hard pull it comes off, releasing all the
>kinetic energy stored in the rope, even in a dead rope.

Wise words. I have often wondered why winches usually have a hook rather
than a shackle on the end.

Cheers!
             Tom
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas D.I. Stevenson                          gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
University Marine Biological Station,      Tel 01475 530581
Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland.       Fax 01475 530601
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:55:43 +0100
From: Phil Taylor <philt@innotts.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

At 10:05 02/04/96 +0100, you wrote:
>This is perhaps a naive question but do any UK insurance companies cover
>for off road use, either for byways (which I thought all should) or for
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)]
>situations - it is most likely that many people (well those that 
>do) unwittingly take their new machines off road with no cover at all.

I thought your standard policy would cover you for all use on public
highways/green lanes/UCRs/whatever you want to call them (providing you
aren't competing in road rallies, etc.). In fact, it is illegal to use any
of these roads WITHOUT tax & insurance - all road traffic act regs apply. 

As for off-roading activities on private land, it would seem foolish for a
company to provide cover in these circumstances - how would they assess the
risk? If you knew you were insured for vehicle damage, why would you limit
what you did to try and avoid said damage?

I have heard on the grapevine (word of mouth only, not admissable as
evidence) of motors that have been rolled in such circumstances being
transported to public roads and re-crashed in order to make an insurance
claim viable. This is obviously very illegal, and the sky is liable to fall
on your head if you get caught.

Public liability insurance for competitive events is provided by the RAC MSA
for events run under their auspices, however vehicle damage is your own
problem. You also need to check your life insurance policy, etc., as small
print clauses may apply.

Phil Taylor
___________________________________________

Across the wires the electric message came:
'He is no better, he is much the same.'

			(Alfred Austin)
___________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:09:09 +0000
From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Subject: Re: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

>I have heard on the grapevine (word of mouth only, not admissable as
>evidence) of motors that have been rolled in such circumstances being
>transported to public roads and re-crashed in order to make an insurance
>claim viable. This is obviously very illegal, and the sky is liable to fall
>on your head if you get caught.
OK,so what happens if you run into your garage doors and damage the motor,
(unlikely,I grant you,bearing in mind what we are driving,more likely
the garage doors would suffer most).You're still on private land,albeit
not competing.What I'm trying to get at,really,is,if you are "playing"
on private land,and suffer damage,surely you are insured under social,
domestic & pleasure.Competition is different,I accept.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:00:37 +0100 (BST)
From: "Dr.P.A.Rubini" <P.A.Rubini@cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

Some more details. I am currently insured via Direct Line (not a 
specialist 4x4 insurer !). They have verbally stated (I am waiting for 
the statement in writing) that they will not insure for any off-tarmac 
use including byeways. Social, domestic pleasure also does not allow 
off-tarmac use. They have stated that off road use is classed as 
'rallying'. I clearly stated that I was interested only in 
non-competitive use.

Recommendations for alternative insurers please. Vehicle damage is 
perhaps not the problem (at least I know the cost), 3rd party 
liability is the major concern. My recent enquiries have shown that many 
other insurance companies will also not ensure for off road use though 
they do recognise byways as roads. My bet is that many LR owners are 
risking financial ruin by driving off road in the belief that they are 
covered by their current policy under social,domestic,pleasure. I would 
recommend everyone to get a written statement from their insurer !

Phil.

===============================================================================
Dr. Philip Rubini

School of Mechanical Engineering
Cranfield University
Cranfield
Bedfordshire MK43 0AL
ENGLAND

Tel. +44 (0)1234 754649
Fax. +44 (0)1234 750728

Email: p.rubini@cranfield.ac.uk
===============================================================================

------------------------------

From: Ben <B.K.C.Leamy@uel.ac.uk>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:44:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

> Recommendations for alternative insurers please.

 I remeber reading that some LR owner 
called the National Union of Farmers and 
get refered to some argicultural policy 
which worked out very competitive.
Perhaps this approach would allow for off road use.

Ben.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 18:25:21 +0100
From: Phil Taylor <philt@innotts.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

At 15:09 02/04/96 +0000, you wrote:
>>I have heard on the grapevine (word of mouth only, not admissable as
>>evidence) of motors that have been rolled in such circumstances being
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)]
>Cheers
>Mike Rooth

Hey, leave me alone, I'm not an insurance agent!

Seriously, I take your point, you could try the argument, but in the
experience of myself and acquaintances, insurance companies are not always,
how shall I put it, sympathetic. A scrape with the garage door is one thing,
though unless you're a total drongo you won't do enough damage for it to be
worth a claim (excess, increase in next year's premium). The words on the
claim form "I could have sworn that sideslope was only 42 degrees" would
not, in my opinion, guarantee a speedy cheque in the post.

Phil Taylor
___________________________________________

Across the wires the electric message came:
'He is no better, he is much the same.'

			(Alfred Austin)
___________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:16:55 +0200
From: lopezba@atnet.at
Subject: Re: Off road and Green Lane Insurance ?

>> Recommendations for alternative insurers please.
> I remeber reading that some LR owner 
	 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)]
>Perhaps this approach would allow for off road use.
>Ben.
This may well have been NFU Mutual Insurance. Not that I know anything about 
insurance in the UK, but there are four pages of insurance ads in LROI every 
month, and I would think sending these people a form letter each would get 
the market into full gear (and maybe make your current insurance company 
think again).
Regards
Peter Hirsch
SI 107in S/W
Vienna, Austria (officially 1,000 years old this November 1)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:36:17 +0100
From: Jonathan Badger <badger@tipcote.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LPG - Thanks for the copy info

Dear Jos,

Thanks for sending me a copy of your notes about low speed running on
LPG - it all makes perfect sense.

Hopefully this easter weekend should see the straight six burst back
into life, & I'm getting the overdrive next week....

I'll keep you informed.

Thanks again.
************************************************************
        JONATHAN BADGER - Shepton Mallet - UK 
        1981 2.6lt LPG converted SIII LWB Safari owner          
************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 23:58:51 +0000
From: David Olley at New Concept <newconcept@tcp.co.uk>
Subject: Re: A new toy?

Paul Hazell wrote:
> If you fancy an LR that is a bit different have a look at:
> http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/page/1.html

Nice one, Paul. Images courtesy of Lirfaloop Designs?

-- 
David Olley
.....................................................................................
Winchester, England
Tel: +44(0)1962-840769      Fax : +44(0)1962-867367
    Home Page:  http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept
.....................................................................................

------------------------------

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