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From: Peter Goundry <peterg@aircast.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:08:44 -0500
Subject: Merlins (No LR)

In the sixties (or seveties?) some bloke in England fitted the Merlin
under a Rolls Royce body. This came to light when the German authorities
complained to Rolls Royce about them testing their vehicles on the
German autobahns. It appeared that this vehicle blowed through their
radar at 180mph plus.

Peter Goundry
67GS109 IIA, 73 Lightweight, 97 D90 #127

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:11:12 -0400
Subject: Re: A question about tire size

Peter Hope wrote:

> Aloha all.
> Nope don't want to know "what's the largets size I can fit with out
> rubbing". Don't care about that or raising the center of gravity.
> I am more interested in how large the stock stock (non salsbury) axles can
> handle.  The recent thread on building a series one dragster had me
> thinking.
> I know that as tires get larger they creat a greater rolling resistance
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 18 lines)]
> Mahalo,
> Pete

Using new genuine 1/2 shafts we have run 32-10.50-15 in extreme offroad
conditions for over 2 years without axle breakage. However I would not recomend
going to  any larger size.
The strain on the axles results from the longer lever fromed from the center of
the hub to the radius of the tire ie. the larger the tire harder the axle has to
work to move the vehicle. Do not confuse this with rolling resistance as this
works the other way round, the larger tire will roll easier as it can over come
the inertia of the drive train easier because of the longer lever effect.
To sum up your choice of 32-9.50-15 is a good one, go for it.
John and Muddy

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 08:33:22 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: FWH elimination/Nigels Disorder? 

Jarvis64@aol.com wrote:

> Howdy folks,
> No, I'm not here to talk about 454s with headers.  I'm here to talk about
         [ truncated by lro-lite (was 20 lines)]
> to sell/give me?
> Bill Rice

Hmmmm. I wonder if Russsel Dushin's Nigel is having this problem...mine started 
leaking about two months ago. Ordered a set of used drive flanges form Mike 
Buonanduci. parts are still in the box in the closet. Used parts must age 6 
months before installing. If you do want to fix the FWH's I think all you need 
is an o-ring. I personally can't be bothered for something that I never use, 
i.e., they are always locked. 

later
dave

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:38:31 EST
Subject: Re: Re[2]: FWH elimination/Nigels Disorder?

In a message dated 2/22/99 8:33:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbobeck@ushmm.org
writes:

>  I personally can't be bothered for something that I never use, 
>  i.e., they are always locked. 

Totally agree here.  I never unlock my hubs (well, only when I'm doing the
front brakes).  When my FWH start leaking, they are history.

Nate

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 08:51:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Horror Story--Buyer Beware 

>the brake lines are from Britain and will not pass US
>inspection either, one more thing after another.why is this so? Maybe 
>someday a resolution
>will be reached.

Wot!! Brake lines are brake lines, if the fittings aren't leaking they will be 
fine in Virginia. Lots of cars from britain over here. You are blaming 
everything on BB. Used bolts for the tire carrier? big deal. do thye work? that 
is the question. if they are stripped then you have a (small) complaint. Clutch 
pedal box cover? not an enormous problem but they should be able to source it. 
I don't know about your cracked head. Does it leak? You are obviously 
overreacting to some of this stuff, but you do have a legitimate point as well. 
Although it sound like you could become a little tiresome and quickly at that. 
I have had some good delaings with Sewth and I have also heard some quality 
issues with their new parts. I also know of one other person that bought a 
truck form them. Very nice truck that needed an engine rebuild (I think Seth 
paid for most of this) and now it is getting the gearbox rebuilt but this is 
due to factors beyond the control of the seller, i.e., it simply just went. 
Landies are prone to this sort of thing and I think you just have to accept 
that the likelyhood of major parts going south shortly after you purchase the 
vehicle does exist.
Learn to be resourceful, not dependent, and you will have one of the qualities 
of a true LRO.
Cut BB loose and get these paltry items yourself. 
later
dave (in virginia with UK brake lines)
PS, Original LR screw jack handles are rare, you are lucky to have gotten one, 
the jacks are still worth something even without them

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:33:50 +0000
Subject: Test Drive Comments Appreciated 

LR Listers,
I have a few questions.  I have been seeking a Land Rover for a 
couple of years.  My favorite is a 2A 109 PU, but they are hard to 
find nearby.  Last Saturday, I test drove a '73 series 3 88 at a LR 
dealer in Louisville KY.  It drove with more pep than I was led to 
expect: 2.25 petrol (68k miles), Weber single barrel, 15 inch wheels, 
overdrive. I do not know if it will tow a small 2k lbs trailer, so 
this remains unanswered.  I was able to turn the vehicle around 
within a narrow boulevard ...tighter than I have been led to expect.  
The acceleration was not as my Mazda626 would give, but it was
enough for me and kept me out of trouble.   

Negatives.  I was unable to feel safe going above an indicated 50 mph 
...unfortunately, this means I could not see how it would perform 
merging and cruising at safe interstate speeds (one of my necessary 
uses).  The salesman kept me to about two miles of secondary and 
suburb roads ...perhaps this is their "approved" course.  Obviously, 
the drive was all only 2WD.  I have never done this before ...is this 
customary?  Do they ever let you take it out alone?  Should I have 
suggested finding a patch of dirt with it?  The tires were new 
radials, yet the steering wander was more than I was confortable 
with.  It was as if I was forever correcting it, yet the road was 
smooth with no crown.  Is this something one gets used to?  The
front suspension seemed tight when hand tugged and the swivel balls 
are clean, shiny and appear to not leak.  The frame looked freshly 
undercoated and there was a new part ...sort of a vertical stamped 
steel bracket from the frame to the steering box?  Might this explain 
the steering wander?  The frame was caved in at the points where the 
dealer had lifted the vehicle.  The salesman said that this is common 
since this is the lowest point in the frame and water often sits 
here.  He knows a welder that has apparently made repairs of this 
type before ...simply cut away the rotten bottom and replace with new 
metal.  It appears only to be a problem in three lifted areas as best 
I could tell.  The frame rear cross-section, which I was directed to 
look at, was great.  I looked it over pretty well and could see no 
sign of corrosion.  The front right side bumper horn appeared to have 
hardware cloth covering a hole on the side of the box section. I 
asked the dealer about this ...he believes the welder he mentioned 
could repair this as well.  Might someone have added some sort of 
accessory to the frame front leaving these large holes upon removal? 
They appear too high for water to have sat and rotted.  I once saw a 
winch on the front of a Rover ...what manner of mounting holes would 
they require through the horns?  As a plus, the undercoating looked 
to cover all critical areas.  The salesman believes $600 should cover 
the cost of all the frame repairs.  Has anyone ever repaired a frame 
like this before?  I would look at other Rovers if they were nearby.  
There is listed a Middle States LR Club and I have been trying to get 
someone there to render a second opinion.  (Bill Maniscalco, where 
are you?)  I have spoken to other Rover owners over the last few 
years and this rust seems to be common ...not quite as bad as 
this series 3, but once a repair is needed, does it really matter if 
the rot is one inch or two?  This series 3 is priced at $12kUS and 
has a very good body.  I know this is high, although the dealer would 
discount it the $600 to make frame repairs and probably a bit more 
(it has been on their lot for over a year, I think).  But then, they 
had a "Defender Diamond Edition" priced at $49500US, so perhaps this 
$12kUS is considered "giveaway" priced.  The salesman was seeking 
comments and I was out of time ...he is to call me today.
I appreciate your comments.  

Mark

PS.  Thanks for the IH Scout comments.  I know this is a LR list and 
appreciate your tolerance of such ruminating ...just gotta' get a 
decent LR ride to prove to myself that I will love it enuf to sell my 
old Scout to get the bucks for the new horse...

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:13:06 EST
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated

Mark,
Stay away from that SIII--$12k ought to bring you an 88 that's got a
functional (not cosmetic or picky) restoration done to it sitting on a
galvanized frame with LOTS of new parts used in the resto--all brake
components and wiring, I'd think.

A SIII with an iffy frame and everything else in good shape (but the iffy
frame makes me wonder if everything else is in good shape--frames caving in
where one lifts them is not something one should expect) should set you back
about $4-6k, I'd think, but I'm not super up on prices.  Just wanted to fire
this off before you did something you'll regret.

Take your time and look around a bit.  Does anyone know if Russ W. is still
selling that 88" he had--it was in good shape on a galv frame and he wanted a
good bit less than 12 k for it.

Bill Rice
Siia 109SW
St. Louis, MO (today) (Ft. Leavenworth KS tomorrow)
Columbus, GA (normally)

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:17:50 +0100
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated

You must drive this truck off road using both low and high ratio and
high 4WD before you buy it.

All comments regarding rust/holes in frame are made relative to price
mentioned. For this price (in Europe) you could expect a clean,
perfectly rustfree frame - probably galvanised as well. I don't know
about the US but over here D90's are available at that price.

With frames of this vintage inspect thouroughly - and where you can't
see problems - expect the worst! Land Rovers always rust in the same
places - here are my liost of favoutite spoits to inspect -

Front horns
Front X member - underneath, near steering relay
Main chassismember, each side of rubbers above axles
Left hand chassismember, underneath, and areas near exhaust pipe
Area where new rear half chassis may have been welded on before
Area where new rear cross member may have been welded on before
Outriggers esp. rear spring forward mounts.
Outrigger for rear spring rear mounts
Underside of middle cross members

In my experience no rust holes in the chassis can be effectivly patched
(OK it depends what you mean by effective - enough to look nice for <
quick sale to an unsuspecting buyer? Enough to pass a quick MOT
inpestion in Europe? Or enough to actually restore the lost strength and
maleability to the chassis? If you haven't tried to weld a chassis
yourself, believe me, that it is hard to make real repairs without
cutting back large sections of the frame.

A bad chassis is not a problem if you are thinking of a rebuild,
indetend to replace the entire frame, and the price is right. But if you
need a working reliable frame on which to build from day 1, then it's
either OK or useless in my book.

My greatest reservation is one of price. As I said, I'm not sure about
prices stateside, but 12K for a S3 seems very high to me (reasonable for
a S1 (collectors value) or D90 (Market value) but the S3 is neither.
Such a truck (S3 same age, condition) can be bought for about 1-2K here
in Europe.

My advice is have someone who know these trucks look at it with you,
test drive it and try all the gears, and get it up to speed (long period
at speed really reveals any hidden problems in a S3)

Good luck.
Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
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e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
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Contact the "Native Experience" film unit in Alaska
          telephone   +1 (907) 230 0359
          e-mail      channel6@alaska.net
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 10:29:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated  

> I test drove a '73 series 3 88 at a LR dealer in Louisville KY.  

The usual dealer routine does not apply to RL's. You need to spend at 
least 3 hours inspecting the vehicle. Look in LRO back issues for 
buying guides, and the FAQ for information on what you need to check. 
Purchase a copy of Haynes's Lindsay Porter's Guide to DIY 
Restoration. This book shows what a real knackered rover will look 
like.

>It drove with more pep than I was led to expect: 2.25 petrol (68k miles), Weber
>single barrel, 15 inch wheels, overdrive. I do not know if it will tow a small 
>2k lbs trailer,

They are faster than one thinks, especially with a rebuilt motor. With a 2k 
trailer they will be considerably slower. 

>Negatives.  I was unable to feel safe going above an indicated 50 
>mph ...

Feels safe...not be safe...:)
Seriously, the steering wander needs to be diagnosed, probably loose 
bits/extra paly in the steering. Could be kingpins, tie rod ends, 
steering box mountings, wear in the steering relay, etc. Could be 
expensive to fix. Front end rebuilds can take a few days or more and 
can cost $1000 worst case. Subtract this form the asking price.

> The salesman kept me to about two miles of secondary and suburb 
>roads ...

oughtta take it out on the highway, or maybe not :). also put it in 
4wd, go around some truns on dry -pavement. iF 4wd is engaged and 
working the wheels will hop a bit.

>Do they ever let you take it out alone? 

Doesn't matter. Nothing you do on the test drive should hurt it, if 
it does, there is a problem, nbetter it happens while they still own 
it.

> Should I have suggested finding a patch of dirt with it?  The tires 
>were new radials, yet the steering wander was more than I was 
>confortable with. 

see above

>there was a new part...Might this explain the steering wander?  

watch the box and firewall while your helper rocks the wheel back and 
forth. if the firewall or box moves there is a problem, either loose 
bolts holding the box etc, or rusted firewall that is folding up 
under load.

>The frame was caved in at the points where the dealer had lifted the 
>vehicle.  The salesman said that this is common since this is the 
>lowest point in the frame and water often sits here.  
>It appears only to be a problem in three lifted areas
>The front right side bumper horn appeared to have hardware cloth 
>covering a hole on the side of the box section. 

ack! run away. these are the signs of a badly corroded vehicle. needs 
a new frame likely, at the very least to be taken apart 100% and 
checked everywhere, and repaired correctly. $600 is not enough for 
any wleder to do competent repairs to a LR frame. I've seen this 
happen too many times. Subtract $10,000 from cost of vehicle for 
complete resotration. Dealers don't know shit about Series Rovers, 
think they do, think every one is some kind of gem. Ridiculous if you 
ask me.

Mark why are you looking at 12k rovers, I thought you only had $5k. 
Buy one off of LRX. There is even one for sale in arlington with a 
recent frame over. new frame, springs, shocks, brakes etc.

I thikn its around $6-7k 

later
dave

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:27:05 EST
Subject: Re: Horror Story--Buyer Beware

In a message dated 2/22/99 8:58:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, dbobeck@ushmm.org
writes:

> PS, Original LR screw jack handles are rare, you are lucky to have gotten
one,
>  the jacks are still worth something even without them

Are you talking about the rod with a ring at one end?  If so, just have a
welder make one up for you or do what i did, get a GM/Chevy truck jack from a
local junk yard.  Works great (better than the original)

Nate

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:47:03 -0800
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated 

Mark I know it is a long drive to kansas but I have a much better Series
III here you can have for $7000.00 Ray (In vancouver)

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From: Wesley Harris <wharris@midmon.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:45:05 -0600
Subject: Russ W's 88

>Does anyone know if Russ W. is still
>selling that 88" he had--it was in good shape on a galv frame and he wanted a
>good bit less than 12 k for it.

Bill & the rest a youse,

Russ in fact sold The Pig a few weeks ago.

Cheers,

Wes Harris
PGH PA
'64 IIA 88 SW 'Sick Boy'

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:15:00 -0800
Subject: Re: Kodiak Heater

Roy I have a good core here you can have for $50 Ray Call 1-888-880-2600

----------
> From: Roy H Caldwell <kiotee@mcn.net>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Kodiak Heater
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 5:36 AM
> Has anybody found a reasonable replacement for the heater core on the =
> Kodiak Heater?  My has a leak and I really don't want to spend 200 bucks

=

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:27:24 -0500
Subject: Registration regs

C. Marin Faure <faurecm@halcyon.com> wrote:

>There is another problem I neglected to mention.  While importing it in
>pieces may get around the federal EPA and DOT regs, it ain't gonna do any
>good in Washington State when I go to get it registered and licensed.  I
>this state, if it isn't in their little black book as a legally imported
>or manufactured vehicle, it doesn't exist, which means they won't issue a
>registration or license.  They're going to look in there and see that
>there's never been a vehicle called a Land Rover Defender 130 imported to
>the US.  

Good point...however, some states are more lax than others.  A friend went
to the Virginia DMV wanting to register his '77 Rangie - a West German spec
vehicle - which is very close to NA spec vehicles.  DMV didn't have any
listings for Range Rovers made that year.  So they asked him who it was
made by.  "British Leyland" was the reply.  Yup...they listed that...so his
rangie got listed as a 12 passenger Leyland bus...go figure....

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: "A. P. \"Sandy\" Grice" <rover@pinn.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:27:25 -0500
Subject: More....

Michael Carradine <cs@landrover.net> wrote:

> Registration is not a problem in California and most other states
> under the Kit Car or 'home built' laws.  We can call such a vehicle a
> Land Rover Defender 130 (or anything else)....

Again, some states are more lenient than others.  Saw Charlie Haigh's
registration for his spiffy, home-built (well, shop-built) D-90 TDi...the
Vermont registration had "home made" as the vehicle type and the form was
*hand written*.  When I bought the Disco from LRNA, the Maryland
registration form they gave me was filled in *in pencil*!  Cheers

  *----jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary----*
  |                                                   |
  |             A. P. ("Sandy") Grice                 |
  |    Rover Owners' Association of Virginia, Ltd.    |
  |     Association of North American Rover Clubs     |
  |    1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA 23508-1730     |
  |(O)757-622-7054, (H)757-423-4898, FAX 757-622-7056 |
  |                                                   |
  |   (original owner)        (pre-production)        | 
  *----1972 Series III------1996 Discovery SE-7(m)----*

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From: Garrick Brett Olsen <gbolsen@allina.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 10:23:35 PST
Subject: Jack Stand;  Bonnet mount

Hi,

I had a little time with the Landie (1961 SerII SWB) this weekend!! Of course 
that means more 
questions for you:

1.  I just bought a 15" rim spare with some old tread on it.  I put it on the 
bonnet and tried 
to bolt down the rim.  The bolts are barely long enough to allow the little arm 
to reach over 
the rim.  I had a 16" rim oldie on the bonnet before I measured them.  That 
seemed to fit lower 
on the bonnet: ie the bolts were not out so far and the leg on the arm almost 
touched the 
bonnet.  Oh, it's a deluxe dished out bonnet.

Did I mount this 15" right?  Are there depth differences between 15" rims and 
16" rims?  

2.  I have to check the brake function and so plan to jack and then axle stand 
the Rover.  It 
doesn't look like there is enough room for the axle stand on the right between 
the pumpkin and 
the spring hanger. 

 Where should I put the right side axle stand?

-Rik

Name: Garrick Brett Olsen
E-mail: Garrick Brett Olsen <gbolsen@allina.com>
Date: 2/22/99
Time: 10:23:35 AM

This message was sent by Chameleon 

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:30:31 EST
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated

In my opinion, anybody that asks 12K for a 88 that needs a chassis, is on some
serious drugs!

I sold my 1959 88" (gave it away) for $2500 + a truck cab: it needed a rear
crossmember THAT I THREW INTO THE DEAL!

The guy I sold it to, turned around and sold it for $4500 - and kept the parts
I threw in with it!

...But I really wanted the truck cab for my 109 - and the guy I "gave' the 88
to, is a good friend (he "gave" the 109 to me, so I figured I owed him one),
so I wasn't worried about losing anything in the deal.

If you really NEED that truck, offer the dealer $2500 - $3000: if they don't
take it, then walk away. Besides, $49500 is (to me) WAY too much for a used
D110 anyway.

Guess its because I know how some of those trucks get treated...

Charles

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:52:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack Stand;  Bonnet mount

Garrick Brett Olsen wrote:
> Hi,
> I had a little time with the Landie (1961 SerII SWB) this weekend!! Of course 
that means more
> questions for you:
> 1.  I just bought a 15" rim spare with some old tread on it.  I put it on the 
bonnet and tried
> to bolt down the rim.  The bolts are barely long enough to allow the little 
arm to reach over
> the rim.  I had a 16" rim oldie on the bonnet before I measured them.  That 
seemed to fit lower

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 21 lines)]
>  Where should I put the right side axle stand?
> -Rik

You can safely put the jack stand right under the spring between the U
bolt nuts.

The 15 inch rim has more offset than the 16 inch one for the 88 so 
longer hold down bolts were used on the hood spare tire mounts.
You may also be able to use the clamps intended for 7.70x 16 as they
have longer "legs". You may already have these just installed the other
way up.
John and Muddy

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From: Bryan Colleran <colleran@golden.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 11:52:23 -0500
Subject: Air compressor question

As far as compressors and their abilty to get different jobs done, I have
found that very satisfactory sandblasting performance con be coaxed out of
even a quite small compressor.

I currently use an ancient 1 HP single action Sears compressor with about a
5-gallon reservoir to sandblast smallish stuff (up to about the size of a
breakfast). The limiting factor using the technique I describe below is not
the compressor, but the size of the booth I'm using, which is a plywood
affair I made up myself out old scrap I had lying around. I have
beadblasted a hood (bonnet) and a frame outdoors using this small
compressor. This is a messy, dusty business, with a good quality respirator
as a mandatory. I'm not sure I'd do it again, but the compressor is not the
limiting factor.

I might add, by the way, that I've been trying for years to come up with an
effective way to get suface rust off semi-irreplaceable parts - I've been
into restoring odd-ball motorcycles since the late 60s. The problem was
always getting enough blasting medium onto the workpiece with enough force.
Using my little compressor, and a Sears-quality (i.e. questionable)
gun/material reservoir, I always had clogging, and, even when it wasn't
clogged, it took ages to get anything cleaned because the flow was so wimpy.

I thought at first it was moisture - wet sand, wet air or both. So I went
through a lot of hoops to try and improve things on this front. In the end,
it made some difference, but not enough.

Obviously, I then thought, the problem is simply inadequate airflow. I got
my hands on a 6 HP 220 V compressor with a 40 Gallon tank, and thought I'd
be off to the races. It obviously helped, but not as much as I had hoped it
would.

Then I thought about it a bit harder and discovered what seems to be the
secret. It not just the air pressure passing through the gun, it's the
suction being applied to the medium in the reservoir that makes the real
difference. (any science-heads out there: give me a break. I'm a would be
grease-monkey, not a would-be physicist). Once I had this brain-wave,
things improved rapidly.

Instead of trying to haul sand through the 8-foot hose that comes with the
kit to connect the sand reservoir to the gun, I now just stick an 8-inch
piece of hose on the material input and stick the other end into a
coffee-can full of sand that I then move around in tandem with the gun.
It's tad awkward, and you have to refill the can fairly often, but, using
this technique, I get more material to the workpiece using my 1 HP unit
than I did using the 6 HP unit with the 8-foot hose.

Interestingly enough, I have found that this short-hose method seems to
work just about as well with either compressor. I suspect that the size of
nozzle is the limiting factor here. Once you get certain amount of material
passing through, that's it. If you want more you need a bigger nozzle.
(Once again, I'm no physicist.)

At any rate, I've found that I get a pretty good job done with this
minimalist set-up. For big heavy-gauge stuff, (axle housings, etc)  I think
it's probably a better idea to go to an industrial blaster, but they can be
pretty brutal on anything light-weight or rare.

The good news here is that you can clean small stuff up pretty well with a
minimal investment in a "hobbyist" sandblaster ( I got my current one for
less than $60 Canadian) and a small compressor running on normal household
current.

Sorry for such a long posting, but I went through quite a process to
discower this, and I suppose I'm not the only one who has wrestled with
this. If I casn save someone from going down a couple of blind alleys, or
saving up to get amuch bigger compresoonly to find it doesn't solve their
problem, then, to me, it's worth being thought long-winded.

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:00:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated

alice@atd.crane.navy.mil wrote:
> LR Listers,
> I have a few questions.  I have been seeking a Land Rover for a
> couple of years.  My favorite is a 2A 109 PU, but they are hard to
> find nearby.  Last Saturday, I test drove a '73 series 3 88 at a LR
> dealer in Louisville KY.  It drove with more pep than I was led to
> expect: 2.25 petrol (68k miles), Weber single barrel, 15 inch wheels,
> overdrive. I do not know if it will tow a small 2k lbs trailer, so
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 62 lines)]
> I appreciate your comments.
> Mark

As others have stated stay away from this one. If you can buy it as 
a Project donor with the intention of fitting a new frame for around 
$2500 then OK. It shows signs of having been cobbled together.
Never buy a Land Rover where the "undercoating" obscures the frame, this 
can only mean someone wants to hide something.
PS I have a really nice Series 111 for sale :)
John and Muddy

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 11:36:25 -0500
Subject: Re[2]: US 130's???!?!?! 

>The frame I would build.  For the drive train I would probably find a 
>surplus Army 1ton GMC.
>Ahhhh sure is nice to have dreams.  Now back to the project at hand. 
>Aloha
>Pete

That reminds me. How is the building of the new frame coming along?

Dave

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From: "David R. Bobeck"<dbobeck@ushmm.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 11:37:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Dunsfold's Lawn Sale? 

.Can anyone provide the dates for the Dunsfold's event ?

>Karl K. Kurz, N1JZY

ditto on that please...

later
dave

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:08:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Air compressor question

Bryan Colleran wrote:
> As far as compressors and their abilty to get different jobs done, I have
> found that very satisfactory sandblasting performance con be coaxed out of
> even a quite small compressor.
> I currently use an ancient 1 HP single action Sears compressor with about a
> 5-gallon reservoir to sandblast smallish stuff (up to about the size of a
> breakfast). The limiting factor using the technique I describe below is not
> the compressor, but the size of the booth I'm using, which is a plywood
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 67 lines)]
> saving up to get amuch bigger compresoonly to find it doesn't solve their
> problem, then, to me, it's worth being tho

What you describe is known as a Spot Blaster and can be used effectively
with quite a small compressor. As You say it can get very tedious
refilling the small resevoir of sand but if you have the time to spend
a good job can be done. Some spot blasters are available with a vacuum
cleaner hood to connect to a shopvac to stop the usual mess caused by
 sand blasting.
John and Muddy

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:10:31 -0800
Subject: Re:Dunsfold's Lawn Sale?

Karl Kurz <kkurz@acad.umm.maine.edu> wrote:

"Can anyone provide the dates for the Dunsfold's event?"

According to the last newsletter:

March 20/21 is the leaf spring weekend with many parts for sale at
"unrepeatable" prices.
April 11 is an off road fun day for Dunsfold Collection Memebers only.
Sept 11/12 is the next Collection "Open Weekend"

There is a modest Dunsfold website at www.roverstuff/dunsfold/home.htm
No map but there are GPS coords.  Dunsfold is NOT on email so you will have
to write, call or fax to contact them.  I think overseas memberships are 25
gbp but I am not sure.

Regards,

John

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From: John <jhong@flex.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:24:00 -0800
Subject: Re: [D90] Dire need/ Buick V8

Hi All,

Well I've been going up the learning curve on the 3.5 liter V8 and have
been told that asking for parts for a Buick 215 is the thing to do in
Domestic autoparts stores.   I just ordered a complete engine gasket set
(less intake manifold gasket) from <gasp> Pepboys for $70ish bucks (feltpro
I think.)  I wonder what I get? :-)  Seriously, I don't expect all the
gaskets to work/fit but most of them should, especially the big metal ones.

So if the regular LR shops don't have what you need there is hope.  Several
people on the lists below have reported much success going to speed/racing
shops under the guise of preparing a race motor and getting VERY
enthusiastic assistance.

There is a email list for this engine family,  I've only been on it for a
week.  Not a lot of traffic but there seem to be some pretty knowledgeable
people on it.  Bear in mind, the perspective seems to be from the car world
vs LRs.

>You can send mail to <Majordomo@autox.team.net> with the following
>command in the body of your email message:
>subscribe buick-rover-v8
>A web based majordomo interface is currently being evaluated, try out
>  http://www.team.net/cgi-bin/majordomo
>This is the info message for the buick-rover-v8@autox.team.net list.  It is
>intended as a forum for email discussion by those interested in the Buick
>alloy V8, as well as the more recent Rover engines.

Also there is a rover car list at

http://lists.ccdata.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=rovernet&text_mode=0
 
and an archive at  http://misc.nipltd.com/P6ROC/RoverNet.nsf

Several rover cars have the same 3.5 V8 used in LRs so there is a fair
amount of talk on this subject.

John

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:20:36 +0000
Subject: Thanks Test Drive Comments

Dave and Others,
You are quite correct ...I do not have $12k to spend on a Rover.

But it is the only driving example I have been able to find within 
a couple of hours radius ...and I just happened to be going to 
Louisville anyway.  Yes, you are keen to spot that I was 
disingenuous to the salesman, but I can't imagine him allowing
me a drive if I tell him I actually have less than half his ask.

Thanks for all of your comments.
Mark
 

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:26:38 -1000
Subject: Re: A question about tire size[multipart mime alternative 6 lines 
deleted.]

>To sum up your choice of 32-9.50-15 is a good one, go for it.
>John and Muddy

Thanks  :-)
Just what I was hoping for
Pete

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From: alice@atd.crane.navy.mil
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:39:11 +0000
Subject: Diamonds No Thanks!

LROs,
Actually, the "new" D90 "diamond edition" that I saw at $49500
is not my cup of tea (even if I could afford it).  In fact,everything 
in the current LR showroom was not my cup of tea. I don't mean to 
complain, but I really did not want to associate myself with the 
people looking at new Rovers.  These people were too well dressed, 
didn't seem to flinch at $30-40k prices, had no clue of the heritage 
of these vehicles, "what's a manual transmission" (or a manual 
anything in their life), "will this mess up my hair, break a 
fingernail", etc... you guys surely have thrashed this before. 

In short, most people were after the latest Discovery or whatever. 
And that is not what I care for, personal preference here.  In fact, 
I had a problem with all the diamond plate glitz on the D90 ...the 
only "plate" I want is the fine patina of sand blasted aluminium 
showing through here and there ...now I'll go back under my rock. 
Mark

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:42:48 -1000
Subject: Re: Re[2]: US 130's???!?!?! 

>>The frame I would build.  For the drive train I would probably find a
>>surplus Army 1ton GMC.
>>Ahhhh sure is nice to have dreams.  Now back to the project at hand.
>>Aloha
>>Pete
>That reminds me. How is the building of the new frame coming along?
>Dave

I would love to say its all done, unfortunately my company just got another
contract that I am doing the programing on.  It's a two month deal, 30-40
hours a week, plus a full load of classes at school.  Guess the work could
be considered a good thing, means I will be able to get the trany parts
soon.

However, I did get the steel, have all the pieces cut.  Don't know if I
mentioned it before, but I made a cardboard mock up of the 3x5 channel so I
could check all the angles and stuff versus the original.  I think I will be
able to start welding over spring break (last week in March).  Taking
pictures and will notify the list when its done and the pictures are
posting.  Still think I will have the frame done, trany rebuilt, front axle
rebuilt and the whole vehicle back together and on the road by September
(knock on wood and all)
Pete

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:46:39 -1000
Subject: Re: Test Drive Comments Appreciated 

>The frame was caved in at the points where the
>dealer had lifted the vehicle.

I agree with the others on this one.  WAY overpriced with that frame.  I was
once told that if you find a vehicle with all the items and a nice straight
body, but the frame is rusted don't spend more then 2k$ on it.
Pete

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From: Garrick Brett Olsen <gbolsen@allina.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 12:09:20 PST
Subject: Used Prices?

I was just wondering if there is a standard formula for computing 
the Used price of a part.

Example:  A Rovers North steel rim is about $90.  I just bought a 
30+ yr old rim with the expected grease, rust and chipped paint and 
paid $20.  Probably a fair price.  

So is 20-25% a typical fair price for these durable, rustable parts? 
 (I am planning on making an offer for a LR tow hitch)

-Rik
Name: Garrick Brett Olsen
E-mail: Garrick Brett Olsen <gbolsen@allina.com>
Date: 2/22/99
Time: 12:09:20 PM

This message was sent by Chameleon 

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From: Todd Schlemmer <nullman@ptinet.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 10:52:21 -0800
Subject: Re: A question about tire size

At 10:11 AM 2/19/99 -1000, you wrote:
>Aloha all.
>Nope don't want to know "what's the largets size I can fit with out
>rubbing". Don't care about that or raising the center of gravity.
>I am more interested in how large the stock stock (non salsbury) axles can
>handle.  The recent thread on building a series one dragster had me
>thinking.
>I know that as tires get larger they creat a greater rolling resistance
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
>Mahalo,
>Pete

which BFG comes in a >> 32 << x 950?  I have only seen 33 or 31 x 950.
33's are 32.7 inches in diam.

bboT
Todd Schlemmer
Vashon Is., WA

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:17:48 -1000
Subject: Re: A question about tire size

>which BFG comes in a >> 32 << x 950?  I have only seen 33 or 31 x 950.
>33's are 32.7 inches in diam.

The BFG Mudder comes in a 32-9.50x15
They may not be a 'stand' size but they are available through any BFG
dealer.  May take a few days to get em from a warehouse, but don't let em
try and tell you it 'cost more' to do so.  NFG does have a website too.
Pete

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:25:49 -1000
Subject: Re: A question about tire size

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From: Garrick Brett Olsen <gbolsen@ALLINA.COM>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 99 13:41:57 PST
Subject: Jack and stand...  Fuel Pump

John and Muddy,

Thanks for the write in about the stand placement, but that 
was where I was putting my bottle jack!  Can they fit side 
by side?  Is there a better spot for the jack than under the 
middle of the spring?  

ALSO do I have to prime an electric fuel pump?  Clearly not 
original or LR, but if it's working, I'd use it and carry a 
real spare.  I had to drain out rust and replace an in line 
filter.  how can I test the pump?

Rik
Name: Garrick Brett Olsen
E-mail: Garrick Brett Olsen <gbolsen@allina.com>
Date: 2/22/99
Time: 1:41:58 PM

This message was sent by Chameleon 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:00:09 -0800
Subject: RE: Jack and stand...  Fuel Pump

I've supported my Rover with jack stands placed directly on the frame.  you
have to jack a little higher as the suspension will sag.  

First off, if I were you, I'd get a high lift jack.  They seem to be made
for Land Rovers (or vice versa).  Bottle jacks just don't have enough lift
range.

Best Regards,

Paul Quin
1961 SII 88
Victoria, BC  Canada

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:15:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: FWH elimination/Nigels Disorder

Hey, hold on there, since when has Nigel's Disease become a full
fledged "Disorder"?  It's not like he's some sort of mutant
or nuthin' (no 383 stroker in here!!).

Dave innocently lays some blame:
***
Hmmmm. I wonder if Russsel Dushin's Nigel is having this problem
***

Which is apparently in reference to Bill Rice's leaky FWHs...

Uh, the answer is a surprising but emphatic "NO".  Don't really know
why...he leaks everywhere else.  Perhaps it's because I absolutely refuse
to put new gaskets in there...and the old ones (at least five years
old and probably been through a dozen removals to replace the race and hub
seal again and again and again and again) are in..get this..no
fewer than three pieces each.  They work great!

In truth, the real reason they don't leak is 'cause the hub seals
do...it's that or all the dirt that flocks to the surface of the FWHs
seals 'em up tight.

r"pump before braking"d/ni"and don't waRsh yer truuuck"ge

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From: krebsfam@mail.iex.net (Jim Krebs)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:27:56 -0600
Subject: Alternator Ills

I have a puzzler for the list.  I am converting my 1963 Series IIA from a
generator to an alternator.  The alternator I purchased is an
internally-regulated GM unit.  Having read several "how-tos" I did the
following: made a new harness of one 10 ga. and two 16 ga. wires; ran the
10 ga. wire to a new ammeter I installed; ran a wire from the "R" terminal
on the alternator to the bottom of the fuse block; ran another wire from
the "F" terminal on the alternator to the yellow wire formerly hooked to
the voltage regulator; disconnected the wires from terminals A and A1 of
the regulator and tied them all together and disconnected and insulated all
the other wires from the old regulator.

My problem: the charge warning light shines brightly all the time and the
alternator does not charge (12.5 volts across the battery).  I took the
alternator to the store where I bought it and had it tested.  It put out
14.5 volts and passed all their tests.  After reinstallation, I tried
wiring the output directly to the + battery cable and wiring the "R"
terminal to the battery side of the starter switch.  Same results - the
light shines brightly and the battery doesn't charge.

Any ideas?

Jim Krebs
1966 109SW
1963 88SW

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:26:55 +0100
Subject: Re: Diamonds No Thanks!

here! here!

Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:33:53 +0100
Subject: New frame

I have more or less decided to replace the frame on my 109 - not because
the original frame is unsaveable, but because after several days work
repairing it and  after spending 5-6000 kroner on a sandblast and
metalising job, I'll have spent nearly the cost of a new glavanised
frame to get a 22 year old frame which is only zinc plated on the
outside and which still can rust from the inside - seems like a poor
return on investment.

Here in denmark that means changing the frame, rebuilding the car, and
taking it to MT inspection, after which i have to pay 30% of what the
customs and excise people think the car is worth as a frame duty - which
in the case of a stock 1976 109 with over 400,000 km on the clock and no
fancy extras like turbo or sun-roofs will mean a valuation of around kr
15,000 - so a small duty (which i am bitterly against in principle - but
not enough to say no to a good rebuild)

The frame takes a week to make in the UK, then a few days to get to
denmark - in three weeks or so I should be building up again!
Let hope this works....

Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:36:57 +0100
Subject: Nigels Disorder

Nigel's syndrome
Nigel's disease
Nigel's disorder
Nigel's sickness
Nigel's condition
Paranormalia Nigealis

What's in a name?

(Any more suggestions Nate?)

Maybe we should call it "Russell's syndrome" or the "Dushin Disorder" ?

:-)
-- 
Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:38:48 -0800
Subject: RE: Nigels Disorder

'  We're only making plans for Nigel. '

XTC  around ... oooh ...  '82?

Paul in Victoria.

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:46:56 EST
Subject: Re: Nigels Disorder

In a message dated 2/22/99 3:36:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
channel6@post2.tele.dk writes:

> Nigel's syndrome
>  Nigel's disease
>  Nigel's disorder
>  Nigel's sickness
>  Nigel's condition
>  Paranormalia Nigealis

Nigel's paranoia ?
Nigelism?
Nigalgia?
Nigelitis? (Acute vs. Chronic)
Nigel's dysfunction
Nigel's buy-polar disorder?
Nigelosis?

-N

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From: Ray Harder <ccray@showme.missouri.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:09:58 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: A question about tire size

On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, Peter Hope wrote:
.> Subject: Re: A question about tire size

.> Let me try this again.  I do not know of a BFG 31-950.  They do make the
> 30-950x15 and the '33'--950x15.  Sorry about the 32 typo, twice.  The 32's
.> are a 32-11.50x15.
> Pete

the 950 refers to width -- what is the ramifications of putting
this on a 5-1/2 width rim (i think that is the width of the
88 rims on the us vehicles)...

Sincerely,

Ray Harder 

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From: Benjamin Smith <bens@psasolar.colltech.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:16:15 -0600
Subject: Re: Importing a Defender 90 to California

  If the DOT allowed them to be sold here, then there MUST be test data
  somewhere: otherwise, how'd they know if they were unsafe????? Besides, at the
  initial time of importation, the airbags were not required - thus any vehicle
  that can otherwise comply with the requirements in effect AT THE TIME the D-90
  was being imported by LRNA, could legally be brought in by a private party -
  wether LRNA likes it, or not!

	Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  Since vehicle manufacuturers
make many changes per year on a production, just because some 1997 D90s
were crash tested, doesn't mean that all 1997 D90s are the same.  So DOT
will require that you get a letter from Land Rover stating that all 1997
D90s were built the same.  Land Rover will tell you to get such a letter from
LRNA.  LRNA will tell you to piss off.  With out the letter you can't prove
that a random 1997 D90 meets the specs without demonstrating that by
crashing 3 of them for the DOT.

	The only Defender that there are specs to bring into the US and
how to bring it up to legal standards are for 1993 D110s.

	Oh and the steps that LNRA did to bring the D90s to spec is a
trade secret that you must get from them.  DOT won't tell you even if you
try using a FOIA.  It's been tried.

Ben
--
Benjamin Smith                   "If I were running such a contest, I would
Collective Technologies          specifically eliminate any entries from Ben 
    (a pencom company)           involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. 
Land-  : '72 Series III 88"      He'd drive it up the Amazon Basin for a half
 -Rover: '94 Discovery 5-Spd     can of Jolt and a stale cookie." --K. Archie

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:18:52 -0700
Subject: Re: Diamonds No Thanks!

<<These people were too well dressed,>>

Don't judge so quickly. Those could have been Series owners incognito :-)

<<didn't seem to flinch at $30-40k prices, had no clue of the heritage
of these vehicles, "what's a manual transmission" (or a manual
anything in their life), "will this mess up my hair, break a
fingernail", etc... you guys surely have thrashed this before. >>

Oh yeah, gotta lay it on thick to get through the "screening process" and
out on a test drive. Once they take the bait we hop in and calmly manouver
the new "Series II" (Disco) into the closest patch of woods, rev up that V8
and scare the pants off the salesman. With said salesman's hands locked
into the seat sides from the fear of venturing off-tarmac, we calmly pull
into the dealership, Disco caked with mud. After handing over the keys, we
walk a few blocks down the street, hop in a real Series II and head over to
the rental shop to return the clothes and pick up our coveralls. Oh sorry,
was I thinking out loud again :-)

 *************************************
* joseph and sidney		      *
* missoula, mt			      *
* curator of the "Series Shed"        *
* http://jbroach.interspeed.net/rover *
 *************************************

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:54:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Nigel's Disorder

Adrian busts my chops:

** 
Maybe we should call it "Russell's syndrome"
**

No, no, something else entirely...'s what surprises the wife
each morning!

Boink!

**
or the "Dushin Disorder" ?
**

And that's what keeps the peace in the bathroom.  Runs in the
family, but I ain't got it nearly as bad as the rest of 'em...

r"'cause I drink tea"d/ni"but Fred doesn't"ge

ps Rover content: Adrian, buy the frame and pay the tax.

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:54:29 EST
Subject: Re: Importing a Defender 90 to California

In a message dated 99-02-22 16:19:00 EST, you write:

<< Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.  Since vehicle manufacuturers
 make many changes per year on a production, just because some 1997 D90s
 were crash tested, doesn't mean that all 1997 D90s are the same.  So DOT
 will require that you get a letter from Land Rover stating that all 1997
 D90s were built the same.  Land Rover will tell you to get such a letter from
 LRNA.  LRNA will tell you to piss off.  With out the letter you can't prove
 that a random 1997 D90 meets the specs without demonstrating that by
 crashing 3 of them for the DOT.
 >>

Simple solution: get a parts catalogue! If you look in it, you'll note there
are no structural changes in the chassis/body throughout production, aside
from the roll cage. Anything other than those can be bought locally. Crash
testing is mainly for structural purposes, and so long as there's no changes
there, then there's no problem.

Of course like I said, bringing in 'parts', you don't need to passify DOT -
only Customs. If I were to do this, I'd know what I was bringing in, so LRNA
wouldn't have to worry about any future lawsuits.

Charles

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[spamkill: [Ii][Nn][fF][Oo]@ input: %s]	 From: "john kriboo" 
<info@dmt-2000.demon.nl>

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:41:14 +0100
Subject: Re: Nigel's Disorder

But if I buy the frame and then tell Russell D. Then Nigel will want a
new frame, then we'll all want new frames, then this will cost us all a
bomb. Until now the most expensive Nigelism has been a leaky radiator or
jammed clutch, but if Nigelitis moves into the chassis-region, then
we're talking about an epidemic which would be expensive. All this from
an e-mail or two?

I would propose the following taxonomy-

Electronically Transmitted Nigel Chassis Deficiency Syndrome (ETNCDS)
or
Nigelly Inspired Chassis Syndrome (NICS)

Better I guess than a bad attack of SSSS (Silly and Sorry Sollihul
Sickness)
or even TD (Terminal DisLUCASy)

:-)
 
Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Bryan P. Boyd" <bryanboyd@nextnewmedia.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:55:59 +0000
Subject: Series Insurance

Recently, I acquired a 1960 Series II in brutal condition.  Thanks to
the guidance of my Rover mentor, Pat Young, I have embarked on the road
to restoration.

Obviously, one of my first calls was to my insurance agency.  They were
completely mystified as to what type of vehicle I actually purchased.
They kept asking leading questions such as, "Is this a modified off road
vehicle?"  A humorous question considering the poor beast doesn't
currently have seats.  In the end, and after a week of head scratching,
they were able to "temporarily" issue me liability coverage.   (I feel
as if they were compelled to do so since I have a more expensive car
insured with them, and the Rover is replacing a second vehicle I also
had covered with the same company.)  They claim, that due to the age of
the vehicle, I must take my truck to one of their offices for a safety
inspection.

Although the insurance agent is unaware that the truck is missing seats
and other vital equipment (I'm waiting on a parts delivery), I am
concerned, that even with the addition of these parts, the inspector
will be viewing a 1960 LR through 1999 eyes.  The agency has also
informed me that, once this first inspection is complete, I will need to
take the truck across LA, to their approved garage, for a valuation.
After the valuation, then the insurance company will issue comprehensive
coverage.  As it is, they are unable to quote a rate.  Now to my
questions:

1) Is this typical?

2) Assuming I pass their safety inspection, how is a garage, with no
experience estimating valuations of Series Rovers, going to establish a
value?

3) Has anyone on the list had any experience challenging a valuation?
(We all know that aesthetically challenged Rovers have value
disproportionate to their appearance.)

4) How often do you have to get a new appraisal of your vehicle?  Every
$2,000, or more, worth of improvements?

5) The insurance company seemed obsessed with discovering whether or not
I intended to take the Rover off road; does this type of activity
violate the terms of most coverage?

6) I hope I never have to discover the answer to this question myself,
but has anyone needed to collect on their comprehensive?  Did the
insurance company honor their valuation?  What were the problems, that
the rest of us might avoid, in dealing with a claim?

Finally, I understand that this is not a venue for legal issues, nor am
I seeking qualified legal advice.  All I'm looking for is some
experiences, impressions, and clarification from fellow Rover
enthusiasts.

Kindest regards,

Bryan Boyd

1960 SII 88

"Do not worry.  You have always written before and you will write now.
All you have to do is write one true sentence.  Write the truest
sentence that you know." Ernest Miller Hemingway, A Moveable Feast

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:11:17 -0800
Subject: RE: Series Insurance [multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.

Fist off, I'd recommend collecting a few classified adds with a range of
prices for Series Rovers.  The Hemmings Motor News usually has one or two
pages worth of Series Land Rovers for sale in the US.  Take these with you
and show them to the appraiser.

Back in the sixties, Land Rovers were not that uncommon in California.  (not
as common as Jeeps but they did sell quite a few) So your insurance agent
should be able to dig up a classification somewhere.  Shop around.

When I went to insure mine last summer, I found that the records indicated
that it was a 'Rover Station Wagon'.  I had to 'force' the clerk to dig up a
proper classification.  Now it says Land Rover S2.  

Out of curiosity, what is the Serial Number of your rig?  I got the birth
certificate for mine from LR Britain and noticed that it's 'sister ship',
the one next on the assembly line manifest was shipped to Los Angeles... way
back in December 1960.

Paul Quin
1961 SII 88 S/N 144101239
Victoria, BC  Canada

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From: Nigel M Duffin <nigel@harlikwin.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:16 +0000
Subject: TAX ON FUEL 8/10's THE COST.

Hello everyone,
                I have just got in from the local service station and
while I was there I picked up a leaflet by the AA saying that IN EVERY
£10 UKP YOU SPEND ON FUEL £8 UKP IS TAX.

I knew there was a lot of TAX hidden in the cost of fuel but 8/10's the
cost.

Well if on reading this you feel like I do then 

email: fairdeal@theaa.com

Write: The AA Motorists' Policy Unit
        Norfolk House Priestley Road
        Basingstoke
        RG24 9NY.

For further information 
-- 
Nigel M Duffin

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:54:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Used Prices?

Rik You cannot work on a percentage. Some parts - tailgates for example -
are harder to find and fetch higher percentage prices. $20is a fair price
for a used rim Ray

----------

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:56:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Kodiak Heater

I have a good used one $50.00 call me at 1-888-880-2600 Ray

----------
> From: Roy H Caldwell <kiotee@mcn.net>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Kodiak Heater
> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 5:36 AM
> Has anybody found a reasonable replacement for the heater core on the =
> Kodiak Heater?  My has a leak and I really don't want to spend 200 bucks

=

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[digester: Removing section of:  Content-Type: multipart/alternative; ]
From: "Bryan P. Boyd" <bryanboyd@nextnewmedia.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:58:57 +0000
Subject: Re: Series Insurance [multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.

Paul,

Thanks for the advice.  My SII was born on April 4, 1960 as #144003807 and
later shipped to Los Angeles.  When Rover sent your tracking information, did
you happen to notice how long it took them to manufacture your truck?  Mine was
in on April 4, and out on April 12, while most of the other vehicles on my list
were in and out within two days.  Strange, perplexing and altogether British.

Kindest regards,

Bryan Boyd

1960 SII 88

"Do not worry.  You have always written before and you will write now.  All you
have to do is write one true sentence.  Write the truest sentence that you
know." Ernest Miller Hemingway, A Moveable Feast

Paul Quin wrote:

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[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 Return-Path: <pur818r@yahoo.com>
[spamkill: @yahoo\. input: %s]	 From: pur818r@yahoo.com
Double Click On This Link: http://209.212.45.129

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From: jimfoo@uswest.net
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:35:12 -0700
Subject: Re: Alternator Ills

Jim Krebs wrote:
 
= I have a puzzler for the list.  I am converting my 1963 Series IIA
from a
= generator to an alternator.  The alternator I purchased is an
= internally-regulated GM unit.  Having read several "how-tos" I did the
= following: made a new harness of one 10 ga. and two 16 ga. wires; ran
the
= 10 ga. wire to a new ammeter I installed; ran a wire from the "R"
terminal
= on the alternator to the bottom of the fuse block; ran another wire
from
= the "F" terminal on the alternator to the yellow wire formerly hooked
to
= the voltage regulator; 

  I haven't heard of F and R terminals on a GM unit. Mine are labled 1
and 2. F probably stands for "field", and should probably be wired to
the fuse block or ig switch. The R terminal is probably the one to go to
the yellow wire.
  When I installed my alternator, I wired it wrong and somehow fried
something inside. It is now a 1 wire alternator, but I must bring the
rpm's up for a second before it starts charging. Are you testing yours
just at an idle? Try revving it for a second to see what it does. You
might also ask the folks who tested it just to make sure which wire goes
where, just incase I'm wrong. Good luck.

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:46:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Jack and stand...  Fuel Pump

Garrick Brett Olsen wrote:
> John and Muddy,
> Thanks for the write in about the stand placement, but that
> was where I was putting my bottle jack!  Can they fit side
> by side?  Is there a better spot for the jack than under the
> middle of the spring?
> ALSO do I have to prime an electric fuel pump?  Clearly not

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 14 lines)]
> filter.  how can I test the pump?
> Rik

You could put your bottle jack under the diff as it offset enough
to lift that side and that would give space to place the jack stand
under the spring. I use this method myself with my floorjack.
Your electric pump will not need priming. If you wish to test it off the
vehicle you can do this by using a pair of wires connected to a car
battery. If the pump has one connection then go from here to the +
of the battery and the body of the pump to the - of the battery.
If there are 2 wires coming out of the pump the black one would probably
be the -. To see if it actually pumps attach a hose to the inlet fitting
and put it in a little not too inflamable liquid (perhaps diesel or
furnace oil but not gas)
John and Muddy

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From: Jeff Goldman <roverboy@gis.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:14:12 -0500
Subject: PCV theory...

  Why is a PCV valve one way (allowing for flow into the carb neck, I assume)?

Jeff Goldman
Boston, MA
http://www.gis.net/~roverboy

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:22:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Defender widow-makers

> It was my understanding that the only way LR could bring the 110, and
> subsequently the 90s, was to make them crash-safe by US standards -
> including
> the famed roll-over test.

I work in new vehicle concepts and am somewhat familar with regs, and
I'm not aware of any current "roll-over" tests required by Federal regs.
There is a static roof crush test, but I don't recall if it would have
applied to a Defender.

> The Defender failed it. Nevermind that Defenders are
> so bottom heavy that they couldn't roll over the required amount of
> times the
> test insisted upon - they just kind of flopped over onto their sides -
> a law
> is a law in the litiginous US and thus was born the roll cage, dubbed
> "the
> safari kit" or something absurd like that.

A good story, but it sounds like the automotive equivalent of "urban
folklore".

I suspect the NAS roll cage was driven by concerns over the ability to
defend the design in litigation.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:11:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Vehicle Comparisons

>         [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)]
>> exposure
>>  to one of those hellspawn....
>Not a cornbinder fan?

  I believe the proper slang is '13-letter shit spreader'.  That's what we
called them over the CB when I was truck driving! ;)

   Scott C. Wickham Jr.
     Pittsburgh, Pa.
     1972 Ser III
     Zebra truck
     

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From: car4doc <car4doc@concentric.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:04:44 -0600
Subject: Re: NADA 6 cyl EXhaust valves Help!

Hi All,
 Well thanks to the list readers some exhaust values were located.  The
engine in question seems to have little wrong with other then the burned
valve.  The bores themselves have little wear so work is progressing to
cleaning, port & polish the valves.  Anyone know what would cause a
seemingly low mileage engine to burn the number four exhaust valve?  I
did not see the original car or exhaust system.  So it is just
theories.  knowing little about these engines can anyone fill me in on
their fault or habits.

Thanks again for the help.

Rob Davis_Chicago

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:30:58
Subject: Re: Jack Stand;  Bonnet mount

	There are lock down arms for the 15" wheel and ones for the 16" wheel.
The 15" are longer because of a greater offset.  The stock bolts should be
long for either tire, however.  If I recall right, my tire bolts have a
hole drilled for a cotter pin to prevent then from being screwed or
vibrating all the way out and getting lost.  Check and see if yours has the
hole, if not they could be after market.  The threads on the bolts get
buggered from vibration if not screwed in most of the way when a tire is
not fitted.  

Aloha Peter

At 12:52 PM 2/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Garrick Brett Olsen wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I had a little time with the Landie (1961 SerII SWB) this weekend!! Of

course that means more
>	 [ truncated by lro-lite (was 21 lines)]
>>  Where should I put the right side axle stand?
>> -Rik
>You can safely put the jack stand right under the spring between the U
>bolt nuts.
>The 15 inch rim has more offset than the 16 inch one for the 88 so 
>longer hold down bolts were used on the hood spare tire mounts.
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 13 lines)]
>way up.
>John and Muddy

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:41:11
Subject: Re: Unplugging steering relay

	There seems to be little rhyme or reason as to how stuck the relay will
be.  I have had the easiest time getting the relay out of thoroughly rusted
frames.  One frame I pulled one out of had the horns rusted and missing all
the way back past the spring hanger and a bulkhead so bad I removed it
without loosening a bolt.  The relay came out with a little pressure from a
jack and a few light taps with a hammer.  The one in my 1970 also came out
without a fuss and it is not rust free.
	My '65 109 pu was pristine without a speck of rust anywhere and only
30,000 miles on the clock.  Seemed like it would have been a piece of cake
to remove the relay, but no!!!  Have a permanently dented cross member from
all the beating I had to do to get the bugger out and I spent more than a
week dousing it with penetrating oil and beating to get it to move at all.

Aloha Peter.  
At 11:14 PM 2/21/99 +0100, you wrote:
>I didn't believe it. After all the stories wartning me about having to
>fight to the death with my steering relay, I just undid the bolts above
>and below and "unplugged" it - it's been in at least 10 years, and it
>came out like a treat - no banging, no pressure - just a slight lift
>with a small crowbar. A little crud round the outside of the relay
>barrel, and no rust or holes in the frame.

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 17 lines)]
>Cheers...
>Adrian Redmond

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From: CIrvin1258@aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:52:37 EST
Subject: Re: Series Insurance[multipart mime alternative 6 lines deleted.]

In a message dated 99-02-22 17:59:31 EST, you write:

<< I am
 concerned, that even with the addition of these parts, the inspector
 will be viewing a 1960 LR through 1999 eyes.  The agency has also
 informed me that, once this first inspection is complete, I will need to
 take the truck across LA, to their approved garage, for a valuation.
 After the valuation, then the insurance company will issue comprehensive
 coverage.  As it is, they are unable to quote a rate.  Now to my
 questions:
 
 1) Is this typical?>>

...Nope, but when I got insurance for my SD-1, they couldn't find it listed
anywhere! One agency (20th Century) gave me a quote for a Range Rover (!?!?!?
They weren't even in the USA in 1980!), another gave up, and the folks I ended
up with, listed it as a P6B!
 
 <<2) Assuming I pass their safety inspection, how is a garage, with no
 experience estimating valuations of Series Rovers, going to establish a
 value?>>
 
They'll have a professional appraiser look at it: this could turn out to your
advantage: I had a MGB-GT that got hit 10 years ago, the appraiser came out to
look at it, appraised it at $4000 (!!!!!!...the car had over a gallon of Bondo
on it - cleverly hidden under a nice coat of One-Day paint), and gave me a
check after deducting $200 for buying it back from them as salvage!)

<< 3) Has anyone on the list had any experience challenging a valuation?
 (We all know that aesthetically challenged Rovers have value
 disproportionate to their appearance.)>>

Once: with a 1962 TR-4: They claimed that since the car had nothing more than
a coat of primer, that it was ONLY worth $200, but a running TR-4 at the time
(1986) was over $3500, regardless of what it looked like - so long as it
wasn't rusty.
 
 <<4) How often do you have to get a new appraisal of your vehicle?  Every
 $2,000, or more, worth of improvements?>>
 
Can't answer this one, except to say, the more you spend on it, the more it's
worth, and the more you'll pay...
 
<<5) The insurance company seemed obsessed with discovering whether or not
 I intended to take the Rover off road; does this type of activity
 violate the terms of most coverage?>>

Not unless you tell them in writing that you won't, but later wipe it out on
Santiago's Revenge!
 
 <<6) I hope I never have to discover the answer to this question myself,
 but has anyone needed to collect on their comprehensive?  Did the
 insurance company honor their valuation?  What were the problems, that
 the rest of us might avoid, in dealing with a claim?>>

Can't answer this one, either.
 
<< Finally, I understand that this is not a venue for legal issues, nor am
 I seeking qualified legal advice.  All I'm looking for is some
 experiences, impressions, and clarification from fellow Rover
 enthusiasts.
 
 >>

No problem.

Charles

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From: "john kriboo" <john@dmt-2000.demon.nl>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:54:54 +0100
Subject:  series III stage one

Hi LROs,

I have some series III stage one related questions:

1) what is the original tyre and rim size for this vehicle (year 1981)
2) is the chassis different from the (former) series III
3) how to check the proper functioning of the diff. lock

Some details of the car:

LR series III stage one  5 door station (12 seater)
fitted with a Ford 2.5 direct injection diesel and LT95 gearbox.

regards,

John

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:25:21 +0100
Subject: How many can a SIII 109 seat?

I have a cyrptic question regarding the seating capacity of a 109.

Here in denmark there are special rules regarding import duty and
registration terms for vehicles. We have white number plates and yellow
number plates. Generally speaking vehicles with yellow number plates are
intended for business use (though private persons may have them) - the
road tax is cheaper than white plates, but there must only be seats in
the front. Many saloon cars - including range rovers, are registered as
yellow plate vehicles, with only seats in the front, to avoid the
exhorbitant imort duties and road taxes imposed on white plate vehicles.

White plate vehicles are the "normal" car - seats in the back - higher
road tax, exhorbitant import duty, more frequent MOT inspections - and
for 4WD vehicles even higher import duties. This is why we see so few
campers (RV's) here in Denmark.

There are some exceptions to this rule, the so called M2 status, which
allows business use of a yellow plate vehicle with what could be termed
"white plate priviledges" - handicap busses, circus canteen busses,
busses for travelling thespians and musicians - and location vehicles
for film and tv crews (thats us).

Not any vehicle can be classified as M2 status - it must be a vehicle
which under normal circumstances may be registered as a bus with at
least 10 seats. (This prevents to many wannabes using this exception to
get a range rover on the road for under a million kroner). Having
complied with this requirement, the M2 status allows the vehicle to be
modified (remove seats) so that it can be driven on an ordinary driving
license (instead of a PSV or bus license). But the criteria for M2
registration is apparently the number of seats.

I am considering re-registering my 109 as M2 status, as our company's
VWLT bus which has M2 status is useless in snow, mud and off road
conditions. This is a standard 3 door pickup/hardtop with windows
green-tub-on-the-back stock 109 and not a station wagon (That conversion
is not something I want to do right now - maybe another year). I do not
have bench seats in the rear but can easily fit them if needed to get M2
status.

So is there anyone out there with a 109 like mine, but with bench seats
in the back, who can tell me how many persons (adults - not boy scouts
wedged in to fill) can sit in the back.

If my memory serves me right, an 88 can seat 3 in the front and 4 in the
back (7 in all) and a 109 can sieat 3 in the front and 8 in the back (11
in all) - is this correct.

We are not talking about what is comfortable, or what offers comparable
safety to a Volvo, just what the "standard" is. We merely need to exceed
the three in the front threshold so that, once in a while, we can have a
couple or three persons in the back.

Doies anyone have one of those nifty Land Rover catalogues which shows
the seating configuration in question and which indicates the number os
seat places? Maybe you could fax/scan/e-mail this to me?

Thanks!

Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: "M. Tompkins" <mmglass@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 06:51:18 -0500
Subject: Re: How many can a SIII 109 seat?

Adrian Redmond wrote:

> back (7 in all) and a 109 can sieat 3 in the front and 8 in the back (11
> in all) - is this correct.

The 109 Station Wagons are classified as 12 seaters. Three in front,
three in the middle row and six in the back on the benches.

I can vaguely remember about a discussion where some tolls were higher
for vehicles with 12 or more seats (in the UK or Europe). Many
would remove the middle front seat and argue they had an 11-seater.
Any help from the other side of the pond?

Cheers,
Mike
1966 109" Hybrid Coiler Station Wagon
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/6623/
http://www.netcom.com/~mmglass/
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8365/

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