The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: "Nick Bennett" <bennett_nick@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:52:29 PST
Subject: Repair manuals

Next question,

In LROi and LRW the genuine repair manuals seem to be 2 parts for the 
series 11 (engine and then rest of vehicle) but there only seems to be 
one manual for the series 111. Is this correct or do I have a problem 
reading? I am going to need this/these plus the parts catalogue, 
anything else anyone would recommend? My budget is by no means endless 
but I know the right sources of information could save me hours during 
the rebuild.

Thanks again

Nick

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From: Mick Forster <cmtmgf@mail.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:37:42 +0000
Subject: Re: Repair manuals

Nick Bennett wrote:
> Next question,
> In LROi and LRW the genuine repair manuals seem to be 2 parts for the
> series 11 (engine and then rest of vehicle) but there only seems to be
> one manual for the series 111. Is this correct 

Yes. The Series III manual is printed 'landscape' as opposed to
'portrait' and the images are smaller. Some of the details in the Series
II manual are missing from the Series III (cut-away diagrams of engines
and gearbox and pictures of  how the drive is conveyed through the
gearbox in different gears)
You really need both! plus the Haynes manual plus all the other Rover
'How-to' booklets plus 30 years experience etc.

Or you could just ask the list ...........

Mick Forster
1972 109" Series III Safari 2.25 petrol
1962 88"  Series IIa 2.25 petrol
http://gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~mick/landpics.html
http://members.aol.com/IssyJames/LRlinks/LRlinks.htm

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 99 15:54:50 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Xfer case mods 

dbobeck@ushmm.org wrote:
> If I remember correctly the fix was to make the yellow lever pop up when the
> red lever was in the neutral position, as it is not until you engage low range

>Umm, Dave, that's how it works in any case...

no, it doesn't pop up until it hits lo range.
if I am wrong about this than no mods would be necessary to make it come out of 
4 hi on the move. just pop the red lever back into neutral. the problem with 
shifting on the move into lo-range is in the engagement of two straight cut non 
synchro gear wheels. It *can* be done with some skillful double clutching. I 
have only heard of this but not tried it. Apparently it is required sometimes 
in desert travel.

right?

I'll check this out tonight

later
dave

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:06:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Ball Joints

Quite right, What happens is that the taper is momentarily distorted which 
breaks
the lock. As most of us have found at times this lock of the two tapered parts 
is
unbelievably strong but a distortion will free it.
John and Muddy

Faye and Peter Ogilvie wrote:

> I think I got the picture but just want to be sure.  You are advocating
> hitting the arm side ways against a backing hammer.  Not striking down or
> up to drive the ball joint out.  Just seems a bit odd but if it works, what
> the hey!!!
> Aloha Peter
> At 09:14 AM 1/21/99 -0400, you wrote:
> >All you say is true Mitch but in this situation you would have the
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 24 lines)]
> >        [ truncated by lro-lite (was 11 lines)]
> >> mushroom after repeated blows and the tip will still have an edge.

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:10:26 -0500
Subject: RE: ball joint

>I don't know what we are defining as a "universal" ball joint tool but if
what
you are talking about looks like a pickle fork on steriods you've got the
right animal. but you should be able to buy one for less than 65 pounds. I
think they are cheaper than that at Snap-On (and they are outrageous). I
look
for tools that will do the job a few times even if I wouldn't hang them
above
the mantle.

>Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM 

At Northern Tools and Equipment (http://www.northerntools.com) one can
obtain a 'pickle fork' that inserts into your standard air
[spamkill: @[0-9][0-9]* input: %s]	 hammer...@15$US...sure 'beats' the 
fork/hammer method.

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:19:55 -0400
Subject: Re: King Kong

I f one of my co workers did that to me I'd go ape.
John and Muddy

Andy Grafton wrote:

> Sorry about the funny name ~ my co-workers idea of a joke.
> Andy

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:33:44 +0200
Subject: Re: Body panel compatibility

Nick Bennett wrote:

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:33:36 +0200
Subject: Re: King Kong

> I f one of my co workers did that to me I'd go ape.

Boom Boom as Basil Brush would say...

Well it made me smile!

Have a good weekend, John.

All the best,

Andy

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:38:22 +0200
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Xfer case mods 

> shifting on the move into lo-range is in the engagement of two straight cut 
non 
# synchro gear wheels. It *can* be done with some skillful double clutching. I 
> have only heard of this but not tried it. Apparently it is required sometimes 
# in desert travel.

Dave you are correct in that (well on our SIII) the lever must go all 
the way into low to pop up the yellow knob.

Warning to those not aware : the procedure below is dangerous to 
your transfer gearbox.

Hi-Low shifting is as you say possible on the move, even at 
considerable speeds (like 20kph), but you have to get it right or you 
lose teeth off the low range selection gear... Regular double 
clutching isn't sufficient to speed the 'box up enough to match the 
gear speeds so what you do is put the transfer lever into neutral, 
select the appropriate gear on the main gearlever, rev the engine to 
match engine speed to ground speed and gently move the transfer 
lever into low.  You should dip the clutch to disconnect the engine 
from the gearbox just as you begin to move the transfer lever for 
safety's sake, as you'll do a lot more damage to the transfer 'box if 
you get the speeds wrong with the engine doing 3,000rpm *and* 
driving the gearbox.

When you let the clutch back in make sure that the engine is still 
revved way up or you'll go through the windscreen.  Use more revs 
rather than less.

The above applies to any of the conventional transfer cases; I'm not 
sure quite how it would affect the epicyclic gears in the chain driven 
'box as found on Rangies.

In the real world I have only ever gone from 1st high to 1st low in 
this way, only in a SIII, and only then as a last ditch attempt to 
preserve momentum on sand when I absolutely couldn't afford to 
become stationary.  I think changing to 2nd and then doing the 
transfer thing (as would be more appropriate) would take too long in 
that situation.  No this is definitely not advised, but after a couple of 
goes I managed it without nasty gear noises.  Yes all the teeth 
were still left on the gears!

Out of interest I played gently with the same thing on the road, 
where the car would roll along at a constant speed.  I find it easier 
with Rangie's (LT95) hi-low selection lever than I do with the SIII as 
it is smoother and you can feel if it's not right long before you 
engage.  Maybe the spiral cut gears have something to do with it?

All the best,

Andy
This comes with the usual disclaimers.

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From: "Braman Wing" <bcw6@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:09:43 PST
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

Bill Adams wrote:
">From this we must assume that:
A. You live on a street where no traffic exists, nullifying the need to 
stop at the end of the driveway.
B. You do not recieve newspapers or mail, again negating any need to 
stop 
at the end of the driveway.
C. You do not like to bend at the waist and move a lever, or at least 
prefer to do so while the vehicle is in motion."

Actually, there is heavy and fast traffic, and I cannot see oncoming 
traffic until it is on top of me. My driveway drops down from the road 
at about a 1 in 4 grade with no shoulder or flat part to stop on. The 
drainage is such that my dirveway is frequently covered in a thick sheet 
of ice(it is a rental, otherwise I'd get off my ass and do something 
about the problem). So it is a sort of "all or nothing deal" when I exit 
my driveway.  My standard procedure is to engage 4wd to get out onto the 
road, slow to a near stop to get into 2wd, and then proceed. I wouldn't 
mind this if oncoming cars could see me, but with the hill, the 60mph 
traffic cannot see me stopped there and I have had several near-misses. 
Naturally, I would prefer to be able to continue accelerating and shift 
out of 4wd at my convenience. Sometimes I just leave it in 4wd until I 
get to a more convenient stopping place, but that means driving about 
1/2mile on dry pavement in 4wd, which I don't like to do for obvious 
reasons.

Now, aren't you sorry you asked? ;-)

Braman

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:28:13 +0200
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

dbobeck@ushmm.org wrote:
> >Umm, Dave, that's how it works in any case...
> no, it doesn't pop up until it hits lo range.
> if I am wrong about this than no mods would be necessary to make it come out 
of
> 4 hi on the move. just pop the red lever back into neutral. the problem with
> shifting on the move into lo-range is in the engagement of two straight cut 
non

Dave, all my Landy's pop up the 4wd knob when the Hi/Lo selector hits
neutral... unless... Oh damn! Does this mean I have to take the front
output shaft housings off AGAIN?
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: "Nick Bennett" <bennett_nick@hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:47:15 PST
Subject: Roof top tents

Anyone out there have any experience with roof top tents? The 600+ukp 
required to buy a Brownchurch folding tent seem a lot of money for the 
size of tent you are actually getting. How does this compare to a 
dormobile roof conversion? The interior will probably go along the lines 
of a dormobile but ideally I wanted room for a full length roof rack, 
possibly even one extended imfront of the windscreen. The other reason 
is that I would like to fit an external roll cage at some point in the 
future.

Anyone able to comment or give advise to a complete newbie!?

Nick

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From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:09:03 -0600
Subject: RE: Roof top tents

I can't give you an opinion about the tents.  However, I will tell you to
relook at the extended front roof rack.  They will tend to block your view
of traffic lights so unless all your driving is rural backcountry, I would
not extend rack beyond the front roof line.

cwolfe

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[spamkill: @[0-9][0-9]* input: %s]	 X-Sender: wrm@192.168.0.1

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 07:38:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Land Rovers are y2k compliant

Huh???

A Y2K bug issue in a Land Rover would never occur to me.  Since this is 
the leaf spring mail list I'm suprised it occured to anyone else on the 
list.  SO what could go wrong?  The battery refuse to let electricity 
flow down the wire?  Solution's simple.  Dont show a calander to you 
battery 8^)

My trouble seems to be the Y2K-1 bug.
Here it is January and my 2 year old genuine Lucas ignition switch 
stopped working.  Suddenly the base of my windscreen lets in tons of 
water (Could it be from those holes where my dual wiper motors used to go 
through?) and my instrument panel mounted tach has water half way up the 
glass.  All that is missing is the little gold fish.  I have disassembled 
tach drying, a replacment ignition switch comming and since it is not 
raining today I'm going out with a hair dryer and a hose to locate my 
windscreen leak(s).

Oh on the Majove Trail New Years run the big nut holding the ball base of 
my CB whip antenna loosened and my antenna twisted down shorting the 
electrical connections.  Wouldn't you know I'll have to remove the stove 
to get at the back of the connection.  To remove the stove I'll need to 
remove the sink cabinet.  SO much stuff so little space.

Also during the Majove run I've started hearing these cracks up front.  
Looks like new frame  spring bushing time.

WHo cares about a possible Y2K bug on series rigs??  Its the Y2K-1 bug 
that's attacking my car.

TeriAnn Wakeman                                  Border to Border
Santa Cruz, California                          Expedition Society 
twakeman@cruzers.com                           "Live the adventure"
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman           http://www.bordertoborder.com

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From: David Scheidt <david@infocom.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:39:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Xfer case mods 

On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 dbobeck@ushmm.org wrote:
:shifting on the move into lo-range is in the engagement of two straight cut 
non 
:synchro gear wheels. It *can* be done with some skillful double clutching. I 
:have only heard of this but not tried it. Apparently it is required sometimes 
:in desert travel.

Mr. Bobeck may never have engaged low range while the green hell is in
motion, but he has had his passanger do it for him.  

David

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:36:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Roof top tents

Ok Nick lets give this bit of a think. Do you want the roof rack to hold
stuff or to look cool?.  If it's to hold stuff do you need all that stuff
with you?  If it is to look cool forget it, you know are cool you own a
Landy. Right we don't have to worry about the roof rack.  Now on  to the
roll cage. It is possible to design a satisfactory cage for use with a
Dormobile type roof. You now have to decide which you want, the rooftop or
the Dormobile type. Will you just use it occasionally for camping but mostly
as a daily driver?  Yes ? then the roof top is more practical as you can
take it off and not haul the extra weight or worry about the extra height.
No? You plan to use it a lot for camping and expeditions then the Dormie is
the best bet. You will quickly come to love the ability to stand inside your
living quarters.
John and Muddy
Nick Bennett wrote:

> Anyone out there have any experience with roof top tents? The 600+ukp
> required to buy a Brownchurch folding tent seem a lot of money for the
> size of tent you are actually getting. How does this compare to a
> dormobile roof conversion? The interior will probably go along the lines
> of a dormobile but ideally I wanted room for a full length roof rack,
> possibly even one extended imfront of the windscreen. The other reason
> is that I would like to fit an external roll cage at some point in the
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 10 lines)]
> future.
> Anyone able to comment or give advise to a complete newbie

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:41:42 -0500
Subject: Lists

Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com> wrote:

>7. WD40 is for cleaning upholstery

>Ah ha, that's why my seats are so slippery and shiny, eh Dave?  ;-)

>Paul in Victoria. who bought his used 'deluxe' seats from one Mr. Bobeck...

No, really.  WD-40 *is* the best stuff for vinyl.  (Got this tip from Chris
"The Badger" Laws, and his business is upholstery.)  Look at it this way.
Vinyl is basically petroleum with its molecules rearranged a bit.  And what
would be better for oil than another oil?  Above all, never use "Armor-All"
or another 'silicone' product.  All that will do is make the stitching in
the vinyl brittle.  The vinyl will look fine for a while then suddenly the
seat will just come apart.... Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:44:56 -0800
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:12:47 +0200
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

dbobeck@ushmm.org wrote:
>> If I remember correctly the fix was to make the yellow lever pop up when the
> red lever was in the neutral position, as it is not until you engage low range

>Umm, Dave, that's how it works in any case...

I think you'll find that you have to pull the high-low lever (red knob) all the 
way back into low before the 2wd-4wd (yellow knob) selector will release back 
to 2wd.  I'm talking about a Series III here, maybe the earlier models are 
different.  But that's what it says in the owner's manual and that's what I 
have 
always had to do in the vehicle.  Simply pulling the high-low lever into 
neutral does not release the 2wd-4wd selector.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:49:25 -1000
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)

>>  I think you have it backwards.  Seems to me that an Bovine
>Assualt leads to
>>  Rover ownership.
>Hmmm... and I did a very deep dive into a very shallow swimming
>pool at the age of 6.

If this is right, then I am probably in real trouble:
5 fell out (ok jumped) the 2nd story of a barn, no hay stack.
6 fell out the back end of a pickup
12 snow sliding accident, had to use my face to stop I was going so fast, 3
whole days left unaccounted for.
As far as animal attacks, all I can relocolest is a mob of chickens chasing
me at age 3 or 4.
Pete

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From: "Martin Bagshaw" <mbags@nortelnetworks.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: Landrovers for sale by CND GOV !

The CADC (Crown Assets Distribution Center) in Edmonton has the following
LRs for sale, by sealed bid ! 

1986 Land Rover model 90FFR (Rolled/Target practice ?)
1991 Land Rover Ambulance
1988 Land Rover Ambulance 
  
Check the link below for pictures and details.

http://www.pwgsc.gc.ca/cadc/text/west/cars0199-e.htm

The sale is only open to Canadian citizens. 
           
Martin Bagshaw
Ottawa
58 Ser II 88
 

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 09:08:09 -0500
Subject: Re[5]: Diff. drain plug removal  

>7. WD40 is for cleaning upholstery

>Ah ha, that's why my seats are so slippery and shiny, eh Dave?  ;-)

>Paul in Victoria.
>who bought his used 'deluxe' seats from one Mr. Bobeck...

oops, no sorry, that was left over from one of my more adventurous forays "into 
the bush"

;)

later
dave

"life is a bowl of even smaller bowls"

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 10:59:27 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Xfer case mods 

.Now, aren't you sorry you asked? ;-)

>Braman

Hey Braman! I have your answer. go up the driveway in 4d lo, then you can just 
mash the lever back up into 2wd hi while you're on the go. 

simple eh?

later
dave

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 10:55:29 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Xfer case mods 

:
>You can shift out of 4wd low range by double clutching, by the way.  

you can shift out of 4wd low range on the fly without double clutching. the box 
is made to work this way. put the clutch down and the gearbox in neutral, and 
mash the red lever up towrd the friewall. been doing that for years, no noises, 
no problem. if the gearbox is IN gear, and the vehicle is moving, it will make 
a loud clunk.

  Is there any speed at which you shouldn't or can't shift between 2-Hi and
4-Hi?

tyechnically no, but I can't imagine doing it over 30 or 40 mph. nake sure you 
put the clutch down first. You shouldn't be doing much over 30-40 in 4wd 
conditions.

> Similarly, is there any way (without xfer-case mods) to just shift to 
>transfer neutral to pop 4-Hi to 2-Hi on the fly?

no. I don't think so. I was supposed to check this out last night but I forgot.

later
dave

"life is a bowl of even smaller bowls"

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 11:11:13 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: Window seals

>.Umm, I haven't the foggiest on how this could be achieved since series 
>windows are sliders and are Defenders roll-ups.

the "window/door hole" of defenders and series are the the same size, i.e, the 
doors are interchangeable. the defender door seals will fit but you've got to 
cut the lip off the seal mounting flange. those that have used them have 
reported pleasing results. 

I have also seen well restored vehicles that used the original seals that 
sealed so well that it was hard to pull the door shut. very nice indeed. I like 
the defenders style though. only reason I haven't done it is the soft top/hard 
top swap thing

later
dave

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:05:50 +0200
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

"Faure, Marin" wrote:
>I think you'll find that you have to pull the high-low lever (red knob) all 
the way >back into low before the 2wd-4wd (yellow knob) selector will release 
back 
to 2wd.  I'm >talking about a Series III here, maybe the earlier models are 
different.  But that's >what it says in the owner's manual and that's what I 
have 
always had to do in the >vehicle.  Simply pulling the high-low lever into 
neutral does not release the 2wd-4wd >selector.

OK, I'm going to keep quiet from now on, it appears that your L-R's are
fundamentally different from the ones I have experience of (I have owned
5, have 4 now and used dozens in the army).

If the output shafts are set up properly - i.e.. free to move in the
output shaft housing, and the output shaft housing is correctly aligned
with the transfer case - with the correct preload on the springs, etc.
then the 4wd dog will quite happily disengage when the selector shaft is
moved forward into the neutral position. I spent the last two days
working on the transfer box / output shaft housing and selectors of one
of my R6's, so I've had selectors in chunks - sorry if I sound a little
edgy :-)
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:07:39 +0200
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)

Peter Hope wrote:
> As far as animal attacks, all I can relocolest is a mob of chickens chasing
> me at age 3 or 4.

Hey Pete, kicked in the head by chickens... what's that about fowl play?

Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:17:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 01:25:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Xfer case mods

>Is there any speed at which you shouldn't or can't shift between 2-Hi and
4-Hi? Similarly, is there any way (without xfer-case mods) to just shift to
transfer neutral to pop 4-Hi to 2-Hi on the fly?

According to the manual and my experience, you can shift from 2wd to 4wd any 
time at any speed.  Just push the selector (yellow knob) down and that's it.  
If 
you have locking hubs, they obviously have to be engaged before you do this or 
Expensive Things happen.  I believe the problem in shifting from 4wd back to 
2wd 
is that it's difficult or impossible to stop all the transfer gears from 
turning if the vehicle is moving.  Pulling the transfer case into neutral will 
keep 
the power from getting through from the transmission, but if the vehicle is 
moving it won't stop the transfer case mainshaft from turning, and that, I 
believe, 
is where the problem lies.  This is the reason you have to stop so the High-Low 
lever can be pulled all the way back into Low to release the 2wd-4wd selector 
and then moved forward to High.

I'd love to know Land Rover's theory for their shifting system, especially 
since the drive train was patterned after the Jeep's.  The Willys Jeep has a 
very 
nice two lever arrangement whereby one lever shifts between 2wd and 4wd and the 
other between High Range and Low Range.  The levers are totally independent of 
each other.  Ages ago I drove a Willys pickup for a couple of summers on a 
ranch in the Colorado Rockies, and while the details are fuzzy I believe I 
could 
shift from 2wd to 4wd simply by depressing the clutch and shifting.  Going back 
to 2wd was no different.  I did have to stop to go from High to Low range, 
however, but that was because of the radically different gear ratios, and the 
fact that the transfer case was not sycromesh (nor is the Land Rover's).  As I 
recall, shifting from Low Range back to High Range could be done with the 
vehicle moving, as it can in the Land Rover, although you automatically get 2wd 
High 
in the Land Rover when you do this.

I assume the first Land Rover engineers had a specific reason why they wanted 
people to be able to shift from 2wd to 4wd without having to use the clutch.  
So 
far as I know, that's the only advantage that Land Rover's setup has over the 
Jeep's.  Maybe, as the Land Rover was originally designed to operate all sorts 
of 
PTO equipment like hay balers, harvesters, seed drills, etc., the idea was that 
if you were pulling one of these things and needed 4wd all of a sudden, you 
wouldn't have to interrupt power to the PTO machine to get it.  This is the 
only reason I can think of as to why Land Rover designed their shifting system 
the 
way they did.  If anyone else has any other theories, or actually knows, I'd 
love to hear them.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:08:43 -0800
Subject: RE: Land Rovers are y2k compliant

I for one am not too worried about my SII (or my '83 BMW for that matter)
being Y2K compliant.  I am  a little leery about all of those electronic gas
(petrol) pump consoles at the local Petro-Can locking up on New Years day,
so I think that I'll fill up both vehicles on New Years Eve...

Paul in Victoria.

attached Y0K joke...

Y zero K.  Translated from Latin scroll dated 2BC:
Dear Cassius:
Are you still working on the Y zero K problem? This change from BC to AD is
giving us a lot of headaches and we haven't much time left. I don't know how
people will cope with working the wrong way around. Having been working
happily downwards forever, now we have to start thinking upwards.  You would
think that someone would have thought of it earlier and not left it to us to
sort it all out at this last minute.  
I spoke to Caesar the other evening. He was livid that Julius hadn't done
something about it when he was sorting out the calendar. He said he could
see why Brutus turned nasty. 
We called in Consultus, but he simply said that continuing downwards using
minus BC won't work and as usual charged a fortune for doing nothing useful.
Surely we will not have to throw out all our hardware and start again?
Macrohard will make yet another fortune out of this I suppose.  
The money lenders are paranoid of course! They have been told that all usery
rates will invert and they will have to pay their clients to take out loans.
Its an ill wind ......As for myself, I just can't see the sand in an
hourglass flowing upwards. 
We have heard that there are three wise men in the East who have been
working on the problem, but unfortunately they won't arrive until it's all
over. I have heard that there are plans to stable all horses at midnight at
the turn of the year as there are fears that they will stop and try to run
backwards, causing immense damage to chariots and possible loss of life.
Some say the world will cease to exist at the moment of transition.  Anyway,
we are still continuing to work on this blasted Y zero K problem. I will
send a parchment to you if anything further develops.  If you have any ideas
please let me know. 
Plutonius

Optimism is the faith that leads to achievement. Nothing can bedone without
hope
and confidence.-Helen Keller

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:30:57 -1000
Subject: Rovers and Tea (a sighting of sorts)

Aloha,
for christmas, a relative sent us some "Fortunes Tea".  It comes packed in a
small wooden box, with a sliding wooden top.  I was fiddling with the box
last night, trying to determine if I had any use for the box.  Pulled all
the tea bags out and what looked like a recipe card, guess 'dumped on the
counter' would be more accurate.  Wife comes in and makes a coment "you and
your land rovers".  Caught me very much off guard, huh?  She hands me the
'recipe' card.  It is actually a short story that begins:
"Kelli gazed out of the window of the Land Rover at the fast falling sheets
of monsoon rains"
Last mention of the rover, but it was a nice coincidence.  Tea is pretty
good also.
Pete

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:33:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)

*** 
If this is right, then I am probably in real trouble: 5 fell out (ok
jumped) the 2nd story of a barn, no hay stack. 6 fell out the back end of
a pickup 12 snow sliding accident, had to use my face to stop I was going
so fast, 3 whole days left unaccounted for. As far as animal attacks, all
I can relocolest is a mob of chickens chasing
me at age 3 or 4.
***

How's about:

3 Fell out of the back of an 88 while my 5 year old brother was
driving...he was just begining to master the hand throttle (legs
too short to reach the pedals) and Dad wasn't paying attention...
BONK.

Won't even go into the number of incidents being kicked, bitten, or
chased by large farm animals or Newfoundlands (do they count?)...

rd/nige

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From: dbobeck@ushmm.org
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 99 12:50:46 -0500
Subject: Re: Body panel compatibility 

Hi all,

>I am new to the list and have recently purchased a LWB series3 station wagon 
>in need of a lot of work. What I would like to know firstly is if the doors of 
>a late 110 (new style hadles) will fit ... Also if I fit a 110 bulkhead and 
>want to keep the safari roof will I have to use a series windscreen 

110 doors will fit the ser III. you have to replace the striker for the latch., 
and the door stay might be different. 110 bulkhead should fix that.
A 110 roof will be necessary if you want to go with a 110 screen. they will all 
fit the 109.
you can retain the SIII bulkhead, just cut off the SIII windsheild hinges and 
bolt up the 90/110 ones. oh yes and fix up the wipers too...

later
dave

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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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From: "Kevin Campbell" <KCampbell@AdRem.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:50:19 -0800
Subject: Compression readings

Greetings

I have just purchase a '65 109 SW 2.25 petrol, which will be shipped to me
in a few weeks. One thing I'm puzzling over that came up when I looked at it
was the engine compression. Using the "stuff in and hang on" rubber ended
gauge available from the seller I only saw 85 Lbs. With a reading this low I
was a) surprised it ran and b) expecting blowback from the filler tube or
clouds of black smoke - neither of which were present.

When it gets to its new home I'll test it again with a known gauge, until
then does this make any sense? The engine was surpisingly quiet, with no
rattles, wheezes, clackety-clacks that I had been expecting.

One other thing I'm expecting to look at is the rear diff, for which a used
replacement was thrown in. With the road wheels immobile how much play would
you expect to see on the prop shaft? I was seeing about 45 degrees or more,
which seemed like a lot.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin
Bothell, WA

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:00:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Compression readings

Re: Compression gauge:

First off, did you have the throttle full open when you did the reading?
Frankly, I've never had a bit of luck with the type of gauge that you describe.
I wouldn't worry about it till I get it home.

Re: Quiet engine:

There's got to be something wrong, then.....<grin>.

Seriously, this is not unheard of, provided the valves are adjusted properly and
everything is set up properly. What do the plugs look like? I'd be more
concerend with their condition as an indicator of engine health than that dodgy
compression gauge.

Lastly, I don't remember you mentioning the oil pressure. If that's good then
don't sweat it for the moment.

Re: Rear diff:

45 degrees is not unheard of. If you're getting a full quarter-turn then worry,
but 45 or thereabouts is not horrid. DOn't worry about it till you get it on the
road and see if it clanks or howls.

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From: "Kevin Campbell" <KCampbell@AdRem.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:09:39 -0800
Subject: RE: Compression readings

Alan,

Thanks for the quick reply. With the engine hot at idle oil pressure was
about 30psi, more like 50 with a few revs on it (tacho not working). Plugs
didn't look bad, perhaps just a little sooty (and no I don't mean furry
yellow with a hand up its rear passage).

Kevin

>Lastly, I don't remember you mentioning the oil pressure. If that's good
then
>don't sweat it for the moment.

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From: "Christian Szpilfogel" <chrisz@nortelnetworks.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:29:31 -0500
Subject: re:V8 carbs

Interesting question since I just finished replacing my Zeniths. I was
starting
to have severe problems with the carbs and I finally broke down and replaced
them. The most popular swap seems to be for SUs. I also noticed a write-up
in LRO this  month describing a Zenith to SU conversion. I pulled mine off
of
a Rover P6. Given the urgency at the time (last week) and the fact it is
bloody
cold outside, I had a local British car shop do it. The conversion to the SU
is
straight forward and if you know carbs it is likely a days work to install
and
tune.

I was thinking of other choices including the Holley's but it doesn't look
like
it would be ideal for off-roading (at steep angles it look like you would
get
fuel starved). 

Used SU's are cheap and they work like a charm. Now that I have switched
the car operates incredibly well. I strongly suspect it has never performed
this well in its life. I'ld love to check the power output and I hope my
LT77
holds out ;-)

Cheers,
  -Christian
------------
Christian Szpilfogel, Ottawa, Ont. Canada
1983 LR110 CSW (UK Spec, April Y-reg)
1972 SIII 88" (UK Spec)
1998 Discovery

Malcom writes...
I have a 1983 V8 110 CSW with Zenith carbs. The needles are worn, I seem to
have trouble getting decent diaphragms and have great difficulty in setting
them up correctly. I have been thinking of changing to a Webber but have
heard that they give out on steep slopes. Is this true? Is it worth
changing? If not can anyone tell me how to set my existing carbs up?
Many thanks in advance
Malcolm Woodruff

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:32:17 -0500
Subject: RE: Compression readings

Re: Slighly sooty plugs with 50 PSI hot:

Considering the oil pressure is to be 45-65 hot at 2500 RPM or thereabouts I
think you're OK...8*)

The engine sounds like a sweetheart - should be fine. Odds are it could use
carburettor adjustments and a good tune-up, but i've seen worse...and driven it.

                         ajr

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:50:15 EST
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)

In a message dated 1/22/99 8:48:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
phope@hawaii.rr.com writes:

<< f this is right, then I am probably in real trouble:
 5 fell out (ok jumped) the 2nd story of a barn, no hay stack.
 6 fell out the back end of a pickup
 12 snow sliding accident, had to use my face to stop I was going so fast, 3
 whole days left unaccounted for.
 As far as animal attacks, all I can relocolest is a mob of chickens chasing
 me at age 3 or 4. >>

Then, as you now only have one landie, you apparently are due for many more in
the future.  Way to go!

Zack

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:38:13 -0800
Subject: Re: head injuries (was oxen) (was ball joint)

I was lifting a hammer (16oz claw!) with a rope and it fell on my noggin
when I was about 11.  I was building a tree house by myself.  --I'm lucky I
didn't kill myself out in the woods all alone... mebbe I did.

That's about when I started watching Daktari...

bboT

At 09:34 AM 1/22/99 +0200, you wrote:
>DNDANGER@aol.com wrote:
>> I have to agree on this one I think we have evidence of a causal link

between
>> severe head trauma and later ownership of Land Rover vehicles. (Mine was a
>> concussion caused by contact with the door pillar of a 1956 Chevy during an
>> accident.) Either we all have a screw loose or we just have a craving for a
>> safer vehicle.
>OK, I guess I have to 'fess up, my head has sustained significant trauma
>and battering in it's time. I suppose that explains it all then ... 

...
>> severe head trauma and later ownership of Land Rover vehicles. (Mine was a
Todd Schlemmer
Vashon Is., WA

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:51:08 -0000
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)
	charset="iso-8859-1"

>>>>. The analytical side of me would like to know whether being a
member of the list AND a L-R owner increases my chances of ABB (Assault
By Bovine)?<<<
I've always thought that it was the other way 'round Paul.
Being kicked in the head by a cow (and bitten on the leg by a pig in my =
case) is WHY we own Land Rovers.

I'm sometimes worried about the reasons why the rest of you own =
them.........
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+           
     I !__|  [_]|_\___  
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01BE4598.EA9484E0
	[ Original post was HTML ]
[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: text/html; ]

	[Attachment  removed, was 46 lines.]	

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From: "James G.Wolf" <elvenwood@whro.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:41:17 -0500
Subject: e-mail address change

To those on the list, my new address is

   elvenwood@whro.net

We will be closing the at&t worldnet address soon.

Jim Wolf

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:17:38 EST
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)

In a message dated 1/22/99 3:25:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk writes:

 I've always thought that it was the other way 'round Paul.
 Being kicked in the head by a cow (and bitten on the leg by a pig in my =
 case) is WHY we own Land Rovers.
  >>
And I thought driving Land Rovers was our best chance to survive getting even
with the animal.  They call em bull bars for a reason.  Revenge delayed is
revenge intensified.

Zack Arbios

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:31:30 -0500
Subject: Re: Anti-seize

Tom Rowe wrote:

> For series owners with metal grills used for cooking, they also make
> a food grade that you can use on teh retaining screws. :-)

But it won't make any difference since the zinc from the galvanizing
will poison you anyway.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:45:21 -1000
Subject: Re: oxen (was ball joint)

>Then, as you now only have one landie, you apparently are due for many more
in
>the future.  Way to go!

That's what I was thinking.  Now if I can get SWMBO thinking along the same
lines.
Just ran across a 69 Bugeye 88" at school that is for sale.  Same color as
my 70, softtop, OD and warn winch.  See it almost everyday, really getting
to me to get mine back together.
Aloha
Pete

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From: SFmms@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:56:01 EST
Subject: Re: Bumper Dumper camping accessory

Hi all:

True to my engineering training, I could not help but analyze the design
limitations of the Bumper Dumper TM camping accessory (can be viewed at
http://members.aol.com/bumperdmpr/bumper.htm), and have come up with some
suggestions (Bumper Dumper TM Series II ?): 

1. A pressure activated kill switch on the seat interlocked with the vehicles
ignition so one doesn't inadvertantly drive off with the seat occupied.  

May also be supplimented with an option to prevent the seat from being left up
;)

2. A work/reading lamp accessory.

3. Deluxe screen with an "occupied" sign and detachable rain shield to allow
star gazing.

3. Bumper hanger with a magazine rack.

4. A well vented, special Jerry can for external attachment to the vehicle to
transport out the filled bags from the unit for proper disposal.

Karen Sindir
'74 SIII 88 Red Rufy - WIP (work in progress)
'95 Disco EFE

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:04:48 +0200
Subject: Re: Window seals

dbobeck@ushmm.org wrote:
> the "window/door hole" of defenders and series are the the same size, i.e, the
> doors are interchangeable. the defender door seals will fit but you've got to
> cut the lip off the seal mounting flange. those that have used them have
> reported pleasing results.

Right, I have a 1985 R6 (SA Stage 1) that rolled off of L-R's Blackheath
production line with 110 door rubbers - I haven't pulled them to see if
the lip has been trimmed. It also has rubber mounted windows on either
side of the safari door at the back, the same as 110's, instead of the
series style glazed in with putty jobs.
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: Allan Smith <smitha@candw.lc>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 00:41:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Bumper Dumper camping accessory

At 21:56 22/01/99 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi all:
>True to my engineering training, I could not help but analyze the design
>limitations of the Bumper Dumper TM camping accessory (can be viewed at
>http://members.aol.com/bumperdmpr/bumper.htm), and have come up with some
>suggestions (Bumper Dumper TM Series II ?): 
>1. A pressure activated kill switch on the seat interlocked with the vehicles
>ignition so one doesn't inadvertantly drive off with the seat occupied.  

Thanks for the best response to this one, IMHO
Allan

Allan Smith
Caribbean Natural Resources Institute (CANARI)
Vieux Fort, St. Lucia, West Indies. Tel. + 758 454 6060  Fax. + 758 454 5188

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From: "Bill Fishel" <bfishel@cisnet.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:10:42 -0500
Subject: re: head injuries and rover owners

>> I have to agree on this one I think we have evidence of a causal link

between
>> severe head trauma and later ownership of Land Rover vehicles. (Mine was
a
>> concussion caused by contact with the door pillar of a 1956 Chevy during
an
>> accident.) Either we all have a screw loose or we just have a craving
for a
>> safer vehicle.
>OK, I guess I have to 'fess up, my head has sustained significant trauma
>and battering in it's time. I suppose that explains it all then ... 

This is getting spooky. Broken arm and leg when I slipped off the grape
vines
swinging like Tarzan. Wasn't bad enough hitting the ground from 20 feet
up but I rolled another 25 or 30 feet to the bottom of the ravine. Only
thing I 
remember was waking up in the hospital. This happened in 1974.

Bill Fishel
1974 SIII 88

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From: "Bill Fishel" <bfishel@cisnet.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:21:57 -0500
Subject: re: mods to bumper dumper

*True to my engineering training, I could not help but analyze the design
*limitations of the Bumper Dumper TM camping accessory (can be viewed at
*http://members.aol.com/bumperdmpr/bumper.htm), and have come up with some
*suggestions (Bumper Dumper TM Series II ?): 

*1. A pressure activated kill switch on the seat interlocked with the
vehicles
*ignition so one doesn't inadvertantly drive off with the seat occupied.  

But how are we going to have small children fall off to become the next
generation of LR owners?

Bill

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 07:11:16 +0200
Subject: Re: head injuries and rover owners

Bill Fishel wrote:
> remember was waking up in the hospital. This happened in 1974.
 							   ^^^^
> Bill Fishel
> 1974 SIII 88
  ^^^^

Spooky all right!
 
Regards

Paul Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: "Sona" <franz76@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:37:04 -0500
Subject: HOT FOR 1999 !!!

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From: Dale Smith <smithd@bunt.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:24:32 +0100
Subject: Virtual bartender...

In a message dated 99-01-19 15:02:04 EST, you write:
<< By the way, did we ever name our virtual bar tender? More Guiness
over
 here please...:-)
 Smitty
 >>
How about Paddy O'Furniture

How about Nigel O'Leary....:-)
Smitty

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