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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:26:36 +0000
Subject: MansfieldAutomatiqueTireChains

Morning,
Regarding the Mansfield automatique tire chains (TM)...

I generally do not chastise LR suppliers, so I was doubly heartened 
to hear someone else's disgust of the high prices of Novers Rorth.  I 
just about discontinued my LR 109 2A search when I received their 
catalogue.  BTW, I am still waiting for their savings through NOT 
offering a toll free number to filter down to lower prices for me.  

So ...tell me who gets your business these days?  I have no 
affiliation with any supplier, just curious.  Email direct to me 
if the flames are too hot.   Mark 

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From: "Con P. Seitl" <conseitl@sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:44:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Sliding on mud help ?

David Scheidt wrote:

> Hate to break it you, joesph, but automatic chains do exist.  I saw a bit
> on a teevee news program about whatever city the hotel I was in having
> just bought a bunch of new snowplows.  One of the advanced features they
> had were automatic chains.  It appeared to be a set of chains that spun
> around a pivot inside the rear wheels, and thus under them.  No further
> details available, sorry.
>.
We've had them on our snow-plows here for several years, and our
fire/rescue trucks have them as well. Real neat to use. We put ours into
action every month just to keep them seviceable. We find a nice icy hill
and start up. When the truck begins to have trouble we engage the chains
and it's like driving on a gravel road! BTW, they are called On-Spots.
Activation is a switch on the dash, a ram on the rear axle lowers and
pushes both assy. to make contact with the inside of the rear wheels. As
the wheels turn they spin the carriers with chains attached under the
tires. You do have to moving a bit to make them effective.

Cheers,
Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"
1991 RR "hers"

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:08:25 +0000
Subject: DieselWaxing

I have used various glue/stick-on electrical heaters in a number of 
applications.  One of these could certainly be adapted to the fuel 
tank, plugged in overnight.  But, will sloshing during cold 
weather driving prevent diesel waxing?   Mark

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:06:12 -0400
Subject: Re:follow up to Follow-up for "383" stroker is a series land rover

"d.h.lowe" wrote:

> Thank you for your support John. I will wear it always.:-)  Re. power 
steering rams.
> George Munroe put one on his 88 many years ago and it was great for snow 
plowing but
> nasty on the highway. Too sensitive and you ended up zig zagging down the 
road.
> John Cranfield wrote:
> > Jstsmokeit@aol.com wrote:
> > > OK...more information.
>          [ truncated by lro-lite (was 37 lines)]
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> > This one I am looking into myself.
> > John and Muddy

The system I saw was being driven by a 17 yearold young lady ( ? )  with about 
half
a dozen drunken teens on board so if it was unstable or too sensitive I think 
she would
have been off the road. I imagine some fine tuning of hydraulic pressures and 
swivel
preload would be needed.
John and Muddy

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From: Eric Zipkin <ericzip@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:13:30 -0500
Subject: On-Spot Chains

Just an additional word about on-spot chains:  They work great so long as
you don't have more than about 4 inches of snow, beyond that, they load up
and won't spin under the tires.  Also, they require a bit of work to
install and are another thing to hang up under your vehicle....I would
think more trouble than they're worth since you already have 4x4.  Just my
$.02.

Eric

Eric Zipkin
Bedford, NY  USA 

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From: "Con P. Seitl" <conseitl@sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:08:51 -0400
Subject: Re: follow up to Follow-up for "383" stroker is a series land rover

John Cranfield wrote:

> The system I saw was being driven by a 17 yearold young lady ( ? )  with 
about half
> a dozen drunken teens on board so if it was unstable or too sensitive I think 
she would
> have been off the road.
>.
>From what I saw, she drove it well, considering. Mind you, going down a
really steep icy hill and pulling off a couple 360's at about 20 MPH
could hardly be a test of the steering, just youth. ;->

Con Seitl
1973 III 88 "Pig"
1991 RR "hers"

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:35:02 EST
Subject: Re: choke cable

In a message dated 2/17/99 7:04:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-lro-digest-
ltd@playground.sun.com writes:

<< Only had a few problems, first up, the choke cable was too short, how do I
 attach a longer one? >>

If all else fails, just get a new choke cable assembly at an auto parts store.
The whole deal, from knob to cable's end, should cost about $7 and is really
easy to install in something like an LR.

ALex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:44:55 EST
Subject: Re: dave allen

In a message dated 2/17/99 7:05:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-lro-digest-
ltd@playground.sun.com writes:

<< Ah well.....always something to laugh at so long
 as people buy the Ford Ka (do you get this weird shaped "vehicle" in the
 States? >>
 
No, but we get a fair amount of Ford caca here...
I'm still amazed that someone thought the Reliant Robin was an attractive car.
Was that a motorcycle license issue?
I'm with Mr. Bean - if i ever see any in the States I'll run 'em off the road!

Incidentally~
Anyone remember the Dave Allen skit where he's an explorer type guy
(moustache, pipe, epaulet shirt...) and he's giving his little speech while
propped up against an SIII?
Very brief.

Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:54:44 EST
Subject: Re: Drivers - bad...

I'm thinking Tanzania. All over the place. Even worse than Nairobi, Kenya. But
two particular situations worth noting:

While we were headed into Arusha for a much needed shower, a Series one with
(we had to count fast) 13 people all proping themselves up on the hoop set
remains came barreling at us, swerving all over the place under the ridiculous
load of the bodies. In true Matatu form he had it floored, for what that's
worth in an SI, and just missed slamming into our big-ass Mercedes truck.
We saw this guy many times throughout the day - running up on sidewalks,
driving the WRONG WAY IN A TRAFFIC CIRCLE!!!!, etc.

Similarly, on the way out of the Ngororogoro Crater the guy driving our 110
almost lauched us off of a freshly graded road down a 500 ft. embankment.

If I had wanted to die at the hand of a Land Rover I would have stayed at
home!

Alex Maiolo
Chapel Hill NC

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:06:54 +0000
Subject: To Huub and other NL listers

For Huub and other Netherlands listers,

What is "Gruppo Sportivo" up to these days?

Offline, unless if you can fab some LR content to go with.
Mark

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From: "Huub Pennings" <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:09:34 +0100
Subject: Re: To Huub and other NL listers

I didn't hear from them since the time they stopped producing 
the SIII.................
  
> For Huub and other Netherlands listers,
> What is "Gruppo Sportivo" up to these days?

Regards,

Huub Pennings
(private e-mail to jpennings@worldonline.nl

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:22:13 +0000
Subject: Re: DieselWaxing

  But, will sloshing during cold
>weather driving prevent diesel waxing?   Mark
When I first bought the 88",lorry drivers kept asking me whether
it was mine etc while it was parked on campus.This was thirteen
years ago.Their advice,given spontaheously,was to keep the tank
as full as possible in winter to prevent waxing.As far as I can
tell,it worked.
Cheers
Mike Rooth

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:32:11 +0100
Subject: Chain woes

Many years ago, I bought a set of chains for my 88" when travelling in
Iceland. Sure enough, the day came when we needed them (if for no other
reason than to justify the investment by using the new toy).

What I had not considered was that the 88 was fitted with
thick/wide/tall tyres for this expedition, and that the chains, when
fitted would foul the chassis on the inside and the inside of the wing
on the outside.

These chains were equipped with delicious galvanised barbs to really bit
into the road - just one wheel spin and a bit of unfortunate steering,
and they garbaged my left wing like a can opener going through silver
foil.

Moral of the story - check that the chains fit and don't foul, or stop
trying to get from A to B in weatjher conditions which are stupid...

Ouch!

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
      Visit the "Native Experience" website at 
          http://www.channel6.dk/native
Contact the "Native Experience" film unit in Alaska
          telephone   +1 (907) 230 0359
          e-mail      channel6@alaska.net
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:38:06 -0500
Subject: Engine and tranny lift

>Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk> wrote:

>I hope to pull my engine and gearbox in one piece out of my 109" chassis
>this coming weekend. I klnow that the crane can handle it, but I am
>wondering about the recommended lifting point relative to the COG of the
>assembly. Has anyone tried this with a stock 2.25 and gearbox - where is
>the best place to hook on to centre the lift?

Having pullend and engine and tranny or two, I don't see how you can do
this.  On most non-4wd vehicles, the engine and gearbox can be pulled as a
unit, as the gearbox tapers down from the bellhousing.  But on the Rover,
it gets bigger - t-box and all that.  There's not going to be any room to
pull the gearbox/t-box out between the tranny crossmember and the firewall.
 It might be doable if you have modified the crossmember so it unbolts,
though.  Still, that's a pretty big chunk of iron/aluminium to be swingin'
around....Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:39:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Follow-up for "383" stroker is a series land rover

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, John Cranfield wrote:
.> I saw a neat power steering set-up this weekend where a mid60s steering 
cylinder
 > from a chev had been mounted on the drag link from the steering box to the 
relay.
.> This one I am looking into myself.
 > John and Muddy

more details when you get a chance...

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:40:22 +0100
Subject: Re: Engine and tranny lift

I assure all that the removal of gearbox and engine in one piece is at
least theoretically feasible - I have removed the firewall, so there is
nothing in the way except about 350 Kg of gravity.

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:57:17 EST
Subject: Re: Engine and tranny lift

In a message dated 2/17/99 9:40:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
channel6@post2.tele.dk writes:

>  I have removed the firewall, so there is
>  nothing in the way except about 350 Kg of gravity.

With the firewall gone, just strap it up at the engine lift plates and put a
second strap from the back of the tranny to the lifting harness.  If it is
LHD, the Ebrake cross shaft may be a problem.  

Other than that, lift the whole mess to support the weight, then
lift/pry/cajole the tranny mounts free.  Then lift it out.  Piece of cake.
I've done it 4 or 5 time like this.

Nate

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From: "Huub Pennings" <hps@fs1-kfih.azr.nl>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:08:09 +0100
Subject: Re: Engine and tranny lift

Hello Adrian
> I assure all that the removal of gearbox and engine in one piece is at
> least theoretically feasible - I have removed the firewall, so there is
> nothing in the way except about 350 Kg of gravity.

 
I guess it is feasible, but why would you want to do this?
I  you want to split them, it would easy to do this now and hoist 
them out separately.
Do you have a specific reason for hoisting them out in one peace?   
Regards,

Huub Pennings
(private e-mail to jpennings@worldonline.nl

e-mail adress
Pennings@kfih.azr.nl

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:35:39 -0500
Subject: Chains and such

Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu> wrote:

>Bill, have you not received your flyer yet? Rovers North proudly introduces
>their Mansfield Automatic Tire Chains. You just throw them out the window
>in the direction of the rear wheels. High powered technodoodlegagdetry(TM)
>from high in the hills of Vermont causes them to neatly wrap around the
>spinning tires and self-clasp. 

Good one...BTDT, sort of.  Years ago (on my last pre-rover road trip) we
were heading to Pittsburgh for my college roomate's wedding.  An early
snowfall caught the populace and local road crews totally by surprise...
all the hills iced up and *no one* was making it up.  At the bottom of this
one particularly long hill, we bought two bags of kitty litter.  With guys
hanging out the rear windows throwing the stuff under the rear wheels like
a sand dispenser on a locomotive, we made it half way up.  Slid back to the
bottom.  Bought *four* bags and had another go.  Made it within 10 feet of
the crest before we ran out.  It was too slick to try to push.

It was here that I "discovered" third world tire chains: roadside brush
thrust under the spinning wheels for traction.  From then on, we didn't
need kitty litter. Just whatever roadside vegetation we could, <ahem>
acquire...some of which, no doubt, was *landscaping*. Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:06:15 +0200
Subject: Re: Sporty diesel

> Now,now,young Andrew....I seem to remember yours cruised at 55mph
> down the motorway....*grossly* overloaded,too.Or were the claims
> just a *little* bit OTT? :-)

It did have an overdrive....  and there were nice big trucks to 
slipstream... (before they limited them all to forty something mph; 
what a crime?)

However, I seem to remember using 4th low up that hill after the 
J23 on-ramp.

As for *grossly* ~ we had heavy duty springs and anyone knows 
you can put 4 tons in a Land Rover with those fitted.  Shame about 
the "power assisted" brakes which didn't work so well with the flap 
from hell removed.

BTW had just under a ton in the back of Rangie a few weeks ago 
and it seems to cope OK...

All the best,

Andy

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:26:55 +0000
Subject: Re: DieselWaxing

Mike, 
Thanks for the tip.  BTW, I enjoy your humor which I 
stumbled across somewhere on this net (probably OVLR site).  
Any new yarns to share?  

You run an 88?  I am still holding out for a 2A 109.  There
is one out there with my name on it ...just gotta' find her.  
Mark

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From: "Monika & Steve Rochna" <mns@oasisol.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:36:09 -0800
Subject: re: Weber Carb
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Neil:

Was that the one or two bbl Weber?

Steve

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From: M.J.Rooth@lboro.ac.uk (Mike Rooth)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:43:08 +0000
Subject: Re: Sporty diesel

>However, I seem to remember using 4th low up that hill after the
>J23 on-ramp.
Ah...*now* it comes out...:-)

>As for *grossly* ~ we had heavy duty springs and anyone knows
>you can put 4 tons in a Land Rover with those fitted.

Yes,but not on the roof.Its the first time I've ever seen
a Land Rover at the point of rolling over just turning out
of the car park.

Cheers
Mike

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:03:11 +0000
Subject: Importing from Canada to US 

Can someone give me details on what to expect if I buy a mid 60's 109 
2A from Canada and drive it to my home in the US ...regarding taxes, 
duties, tolls, etc....  

Do I use my own license plates (and which car do I "borrow" it from)? 
Mark

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:59:18 -0800
Subject: Re:Was World worst drivers Now The Lowe down on driving

Well Folks I would like to point out that the words "Brett Storey" contains
the letters to be rearranged into "Better Story"

I would suggest that this matter be settled on the field of honour at the
upcoming OVLR birthday party (June 18-20)

Hmmm...smear the 2 contestants with 90wt and turn em loose to wrestle in a
mud pit?

Duel with drawn half shafts?  Long shaft as the broad sword, and the short
side as a dagger?

Axle toss a la caber(sp? you know, that telephone pole toss thing the Scots
do)

John

From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
>"d.h.lowe" wrote:
>> Liar, liar pants on fire. DIXON where are you .You know the truth, tell
them 
>,tell
>> them. BEN save me,save me from this scurrilous attack. Omitted from that
tale 
>was
>OK I believe it happened but just which version is correct I'm not sure .
Is it a
>coincidence that Bretts last name is Storey. Hmmm
>John and Muddy

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From: "Michael E. Johnson" <johnsonm@borg.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:08:19 -0500
Subject: RE: Importing from Canada to US 

Here is what I can tell you about my experience in Jan.
  I had to pay 10% of the sale value, I also had a hand written receipt.
The price listed was $1000,  when asked if that was US or Canadian I said
"Yes" and he wrote it down as Canadian (i.e. $650 US) so my tax/tariff/fee
was $65 US.

As for plates,  I don't know as I was not fortunate enough to buy a runner
and had to trailer mine in.

Michael E Johnson
67 109 SW (Reptar)
74 88 SW (Chester)
96 Disco SD (Travolta)

Mark Wrote:
Can someone give me details on what to expect if I buy a mid 60's 109
2A from Canada and drive it to my home in the US ...regarding taxes,
duties, tolls, etc....

Do I use my own license plates (and which car do I "borrow" it from)?
Mark

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From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@offroading.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:25:18 -0000
Subject: Re: Weber Carb

>Neil:
>Was that the one or two bbl Weber?
>Steve

Er.....the difference being? It looked a bit smaller than the Zenith? It was
given to me...so I don't know! Sorry!

Neil

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:31:26 -0500
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

>I've been looking at a nice 88" to buy,
>but its RHD and I'd need to convert to LHD.
>Anybody converted RHD to LHD?
>What parts can be reused and what needs to be
>replaced?

Why do you need to convert?  Mine is RHD and I like it just fine.
There is more room on the right.  Your brain will compensate nicely.
When I drive LHD, I don't even notice.  The conversion can be done, but
I say - why bother?!  It might be more trouble than it is worth.

Cheers - Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:45:18 EST
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

In a message dated 2/17/99 11:33:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pmk11@cornell.edu writes:

> Why do you need to convert?  Mine is RHD and I like it just fine.
>  There is more room on the right.  Your brain will compensate nicely.
>  When I drive LHD, I don't even notice.  The conversion can be done, but
>  I say - why bother?!  It might be more trouble than it is worth.

I agree.  Besides the hassle, I think the RHD setup is slightly easier to work
on.  Brake and Clutch MC, Dizzy and steering box on one side, carb, starter,
alternator and exhaust on the other.  With LHD, everything but the dizzy gets
jammed over on the left.

Nate

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From: Vel Natarajan <vel@enteract.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:11:00 -0600
Subject: Re: Importing from Canada to US

On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:08:19AM -0500, Michael E. Johnson wrote:
> Here is what I can tell you about my experience in Jan.
>   I had to pay 10% of the sale value, I also had a hand written receipt.
> The price listed was $1000,  when asked if that was US or Canadian I said
> "Yes" and he wrote it down as Canadian (i.e. $650 US) so my tax/tariff/fee
> was $65 US.
> As for plates,  I don't know as I was not fortunate enough to buy a runner
> and had to trailer mine in.

You are allowed to have the foreign plates on there for a fixed amount
of time (1 month or 3, I forget).  As long as you have the original
country's paperwork.  I drove my UK registered Landy from Newark thru
PA, and NY to Buffalo w/ no problems.  I had state troopers pass me
w/o batting an eye.

Your best bet is to contact Customs in Wash, DC and get all the relevant
paperwork.  (Or sometimes if you live near an "international port" such
as an airport, the customs office there might have the info you need.

Rgds,
Vel

> Can someone give me details on what to expect if I buy a mid 60's 109
> 2A from Canada and drive it to my home in the US ...regarding taxes,
> duties, tolls, etc....
> Do I use my own license plates (and which car do I "borrow" it from)?
> Mark
> As for plates,  I don't know as I was not fortunate enough to buy a runner

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From: Vel Natarajan <vel@enteract.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:13:49 -0600
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

On Wed, Feb 17, 1999 at 11:45:18AM -0500, NADdMD@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 2/17/99 11:33:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> pmk11@cornell.edu writes:
> > Why do you need to convert?  Mine is RHD and I like it just fine.
> >  There is more room on the right.  Your brain will compensate nicely.
> >  When I drive LHD, I don't even notice.  The conversion can be done, but
> >  I say - why bother?!  It might be more trouble than it is worth.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 15 lines)]
> jammed over on the left.
> Nate

I agree.  I have no problems with my RHD rover here in the US.  It's
not like you're going to try and PASS someone on a 2 lane road in an
LR!

Though, seriously, I think that the one time it becomes somewhat of a
pain is when you're making a left turn in an intersection and you
can't see around the cars facing you.

Rgds,
Vel Natarajan

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 09:37:33 -0800
Subject: Re: "383" stroker is a series land rover

The project the original poster described seems 
like a huge undertaking for questionable gains, 
unless it's the doing of the project that's the goal.  
But if the object is simply to improve the Land Rover's 
performance, this seems like a very convoluted way 
to go about it.  A Land Rover is a Land Rover because 
of a lot of characteristics, not just its appearance.  It's 
basically a 1940's farm vehicle, and as such low power, 
useful gearing, and simple construction are the attributes 
of its design, not detriments.  By today's standards it is an 
antique, but that doesn't mean the design is bad, just old.

There's a lot that goes into a vehicle's design: I wonder 
what putting gobs of available power and traction on a 
very short wheelbase frame will do to the handling, for 
instance?

Or what effect will the increased weight of the drivetrain 
components and increased twisting forces have on the 
welded up box frame?  That particular frame construction 
was selected originally because it was easy and cheap to 
make, not because it is the strongest way to make a frame.  
Many people don't realize this, but the original Land Rover 
was intended as a stopgap vehicle only: Rover had planned
to produce it for two or three years at the most, discontinuing it 
it 1950 or '51.  As such, it was designed simple and designed 
cheap.  We all sing the praises of the Land Rover's sturdy box 
frame, but actually it's a lousy design in terms of strength and 
longevity.  The only reason it works so well is that the vehicle 
that sits on top of it is relatively light, and the torque forces 
being applied to it are relatively low.  But the frame's integrity 
is dependent solely on the welds, which is not a great idea 
unless the vehicle is fairly low-powered.

The end result of this project certainly won't be a Land Rover in 
most people's eyes, the same as a Jaguar E-type with an 
American V-8 in place of the XK engine isn't a Jaguar.  A 
re-engined Jaguar or Land Rover may be more reliable than 
the original, and it may have more power, but an engine, no 
matter how old, inefficient, or trouble-prone it may be, is 
a major part of what constitutes every vehicle.  This is evidenced 
by the prices of collectible cars.  An original E-type Jaguar in 
average or even "needs work" condition brings a much higher 
price than an E-type in physically better condition but with a 
more modern V-8 instead of the XK engine, even though the 
XK engine can be a royal pain in the ass to deal with.

I certainly have no opposition to someone extensively 
modifying a vehicle as long as they realize that the end 
result will not, in this case, be an "improved" Land Rover 
but will simply be a home-made vehicle with some Land 
Rover parts on it.  It will certainly have no value as a Land 
Rover, because it won't be one anymore.  I daresay the 
original Series III that is at the heart of this conversion will be 
worth more prior to the project than after it, even if it barely 
runs with its original powertrain.  While there are a lot of 
Series Land Rovers around, their numbers are finite.  Given 
the increasing interest in the stock vehicles, their value is going 
up.  Extensively modifying a Series Land Rover in the manner 
being proposed will do two things: it will reduce the number 
of Series Land Rovers in existence by one, as the cost of 
returning the vehicle to its more valuable stock condition 
will be prohibitive, and it will severely limit the resale potential 
of the vehicle for the owner, unless he happens to find someone 
with a real desire for a machine with the capabilities this one may 
have.

The technical problems of doing the conversion can all be 
overcome: it's simply a matter of money. You could mount a 
450 horsepower Pratt & Whitney radial engine in a Land Rover 
if you were willing to spend the money necessary to do it.  The 
real question is if the project is worth the money (the cost of the 
conversion plus the loss of value of the original vehicle), and 
that's something only the owner can answer.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:36:42 +0100
Subject: SUCCESS! Engine and tranny lift

The lift worked like a treat, the entire engine and gearbox lifted out
on one piece without any problem. A single pick-up point at the rear of
the engine block (the front pick up point was "missing" - the assembly
was a tad front heavy, but no problem. Now it can be washed and painted
and ready to re-fit when the frame is done.

What a wonderful thing these workshop cranes are!

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:43:57 +0100
Subject: Extracting the steering relay

I am well on the way to a complete strip of my 109" frame, and having
delivered the new firewall and a few other iron bits to the metallising
shop today, I am severely tempted to have the chassis professionally
sandblasted and zinc-metalised - then maybe I will be spared the "fun"
of scraping paint,crud and rust every two or four years (after all, one
day I'm going to be too old for all this fun, so a fráme which would
last would be OK)

When all is stripped off the chassis, the only remaining bits will be
the suspension bushes (of which I have heard several removal recipes)
and the steering relay (of which i have heard many tales of woe).

So list! What is the preferred safe and effective no-bloody-knuckles
method of removing the relay without getting it fired upwards into my
teeth? And what is the preferred method of reinstallation?

And what - if anything - should I do with the relay when its out?
(Maintenance wise?)

Cheers

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:41:17 -1000
Subject: Re: aeroparts winch manual

Ya know I have always wondered about that.  I guess my email program uses my
system uses my computers date or something Cuss Bills email is dated 1999.
just curious

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:45:49 -1000
Subject: Re: Land~Rover hose job.

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:46:58 -1000
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

>I've been looking at a nice 88" to buy, but its RHD and I'd need to convert
to
>LHD.
Just curious... why do you need to convert it?
Pete

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:59:07 EST
Subject: Re: Extracting the steering relay

In a message dated 2/17/99 12:44:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
channel6@post2.tele.dk writes:

> So list! What is the preferred safe and effective no-bloody-knuckles
>  method of removing the relay without getting it fired upwards into my
>  teeth? And what is the preferred method of reinstallation?

I think the 2 options here would be:

1.  Carefully remove its guts (ala AJ Richer)
2.  Take the whole shebang to a shop with a herking big press and press it
out.

IMHO, to bash the holy-livin' kah-kah out of it to get it out seems like a
recipe for welding in a new front crossmember.

Nate

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 13:16:49 +0000
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

Nate,
What is a "dizzy"?
Mark

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:09:34 -1000
Subject: Horror Story: was:Extracting the steering relay

>So list! What is the preferred safe and effective no-bloody-knuckles
>method of removing the relay without getting it fired upwards into my
>teeth

Well I was finally able to get my relay out.  How some may ask.  Well, I
took apart my 20ton shop press and placed the frame in it (totally stripped
of course) upside down and rebuilt the press.  Was a true mother, but I had
run out of options.  After she was in the press I had a sleeve just right to
so I was pressing against the body of the relay, not the shaft.  Anyway she
slowly came out.  I do not have a gauge but I was really cranking on the
handle for the first 1/2 inch or so.

Pete

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:35:31 -0800
Subject: Wiper breaks down at a most opportune time

So I had a surprise house guest last night.  She's French Canadian with at
slight southern British accent, 26, recently moved here from the Island of
Jersey in the Channel.  Picture a young Adrian Barbeau...  :-)   I'm driving
her to the ferry this morning in the rain, when all-of-a-sudden,
Whirrrrr-grind-grind -- no drivers side wiper.  (the passenger side one's
not even wired in yet...)   'Ohhh, la, la' she exclaims and immediately
slides over to next to me and starts manually operating  the wiper.  (minds
out of the gutter, guys.)  Glad I never installed the Tuffy Box in place of
the center seat!  

Guess it's time to re-build the wipers again...

What a beautiful day :-)

Paul in Victoria.
1961 SII 88.

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:21:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: 383 Stroke Job

C. Marin Faure comments:

*** 
I daresay the original Series III that is at the heart of this
conversion will be worth more prior to the project than after it, even if
it barely runs with its original powertrain.
***

Along with lots of other appropriate but tempered comments.

BUT, if I read the original post correctly, this guy intends to
do this TO a SI.  Sacrilige.  Especially considering he could make
the body panels himself, which appears to be just about all that'd
be left of the original rig.

r"there ought to be a law"d/nige

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:19:39 EST
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

In a message dated 2/17/99 1:11:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
alice@atd.crane.navy.mil writes:

> What is a "dizzy"?

Distributor.  Dizzy is just easier to type.

N

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:39:33 +0000
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

Nate,
I kinda' figured after sending my message your way 
...but then recently there was a pop tune "Dizzy Up The Girl"
	...and I still do not know what that means.

Life is more and more a code that I do not speak
Mark

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:39:38 -0500
Subject: Re: "383" stroker is a series land rover

Martin adds:

You could mount a
450 horsepower Pratt & Whitney radial engine in a Land Rover
if you were willing to spend the money necessary to do it.

Yes, but what do you use the DeHaviland Beaver for that you stole it off? Spare
aluminum?

               aj"That i would pay money to see....."r

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:50:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Extracting the steering relay

A very large hydraulic press might be the trick, considering you're basically at
the point where you could stand the press over the frame section and shove the
damned thing out.

Had you waited to pull the engine I would have suggested a tube drift and a jack
from below - but now it doesn't weigh enough for that to work too effectively.

Pull the lower collar, pull the top two bolts, and you might get lucky and have
it tap/pull out - but don't count on it.

Re: Rebuild:

Might be cheaper just to replace it - the shafts wear and sealing isn't
something they do well after that.

                         ajr

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 15:28:42 -0500
Subject: Posh diesel, was Sporty diesel...

And there's Ginger diesel and that wild Scary diesel....when they're all 
together they're the Spice Diesels.
Diesel Power!!! Diesel up your life!! DieselWorld...the movie!!!

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator...Softimage/Hal
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 14:29:24 -0500
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

>> What is a "dizzy"?
>Distributor.  Dizzy is just easier to type.
>Nate

You expect coherent English from a doctor? 8*)

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:39:37 +0100
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

How about coherent Latin?

The way I heard it - not one of Nate's patients have ever survived...
(unless you count reincarnation that is)

Guess there aren't many openings in private practice for a pathologist?

:-)
 
Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:42:08 +0100
Subject: Extracting the steering relay part 2

Thanks for the replies regarding the HOW of getting the relay out - but
haven't I read/heard/seen something about the relay being a spring
loaded death trap waiting to de-jaw the unwary mechanic?

Or is this just an urban legend?

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: "Jeff and Chris Jackson" <jcjcj88@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:08:23 -0800
Subject: re:Pulling the engine and gearbox

Adrian:  When I did this, the attachment point at the front of the engine
(by the thermostat housing) and a sling just aft of the clutch/flywheel
housing worked very well.

Jeff J.

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:09:23 -0000
Subject: Re: Re:Was World worst drivers Now The Lowe down on driving

> Liar, liar pants on fire. DIXON where are you .You know the truth, tell

them ,tell
> them. BEN save me,save me from this scurrilous attack. Omitted from that
tale was
[ truncated by lro-lite (was 18 lines)]
> > was just a friendly tap and the only damage was a crack reflector.
> > Needless to say, I'm scared to drive around with Dave anymore ;-

Rob Smith, you getting this? We're mere beginners my friend,
it's better than "Neighbours".......

Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: "Frank Elson" <frankelson@felson.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:15:07 -0000
Subject: Re: Follow-up for "383" stroker is a series land rover

>>>>>but it will be a hell of a
good off-roader, and I will be able to spin the wheel from a stand still
>>>>>but it will be a hell of a

what a VERY good idea. You should get a VERY long way off road with all four
wheels spinning.

Do you know what the UK expression "Prat" means?
Best Cheers

Frank
    +--+--+--+
     I !__|  [_]|_\___
     I ____|"_|"__|_ | /     B791 PKV
     "(o)======(o)"    Bronze Green 110 CSW

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:18:36 +0100
Subject: Re: Safety

I would agree wholeheartedly with the suggestions regarding compulsory
periodic driving tests.

I have driven for 23 years, and recently had to take a US driving test
because I'm working in Alaska - where a UK license is recognised but
costs a fortune to insure. I was surprised by how difficult even the
relativly simple Alaska test is. Taking into account that I was taking a
test in another country (I originally took my test in the UK and have
lived in denmark for 15 years) I was still surprised about how rusty I
had become on simple things.

The logic is simple. If the test means anything, it must be a measure of
one's ability to drive and behave according to a certain predefined
standard. If it was difficult for me after 23 years experience, then it
may also be difficult for anyone else who passed their test say over 5
years ago. Now that is the majority of drivers. If they have trouble
passing the test after a number of years, that is an indication that a
regular brush-up wouldn't hurt motoring safety one bit. So regular
retesting would keep us on our toes, weed out those who have become too
complacent, and heighten the general awareness of motoring safety.

Considering the number of new laws, inspections and taxes which are
introduced all over europe to promote road and traffic safety,
environmental standards, and better motoring, it seems illogical that
100% of the legislative and technological initiative is being directed
at the vehicle, whilst almost zilch is being directed at the driver. Ask
any insurance assesor or traffic policeman - most accidents are caused
by "human error" rather than bad maintenance or bad design. The aviation
industry is also testament to this phenomena, despite stringent
mechanical inspection, repairs and regular testing of the pilots, most
accidents are finally attributed to pilot error. The human element - I
would suggest - is grossly underestimated.

I guess its a matter of politics - who's going to vote for a politician
who suggests a law which might mean that a large percentage of the
population could lose their license - and thus their social mobility and
freedom? And how much would people be prepared to pay for such a
"service" - pretty little I'd guess. Much easier to tax fuel
consumption, cubic capacity, and luxuries like 4WD (Denmark 180%
surcharge duty).

Sad state of affairs if you ask me.

Adrian Redmond

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:02:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Safety

Adrian writes:

*** 
The logic is simple. If the test means anything, it must be a measure
of one's ability to drive and behave according to a certain predefined
standard.
***

Key word: "If".

I took my first drivers test in a '67 88 with a soft top, no side windows
and a well faded rear window.  I did 95% of the test flawlessly.  In NY,
you have to parallel park...the guy giving the test (one of these three
toothed malcontents with a grudge against skinny little white guys with
ponytails) had me park the Rover in a real tight spot beside a phone
pole.  I pull up, pause, catch reverse sans grinding, and with no more
to see through but the small gap where the canvas didn't quite meet the
bed I did a near perfect park.  Near perfect, that is.  Juuuust ever so
slightly rubbed the sidewall against the curb.  Just.

Bastard failed me for "dangerous action: over curbed parking".  Same
arse gave the test the same week to my girlfriend (who was 16 goin' on
26 at the time).  Did she parallel park?  No.  In fact, he had her drive
him all around town for twenty minutes, and *his* eyes were definately
NOT on the road the whole time...she felt she'd been raped but passed
the test nonetheless. (Oh yeah, she was a really really bad driver but
made up for it!)

SO, point is, the person giving the test is the one who decides if you
pass or not.  Human error enters into this equation, too, as does 
personal bias.  I imagine lots of us LR owners might get the short 
end of stick here (especially if we show up in LRs).

rd/nige

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From: Keith Cutler <keith_cutler@csgsystems.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 16:26:54 -0700
Subject: Carburettors, headers and flywheel thickness

If you could put any carburetor and intake manifold on your 2.25 petrol engine 
(Turner, if it
matters), what would you choose?  I've seen opinions on every make and option 
imaginable.  I'm
looking for reliable starting and driving, then power, then fuel mileage.  I 
live in Colorado, at
altitude, with all four seasons present and accounted for.

What would you do for an exhaust system?  Standard manifold or header?  I've 
lived with headers on
American V8s and put up with some fairly common problems (blown exhaust 
manifold gaskets, always
loose exhaust manifold bolts, noise) but have also enjoyed the increased power 
a modified exhaust
system can provide.

What about the exhaust manifold to intake manifold heating provided by the 
stock system?  Important
consideration?  Aside from the usual Weber, Solex, Zenith, Rochester, Weber 
2-barrel with Pearce
manifold, and many other options, I've heard that a good solution is the 
genuine 2.5 liter Land
Rover 2-barrel setup that I should be able to find in the UK.  It'll work with 
the stock exhaust
manifold and not have some of the driveability problems the Weber 2-barrel is 
rumored to have.

Lastly, do you know what the minimum allowable flywheel thickness is?  The 
Haynes Service and Repair
manual differs from the Land Rover (Green Bible) manual.  After resurfacing, my 
flywheel is 1.42"
thick which is about 0.06" too thin according to the Haynes.

Thanks for you thoughts.
Keith Cutler
1960 SWB SII

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From: Jstsmokeit@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:33:22 EST
Subject: Second 383 stroker follow-up

I have read the comments, and I realize that most of you are not in favor of
my project.  I am 16 years old and have been interested in Land Rovers for the
past few years.  I have read a few books on them and thought to buy one
rebuilt on the market.  All of the rebuilds are astronomical and it is
skeptical that most are any good.  I read the boards, I listen to people, Land
Rover mechanics are shoddy compared to all currently produced car-related
items.  I have the summer off and a guy from my karate class has tons of free
time this summer and is willing to assist/oversee my project.  This is my last
summer off before my summer prior to college and pretty much a relatively
leisurely.  I am just your average teen-ager willing to learn and capable of
picking up traits quickly.  

I didn't mean to provoke a few of you, as has been shown by your causticity,
my expressed motive is singular; I plan to take a piece of history,
"dismantle" it and rebuild and replace every part that I choose.  It's OK if
some of my undertakings will involve difficult procedures, but that I fathom
is the fun of the entire ordeal.  I am sure that each one of you has built
some recent mechanics into your rovers, so what if I simply improve my
vehicle, raising it to a new standard?  Why put in an electronic ignition and
not power steering?  Why put on auxiliary lights and not a winch?  Why put
seat belts and not a roll cage?  Why not make a vehicle with as many
advancements as possible to ensure safety and enjoyment of the drive?
Although I have not expressed it, I am a busy kid, and what I don't want is a
vehicle that works half of the time, the other half of the time being time to
fix it.  I plan on doing this project right, once and then have to maintain
mildly more than a contemporary SUV: is that so intolerable to allow?

Also many of you have said that the vehicle will be worth more before as it
would after "restoration."  Who are you to say this.  Unless you are oblivious
to the market for land rovers, a very limited part of the population gets as
much for a vehicle as they put into it.  If I wanted to make a profit, Land
Rovers are definitely not a trade for the entrepreneur.  I dare say, the only
people making any money off of land rovers are those raping the uneducated or
those that simply supply the community that strives to maintain their vehicle
using the most original parts.   

As a teenager, I want something that is reliable and that will be able to
handle itself and out drive the testosterone-driven jeeps.  Although all of
you purist are most likely oppugnant{( that was for Frank Elson who
gesticulated his sardonicism by saying "what a VERY good idea. You should get
a VERY long way off road with all four wheels spinning.   Do you know what the
UK expression "Prat" means?")  Hey Frank do you want me to give you a word
test...I am sure that my precocious self can more than compete in your
intelligence class...} to my every action, I have little desire to say that my
vehicle looks just as good as when it came off of the production line, I would
rather say that I have improved my vehicle via technology that arises with
fifty years of mechanical improvement.  Yes, I could just get a Jeep or
something or even a Freelander (well not a Freelander, I would rather slit my
wrists), but there isn't the same beauty.  The beauty on the outside that is
irreplaceable.  In my opinion Solihull produces the finest-looking vehicles on
the planet, but lets face it, mechanics could be improved.  An alternator blew
out on my family's Range Rover Classic, so, what did we do? Well, we went and
had another one put it, and then another and then another and then another and
so on, until four brand new alternators were installed within four months.
What can you attest this to?

Maybe replacing thirty or forty year old parts with brand new ones is not the
thing to do if you are trying to preserve the vehicle which was a breakthrough
for its time period.  If some of you chaps have not realized, Land Rovers were
advanced, but a lot has been done since the 1948 Amsterdam Motor Show, when
the Series I debuted.  Also it is no secret among the educated that the
original 80" series I was built by a few Englishmen who used a Willys Jeep's
chassis and axles.  Basically those who are set on opposition and who are
angered by the reminder of their 2.25 liter four-cylinder petrol engines will
remain offensive, but I think that a few of you enthusiasts out there
recognize my motive and realize the rational behind it.  If a Chevy engine
allows a Jaguar to remain out of service for a while, is that OK? Well,
personally I cannot remember the last time somebody cared about what was under
the hood, I live in a suburb with possibly 5-10 series land rovers among
35,000 people and the only thing that I am expecting and aspiring to construct
is a vehicle that can be dependable safe on any highway and extraordinary off
road.  The power might be a bit excessive, but that's just who I am.
Thanks for reading,
Brent J. Markus

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:50:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Carburettors, headers and flywheel thickness

Keith Cutler wrote:

=   I live in Colorado, 
 Where at, just out of curiosity?

= What would you do for an exhaust system?  Standard manifold or
header?  I've lived with headers on
= American V8s and put up with some fairly common problems (blown
exhaust manifold gaskets, always
= loose exhaust manifold bolts, noise) but have also enjoyed the
increased power a modified exhaust
= system can provide.
 I have a header on my 88, and have had no problems with leaks since I
put in the graphite looking gasket on the collector flange.

= What about the exhaust manifold to intake manifold heating provided by
the stock system?
 Haven't noticed any difference, and I live in Evergreen, Co.
= Lastly, do you know what the minimum allowable flywheel thickness is? 
The Haynes Service and Repair
= manual differs from the Land Rover (Green Bible) manual.  After
resurfacing, my flywheel is 1.42"
= thick which is about 0.06" too thin according to the Haynes.
 I have the workshop manual which isn't the same as the green bible. It
says min. thickness is 1.485". 

Jim Hall
Elephant Chaser 1966 88" truck cab
http://www.users.uswest.net/~jimfoo/

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From: Ana Petrova <petrova@loop.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:34:19 -0700
Subject: Importing a Defender 90 to California

I am looking to import a 1989 Defender 90 Military Diesel 2.5 lt. from
England to California.
Would like to know if anybody has done this?
What should I look for any advice?
Shipping company?
Any regulations I should be aware of?
Where can I find out more?

Much appreciate any help.

Thanks,
Ana Petrova
petrova@loop.com

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 17:44:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Importing a Defender 90 to California

I an sell you one from Vancouver if you can find a way to get it thru
customs! Ray

----------

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[spamkill: \.wcom\. input: %s]	 Received: from mail 
(hil-c45-013-vty153.as.wcom.net [206.175.204.153]) by ns.upce.cz with SMTP id 
CAA28435

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 20:49:31 EST
Subject: Beat on the Brat--was 383 Stroker

Brent,
Howdy again.  Some friendly advice for you:

Watch yourself.  Yes, there are some on the list who don't approve of your
desire to modify so heavily a classic truck.  Can you blame them?  There's no
point getting riled up just because many of those who have the passion and
dedication to own a 30-50 year old truck are purists.  Many of us on the list,
however, are not, and there's no need to start right off on the list flaming
those who disagree with you, some of whom have owned their Land Rovers more
than twice as long as you've been alive--some attachment's understandable, no?

Especially didn't appreciate your shot at Frank, who is not at all opposed to
modifying a Rover.  Allow me to point out some of  the grammar mistakes your
precocious self made in your e-mail: 
 " . . .rebuilds are astronomical  and it's skeptical that most are any good."
" . . .currently produced . . ." (should be hyphenated)
" . . .capable of picking up traits quickly . . . (??)"
". . . is that so intolerable to allow?"
"Who are you to say this."
"  . . .recognize my rational for this . . ."--RATIONALE

OK, there are others--including too many run-on sentences to count.  My point
is, men who live in glass houses should not write e-mails trying to showcase
their vocabulary.  Something like that.  

Anyway, where do you get off?  You really need to take a few deep breaths,
apologize to the many purists on the list, back off a bit, and ask you
questions politely--show some respect for your elders, especially in a pursuit
like this, about which you make it painfully clear that you know very little.

I enjoyed reading your first few messages in the thread and their responses.
I've got a Pontiac engine in my 109--originality be blowed--but I understand
those who see what I've done as a sin and I certainly don't fire off letters
calling them stupid.

If you continue in this vein, I hope you enjoy the lonely little world in Land
Rover land you'll carve out for yourself.

Bill Rice
64 SIIa 109SW
Columbus, GA 

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From: Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 18:37:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Importing a Defender 90 to California

At 05:34 PM 2/17/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I am looking to import a 1989 Defender 90 Military Diesel 2.5 lt.
>from England to California.
>Would like to know if anybody has done this?
>What should I look for any advice?
>Shipping company?
>Any regulations I should be aware of?
>Where can I find out more?
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
>Ana Petrova
>petrova@loop.com

 Not legally possible to import this vehicle to the US.  Don't
 believe me?  Contact the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT),
 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the U.S.
 Custom's Service.

-Michael

 

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:44:32 -0500
Subject: Re: Importing a Defender 90 to California

Ana Petrova wrote:

> I am looking to import a 1989 Defender 90 Military Diesel 2.5 lt. from
> England to California.

Basically you can't do it legally. To import a vehicle into the US less
than 25 years old it has to be certified as meeting emission and safety
regs. Either the manufacturer has to certify it, or one of the few and
expensive certified importers has to modify it, test it and certify it.
An '89 90 Military Diesel won't meet US safety requirements and the
diesel wouldn't meet emission regs without modifications.

There has been some discussion in the past of sucessfully importing
ex-military vehicles on customs paperwork as de-mobbed military
equipment rather than as vehicles. I wonder if the vehicle is really
legal, or this is a demonstration of a loophole in customs proceedures
since there are no exemptions for ex-military vehicles in the federal
regs.

There are other ways to import a newer vehicle, you just need to make
sure you avoid conversations with customs about what you're up to. Note
that the above is for getting the vehicle into the US, registering it in
a particular state such as CA is another story.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:01:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Second 383 stroker follow-up

Brent,

I'm not sure you comprehend the magnitude of the project you're
proposing. It isn't going to be a matter of getting a number of
catalogs, order parts, and then bolting them in. That may be possible
for putting a Chevy V8 in a Jeep but there is not the supplier base for
modified LRs. Your proposed LR project will require replacing the entire
powertrain, drivetrain and chassis components, major modifications to
the frame, and major mods to the body. A lot of custom fabrication will
be required, as well as lot of basic engineering. You can probably
figure on a minimum of 1000 hours of work just to get it assembled,
painted and movable under it's own power. That's assuming you have the
skills and equipment for the design and fabrication as well as assembly

Once you have the vehicle running you will need to do "development",
which is basically testing, then modifications, then testing, then more
modifications, etc. It is very difficult to get a vehicle assembled from
assorted components to be reliable. You'll be using components
differently than they were designed to be used.

Modifying a jeep would be much more realistic given the supplier base,
and the number of folks who have made all the mistakes before you.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: Rick Debold <rdebold@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:05:27 -0800
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

I don't really have a problem w/ the RHD, I lived in Singapore for a while and
had a car over there and got along fine.  The only problem there was which side
of the road to use.  Its more my fear of what might happen when my girl friend
drives it.  I can just imagine the car returning with the whole left hand side
swiped.  I was thinking I'd leave it RHD until I could collect all of the parts
and about the time when she really wants to drive it I'd be ready to change it
over.  She manages to find every curb with in striking distance when she drives
the Disco, and I'm afraid of what might happen in a RHD.

/Rick

> Why do you need to convert?  Mine is RHD and I like it just fine.

--

Rick Debold                      |=======|C
rdebold@ix.netcom.com  _______   |__|__|__\__
'96 Discovery          |_/ \_|===!_--____--__|}
                   ______(O)_______(O)___(O)______________

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From: Niall Duncan Forbes <nforbes@is2.dal.ca>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:32:44 -0400 (AST)
Subject: Re: Second 383 stroker follow-up

On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 Jstsmokeit@aol.com wrote:
> I have read the comments, and I realize that most of you are not in favor of
> my project....what I don't want is a vehicle that works half of the
> time, the other half of the time being time to fix it.  I plan on doing
> this project right, once and then have to maintain mildly more than a
> contemporary SUV: 
> As a teenager, I want something that is reliable and that will be able to
> handle itself 
> Thanks for reading,

I think most people who responded, regardless of their oppinion on whether
or not you should proceed, had two main points:
1. With all the modifications you plan, the only thing left of the truck
 is goung to be the body. An aluminum skin does not make a Land Rover. You
 could save money by looking for just a body instead of buying an entire
 vehicle.
2. With such complex and involved modifications, having a reliable,
working truck is going to be a tough job. I don't know but I'm guessing
you'd have to spend BIG money (10-15k ??) to get it done right. I doubt
that a lot of the work could be done properly by anyone who doesn't have a
lot of experience. You're going to need the frame beefed up. You need to
buy your engine, tranny, transfer case, drive line, axels, brakes,
some sort of steering mechanism, cooling system,and probably lots more
stuff that I don't know about. Then you have to make it all work together
and get it road legal. While I can see the apeal of a Rover that could lay
strips down the road, I think that you'd be better off looking for a used
D90 that needs work and modifying its V8. I have seen internet ads for
Defenders around New York going for ~10 grand.  

Niall Forbes
still looking

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From: "Clayton Kirkwood" <kirkwood@garlic.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:37:36 -0800
Subject: FW: Memo Leaked From Rover Headquarters

Sorry for the crosspost, but one of the benefits of owning various
British Marques, is that some of the same humor can be appreciated
across various lists. It is particularly funny given the MG lists have
been talking about Rover's (and BMW's) possible plans for selling
MGF's in the US and also possibly Rover sedans and possibly even a
Healey name plate again (possibly using the same platform as one of
the  BMW small chassis cars.

The MGers are all in an uproar about the Rover group and what is going
to happen to it. Adds a special perspective being also from the LR
lists.

Enjoy...

Clayton Kirkwood
(916) 663-2368
kirkwood@garlic.com

 >
 >  From: Michelle Jones Blyth
 >  To Rover GROUP From BMW Headquarters.
 >
 >  We at BMW feel that members of our UK operation could benefit
 >  from knowing certain auto terminology used by your German
 >  counterparts.  This should avoid embarrassment at our
 >  interdepartmental
 >  meetings.  Therefore before the next technical meeting
 >  please make the
 >  effort read and  inwardly digest the following :
 >
 >  INDICATORS----------Die Blinkenleiten Tickentocken
 >  SPEEDOMETER---------Der Egobooster
 >  PUNCTURE------------Die Phatte mit Bludyfucken
 >  LEARNER-------------Die Twaten mit Elplatt
 >  ESTATE CAR----------Die Bagsromm fur Shagginkinauto
 >  WINDSCREEN WIPER----Die Fippenflappenschittenspredden
 >  FOOTBRAKE-----------Der Edbangenonvindskreen stoppenquik
 >  BREATHALYSER--------Die Puffintem fur Pistenarsen
 >  SEATBELT------------Der Klunkenklicken Frauleintrapper
 >  HEADLIGHTS----------Das Dippendontdazzle ubastud
 >  FOG WARNING---------Die Puttenfutdownen Fukit
 >  HIGHWAY CODE--------Der Wipen fur Arsen
 >  TRAFFIC JAM---------Der Bluddinfukkin damnundblasten
 >  BACKFIRE------------Der Lowdenbangen mekkenme Fuckenjumpen
 >  JUGGERNAUT----------Der Fukkengret trucken
 >  ACCIDENT------------Der Bleedinmess
 >  NEAR ACCIDENT-------Der Fucken neer schittenselfen
 >  CYCLIST-------------Pedalpushen pilloken
 >  REAR VIEW MIRROR----Der Yokhunter TooKlosen
 >

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:40:57 EST
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

In a message dated 99-02-17 15:40:15 EST, you write:

 The way I heard it - not one of Nate's patients have ever survived...
 (unless you count reincarnation that is)
 Guess there aren't many openings in private practice for a pathologist? >>

Would you let this man work on your landie?

Bill Lawrence

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:12:11 EST
Subject: Re: Extracting the steering relay part 2

In a message dated 99-02-17 15:47:21 EST, you write:

 Thanks for the replies regarding the HOW of getting the relay out - but
 haven't I read/heard/seen something about the relay being a spring
 loaded death trap waiting to de-jaw the unwary mechanic?
 
 Or is this just an urban legend?
 
 Adrian Redmond >>
The procedure for disassembling the relay once it is out of the chassis
involves removing one of the end plates and forcing the shaft, spring and cone
bushings out the open end and into a bucket or something to catch the parts.
There is a spring involved and if you are careless it can do some damage, but
just point it down into the bucket and stay out of the way. Reassembly is a
little more complex because you have to be able to compress the spring and
assemble the cone bushings before you put it back in the bore. My SI manual
shows two methods. I will describe the one that doesn't take any special
tools.  
 
1.     Assemble two cone bushings on the tapered journal near one end of the
shaft and hold in place with a hose clamp. 
2.    Place the spring on the shaft and put a pin through both the spring and
the shaft via the transverse lube hole in the shaft. 
3.     Wind the spring down the pin to compress it to a length of about three
inches (until there is clearance to install the other cone bushings).
4.     Place the other two cone bushings on the other tapered journal and hold
it with a second hose clamp. 
5.     Remove the pin.
6.     Start the shaft into the housing and remove the first hose clamp as the
bushings slide into the housing.
7.     Slide the shaft all the way into the housing removing the second hose
clamp as the bushings are slid into the housing.
8.     Replace the end covers.

Good luck, let us know how it works.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: Jstsmokeit@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:21:51 EST
Subject: My Apology

 Tsk, tsk, tsk. How dare you, an obviously intelligent and aged Land Rover
veteran, sink to such depths as to criticize my word usage and grammar?
What have you to gain by issuing me a grammar (!) induced tirade? I'm 16
years old. I wrote that letter as quickly as possible and, in my (admitted)
rut, I negated to proof-read it. For that, I apologize. And I also
apologize for any inflamatory comments or statements that I may have made.
But I must mention that I can't help but to find fault in your reasons for
'flaming' me. Grammar? That's petty, pathetic and sad. But I digress.
    On a related note, I must clarify my reason behind my 'attack' on Frank.
It's quite simple, actually; I neither enjoy nor approve of having my
intelligence PUBLICALLY insulted by someone whom I don't know and who has
little or no insight about myself and my life. (much less somoeone whose
acquaintance I have made) Had he not taken the initiative to imply that I'm
an idiot, I certainly never would have even considered writing my previous
message.  
    Finally, I must comment about the so-called "purists" on this message
board. I respect each and every one of your opinions even if, at times, it
may appear otherwise.  You are all likely more experience than I and, as
much, I think that I owe you and your opinions a listen at the least.
However, I do not understand why I've been flamed simply because I want to
modify a Land Rover. Isn't self-expression the ultimate act of love? If I
didn't love Rovers just as much as the rest of you, would I even consider
undertaking a project of this magnitude? My friends have called me crazy,
you have called me stupid, and still, my will to undertake this monstrous
endeavor is as strong as the day when it was conceived. Why, then, won't
you, the Land Rover veterans, help a neophyte in his quest to become one of
you? Isn't that what experience is all about?

Sincerely,

Brent Markus

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:30:54 EST
Subject: Re: Carburettors, headers and flywheel thickness

In a message dated 99-02-17 18:33:39 EST, you write:

 If you could put any carburetor and intake manifold on your 2.25 petrol
engine (Turner, if it
 matters), what would you choose?  I've seen opinions on every make and option
imaginable.  I'm
 looking for reliable starting and driving, then power, then fuel mileage.  I
live in Colorado, at
 altitude, with all four seasons present and accounted for.
  >>
If you have a choice, and recalling the altitude extremes you may encounter
the SU carburettor is very easily adjusted for altitude. You don't have to
change a handful of jets, emulsion tubes, or venturis. All you have to do is
adjust the main jet up or down in the carb bridge. They also have the
advantage of maintaining a constant vacuum in the manifold and usually a
larger throat size. They also have fewer moving (wearing) parts than other
carbs. I don't know if they are durable enough to be reliable on a thumper
like the 2.25L.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:05:13 EST
Subject: Re: Second 383 stroker follow-up

In a message dated 99-02-17 18:36:49 EST, you write:

<<  I am a busy kid, and what I don't want is a
 vehicle that works half of the time, the other half of the time being time to
 fix it.  I plan on doing this project right, once and then have to maintain
 mildly more than a contemporary SUV: is that so intolerable to allow? >>

A properly built and maintained Landrover will outlast most custom built
specials by a factor of at least 10 to one. As one respondant said your
Landrover's technology is "old", not as you stated "shoddy" It was actually
fairly avant-garde at the time it was produced and most of the parts that
mattered were actually of very high quality. The 2.25 liter engine used a full
flow oil filtration system and roller cam at a time when most manufacturers
were just beginning to think about them. Even the Series I used an overhead
inlet valve during a period of time when FoMoCo was still stuck in the dark
ages with side valves. 

As for reliability my experience has shown that with regular maintenance a LR
will run as reliably as most contempoary vehicles and that the design is stout
enough that when something does go wrong there is usually a way to work around
it. For example my youngest son (still your senior) is driving a Series III
which he rolled three times. With about $500 in body parts we put it on the
road and he has driven it across country. What modern (unshoddy?) vehicle
could you do that with?

 I have seen many souped up high performance jeeps, etc. blast by me on the
trail. I have also seen many of them with hoods up further on. High speeds and
extreme machinery off road don't necessarily equate to finishing the race or
arriving at your destination and in fact only serve to increase the danger and
the possibility of loss. Having enough power to break all four wheels loose is
a narcotic and it usually ends with the engine, if not the whole vehicle, in a
scrap pile.

It's great to have dreams but it's best to learn the basics first.

Bill (older than the hills) Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: Garret Scott <scottgs@icx.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:16:30 -0500
Subject: Overdrive for sale or trade

I have finally decided to clear out the garage.  I have one slightly
used overdrive for sale.  Shifted only on Sundays by an elderly
grandmother, never driven over 45 mph.

Seriously, I would like to sell this Fairy Overdrive for a series Land
Rover, complete with shifter, linkage etc.  It has about 20k miles use,
works fine (for a Fairy overdrive).

First $450.00 gets it, or may trade for a winch, or make me an offer, or
else I'll be forced to list it on E_ay, or otherwise dispose of it in an
ecologically correct manner.

If interested please respond to me directly.  I sure hope I am not
violating some list rules or something.  Guess I'll know soon enough.

Garret Scott  W8BUG
scottgs@icx.net
423.531.4060

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:23:48 EST
Subject: Re: Beat on the Brat--was 383 Stroker

In a message dated 99-02-17 20:58:14 EST, you write:

 Bill Rice
 64 SIIa 109SW
 Columbus, GA  >>
Hi Bill,

Have you seen my kid in his 88 yet? He said he got together with some LROs and
got it muddy a while back. Sounds like more fun than I've been having. I love
the kid but I sure do miss that truck.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:46:43 EST
Subject: Re: Overdrive for sale or trade

In a message dated 99-02-18 00:17:41 EST, you write:

 If interested please respond to me directly.  I sure hope I am not
 violating some list rules or something.  Guess I'll know soon enough.
 
 Garret Scott  W8BUG >>
Yes you are violating one rule by using the term ecologically correct. Let the
tree huggers get their own list.

Seriously I'll ask my son the next time I hear from him he has expressed an
interest in an OD.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:32:20 -0800
Subject: Re: Carburettors, headers and flywheel thickness

Keith Cutler wrote:

> If you could put any carburetor and intake manifold on your 2.25 petrol 
engine (Turner, if it
> matters), what would you choose?

I'd say you've got three choices.

1) an SU mounted on the ACR manifold (what I'll be moving to from a Zenith)
2) a Rochester (reasonably available)  "stock substitute"
3) a dual Weber on the Pierce manifold

1 and 3 are probably not too different with 3 being probably easier to find 
bits for in the US.

> What would you do for an exhaust system?  Standard manifold or header?

Headers (for example Pierce or BNW's) probably aren't worthwhile unless you 
also improve the head flow.
Then they make sense and are probably the biggest potential gain you'll find.

>  After resurfacing, my flywheel is 1.42"
> thick which is about 0.06" too thin according to the Haynes.

I've been told by machinist that you can get away with that.

Jeremy

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:39:03 +0200
Subject: Re: My Apology

Jstsmokeit@aol.com wrote:
>  Tsk, tsk, tsk. How dare you, an obviously intelligent and aged Land Rover
> veteran, sink to such depths as to criticize my word usage and grammar?
> What have you to gain by issuing me a grammar (!) induced tirade? I'm 16
> years old. I wrote that letter as quickly as possible and, in my (admitted)

Hey Brent,

Don't take this bunch too seriously - I certainly don't!

Now go drown your sorrows... with a big glass of milk and some cookies
;-P
 
Regards

Paul (don't take me too seriously either) Oxley
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 02:06:51 EST
Subject: Re: RHD to LHD

In a message dated 99-02-17 22:08:11 EST, you write:

<< I don't really have a problem w/ the RHD, I lived in Singapore for a while
and
 had a car over there and got along fine.  The only problem there was which
side
 of the road to use.  Its more my fear of what might happen when my girl
friend
 drives it.  I can just imagine the car returning with the whole left hand
side
 swiped.  I was thinking I'd leave it RHD until I could collect all of the
parts
 and about the time when she really wants to drive it I'd be ready to change
it
 over.  She manages to find every curb with in striking distance when she
drives
 the Disco, and I'm afraid of what might happen in a RHD.
 >>

Rick,

I'll take the RHD steering box off your hands - I need a replacement for -
whatever the South African Army put in my 109! (still haven't identified it
yet)

Charles

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From: "David and Cynthia Walker" <wahooadv@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 02:28:06 -0800
Subject: 383 - young

Well, I have remained out of this.......but I must say that your age
explains much

Oh, the old days when I wanted to hide a blower under the hood of my 1964
Dodge 1 ton (yes, the one with the 750X17's, 318, 6,000#'s of good hard
solid farm steel)

Give it a rest, Brent. Come back when you need info from the list that is
for the positive benefit of furthering a Land Rover and the ideals that most
of the LR community foster. You say that you read the info on boards and
read the list - well, then, you know what kind of information exchange goes
on here.

As was echoed many times, perhaps you should choose another vehicle, one
that is a bit closer to the final goal........

I suggest, with all honesty, the early Bronco's - they are collectable, fun,
look good AND it is very near to what you want. Or perhaps a Unimog will
take you to all the places that your Series Frankenstein might dream about.

Second suggestion - give the list a break.........no one wants to know or
get mixed up in Land Rover Monster Trucks - otherwise we would have 455's
(maybe 527's!!) with Deuce and a half running gear.

Cheers
David
Full-time father of Alexander - 4 years old, this past winter solstice
1970 Land Rover IIA, 88" - "BEAN TOAD"
S/V KALAKALA  - our home, an Ingrid 38, ketch rigged
wahooadv@earthlink.net

end of message

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Duncan Phillips <dunk@ivanhoe.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:34:50 +0000
Subject: VIN Query

Hi all..... I have a quick query about my VIN number. My LR is a 1980 SWB,
but there were a number of changes made to the model in july 1980. I'm
trying to find out if my LR is pre-july or post-july.

I've looked in the FAQ, and decoded the VIN number as much as possible,
down to the last 6 digits which is the serial number of the vehicle, but
the data in the FAQ only goes up to '79.

The serial number is 104745.

Any help would be greatly appreciated - thanks in advance!!

 
*******************************
Duncan Phillips
1980 SWB SIII 'Evie'
http://Gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~cmtdmp/play/lrover/
*******************************
Big Bad n' Blue

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From: "Joost Kramer" <jkramer@best.ms.philips.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:36:53 +0100
Subject: Re: VIN Query

>Hi all..... I have a quick query about my VIN number. My LR is a 1980 SWB,
>but there were a number of changes made to the model in july 1980. I'm
>trying to find out if my LR is pre-july or post-july.

Post july SWB has wide brake drums and pre has 1 inch brake pads.

>I've looked in the FAQ, and decoded the VIN number as much as possible,
>down to the last 6 digits which is the serial number of the vehicle, but
>the data in the FAQ only goes up to '79.
>The serial number is 104745.

This is not a VIN number, this has characters and numbers. So I think you have 
a pre
1980.

Joost

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From: Duncan Phillips <dunk@ivanhoe.soc.staffs.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:54:01 +0000
Subject: Re: VIN Query

>This is not a VIN number, this has characters and numbers. So I think you

have a pre
>1980.

No, what I said was the LAST 6 DIGITS of the VIN are 104745, which
according to the FAQ, denotes the serial number of the vehicle.

*******************************
Duncan Phillips
1980 SWB SIII 'Evie'
http://Gawain.soc.staffs.ac.uk/~cmtdmp/play/lrover/
*******************************
Big Bad n' Blue

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From: "Joost Kramer" <jkramer@best.ms.philips.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:58:05 +0100
Subject: Re: VIN Query

>No, what I said was the LAST 6 DIGITS of the VIN are 104745, which
>according to the FAQ, denotes the serial number of the vehicle.

Sorry, I read a little to fast.

Joost

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From: "David Vella" <landy@digigate.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:06:07 +0100
Subject: building a hard top for a lwb series 2a (cross post)

 Hi

Sorry for the cross post but i need to reach the max amount of people as i
need some help on building a hard top for an lwb seres 2a !!

the series is not mine but of a rescue volunteer organisation and we need to
build a hardtop for the 2a, anyone has some info on how can we build one, or
anyone has built one himself ? we would possibly need the measurements and
some pics. if possible as it would help us a lot !

the other option is of buying one , we found one locally (Malta-Europe)
second-hand for LM200 ($600, 400Sterlings)!! anyone has one for sale cheaper
than this and in good condition ? windows are not a must (prefer if withou
them) ?

thanks guys, since i have been on the list i really learned a lot on my 1988
Turbo Diesel 90 and altought i dont write to the list so often i would like
to thank you for your immense help :))

cya, regards !

     David Vella
  GFI Fax & Voice
 [www.gfifax.com]
-=1988 White 90=-

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