The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

Send Submissions Land-Rover-Owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

From: Justin Omps <jtomps@mail.wm.edu>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:02:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Sighting

Anybody on this list driving a marine blue Series III '88 on Monument Ave
in Richmond, Saturday around 3:30ish.  Wasn't in my Rover was in my
friends Corsica but I was still waving like mad.

Justin Omps
1971 '88 IIA
1974 MGB

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Kirk Hillman <kdhillman@home.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:21:55 -0700
Subject: Wiring, vac port (Long)

    I am in real need of some help from those on the list that are
knowledgeable about automotive electrics.  It seems lately with the
relay thread that there are a few.  My problem is that my IIa was
rewired by a previous owner.  There is no wiring loom at all, just wires
everywhere.  All red and yellow I might add.  I have to give the guy
credit, he did use good wire and he did make a few nice connections, but
the masking tape with pen and pencil on it doesn't do the trick for
identification after a little while.  And besides that, he took most of
the power directly off the battery (30-40 red wires) and straight into
relays and no fuses between.  That can't be right, can it?  One of these
days I am going to buy a good number of rolls of wire and casing and fix
the rat's nest I have in my LR.  I would like to attack the problem with
a clear finished design in mind though, instead of just replacing wires
because I have no confidence in the current system layout.  So I would
like to THOUGHTFULLY design a schematic of the wiring to work from and
update with future changes.  The real problem is that I am not really
knowledgeable in this area.  So this is what I have to start with:

-Negative earth
-90 amp Delco alternator (internally regulated)
-4 fuse box
-Dual lights (wing and grill)
-4 extra lights (2 side, 2 rear)
-Numerous extra gauges
-a line of Bosch relays next to battery
-military light switches (rotary style)
-winch
-servo brake assist

    I don't know if that gives you any idea about what my rig is like,
but I imagine the guy that modified it had only off road performance in
mind, serviceability and maintenance distant second.
    So where do I start?  I have the Haynes manual and the LR workshop
manuals with wiring layouts, but with all these extras and different
parts I am a little daunted at the task.  Besides that, I think a sealed
box somewhere to contain a new fuse box and relays would be a good idea
to organize and localize everything, as well as clean up the
appearance.  Can anyone out there understand my babblings enough to give
me some advise.. or a schematic perhaps :-)
    Also, I would like to put dual batteries in my LR, to support the
winch mainly.  That seems simple enough, but I went to an auto store
here and they got me all confused with 'amperage loss through isolators'
and 'you would be better off with a continuous duty solenoid'.  I am not
stupid, but I went in there with a semi-clear idea of what I wanted, now
I don't know up from down.

    Also, I have a new weber 32/36 that I love on the rover now.  The
only problem that I have had is that I can't connect the vac line for my
vacuum gauge.  There is a little brass plug next to the line that goes
to the distributor (choke mechanism side) for the vacuum advance.  I can
only guess this is another vacuum port.  How does one make use of this
port?  Drill out and buy a sleeve or something that I can connect the
line to?  I have a nice array of gauges on the dash, everything from
volt meter to vacuum, but I would really like them all to work.  They
aren't much use otherwise.

BTW- that thread on relays really helped my understanding of what they
do.

Thanks all,
Kirk Hillman
and "The Banshee Hillman"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Marc Rengers <mr@b4m.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:18:45 +0100
Subject: Re: Glow plugs

>Anyone else seen this phenomenum? Any theories, words of warning or
>urban legends out there on this subject?

Yep, got the same problem..... But I want to take a look at some plug 
which are parallel types. So if one goes Ping, the rest will work nicely. 
Ok, how to find out when you are glowing on only three plugs (or 
worse)............??? Still don't know.

Marc Rengers
Westeremden, Holland
mr@b4m.com
Systemsmanager Academie Minerva Groningen

0596-551334 (home)
050-366675 (work)
06-51550521 (GSM)

http://www.minerva.fk.hanze.nl/landrover/index.html

           --_                                --_         
      _____|__\___                    ________|__\___     
      | _  |   |_ |}                  |  _    |   |_ |}   
      "(_)"""""(_)"                   ""(_)"""""""(_)"
 1978 SIII 88" 2.25 diesel       1968  109"  SIIa 2.25 petrol
     reg. 47-DB-13                     reg. unknown    
      marine blue                 green (15 layers of paint)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:34:52 -0400
Subject: Re: Wiring, vac port (Long)

I can answer the last part first. Do not drill into your carb. If you want
to get a vacuum tap scource and can't find one  drill and tap a fitting into
the manifold. You could hit a transfer port if you mess with the carb.
As to the wiring you have my sympathies as I too have been there. My 88
looked like a nest of red octopuses ( octopi?).
The relays are good and will simplify the 4 head light situation.
My suggestion if you opt to make your own harness is first to track down a
supply of different colour and gauges of wire. Then select a colour scheme
which could be close to Rovers own eg the parking lights (side and tail)
could be green 18ga.
All grounds should be black.
I would suggest a fuse block with more than the 4 fuses you have now, a fuse
for each major circuit would be best. To eliminate the rats nest of power
wires at the battery a buss bar is a good idea mounted in a box on the fire
wall it can take power from the battery by 10 ga (red) and split it to each
of the fuses. This power wire should come via the ampmeter to show if the
battery is charging or discharging and would also be good place to tap the
volt meter into.
you will only need two relays for the head lights one for high beam and one
for low.They will handle the load of 4 lamps each. Mount these close to the
lamps and run the feed in 14ga wire back to the buss. Trigger wires for the
relays will come via the dimmer swich and the feed into the dimmer via the
headlight switch back to the fuse box.Pick a different colour for each of
the wires out of the dimmer switch and use this same colours for the out put
of the relays.
The signal lights can be a little tricky to figure but treat them as a set
of 3 circuits.
1, the power to the signal light switch which comes via a 2wire HD flasher
unit. and
2 the front and rear leftside light and 3 the rightside front and rear both
fed from the switch. Again chose a different colour for left and right after
the switch.
Get a bunch of sandwich bag ties to temporarily tie the wires in place until
you have finished then bundle and wrap them them neatly.
If you wish to do some accurate measuring you can set up a harness board
where a large sheet of ply wood represents the vehicle an nails put in place
to run the wire round. The various electrical componants are drawn on the
board with distances between being exact then as each componant is "wired"
in it is bundled wth others going in the same direction.When complete it is
easy to neatly tape wrap your harness and install it in the vehicle.
Clear as Mud, right?
John and Muddy

Kirk Hillman wrote:

>     I am in real need of some help from those on the list that are
> knowledgeable about automotive electrics.  It seems lately with the
> relay thread that there are a few.  My problem is that my IIa was
> rewired by a previous owner.  There is no wiring loom at all, just wires
> everywhere.  All red and yellow I might add.  I have to give the guy
> credit, he did use good wire and he did make a few nice connections, but
> the masking tape with pen and pencil on it doesn't do the trick for
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 61 lines)]
> Thanks all,
> Kirk Hillman

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 15:55:58 -0500
Subject: Re: Wiring, vac port (Long)

John Cranfield made some exceppent suggestions as to creating a wiring harness
for a Rover, with the busbar, fuses, relays and the like. A few things I might
add are:

1. Sit down with a clean sheet of paper and write up all of the electrical
things you need/want on a Rover - the standard stuff and accessories like
stereos, work lights, rear heater blowers and the like. This way, you can design
all of your accessories and the like into the harness so the banshee's won;t
look like mr. Churchill's.

2. When attaching connectors solder, solder, solder. Unless you want to drop
60-100 dollars for an industrial crimp tool that's the easiest and simplest way
to get god, tight connections. The only exception I make to this is for the
primary circuit to the starter - these should be crimped, preferably in a
hydraulic press with the proper staking tool. Soldered connections can melt in
these circumstances - skin effect in large conductors is an important factor to
consider - don't ask how I know.....8*).

3. Draw a schematic before, and annotate it if you make changes. Knowing what
wire goes where 10 years from now will prevent this from becoming a
SPOT...either for you or the banshee's next owner.

Good on you for attempting this! -ALan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Marc-Andre Leger <ma.leger@wefa.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:10:51 -0500
Subject: What's the right thing

I sold my Lightweight on friday to a person who lives 650 miles away. He
decided to drive it back. He called me last night as he only made it
about 50 miles from here. He said there was an electric problem and he
could not go any further. He said he changed the alternator as he was
not working. I told him I would pay for it. When I got home today there
was a message from the person and he sounded very unhappy. He said we
needed to talk. I called back, it was a Motel and left a message.

I need advice before he calls back.

What would be the 'right thing' for me to do ?

Please, fellow list members, give some advice on this matter...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:30:45 -0800
Subject: RE: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.]

Determine what the problem is. If it was something you knew about or
suspected: pay.
If it was something he did wrong: don't pay.
If the truck was sold as is: don't pay.
If it is more trouble than it is worth to resolve: buy it back from
him at the price you sold it to him +- anything he did to the car.

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

 >
 >  I sold my Lightweight on friday to a person who lives 650
 >  miles away. He
 >  decided to drive it back. He called me last night as he
 >  only made it
 >  about 50 miles from here. He said there was an electric
 >  problem and he
 >  could not go any further. He said he changed the
 >  alternator as he was
 >  not working. I told him I would pay for it. When I got
 >  home today there
 >  was a message from the person and he sounded very
 >  unhappy. He said we
 >  needed to talk. I called back, it was a Motel and left a message.
 >
 >  I need advice before he calls back.
 >
 >  What would be the 'right thing' for me to do ?
 >
 >  Please, fellow list members, give some advice on this matter...
 >
 >  	[Attachment Removed, was 1 lines.]
 >

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:43:38 -0500
Subject: Glow plugs

Adrian writes re his experience with glow plugs, I too found over a 25 year
time span of owning LR diesels that it was best not to mix old and new glow
plugs. My practise was to fit a new set and keep the servicable old ones as
spares, then when the new ones became old ones and started failing I used
the old old ones as spares until I had none left then  I bought a new set
and used the old ones as spares...............
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Vel Natarajan" <vel@enteract.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:09:10 -0600
Subject: Re: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.]

Did he change the alternator because he determined it wasn't working?  Or
did he take it to a garage that told him it wasn't working and charged him
for a new one?  (ie: was this person mechanically competent enough to
determine that it was bad?)  Perhaps it could have been a simple fault which
was misdiagnosed by a garage?

I'd ask how he determined it was a bad alternator and see if you can get him
back on the road (assuming he still wants the vehicle) since he's only 50
miles away.

If he didn't want it, I would probably offer to buy it back at the original
price with the following conditions.  If the original alternator was truly
bad (did he keep it), then you can
write him a check for what it cost him to replace it.  If it was not bad,
then I'd say that he should have to eat the cost of the misdiagnosis, or if
I was feeling generous, I'd pay for half as a show of good will.

Just my opinion.

Good luck and let us know what happens...

Rgds,
Vel Natarajan

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Marc-Andre Leger <ma.leger@wefa.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:47:22 -0500
Subject: Re: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.]

I already agreed to pay for the alternator, 150$.

He did buy it 'AS IS' and the sales contract says so. I had no idea of
any problem and did drive the truck in town with no problem. It was
regularly maintained.

I think I should perhaps offer to refund 500$ for the trouble, from the
comments I got so far, I think it's reasonable, but more input would be
nice...

Thanks

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 16:45:36 -0800
Subject: RE: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines 
deleted.][multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.]

As is means that he bought all the good and all of the bad. I think
you have already done more than enough by paying for the alternator. I
certainly wouldn't pay $500! I see the alternatives (no pun intended)
as refund the purchase price or let him be on his way with whatever
general help you can provide. In your original post you mentioned that
he had called apparently with more bad news. What gives? Is this the
area where you feel that more money to him is justified?

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Marc-Andre Leger <ma.leger@wefa.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 19:50:23 -0500
Subject: Re: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines 

The more bad new was that he is still not on his way, as garages in the
area are closed. He is looking to get a trailer and truck (UHaul) to get
going but on a sunday in rural PA, that's not easy... Monday it will
more likely he can get on his way/

I just don't want to be as A** Hole. I read enough horror stories on
this list. I consider myself honest and acted in all good faith. I guess
I don't want to see myself as cited as a bad example on this list or
elsewhere in the Rover community, this is perhaps an important reason I
wanted to sound all of you for opinions on this subject.

Thank you

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:23:06 -0000
Subject: Re: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines 
[multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.]
	charset="iso-8859-1"

you're paying for the alternator - you could offer to pay his motel room =
as a gesture of good faith, but I would think that was all.
He bought the motor "as is" so you didn't need to pay for the alternator =
really. It isn't your fault that he can't get a trailer.
Let's face it, most of us would not try to drive 650 miles in a vehicle =
we had just bought.
You don't sound like the kind of guy who'd ask more for the vehicle than =
what it was worth... if he paid for it happily then you've already done =
more than enough financially - but just what would be expected from =
someone on this list morally.
To be honest, if I bought a vehicle that broke down soon afterwards I'd =
get my mates to help me, not the guy I just bought it off.
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+           
     I !__|  [_]|_\___  
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01BE4281.1A006340
	[ Original post was HTML ]
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: text/html; ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 55 lines.]	

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:06:38 -1000
Subject: Re: What's the right thing

>I already agreed to pay for the alternator, 150$.
>He did buy it 'AS IS' and the sales contract says so. I had no idea of
>any problem and did drive the truck in town with no problem. It was
>regularly maintained.

AS-IS says it all.  Understanding that it is an 20+ year old vehicle, if you
honestly presented the known state of the vehicle, I am not sure I would
feel obligated to refund any money.  Maybe I am just a @$$ for feeling like
this.
>I think I should perhaps offer to refund 500$ for the trouble, from the
>comments I got so far, I think it's reasonable, but more input would be
>nice...
>regularly maintained.

If you refund him the $$ for this problem, what about in a month if
something else goes wrong?  For how long will you feel obligated?  Again,
maybe I am an @$$, but I am always %100 upfront with the known problems when
I sell an object.  Wife says I keep blowing the sale.  But if after the
sale, someone calls back up with a problem that I didn't know about, I don't
feel guilty.  I must mention that I have not ever had a call back.
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 18:11:45 -1000
Subject: Re: What's the right thing

>I just don't want to be as A** Hole. I read enough horror stories on
>this list. I consider myself honest and acted in all good faith.

So , you got another rover for sale?  I will be right over with cash, and
expect a call with in an hour that I broke down.

Seriously, it is very nice to hear that there are still people out there
that have integrity and honesty.  Kinda sounds like you have down more then
could be expected.

Good luck
Pete

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:53:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: drive thrus

>Why do people get so upptiy about their drive-thrus?

  I went thru taco bell on my mountain bike once.  Told them my car was
broke down, they served me!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:07:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Land Rover = Oxwagon

>I think we have something here.

  oxwagon...LOW on horse power
  series rover...ditto!

  Scott Wickham
  1972 Ser III
  Zebra truck

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:03:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines 	        
[multipart

>The more bad new was that he is still not on his way, as garages in the
>area are closed.

  A garage!?  You mean to tell me that someone drove 600 some miles, bought
a Ser Rover, and did'nt bring his own tool box???  Does he know he's not
buying a regular vehicle?  Obviously this person did'nt look into old
Rovers like he should have.  And then to call the PO and whine?  Like Mr.
Elson, I would have got help from my friends, no whining!  You should buy
the vehicle back, and sell it to someone who knows what there buying.  And
a lightweight is it?  They're kind of scarce here in North America, are'nt
they?  I'd hold on to it if it was me.  You did'nt mention why you were
selling it.  Give him his money back and tell him to buy a jeep!!  Want
some cheese to go with that whine?!

  Scott Wickham
  1972 Ser III
  Zebra truck

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Kirk Hillman <kdhillman@home.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:24:59 -0700
Subject: Relays

Okay, will someone with patience enough to work with a 2 year old,
please explain to me what exactly a relay does?  I think I know, but I
want a little reassurance here.  And also explain typical wiring etc.
(main power from battery, signal wires from switch, fuse located...)

Thanks again,
Kirk Hillman

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:17:46 +0200
Subject: Re: Waving (was American Safari)

> Hey! Something really strange happened to me today. Someone in a Disco
> actually waved at me in my decrepit old Rangie.

Mayhaps a lurker from the list feeling guilty...

All the best,

Andy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 08:28:51 +0200
Subject: Re: Range Rover shimmy

Con wrote;

> matter, but will look at it. I will order a set of pan-hards on Monday.
> They are cheap, and might as well replace them when I go to install the

Con if the PS box is leaking or likely to leak (ha ha ha) then try to 
put a polybush on the steering box end of the panhard rod as it will 
last longer in contact with ATF.  I'm not a fan of polybushes but 
they do have their place...

All the best,  

Andy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 01:38:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Relays

>Okay, will someone with patience enough to work with a 2 year old,
>please explain to me what exactly a relay does?

  A relay is an elecrtomechanical device that turns something on.  It
allows all the 'juice' to get to the accessory, not be lost in running from
the acc. to the switch, then back out to the acc.  You can run 16ga. wire
from the relay to the switch, and 12ga. from the relay (mounted close to
the battery) to the batt., to the ground, and to the acc.  So, if you put
your relays near the batt.  you only have to run two long wires.  Twelve
ga. to the lights (on the push bar, for example), and a 16ga. to the in-cab
switch.  The in-cab switch is like a remote control for the relay.  It
allows the 'juice' to run thru the 'fat' wire from the batt., thru the
relay (a circut that you completed by flicking the 'remote' in-cab switch),
to the 'lights'.  A shorter path than having to go to the cab, then to the
'lights'.  Got it?  Hope this helped.  Took me a long time to figure this
out on my own!  Keep grounds short and 'fat'.  That seems to be where alot
of problems occur, the ground.  With time, the ground might diminish,
because of rust, for example.  Always check the ground if something is'nt
working.  Then the fuse, of course, and so on...

  Scott C. Wickham Jr.
  urbncby@sgi.net
  1972 Ser III
  Zebra truck

  Scott C. Wickham Jr.
  urbncby@sgi.net
  1972 Ser III
  Zebra truck 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Steve Rochna" <mns@oasisol.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:58:30 -0800
Subject: Wiper blades

In Virginia I got wiper blade replacements at a place called BAP GEON.  I
was Mickey Mousing for a couple years and saw them by chance when I was
buying some light bulbs - perfect fit.

Steve

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:23:53 +0200
Subject: Re: Range Rover shimmy

Mike wrote;

> suspension can operate without the damper, then it can
# easily be removed. If the damper was the problem then
> the shimmy should go away. I can't believe the damper

Mike I think the writers were implying that the damper was the 
problem because it was worn/buggered and not working, rather 
than being the root cause of the vibration.

All the best,

Andy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:37:57 +0200
Subject: Re: Range Rover shimmy

Con wrote;

> new steering box to be delivered. The box that's in it now is real bad,
> the sector shaft is quite loose and it leaks P/S fluid. I figure that

Con the shakes may not be due to that.  The sector shaft will only 
move by about 0.3mm each way before it starts to really jet ATF 
out ~ about 5 litres per tank of fuel in my experience (don't ask...).

All the best,

Andy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 10:21:58 +0200
Subject: Re: Range Rover shimmy

Mike wrote;

> The damper is optional equipment to absorb some of the
> violent jerking through the steering system when off road

Mike IMO the damper on the RR or Disco can't be considered 
optional.  The Series Rovers (not sure about Defenders, but I think 
they are as rangie/disco) had a bush (often "Railco") on one end of 
the 'kingpin'.  This had a preload designed to provide a damping 
effect, by creating friction between the bush and pin.  This tends to 
damp vibration caused by the inherent misbalance of wheels and 
tyres.

The rr/disco has a roller bearing top and bottom and whilst there is 
a preload figure I would expect it to be less.  I don't know the exact 
figures so am guessing, but the twin bearing setup must provide 
free movement as compared to the bush/bearing assy.

Agreed on a perfectly set up system there should be no need for a 
steering damper, but in the real world I think it has an important 
role.  On rangie I had and occasional brief vibration on tar at speed, 
due to a worn track rod end...  the swivel bearings and preload 
were the first thing I looked at, but were fine.  The problem ceased 
with replacement of the ball joint, which in Series Land Rover terms 
still had 100K miles left in it (i.e. play but not 'slop'...).  The wheel 
was free to oscillate very slightly.  The new joint added no damping 
to the system, but re-established a low play link to the steering 
damper.

If I take the damper off (like last time I bent it), I get all sorts of 
interesting vibrations through the steering from my slightly-not-
straight wheels.  The damper masks those as well as performing 
the anti-kickback function as described.

All the best,

Andy

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[spamkill: @[0-9][0-9]* input: %s]	 X-Sender: wrm@192.168.0.1

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/mixed; ]
From: Marc-Andre Leger <ma.leger@wefa.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:27:18 -0500
Subject: Re: What's the right thing[multipart mime alternative 6 lines 	        

 >>And a lightweight is it?  They're kind of scarce here in North
America, are'nt
>>hey?  I'd hold on to it if it was me.  You did'nt mention why you were

>>selling it.

I purchased a D90.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  END OF * LIST DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 28 lines 1452 [forwarded 96 whitespace 0]
 Output: lines 855 [content 758  forwarded 43 (cut  53) whitespace 0]

Land Rover Owner Subscription Information:

	* All new subscription requests are via the digest. *

In addition so subscribing and unsubscribing, the Frequently Asked
Questions (FAQ) file and the last month of daily digests may be retrieved
(by mail) from majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net

Useful commands for this are 'index lro-digest' which returns a list of
files available, as well as 'get lro-digest <filename>', etc.

World Wide Web Sites start at
	 http://www.Land-Rover.Team.Net/pages.html
(shadow) http://www2.Land-Rover.Team.Net/pages.html

If majordomo barfs at something, and you're convinced he should have 
understood what you sent him, contact majordomo-owner@Land-Rover.Team.Net

  -B