The UK/IERE Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions to uk-lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: "Peter Dowson" <Peter.Dowson@softwareag.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:00:15 -0000
Subject: Re: GPS suppliers

Dave White wrote :-
->- the standard one works OK through the windscreen except through
->really dense trees. The screen and controls are excellent.
->The trees thing is a problem with ALL gps's and will only be helped
->marginally by an external ariel, even a top notch multi channel unit will
->struggle in trees.
->
->Dave
->(Once a GPS marine nav engineer......)

Did you have many problems with trees on the sea ?

Peter Dowson

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Tony Simons <tony@necpwa.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:46:40 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: [WANTED] Aeroparts capstan winch driver plate

On Wed 17 Feb, Ian Stuart wrote:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Joost Kramer" <jkramer@best.ms.philips.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:55:05 +0100
Subject: Rims

Hi All,

I am searching for some nice off road tires for my SIII 88 (1980). At the 
moment I am
think of buying BFGoodrich Trac Edge or Michelin XZL O/R. Both in the size of 
7.50 x
16. Anyone better (or cheaper) ideas?
My main concern is my rim size. How can I determine the size with a tire on? 
There is
a number stamped at one of the wheels; ……272.
Second question is, can I use 109 rims without problems with the position of the
brake drum. The drum has to be in the center of the wheel to avoid (heavy) 
forces on
the wheel bearings.

Cheers,
Joost Kramer

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Estibeiro" <petere@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:14:57 +0000
Subject: Re: Safety

> >>>>PS. Is NATO green an approved colour?<<<<
> yes, that is quite (hang on while I pour another Jameson's) acceptable.
Frank,
Sit down and pour another  large Jameson's.
Ready? Good
Is russet-brown OK?  With a white stripe and "county" written on the 
back quater in tastful joined-up writing?
Get well soon
Peter.

   
Peter Estibeiro
Membrane Biology Group
Department of Biomedical Science
University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh EH8 9XD
tel: 44 131 6503731
fax: 44 131 6503711
email peter.estibeiro@ed.ac.uk

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Davidge, Anthony" <antony_davidge@merck.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 05:34:56 -0500
Subject: loose nut behind the wheel

I'm not wishing to start a ''Flame'' war, or have a dig at anyone, but a
statement to the tune of I will not budge out the way to other vehicles
because the car is well insured, (ie an accident doesn't effect me!!) is
typical of the attitude of many of the roads worst drivers. I'm not accusing
any one, especially on this list, of being a bad driver -  a point in
question is Mr. Rep or ''The man in a van'' driving a company vehicle. He
doesn't pay for he's fuel, repairs or even have to consider the financial
implications of a thrashed motor, and if he writes the car off he's usually
given another one. Add the fact that (S)he usual HAS to be somewhere ages
ago is, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster.

These are the people that will mount kerbs to get past cars turning right,
over take cars that are turning right, tail gate, speed, more likely to
force their way through etc etc etc - I'm sure that you've all seen stupid
stunts that people have attempted.

All of us would like to think of ourselves as good, or better than everyone
else when it comes to driving, but at the end of the day - we're all likely
to make silly/stupid/huge mistakes when under pressure or rise to the 'bait'
when you get cut up that once to often. The good thing about LR's is that we
usually know we're going to get there, not quickly but in our own time and
we're usually aware (because of the height advantage) that the road up a
head has come to a complete stop. Guess what roads I travel on. :+)

Well thats my view, again no offence to any one - person or car
manufacturer, just my view of the world. I can't arque with Frank about the
best colour for a LR after the amount of medicinal Jamesons he's drunk in
this virtual pub.

cheers everyone

Tony

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Estibeiro" <petere@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:36:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Rims

Hi Joost
> My main concern is my rim size. How can I determine the size with a tire on? 
There is
> a number stamped at one of the wheels; aa272.
The rims look different.  As a guide you can measure with your 
finger.  If the spacing from the dish to the edge of the rim is one 
finger joint its a SWB rim.  Two joints for LWB and three joints for 
forward control.  The EU standard finger (finger, index, right) is 
about 8cm long:-).  I can measure both in real units and let you know 
tomorrow if necessary.

109 rims are a straight swap, 750X16 tyres on 109 rims were a factory 
option.  I have these on my 86" series I.

You can put 750X16 tyres on SWB rims but they can touch the body 
under extreme articulation.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Peter.

Peter Estibeiro
Membrane Biology Group
Department of Biomedical Science
University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh EH8 9XD
tel: 44 131 6503731
fax: 44 131 6503711
email peter.estibeiro@ed.ac.uk

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Strang <john.strang@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:53:27 -0000
Subject: Safety etc

Hi Guys..

Clive Wrote:
>>Since I have taken the bull bars off the Rangie, I get let onto the
motorway
less often, have more pr*tts cutting in and generally feel less safe about
others driving habits.<<

Funny that, Driving the Rangie everyone thinks that I'm fair game, but when
I'm in the series III (girder for a front bumber) even taxis get out of the
way!

>>The Wife (capitalisation denotes respect) has no problem in the LWt. Even
rep(tiles) don't try to cut her up. Must be the sharp edges.<<

Hers or the Lwt's ?

On another matter, have we Discovered Franks Irish background ?
LR's must be Green, AND he drinks Jameson's!
(and everyone elses I've heard ;-)  )

Cheers:
Strange John	john.strang@bbcv.co.uk(Nr Heathrow)
1994 LSE
1976 Series III SWB (with a stuck clutch heigh-ho)
1998 Triumph Speed III

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Andy Gardiner <101_nut@shedcity.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:42:24 +0000
Subject: Re: safety

In message <bulk.24526.19990217000601@Land-Rover.Team.Net>, owner-uk-
lro-digest@playground.sun.com writes
>The bottom line is that LandRovers are dangerous vehicles, fitting
>kiddie killers - sorry bull bars - is unlikely to help. Driving
>slower makes a real difference. At 40mph you have 4 times the 
>kinetic energy of the same vehicle at 20mph.

Yep. Like every vehicle under the sun, including cyclists, LR is
dangerous. And at 10mph you have 4 times the kinetic of the same vehicle
at 5mph. What does this mean? Statistically, a Reliant Robin following a
man with a red flag will safer than a cyclist at 10mph. - should it be
implemented then?

I don't believe that bull-bars are *necessarily* any less safe than the
rest of the vehicle - I seem to remember that some insurance company
accident statistics said as much. However when a bull bar is used to
change the front profile of a vehicle, to make it look 'mean' - eg slap
one on a 1.3 Escort (along with the bass tubes and drainpipe exhaust) -
then that might cause more injury than a normal Escort in the event of a
collision due to the mentality of the idiot driving it.

A simple rule applies to reduce the incidence of pedestrian related
accidents:
*P*edestrian on *P*avement
*T*raffic on *T*armac
Should these entities require contactless interraction, eyes, ears and
common sense come in useful. 

It was once said that '... there is no such thing as an accident.' To a
large extent this is true, the only exception being unpredictable
failure of vehicle or human. Why not handle the cause of 'accidents'
rather than the results of them? Whatever happened to the Green Cross
Code? Most kids nowadays seem to use the 'I'll cross when I feel like it
and the cars wo't hurt me' method.

... rant off
 
-- 
Andy Gardiner

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Orlando_Scott-Cowley@watsonwyatt.co.uk
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:14:21 +0000
Subject: Re: Saftey (no ranting)

In my opinion you should be made to re-take your driving test every three or 
five years.
Just think how few 'bad' drivers there would be on the road. At least this line 
of thought encourages people not to get into bad habits.

Just a thought.
Orlando Scott-Cowley

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:43:12 +0000
Subject: Re: Saftey (no ranting)

>Just think how few 'bad' drivers there would be on the road. At least this
>line
>of thought encourages people not to get into bad habits.

Problem with that Orlando.Have you seen the standard of driving which
is allowed through the test? I once had a "discussion" with a Driving
Instructor on this subject.Like why all this emphasis on "keeping up
with the traffic flow".Bugger the speed limit,press on MacDuff.Approach
a roundabout in *top* gear.Sit at traffic lights *in gear*,ditto
pedestrian crossings.His answer to the last one was that release bearings
were more robust these days (what he meant,I assume was that the old
BMC carbon release bearing was no more) and that if they taught people
to sit at the lights in neutral,they'd *never* find first gear! Which
is what the stupid sods are supposed to be teaching them,among other
things.Like if the clutch withdrawal system fails at a pedestrian
crossing....splat!

Cheers
Mike Rooth

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:53:29 +0000
Subject: Re: safety

A simple rule applies to reduce the incidence of pedestrian related
accidents:
*P*edestrian on *P*avement
*T*raffic on *T*armac
>Should these entities require contactless interraction, eyes, ears and
>common sense come in useful.
Hear hear!

 Most kids nowadays seem to use the 'I'll cross when I feel like it
>and the cars wo't hurt me' method.
Is it because kids are taught that according to the Health and Safety
Executive,all things dangerous are now labelled? Thereby destroying
the human animal's natural perception of danger.
Actually when you look at a series vehicle,solid,slab sided (and green)
it *looks* intimidating.It has a presence,like some horses.Unlike most
modern cars which seem to be designed to look "cuddly".And every
kid knows that cuddly cant hurt you.....which is why,probably,so
many of the silly little sods get bitten by small,cuddly dogs.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Thorsten Klein <kleit001@mail.uni-mainz.de>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:58:51 +0100
Subject: Short trip to Devon

Hello dear list members.
If everything goes right, I am travelling to Crediton/Devon and back to
Germany this week. We are starting tomorrow afternoon. So if you see a
Conniston green D110 Hardtop towing a blue SD 1 VDP please feel free to
flag me down.  

Bye, Thorsten

Thorsten Klein
Mainz, Germany
kleit001@mail.uni-mainz.de
SIII Lightweight (almost sold)
Defender 110 Tdi (driven in)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Orlando_Scott-Cowley@watsonwyatt.co.uk
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:01:26 +0000
Subject: Re[2]: Saftey (no ranting)

As with most gov, institutions the DSA needs agood shake up and re-shuffle.

>Have you seen the standard of driving which is allowed through the test?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:11:24 +0000
Subject: Re: Saftey (no ranting)

Orlando_Scott-Cowley@watsonwyatt.co.uk wrote:
> In my opinion you should be made to re-take your driving test every three or
> five years.
> Just think how few 'bad' drivers there would be on the road. At least this 
line
> of thought encourages people not to get into bad habits.

I took Ben, my youngest (17yrs) lad out in the Metro for some driving
practice the other day, he's been having lessons for about nine months,
off and on. He broke his leg playing rugby so couldn't drive for a few
weeks.
Anyway, as he came up to a junction in fourth gear he applied the brakes
to stop the car. I told him to think ahead and change down as he
approached the junction using engine braking to slow the car down. He
said that the instructor had told him that he didn't need to do that
because the brakes were perfectly good enough.
I didn't believe an instructor would say such a thing and asked Sam,
other son what he had been told when he learnt to drive a couple of
years ago, he confirmed what Ben had said that the instructor
discouraged the use of gear changing to slow the vehicle down, Sam
learned with BSM and Ben with a small local instructor.
Sam soon learned the necessity of not depending on the brakes when his
IIa 88" developed a leaky cylinder while he was some way away from home.
This leads me to believe that the best way to train drivers is to make
them buy a old vehicle, with their own money, that does not do above 30
miles an hour, is built like a tank to protect the driver, has lousy
passenger seats so there is rarely anyone else in the car with the
driver and requires the owner/driver to do their own maintenance because
all the garages have forgotten how to fix older vehicles.
Series Landys seem to fit the bill exactly.
I haven't tried L-plates on my yet but there is still time before Ben
passes his test, the reaction of other road users to the 109" with the
military double front bumper with L-plates on it should be a joy to
behold!

 Mick Forster
1972 109" Series III Safari 2.25 petrol 
1963 88" Series IIa 2.25 petrol
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Orlando_Scott-Cowley@watsonwyatt.co.uk
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:37:34 +0000
Subject: Re[2]: Saftey (no ranting)

>Anyway, as he came up to a junction in fourth gear he applied the brakes to 
>stop the car. I told him to think ahead and change down as he approached the 
>junction using engine braking to slow the car down. He said that the instructor
>had told him that he didn't need to do that because the brakes were perfectly 
>good enough.

I had this when I learnt to drive (only 5 yr. ago). I was taught to drive upto 
junctions and not change gear, then knock the knob out of gear. So saving use of
the clutch and unnecessary gear changes.

This is contradictory to what my Dad had told me, i.e. change down through the 
gears to second. I suppose it make sense when you think about it. Fifth to 
fourth, fourth to third, third to second. 3 changes.

Not changing down, I believe is the technique taught for the 'Advance Drivers 
Test.' 

Just a thought.
Orlando

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Strang <john.strang@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:59:22 -0000
Subject: Re Safety/Driving techniques

Mike Wrote:

>Is it because kids are taught that according to the Health and Safety
Executive,all things dangerous are now labelled<

Nahh.. in my area its because the kids (equally applies to cyclists) 
are bloody minded, they know if you hit them its your fault..
They tend to wander down the middle of the road, flicking V's
at anyone who upsets em..

Ben was on about slowing using the gears, thats definately a no no
today, reasoning is,  Brake lights warn the too close idiot behind, using
the gearbox dont, therbye provoking a panic when said moron reacts
to the fact that he's about to rear-end you..

he also suggested all kids should drive landies, being slow & highly visible
Not so sure about that, just think what would happen to landie prices, to
say
nowt about insurance.. 
as to Ben in the 109, dont forget, if its got too many seats, (9?)  he's not
allowed
to drive it..

On Tests, I think it should be made compulsory for All car drivers to pass a
Bike
test, as it would certainly wake up the "I'm safe in my box, disengage
brain" type
of drivers, who drive ALL makes of car, not just swedish ones..
(I speak as a Landie owner, who has previousy owned a Volvo and currently
has a bike), 

Making the Advanced test Compulsory would also probably help..

Just my morning rant.. God I'm Bored..

Cheers..
Strange John	john.strang@bbc.co.uk(nr heathrow)
1994 LSE
1976 SWB
1998 Speed III

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Paul Field" <PHYPAF.phy.hw@phyfsa.phy.hw.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:15:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Saftey (no ranting)

> Anyway, as he came up to a junction in fourth gear he applied the brakes
> to stop the car. I told him to think ahead and change down as he
> approached the junction using engine braking to slow the car down. He
> said that the instructor had told him that he didn't need to do that
> because the brakes were perfectly good enough.

A friend of mine who passed her test recently was told by her 
drivng instructor to stay in 4th till the last possible minute and then 
go into 2nd for an open junction (ie where you can see around) or 
1st (whilst still moving) for a blind junction.  

Personally I don't find a lot of cars like going into 1st while still 
moving, especially Series LR's.

Cheers

Paul
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Paul Field
Department of Physics, Heriot-Watt University
Riccarton, Edinburgh, EH14 4AS
Scotland

Tel: +44 (0)131 451 3645
Fax: +44 (0)131 451 3088
Email:  P.A.Field@hw.ac.uk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Patrick Colbeck <pat.colbeck@esc.azlan.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:40:10 +0000
Subject: Re: Re Safety/Driving techniques

I learnt to drive about 10 years ago (only rode motor bikes untill I was 24)
and my instructor (1 woman band) kept telling me off for going down through
the gears before stopping. She said the approved method was straight into
first or second depending on the situation. Funny thing was she said that
almost everyone who learnt to ride bike first found it hard not to go
through the gears, its probably due to the fact that on a bike you have to
go through them all and its quite often very difficult to engage first when
stationary.

As an aside another "bad" habit a lot of bike first car second people have
is slipping the clutch.

Pat

-- 

 Patrick Colbeck 	  email: pat.colbeck@esc.azlan.co.uk          
 Senior Analyst            tel:  you dont seriously expect me to 
 Azlan Ltd                       give that out on the internet do you ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Iain Tennant" <i.r.tennant@dundee.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:26:04 GMT
Subject: re: crash test and crumple zones

Andy Gardiner wrote:

> For what it's worth, most collisions between vehicles that I hear about
> are *relatively* low speed - 

True, and as I've said previously, bigger, heavier vehicles tend to 
be safer.  Not for pedestrians though!

>how often does a Land Rover come off worst?
> Not one that I can think of - last one was bent Slll bumper and ...

Come across several.  A 110CSW on it's way down from the Braemar 
games 6 or 7 years ago towing a large whisky display trailer ended 
up neatly on it's side at our road end having been flipped over by 
the trailer. A *lot* of damage to both LR and trailer.   
An 88 & a 109 at different times also lying down as a result of 
driver error, also no other vehicles involved.  Not a lot of damage 
to the 88 but the 109 (belonged to my work) had a badly twisted 
chasis. 
Another 88 (also my work's) rear-ended a Christian Salveson 
artic.  Bad choice!  Driver was inhurt but the SII was written off.

Most serious I can recall was about 2 years ago.  Story and photo in 
the local paper where a 110CSW was involved in a smash on the A90 
east of Perth.    The 110 ended up on it's roof seriously injuring 
the driver and at least one of the passengers. I don't recall the 
other car involved but no reported injuries apart from in the LR.

Regards,

Iain

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Iain Tennant" <i.r.tennant@dundee.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:34:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Safety

>  Ignore me as you usually do, but here's my reaction:

I would never be so impolite Marijn.

>>[[toughened glass, laminated glass, ALL have been opposed by
>>manufacturers 

>   And *what* manufacturer started with these features on it's own free
>   will? Yes, Volvo. The above-mentioned  [[...  followed.

I didn't say they were opposed by ALL manufacturers.
Volvo realised early on that safety features could be used to sell 
cars and they were of course responsible for the 3-point seat belt,
BUT,  it took legislation to have this adopted as standard by others.

I'm afraid I have a very cynical view of the big motor manufacturers' 
approach to safety over the years.  I'm sure they are now more aware 
that safety is important than in the past but the only reason for 
this is the threat on their bottom line if they get it seriously 
wrong again.  An example?   Remember the 70s Ford Pinto in the US, 
the famous exploding car!  A leaked internal memo was published at 
the time which showed that Ford knew about the problem of the 
vulnerable fuel tanks but had decided the cost of potential claims 
from the victims families was likely to be less than the cost of 
fitting a redesigned tank. They were of course seriously wrong and 
this has cost them dearly in the courts.

LRs are safer than many and less safe than others and we should not be
complacent just because we drive big heavy cars.  At the end of the
day ALL cars are potentially lethal to both occupants and, 
especially,  to pedestrians. The ultimate safety device is attached 
to your shoulders and should be properly engaged at all times when 
behind the wheel.

On the issue of not being willing to budge, can I ask what people do 
when walking down the pavement?  Is it normal behaviour to actively 
obstruct other pedestrians?  I think not, indeed it is regarded as 
being bad mannered, and rightly so.  What's different when a driver 
gets behind the wheel?  This logically moves on to so-called 
road-rage.  IMO there's no such thing,  just rude, bad-mannered, 
aggressive people who happen to be driving at the time.

Regards,

Iain

P.S. It's own-up time.  Our other car's a Volvo!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Andrew Baker <Andrew_Baker@mitel.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:07:19 -0000
Subject: RE: Safety (no ranting)

> From: 	Mick Forster[SMTP:cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk]
> This leads me to believe that the best way to train drivers is to make
> them buy a old vehicle, with their own money, that does not do above
> 30
> miles an hour.....

	Oh no! My pet hat is those stupid little shopping things with
two wheels that wobble along in the gutter. The thought of a big tank
like thing doing the same would drive me nuts, mind you I drive a 109
diesel, 30mph? just about, but my GSX750 will do a LOT more :-))

	Andrew B

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Bettster" <bettster@legend.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:05:47 -0000
Subject: Re: crash test and crumple zones

>>how often does a Land Rover come off worst?
>> Not one that I can think of - last one was bent Slll bumper and ...

>Come across several.  A 110CSW on it's way down from the Braemar
>games 6 or 7 years ago towing a large whisky display trailer ended
>up neatly on it's side at our road end having been flipped over by
>the trailer. A *lot* of damage to both LR and trailer.

<snippage>

series sheds are susceptible to roll overs after side impacts. My mates 109
went skating down the road on the drivers side after an orion pulled out of
a junction under the passenger side. And the orion managed to limp off into
the distance cos he had no insurance.

The same thing would have happened to me in my 88 except there was a handy
lamp to stop the roll, shame about  the panels :(

Bettster

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Estibeiro" <petere@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:12:32 +0000
Subject: RE: Safety (no ranting)

Andrew wrote:
> 	Oh no! My pet hat is those stupid little shopping things with
> two wheels that wobble along in the gutter. 
My pet hat is a red polartec one with a blue lining and ear-flaps.

Peter.

Peter Estibeiro
Membrane Biology Group
Department of Biomedical Science
University of Edinburgh
Edinburgh EH8 9XD
tel: 44 131 6503731
fax: 44 131 6503711
email peter.estibeiro@ed.ac.uk

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Andrew Baker <Andrew_Baker@mitel.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:18:47 -0000
Subject: RE: Safety (no ranting)

	Thanks Peter, the spell checker save MOST of my embarrassing
monist.
Andrew B

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter BRADLEY" <pbrad@dial.pipex.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:33:44 -0000
Subject: Re: Safety (no ranting)

> Thanks Peter, the spell checker save MOST of my embarrassing
>monist.
>Andrew B

It didn't do too well on this one though.

PB

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:43:57 +0100
Subject: Extracting the steering relay

I am well on the way to a complete strip of my 109" frame, and having
delivered the new firewall and a few other iron bits to the metallising
shop today, I am severely tempted to have the chassis professionally
sandblasted and zinc-metalised - then maybe I will be spared the "fun"
of scraping paint,crud and rust every two or four years (after all, one
day I'm going to be too old for all this fun, so a fráme which would
last would be OK)

When all is stripped off the chassis, the only remaining bits will be
the suspension bushes (of which I have heard several removal recipes)
and the steering relay (of which i have heard many tales of woe).

So list! What is the preferred safe and effective no-bloody-knuckles
method of removing the relay without getting it fired upwards into my
teeth? And what is the preferred method of reinstallation?

And what - if anything - should I do with the relay when its out?
(Maintenance wise?)

Cheers

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
      Visit the "Native Experience" website at 
          http://www.channel6.dk/native
Contact the "Native Experience" film unit in Alaska
          telephone   +1 (907) 230 0359
          e-mail      channel6@alaska.net
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Tony Simons <tony@necpwa.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:48:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Extracting the steering relay

On Wed 17 Feb, Adrian Redmond wrote:
> I am well on the way to a complete strip of my 109" frame, and having
> delivered the new firewall and a few other iron bits to the metallising
> shop today, I am severely tempted to have the chassis professionally
> sandblasted and zinc-metalised - then maybe I will be spared the "fun"
> of scraping paint,crud and rust every two or four years (after all, one
> day I'm going to be too old for all this fun, so a frme which would
> last would be OK)
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 23 lines)]
> (Maintenance wise?)
> Cheers
Couldn't get mine out of the chassis despite having the weight of the
vehicle on it and a welding torch on the outside - eventually as the
chassis was going to be replaced a cutting torch did the trick 8-)

-- 
Tony Simons
North East Club for Pre War Austins
or the Nearly Everywhere Club for Pretty Well Anything!
http://www.necpwa.demon.co.uk

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Nicholas John Roe" <N.Roe@plymouth.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:51:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Safety (was Overfinch Rangie)

> >>>>>The most  important safety feature is the driver<<<<<

Best safety feature for a car is a foot long metal spike sticking out 
of the steering wheel at the drivers chest.  That should make them 
drive more carefully.

My sister rolled her car the other week (citroen ax), walked away.  
the car was a write off.  I said she should have rolled her 
landrover, we could have fixed that.  (could have tested the roll bar 
in it too:-))

Nick Roe
 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Nicholas John Roe" <N.Roe@plymouth.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:12:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Saftey (no ranting)

> This leads me to believe that the best way to train drivers is to make
> them buy a old vehicle, with their own money, that does not do above 30
> miles an hour, is built like a tank to protect the driver, has lousy
> passenger seats so there is rarely anyone else in the car with the
> driver and requires the owner/driver to do their own maintenance because
> all the garages have forgotten how to fix older vehicles.
> Series Landys seem to fit the bill exactly.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> military double front bumper with L-plates on it should be a joy to
> behold!

I did plenty of driving practice in a 109" with L plates on.  Much 
more respect than my instructors pegeout 106 plastered with L's.

Even betterm get them in a series 2 or 2a without synchromesh on the 
bottom two gears.  Then they learn to *really* think ahead.

 
Nick Roe :-)

"I can only please one person each day,
Today is not your day,
Tommorow doesn't look good either."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Jim Lester <Jim@home100.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:18:28 +0000
Subject: Re: Heated Rear Window

In message <bulk.22101.19990215232810@Land-Rover.Team.Net>, sarah
harwood <sarah.harwood@gecm.com> writes
>Hi
>Has any one tried changing from plain glass to a heated rear window in
>the back door on a Series IIA

I fitted the heated glass from an old 90 door into my series III, I
think they are all the same size.
Good luck

This message is copyright and may not be used or reproduced
in any manner without the written permission of the author.
Jim Lester, Bracknell, Berks.
1975 SWB Series III diesel HWN 51N

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Matthew Reeve & Mel Mauger" <blatchwood@btinternet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:22:44 -0000
Subject: Re: safety

>accident statistics said as much. However when a bull bar is used to
>change the front profile of a vehicle, to make it look 'mean' - eg slap

Indeed, I believe that the A-bar type bullbars are more dangerous than a
standard vehicle as they do the equivalent of hitting you with a baseball
bat, concentrating the energy in a smaller area. A flat type bull bar will
be no more dangerous (if not safer) than the bare front of the car,
especially if there is a protective grille between the bars. Having said
that, I have sustained a number of painful injuries as a result of a
bullbar, the bloody thing keeps falling over in the garage :-))

Matthew
UK, nr Heathrow
1979 2-dr Range Rover 300Tdi

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Matthew Reeve & Mel Mauger" <blatchwood@btinternet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:32:00 -0000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Saftey (no ranting)

>>Anyway, as he came up to a junction in fourth gear he applied the brakes
to
>>stop the car. I told him to think ahead and change down as he approached
the
>>junction using engine braking to slow the car down. He said that the
instructor
>>had told him that he didn't need to do that because the brakes were
perfectly

I had the good fortune to be taught to drive by an ambulance driving
instructor. His policy was to teach to advanced driver standard for the
conventional test. He did the lessons during his off shifts and all proceeds
went to fund the convoys to Eastern Europe which he took each year (good
bloke). He believed in teaching defensive driving from the very beginning
and it has stood me in good stead. Not only did he insist on changing down
and engine braking into junctions, he also taught to look ahead and try and
drive straight through were possible and legal, rather than the current
teaching technique which seems to be drive up to the junction, stop,
handbrake, then look and see if it's safe to go. I think that if learning to
the advanced driver standard was to replace the current standard test then
the accident rate in the country would drop dramatically. Also compulsory
re-testing following ANY traffic offence.

Matthew
UK, nr Heathrow
1979 2-dr Range Rover 300Tdi

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 23:49:27 -0000
Subject: Re: Heated Rear Window

The glass is the same size in all the doors, in fact the doors are straight
swaps, give or take a hinge.
So long as you can wire up a simple switch, relay and find an earth, no
trouble at all.
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:18:36 +0100
Subject: Re: Safety

I would agree wholeheartedly with the suggestions regarding compulsory
periodic driving tests.

I have driven for 23 years, and recently had to take a US driving test
because I'm working in Alaska - where a UK license is recognised but
costs a fortune to insure. I was surprised by how difficult even the
relativly simple Alaska test is. Taking into account that I was taking a
test in another country (I originally took my test in the UK and have
lived in denmark for 15 years) I was still surprised about how rusty I
had become on simple things.

The logic is simple. If the test means anything, it must be a measure of
one's ability to drive and behave according to a certain predefined
standard. If it was difficult for me after 23 years experience, then it
may also be difficult for anyone else who passed their test say over 5
years ago. Now that is the majority of drivers. If they have trouble
passing the test after a number of years, that is an indication that a
regular brush-up wouldn't hurt motoring safety one bit. So regular
retesting would keep us on our toes, weed out those who have become too
complacent, and heighten the general awareness of motoring safety.

Considering the number of new laws, inspections and taxes which are
introduced all over europe to promote road and traffic safety,
environmental standards, and better motoring, it seems illogical that
100% of the legislative and technological initiative is being directed
at the vehicle, whilst almost zilch is being directed at the driver. Ask
any insurance assesor or traffic policeman - most accidents are caused
by "human error" rather than bad maintenance or bad design. The aviation
industry is also testament to this phenomena, despite stringent
mechanical inspection, repairs and regular testing of the pilots, most
accidents are finally attributed to pilot error. The human element - I
would suggest - is grossly underestimated.

I guess its a matter of politics - who's going to vote for a politician
who suggests a law which might mean that a large percentage of the
population could lose their license - and thus their social mobility and
freedom? And how much would people be prepared to pay for such a
"service" - pretty little I'd guess. Much easier to tax fuel
consumption, cubic capacity, and luxuries like 4WD (Denmark 180%
surcharge duty).

Sad state of affairs if you ask me.

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:29:23 +0100
Subject: Re: Heated Rear Window

I guess finding the good earth is the hardest part of the job?

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "David Codrai" <dave@codrai.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:08:48 -0000
Subject: Land Rover Recalls

I thought that the following might be of interest, particularly if you own
one !

Vehicle Inspectorate Vehicle Safety Recalls

Ref No              R1998/057
Make                Land Rover
Model               Range Rover V8
VIN's                 LP300190 to LP402293
Build dates       June 94 to May 98
No's Involved    14140

Description of Defect :

Coolant deposited onto engine components that operate at relatively high
temperatures, may evaporate leaving a high concentration of glycol
antifreeze which under certain conditions may ignite.

Remedial Action :

Recall potentially affected vehicles for the examination and possible
replacement of coolant hoses and hose clips.

Ref No              R1998/080
Make                Land Rover
Model               Freelander
VIN's                 LN600471 to LN622408
Build dates       June 97 to June 98
No's Involved    10477

Description of Defect :

Land Rover have identified a weld integrity concern associated with the rear
suspension links on Freelander models. Should the weld fracture, the
stability of the rear hub assembly could be impaired. This may cause the
vehicle to deviate from a straight line under normal driving conditions. To
protect the long term integrity of these components, Land Rover are
implementing recall action on all Freelander models within the affected VIN
range.

Remedial Action:

Recall affected vehicles and replace the rear suspension links with quality
assured units.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Williamson <Hartshay@hartshay.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:56:34 +0000
Subject: s3 clutch

When reversing my the clutch on my s3 appears to slip badly, and if
there is any resistance to progress the vehicle does not move at all.
It is worse when in 4wd.  I have no problems when moving forward and I
cannot get the clutch to slip when applying brake and accelerator.  Is
this early warning terminal clutch decline?
Paul Williamson

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Dave White" <dave@bang.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:48:35 -0000
Subject: Re: GPS suppliers

>->(Once a GPS marine nav engineer......)
>Did you have many problems with trees on the sea ?

No but not ALL our customers were on the sea, we started doing agricultural
stuff....

Dave White
'82 V8 Stage 1 SW (Light Green)
'69 2.6 LWB 2A (in bits)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Clive Taylor" <clive@tcns.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:14:05 -0000
Subject: Billing '99
	charset="iso-8859-1"

So, how many of us will make it to Billing this year. Its straw poll =
time.

I mentioned it to the wife tonight (by 'phone as I work away from home). =
She didn't seem that put off by the idea (but then, she's as big a =
LandRover nut as I am; while I was learning to drive in a SII LWB, she =
was being driven around the country lanes of Devon in an SIII swb - she =
now drives the SIII (LWt) and I drive the RR - one of us had to soften =
up a bit - my excuse is that I have to carry delicate computer equipment =
around the country - hers is that she has to transport our children in =
(relative) safety).

So - to repeat- how many of us will make it. I know that I have to (to =
pay Frank his due in beers (if the mention appears)).

Clive

------=_NextPart_000_0081_01BE5ADB.FA7DD200
	[ Original post was HTML ]
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: text/html; ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 42 lines.]	

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Johan Helsingius <Johan.Helsingius@EU.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:55:12 +0100
Subject: Re: Billing '99

>So, how many of us will make it to Billing this year. Its straw poll 
>time. 

Count me in. Or green. Or whatever. In either the panther or the
carawagon, or both. 

	Julf

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Tim Burt" <tim@muddyweb.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:49:24 -0000
Subject: Re: Billing '99 / Eastnor 99

I'll be there at Billing with the S3 and so will my Dad with his Rangie.
I'll also be at the Series 3 Club rally at Eastnor in May.

See you there !

Cheers,

Tim Burt
www.muddyweb.co.uk 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  END OF * LIST DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 41 lines 1945 [forwarded 130 whitespace 0]
 Output: lines 1306 [content 1087  forwarded 112 (cut  18) whitespace 0]

UK/IE Land Rover Owner Additional Information:

In addition so subscribing and unsubscribing, the Frequently Asked
Questions (FAQ) file and the last month of daily digests may be retrieved
(by mail) from majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Useful commands for this are 'index uk-lro-digest' which returns a list of
files available, as well as 'get lro-digest <filename>', etc.

UK/EIRE World Wide Web Sites start at 
         http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/pages.html
(shadow) http://www2.Land-Rover.Team.Net/pages.html

If Major Domo barfs at something, and you're convinced he should have 
understood what you sent him, contact majordomo-owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

  -B