The UK/IERE Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: Dave Ladell <ladell@proasisn.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:22:10 +0000
Subject: Re: Glow plug blues

Adrian,
This sounds similar to a problem I had with the lights, I had 12V all the
way through the circuit untill I made the last connection.  There was a
high resistance connection in the early part of the wiring which would not
show up until you tried to pull enough current to power the lights.

Check the voltage at each plug with the full circuit connected and switched
on.  This may help trace the faulty point.

Good Luck,

Dave Ladell  
'75 Lightweight 2.5TD 
nr. Buxton, Derbyshire, UK

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From: "Steve Mace" <steve@solwise.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:27:39 -0000
Subject: Re: fuses

I'm trying to help.... I've spoken to LR dealer support and 
they say no way should you have what you have! You 
should have standard 'blade' type fuses. 

Could you please accurately describe the fuses you 
have? Length, colour, diameter, clear or what? I will then 
have a look here for what I can find.

On 18 Feb 99, at 21:27, Neill Hogarth wrote:

> No one, simply no one around here can supply me with the fuses I 
> need for my Land Rover. Everyone has electrical fuses but they are 
> all a few millimeters to long.

Name: Dr Steve Mace
E-mail: steve@solwise.co.uk
www: http://www.solwise.co.uk
Tel: +44 1482 621888
Fax: +44 1482 621877

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From: "Saunders.Richard" <Richard.Saunders@haltoncollege.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:18:21 -0000
Subject: Billing Eastnor etc

Billing is 16th July to 18th July
 
Series Three Owners Club Eastnor 99 is Friday 28th May 1999 to Monday 31st
May 1999 If you want to go Ring Frank King on 01543 424 821.  Its a great
weekend. Book now to avoid ...
 
Richard 

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From: chris.mokes@symbian.com
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:42:42 GMT
Subject: Re: fuses 

     CAn you describe them again.
     
     The fuses on my 1986 90 have flat ends, glass in the middle with the 
     rating stamped on the metal end.  They are the same as you get on old 
     minis!
     
     Are yours the coloured slightly ribbled pointy ended ones?
     
     Chris
     

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From: Andy Gardiner <101_nut@shedcity.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:31:51 +0000
Subject: Re: The UK/IERE Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

In message <bulk.4186.19990219000656@Land-Rover.Team.Net>, owner-uk-lro-
digest@playground.sun.com writes
>Heres the circuit -
>feed          to indicator     cyl        cyl        cyl        cyl
>+              |                4          3          2          1
>|------------o earth
> ballast coil                   o          o          o          o
>Certain things are obvious from this cuircuit -

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
>1.     All plugs muust be OK for circuit to work (X-mas tree light
>principle)
Hmm... all plugs must have continuity ...
>2.     If no power reaches the ballast coil, nothing will work
Yes
>3.     If power reaches the coil and plugs, but is subsequently laid to
>earth by a fault - nothing will work
sort of, depends where the fault is.
>4.     If the link between the glow plugs is removed, and the line thus far
>is metered when the ignition switch is in the pre-heat position, if the
>meter shows 12 volts or over - the fault is on the disconnected side of
>the circuit.
> ballast coil                   o          o          o          o
depends whether the tail end is earthed or not. This is an off load test
and will only indicate continuity not high resistance.
>I have removed the links towards the front of the engine one at a time,
>starting with #4. Then measure the volts through the plug - meter shows
>13.8 volts. Then #3, #2, #1 - each shows 13.8 volts between plug and
>earth.
> ballast coil                   o          o          o          o
With no final earth this is correct
>But when the last plug in the circuit (#1) is connected to earth, (and
>the circuit is complete), there is no glow at the plugs.
Hmm ... that's the symptom.

When everything is complete, measure the voltage to earth of each plug. 
I'm not sure what the figures actually are but for example
If the circuit is:

battery+-feed+--[---ballast---]-------4-------3-------2-------1---earth

then the voltage readings should be:
13.8v---13.8--13.8------------12----12--9----9--6----6--3----3--0-----0

which in this case would imply a 3v drop across each plug.

If you hit a 0v too early, that's earthing things out too quickly and
you'll burn out all the 'up-circuit' plugs.

If you hit a bigger drop than the rest, in my example more than 3v
across the plug or more than 0v across the interlinks between them then
that item is faulty. I would suspect this to be the case.

Bear in mind that the ballast must read the battery voltage at its
positive end *on load* otherwise the initial feed is faulty somewhere.
Similarly with the earthing point at the tail end.

If you can't measure the voltage on the completed circuit and have
access to a multi-meter with ohms range, with the power *off*, test the
resistance of the individual items - gradually build the circuit from
one end (the earth I would suggest) and measure the total resistance to
earth. You should get a similar pattern to the above voltage one. I
would suspect a sudden jump in resistance across one connection.

 
-- 
Andy Gardiner

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From: Tony Simons <tony@necpwa.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:37:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Glow plug blues

On Thu 18 Feb, Dave Codrai wrote:
> Adrian
> Have you tried each plug straight across a battery to see if they all
> actually glow.
> In the past with other electric's I have found that a circuit with no load
> tests out OK but as soon as a load is applied the whole circuit ceases to
> work, usually traceable, in the end, to a poor connection some where in the

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
> Happy hunting
> Dave
http://www.necpwa.demon.co.uk

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From: Tony Simons <tony@necpwa.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:37:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Glow plug blues

On Thu 18 Feb, Dave Codrai wrote:
> Adrian
> Have you tried each plug straight across a battery to see if they all
> actually glow.
> In the past with other electric's I have found that a circuit with no load
> tests out OK but as soon as a load is applied the whole circuit ceases to
> work, usually traceable, in the end, to a poor connection some where in the

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 16 lines)]
> Happy hunting
> Dave
http://www.necpwa.demon.co.uk

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From: Marijn van der Himst <marijn@multiweb.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:45:02 +0100
Subject: Re: Trailer warning light

[[From:Tom Murkin
[[Subject: Trailer warning light

[[I have an unusual problem with the trailer warning light in my SIII (..)

 Tom,
 Sounds like some sort of short-cut in the circuit, like the wire going
 towards the warning light is getting current from a live-feed somewhere.

 Firstly, clean every connector you spot along the way. If that don't help:
 Try connecting one end of a voltmeter to earth, and attach the other end
 to a sharp pin or needle. Push the needle into said wire, read the voltmeter,
 and follow the wire at intervals back to the tail, this way you might find
 the point where the unwanted current is coming from. 
 
 Good luck,
 Marijn.
 SIII 109'FFR

 p.s. I'm "on the digest", and therefore sometimes late in reactions.

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From: Marijn van der Himst <marijn@multiweb.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:45:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Fuses

  Neill Hogarth wrote:

[[No one, simply no one around here can supply me with the fuses I 
[[need for my Land Rover. Everyone has electrical fuses but they are 
[[all a few millimeters to long.

 I remember you asked this before some time ago, evidently you did not
 get help yet, so mail me direct with exactly the type of fuses you need,
 and your adress, I'll see what I can do. There are a few LR-dealers in
 my area, and also ex-army dumpstores, electronics-shops, etc.
 There *must* be a place that sells them!

 I'll be very busy the next few days, so bare with me...
 And don't get con-fused  ;)
 
 Marijn
 SIII 109'FFR ex-Royal Engineers - Nato Green (with white salt-spicles)

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From: Mike Thomas <miket@sqf.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:33:50 +0000
Subject: Hands on the wheel (was Re: safety (sheep droppings))

"Peter Estibeiro" <petere@srv0.bio.ed.ac.uk> wrote

> If you press the brake with both hands on the steering wheel you 
> reduce your control over the car to a certain extent.  If you then 
> declutch and take one hand off the wheel to change gear while still 
> breaking, you have about 40 to 50 percent reduced control compared to 
> driving at a constant speed with both hands on the wheel. 

I use hand controls when driving my manual Golf. I've always wondered
what the 'Advanced Test' people would say about this as to achieve the
above manoeuvre I use:
- one hand to push the hand control to brake,
- the other to change gear and
- the third to 'maintain direction' aka. steering
except that I'm not endowed with three arms )-: I guess the answer is to
have an automatic but unless you pay silly money for some top of the
range vehicles, an automatic is just tedious (I would rather have less
of a car, with a Land Rover as well :)

LR content - my Range Rover is automatic so less of a problem here but
it does show the difference in force you can exert with your arms rather
than your legs when you *have* to brake (they do have servo's on these
things don't they?!! (-:

1984 RR V8 Auto
-- 
Mike Thomas - Edinburgh - mailto:miket@sqf.hp.com

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From: "Bonorchis, Conrad" <ConradBonorchis@interim.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:13:55 -0000
Subject: RE: Safety/loose nut

Hi all....
After watching the Safety and Braking threads the last few days I just
couldn't resist forwarding this mail that I just received from the za-lro
list.

----

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From: "Neill Hogarth" <Neill.Hogarth@allgaeu.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:22:11 +0100
Subject: Re: fuses

Firstly, thank you all of you for your help with my problem. 

The fuses are glass fuses 29mm long and with the metal ends 
6mm diameter. Inside the glass is a piece of paper with the rating 
and Lucas on it.

A complete set consists of:^O
3 x 10A
7 x 8A
1 x 12A
2 x 2.5A

The problem is not the diameter but the length. There is no space 
for a longer fuse.

Thank you again!
Neill Hogarth

Nesselwang -
 - in the Bavarian Alps

Neill.Hogarth@allgaeu.org
ICQ 11799898

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From: "Iain Tennant" <i.r.tennant@dundee.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:02:02 GMT
Subject: Re: fuses

Neill Hogarth wrote..." 
> The fuses are glass fuses 29mm long and with the metal ends 
> 6mm diameter. Inside the glass is a piece of paper with the rating 
> and Lucas on it.

This is a standard 1.25" x 0.25"  fuse.    If you can't get them from 
a Lucas supplier try Farnell or RS.  Shout for help is you're still 
stuck.

Regards,

Iain  

********************************************************************************
********
Iain Tennant (i.r.tennant@dundee.ac.uk)  ext. 4227
********************************************************************************
********

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From: d.p.round@bangor.ac.uk
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:28:58 GMT
Subject: Re: fuses

> Neill Hogarth wrote..." 
> > The fuses are glass fuses 29mm long and with the metal ends 
> > 6mm diameter. Inside the glass is a piece of paper with the rating 
> > and Lucas on it.
> This is a standard 1.25" x 0.25"  fuse.    If you can't get them from 
> a Lucas supplier try Farnell or RS.  Shout for help is you're still 
> stuck.

1.25in fuses are more like 31mm long but I doubt if there could really
be yet another standard. I suggest that Neill measures the holders to
check that they will take the 31mm length. I'm sure they will. I have 
the Maplin stock codes and telephone number which might be easier than
RS because you don't need an account. (I wonder if Farnell are any
better or if RS have changed their policy but they didn't like dealing
with individuals a while back.)

David

******        David Round - EMail  round@bangor.ac.uk             ******
*****These are my own views, I represent nobody (Well maybe myself)*****
***********I guarantee nothing - Particularly the spelling**************

       

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From: "T.D.I.Stevenson" <gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 15:41:07 -0000
Subject: Re: fuses

You can order stuff from RS via their website without having an account.

Tom Stevenson
University Marine Biological Station, Millport, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland
Tel: 01475 530581  Fax: 01475 530601  Email: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk
Web page: http://www.gla.ac.uk/Acad/Marine/

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From: "Iain Tennant" <i.r.tennant@dundee.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:23:42 GMT
Subject: Re: fuses

> 1.25in fuses are more like 31mm long but I doubt if there could really
> be yet another standard.

The quoted metric size for a 1.25" fuse is 31.75 x 6.35.  

But the good news is.......
I've just checked with our local Lucas and they confirm the fuses in 
question are almost certainly the standard fuses used in the old 
BMC-fitted boxes, nominally 1.25".  All except the 12A  and 2.5A 
are still available as a standard Lucas stock item.  
You'd need to go elsewhere if you needed an exact match for the 12.5 
& 2.5.  They still do a 2.0A which may be heavy enough for the 2.5 
circuit.

I can get the available Lucas ones for you if you want, contact me 
off-group.

> I suggest that Neill measures the holders to

Yes, A good idea anyway.

There is another way to deal with this though.  It's easy to rewire 
glass fuses with standard fuse wire.   Drill a v.small hole in each 
end-cap,  feed a length of appropriate fuse wire through and solder 
the ends and hey-presto a new fuse!

Regards,

Iain

********************************************************************************
********
Iain Tennant (i.r.tennant@dundee.ac.uk)  ext. 4227
********************************************************************************
********

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From: "Rob Smith" <rob@archenland.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:03:00 -0000
Subject: RE: Glow plug blues

Have you thought about converting to the newer set up, with the glowplugs in
parallel.  It will mean doing a bit of rewiring and putting in a new set of
plugs.  But if one fails you don't loose the lot.  Based on a number of
diesels, bot LR & non-LR with the glowplugs in parallel they last between 3
and 3 years at peak efficiency, and will continue to function well beyond
that.

Rob Smith
Mine's the blue 110

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From: "Rob Smith" <rob@archenland.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:38:48 -0000
Subject: RE: fuses

These are the standard fuses that were used on many, many British cars.
They are readily available in the UK, and if I had your address I'd send you
a few, on the basis that next time you see a Brit in a bar you buy him a
drink.

Rob Smith
Mine's the blue 110

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From: "Matthew Reeve & Mel Mauger" <blatchwood@btinternet.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:25:00 -0000
Subject: Re: Glow plug blues

>In the past with other electric's I have found that a circuit with no load
>tests out OK but as soon as a load is applied the whole circuit ceases to
>work, usually traceable, in the end, to a poor connection some where in the
>circuit that will conduct electricity for test purposes but fails as soon
as
>a load is applied.

The easier way would be to turn it on and then test the voltage between
earth and all the various points around the circuit. If a connection is bad,
then there will be a potential difference across them (different voltage),
if it is good then there will be negligible difference between them as there
is negligible resistance.

Matthew
UK, nr Heathrow
1979 2-dr Range Rover 300Tdi

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From: "Matthew Reeve & Mel Mauger" <blatchwood@btinternet.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:22:02 -0000
Subject: Re: fuses

>No one, simply no one around here can supply me with the fuses I
>need for my Land Rover. Everyone has electrical fuses but they are
>all a few millimeters to long.

Neill
Getting fuses from the UK will only ever be a temporary fix, could you not
take out the fuse box and fit an aftermarket one in its place? That way you
could pick a fuse box which you can get the fuses for.
I recently did this with the rangie as I was fed with the fuse box being on
the vulnerable side of the bulkhead. It took less than an hour to do the
whole thing, and I now have a number of spare slots in the fuse box for when
I add stuff.
I don't know how different the 110 fusebox is, but I can't imagine LR went
to the trouble of making it too drastically different.

Matthew
UK, nr Heathrow
1979 2-dr Range Rover 300Tdi

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From: Jerry Hoare <jerryh@orchis.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:50:41 -0000
Subject: RE: Billing '99

I'll be there, but only on Friday.  See you there.

Jerry
LR90TD CSW

>So, how many of us will make it to Billing this year... 

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From: "Neill Hogarth" <Neill.Hogarth@allgaeu.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:29:48 +0100
Subject: RE: fuses

So the fuse problem has been solved. 

My fuses really are 29mm long as I kept insisting. Lucas still make 
them and Iain is getting me a set. 

Thank you all for your help. It is incredible the number of useful and 
helpful answers I got to my request. People even rang Land Rover 
and Lucas for me. I hope that sometime I can be as much use to 
some of you.
 
Neill Hogarth
Bright Orange 110 Station Wagon
OAL LR 32

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From: "Neill Hogarth" <Neill.Hogarth@allgaeu.org>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:33:42 +0100
Subject: Re: fuses

> Getting fuses from the UK will only ever be a temporary fix, could you not
> take out the fuse box and fit an aftermarket one in its place? 
Yes I could and long term I like the idea of replacing all the fuses 
with circuit breakers (we use special DC breakers in the machines 
I build) but at the moment it is -10C and we have 2 meters of snow 
so I just want to make it to spring.

Neill Hogarth
Bright Orange 110 Station Wagon
OAL LR 32

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From: Gordonkerr@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 14:46:25 EST
Subject: Re: fuses

In a message dated 19/02/99 13:22:03 GMT Standard Time,
Neill.Hogarth@allgaeu.org writes:

> The fuses are glass fuses 29mm long and with the metal ends 
>  6mm diameter. Inside the glass is a piece of paper with the rating 
>  and Lucas on it.

You seem to have a number of avenues to try already but one more suggestion.

My caravan has glass fuses similar to the ones you describe (and incidentally
similar to the ones fitted to my 90 too!).
I cannot get at them to check the size at the moment (the van is in store for
the winter) but I am planning to visit a caravan and outdoor leisure
exhibition at the NEC in Birmingham next Friday (26th Feb). This features
boats too (another possible source?).
Anyway, if none of the previous suggestions prove to be of any use let me know
by Thursday and I'll add fuses of the correct size and rating to my list of
things to look for on the stands as I wander around aimlessly.

HTH

Gordon

98 Disco Tdi Safari  87 90 V8 CSW
Bedford

PS I feel obliged to try and help as your previous posting prompted me to
check my fuses and I found one of them wrapped with wire and replaced it. It
might have been the correct wire and still worked as a fuse but I didn't want
to risk it! 
PPS In case you are wondering I found a replacement amongst some bulbs and
fuses my father in law gave me many years ago. There are nowhere near enough
there to make up the complete set you are looking for though.

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From: Paul Williamson <Hartshay@hartshay.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:35:19 +0000
Subject: Heater assembly

I'm replacing the heater box and motor assembly on my s3.  According to
the haynes manual you should drain the whole cooling system befor doing
this.   Is this strictly necessary - or am I missing something obvious?
Paul Williamson

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:58:00 +0100
Subject: Re: Heater assembly

IMHO it is not necessary to drain the entire cooling system just to
change the heater aggregate - the important thing is to ensure that the
heater is full of water (no air bubbles) when you start up again.

Turn of the heater valve and the only fluid you have higher than the
engine is in the heater system.

Filling the heater manually through the pipe which goes to the rear of
the engine, once the pipe which goes to the front of the engine is
connected and the heater valve opened, will obviate air bubbles in the
heater circuit - use a garden hose and just push it up tight.

Good luck.

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
      Visit the "Native Experience" website at 
          http://www.channel6.dk/native
Contact the "Native Experience" film unit in Alaska
          telephone   +1 (907) 230 0359
          e-mail      channel6@alaska.net
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

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From: Elwyn York <Elwyn@ey-eg.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:05:51 +0000
Subject: GOODBYE

Cheers for everthing and all.

Enjoy email all.
Dont work too hard!

Cheers
Elwyn
LR S3 '72 (Very Dented) Lightweight. [47 FL 06] 
"Sub Aerodynamic Green Brick" ICQ: 17087824.
PS. This email account will soon cease. Please use Elwyn_york@hotmail.com.

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