The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: "John Baker" <daddyo@loxinfo.co.th>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:14:42 +0700
Subject: Removing Tranny

I remember reading on an Australian web-page somewhere (sorry, lost the
URL), that some guy reckoned you could remove the transmission without
removing the seat box. There weren't any details, though. I can only
presume that he spilt the various transmission components in situ.

Not really relevant, but has anyone tried this??

I think it can be done. I recently removed my tranny by first taking out
the transfer case and output assy which is easily done. Then undid the
bolts holding the tranny to the engine and pulled it back. Couldn't pull it
out, not enough room, so I removed the pinion cover assy (correct name??)
and removed the bell housing, and then pulled the gearbox out. At least
that's how I recall it. For reinstalling I did raise the sit box as I
wanted to install the gearbox in one piece.
It may be possible to pull out the gear
box without disassembly, but I have a gear lock gizmo installed that
interfered with any possibility of doing that. 
John
Bangkok

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From: RoverNut@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:01:31 EST
Subject: re:side of road Series III

In a message dated 3/10/99 7:56:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, MAILER-
DAEMON@aol.com writes:

<< << Still, i want it!  :) Asking
  $2,200 O.B.O.  Needs much work!
  
  Was wondering if you knew of sources for buying a frame and/or repairing it.
  
  Am I crazy to even consider this?   >>
 
 I think I would work under the "OBO" frame of reference.
 If the truck is badly rusted out, it will cost you more to get it runningthan
 if you were to buy a LR that had a few patches, some dings, etc, but solid
 nonetheless, for a bit more.
 I'm not sure what the plow's worth, and maybe the engine and tranny are
great,
 but it sounds like a money pit. Bad frame is often followed by bad bulkhead.
 Add in springs and your at $3k just to get a rolling chasis. Add that to the
 $2.2k you'd spend on it and you've got $5200 to buy a truck with, and I'm
sure
 you could find a decent runner up in Canada for that.
 
 Good luck
 Alex Maiolo
 49 Series I
 95 Disco
  >>

--part0_921070893_boundary

	[Attachment  removed, was 32 lines.]	

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:15:15 -0400
Subject: Re: Spam killing

Kirk Hillman wrote:
> I have sent four messages to the LRO list and the major but I keep
> getting spam killed.  Hopefully someone will actually get to read this
> and do something about it.  It's not like I am trying to sell something,
> I just want to be loved... :^P
> Kirk Hillman and Banshee

Because so much spam comes from "hotmail" addresses the Major is quite
hostile to anyone  posting from a hotmail Email address. Try changing
your reply to address in your mail preferences.
JOhn

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:24:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Rear main seal - remove tranny or engine?

Jeff Goldman wrote:
>   Just discovered puddles left everywhere are mostly from the bellhouse
> plug opening which leads me to rear main seal. Drips when engine is running
> at moderate speeds. Nothing with it off (so it's not in the gearbox).
>   I have a removable transmission crossmember. So, is it easier to remove
> the engine or tranny to just replace this seal. It's enough of a puddle to
> warrant a replacement. Stupidly, and I knew this would come back to bite
> me, I didn't renew the seal when the engine was out a few months back!!
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
> Jeff Goldman
> Boston, MA

Well.... I am going to give you advise that is contrary to all the
others.
I have done main seals both ways and now I always remove the engine.
This
has nothing to do with the actual job of removing the engine or the
gearbox but the fact that the seal replacement is sooo much easier when
the engine is upside down on an engine stand. Those cork T pieces can
cause much grief when you are working on your back with bits of mud and
grease dropping in your eyes. You can also take the opportunity to check
on how your crankshaft bearing are doing.
John and Muddy
 PS some of the methods described to avoid removing the seat box seem
like
10 times more work that removing the box.

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From: John Cranfield <john.cranfield@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:28:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Kirks Idling again

>     I thought I had it licked, but I cannot get a solid idle on my
> SIIa.  Also, there is a fairly substantial hesitation when I give it
> some gas, and I don't mean putting the petal to the floor.  I have the
> 2-1/4 L petrol with a 2 bbl Weber carburetor.  I let it sit there for a
> while and just idle until it warmed up.  I noticed while sitting in the
> drivers seat a few things:
>             -an oscillation between 1000 and 1200 rpm in a frequency of
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 44 lines)]
> PS- I hope this goes through this time.  The major must think I am MR.
> SPAM, because he keeps killing my messages.

Kirk it sounds very much like you a vacuum leak. There are a number of
place where this is likely. 1. the carb to manifold connection, there
are 2 gaskets and a plastic isolation block. Look care fully at the
block as 
an undetected crack can cause problems.
2. The manifold to head gasket.
3. The intake manifold itself needs to checked for cracking.
4. It is possible that the brake servo is leaking either, externally
where
the white plastic elbow enters or where the master cylinder attaches, or
internally through the diaphragm  
The sucking sound you hear would support the idea that the problem is
with vacuum.
The valve cover either on or off would not cause such a sound.
John and Muddy

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:46:28 -0800
Subject: Re: Handcranking

From: Olafur Agust Axelsson <olafura@ti.is>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:05:44 +0000
Subject: Re: Handcranking

>I do alot of handcranking as the battery is always giving me a hard
time! - But I was wondering! - I find it odd that when cold the LR only
needs half a crank and it fires - but when its hot I have to go on and
on - maybe ten cranks before it fires up! - Its a petrol engine!
Someone told me that the pistonrings would most likely be shot and when
hot it has a lot of oil in the piston chambers!

No, it doesn't mean your rings are shot.  The engine is hard to start 
by hand crank when it's hot.  Mine has been that way since I bought 
it new.  Even on the electric starter it seems to take more cranking to 
get a hot engine to fire.  When it's cold, the engine fires the moment 
the starter begins to turn it over.  The cause may be that the 
hot engine leans out the fuel-air mixture during starting, making it more 
difficult to ignite until the mixture is enriched by the "fresh" mixture being 
pulled into the manifold by the rotation of the engine.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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From: Faye and Peter Ogilvie <ogilvi@hgea.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:35:45
Subject: Re: Rear main seal - remove tranny or engine?

	I'd pull the engine.  Getting the oil seal and bearing cap seals in
position while fighting gravity could be a major source of frustration.  I
found that getting both these seals in properly was one of the trickiest
parts of the rebuild and mine was on a stand with gravity working for me.  

Aloha Peter

At 11:46 PM 3/9/99 -0500, you wrote:

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:27:00 -0800
Subject: more tranny evolutions

Speaking of weird tranny removal, has anyone read that story about the 
Australian who removed, repaired and replaced his transmission 
singlehandedly at night in the midst of a raging flooded stream without  
spilling the oil? It must be right up there on the list of Really Cool 
Extemporaneous Engineering Exploits.  I hope I never am called to perform 
such feats...

Clinton

PS, is it just me or has LROI turned into a bloated, advert filled, content 
lacking, rehashed-old-articles rag?  I am letting my subscription lapse, at 
least until I can afford (and want) a Freelander or a checker plate 
Defender...

Probably am going to try out that new NA lr magazine for a year and see how 
it stacks up.

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:26:00 -0800
Subject: Tranny + floor removal

I think it can be done. I recently removed my tranny by first taking out
the transfer case and output assy which is easily done. Then undid the
bolts holding the ...............lock gizmo installed that
interfered with any possibility of doing that.

     This sounds like a lot of convoluted time consuming evolution to save 
     a couple of hours of seat box removal/reinstallation.  If I was this 
     adamant about not removing the seat box, I would enlist the help of 
     Mr. Angle Grinder and just cut off the transmission crossmember and 
     then reweld it once the job was done (or better, convert it to a 
     removable type for the next time the job is to be done).  Of course, 
     if I was going to do the latter, then I would probably take the seat 
     box off anyway to get better acess...
     
     It may be just me, but when I am dealing with large lumpish pieces of 
     metal that can mash me, I like to have as much room to play as 
     possible.  I have generally found that if I take the time to remove 
     various bits of in-the-way-metal from around the job I am doing, it 
     saves time in the long run, or at least reduces the amount of frikkin' 
     and frakkin' that is involved.  Besides, it then gives you a chance to 
     hit all those nuts and bolts with some anti seize so that the next 
     time you do the job they just grease off there.
     
     Keeping the above in mind, I will probably bruise my knuckles and make 
     my truck blush a bit when I try to remove the starter without removing 
     the wing first...
     
     On a different subject, has anyone ever replaced the door sills on a 
     109 pickup or an 88 with something slightly more substantial?  (I am 
     talking about the bits the floor and seat box bolts to).  I am betting 
     that some decent c-channel would make a much more robust connection in 
     this area.  Hell, even some folded aluminum foil might be stronger!
     
     Clinton "doesn't always practice what he preaches" Coates

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:17:49 EST
Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners

In a message dated 3/10/99 10:11:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ccoates@GOLDER.com writes:

      On a different subject, has anyone ever replaced the door sills on a 
      109 pickup or an 88 with something slightly more substantial?  (I am 
      talking about the bits the floor and seat box bolts to).  I am betting 
      that some decent c-channel would make a much more robust connection in 
      this area. >>
I'm launching into the same or similar project and would be interested in some
others experiences in this area.  My drivers side is exponentially worse than
the passenger (right) side, but I need to upgrade seatbelt attach while I'm
there.

Zack
Rusty 109

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From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:27:17 -0800
Subject: LROI was Re: more tranny evolutions

Clinton Coates wrote:

> PS, is it just me or has LROI turned into a bloated, advert filled, content
> lacking, rehashed-old-articles rag?

FWIW I recently moved and they couldn't seem to forward magazines or change my
address although they managed to send a subscription renewal to the old
address.  I probably won't renew.  LRW did manage to keep up and I prefer them
anyway.  I'm seriously considering subscribing to LRM (a bit more like LROI
than LRW).

Jeremy

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:31:18 -0800
Subject: RE: Tranny + floor removal

I have to say that I am a steadfast 'up through the floor' fan when it comes
to transmission removal.  'Off with the roof too,' I say.  I've spent quite
a few hours on my back under lesser vehicles with a transmission balanced on
my chest trying to sink it home into the back end of the crank and cursing
up a storm.  Standing beside the tranny with it suspended from the rafters
on a hand winch is MUCH preferable.

With a little practice, the roof, floors & seat box can be removed in just
over an hour.

Paul in Victoria.

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:50:30 -0800
Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners

Zack this sounds like an improvement but you have to consider the non
standard nature of the change. With the prices of good original 109s going
through the roof i would hesitate....ray

----------
> From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners
> Date: Wednesday, March 10, 1999 10:17 AM
> In a message dated 3/10/99 10:11:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> ccoates@GOLDER.com writes:

	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> ccoates@GOLDER.com writes:
>       On a different subject, has anyone ever replaced the door sills on
a 
>       109 pickup or an 88 with something slightly more substantial?  (I
am 
>       talking about the bits the floor and seat box bolts to).  I am
betting 
>       that some decent c-channel would make a much more robust connection
in 
>       this area. >>
> I'm launching into the same or similar project and would be interested in
some
> others experiences in this area.  My drivers side is exponentially worse
than
> the passenger (right) side, but I need to upgrade seatbelt attach while
I'm

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From: "Kirk Hillman" <kdhillman@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:39:43 PST
Subject: Pressure regulators

List,
     Since my main email isn't liked by the major I wanted to resubmit a 
couple of messages that were killed:

    I know a few of you seem to think that a fuel pressure regulator
isn't necessary, but here is my limited experience.  I replaced my
Zenith with a Weber 2bbl.  The instructions that came with the Weber
stated that is was not to be run outside of a 1.5-3 psi envelope.  I use
a mechanical fuel pump and it wouldn't run until I put the regulator
on.  Even if it did run though, I would still have the regulator in
line.  You see I have a backup electric fuel pump.  While on the trail
once we returned to a hill that we had come down that we weren't going
to make it up.  The truck just kept dying.  The pump was installed but
not wired.  So my co-pilot and I patched together a wiring set-up in the
dark.  We drove up the hill no problem after that.  I will note that I
still had the Zenith on at the time, and that I am sure it was the mech.
fuel pump that was the weak point, not the carb.  The point is that I
WANT to have the electric pump as a backup, and with the Weber the
pressure needs to be reduced from the 7 or something psi that my pump
produces.
    Additionally, I would add that I understand that the Weber stalls at
extreme angles.  I have never experienced this (and I thought some of my
angles were extreme!).  A guy on another list wrote that a significant
improvement can be had by replacing the brass float with a plastic one.
He even had the part number, but I don't have it now.  He also noted
that you could decide to stall going up or going down.  The way that
most 2bbl Weber's are installed means they should stall pointing
uphill.  Rotate them 180 degrees and you stall going down hill.
Personally I would rather stall going up, because at least then I have a
winch line to string up and secure the vehicle to let it down if needs
be.  But again, I have never stalled with this carb and the BRASS float
to date.
    The regulator is up to you, the plastic float is up to you, but
having fun in your rover is NOT an option, it's an obligation.  :-)

Cheers,
Kirk Hillman
and 'The Banshee Hillman'

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From: "Risely, Chris" <ChrisRisely@aec.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:48:07 -0700
Subject: free to a good home

Hello all. 
   Just a quick note. Having just moved to a smaller shop, I find that I've
simply got too many spare parts to keep everything. Consequently, I'm going
to either give away, or scrap a large volume of series 1 parts. The main
space takers are a number of series IOE engines that are currently lying on
my shop floor. I have 1 good 2000cc IOE short block, and one useable
condition, complete, 1600cc IOE engine! Both engines were runners, but have
been sitting for the past 4 years. For anyone contemplating a resto, they're
yours for the taking. I'm located in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, and I'll be
starting on the cleanup this coming weekend, (mar. 13/14th) so if you're
interested in the engines (or any other series 1 bits) please contact me
before then: I'd rather give the parts to another Rover owner than scrap
them, but I desperately need the space to re-assemble my project Rover

Regards,
Chris Risely.
e-mail feedback to rockmage@xoommail.com

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From: "Kirk Hillman" <kdhillman@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:59:29 PST
Subject: Snow chains

Here is another on that the major tossed:

 I just thought I would send a little note to the list with my
jubilation about snow chains.  A while ago I was trying to decide what
method I would use to overcome the really sticky situations we seem to
get into.  Limited slip... lockers... chains?  Wisdom is slowly sneaking
up on me so I decided to try the simplest method, chains.  I have been
quite badly stuck once since I bought my V-block chains.  Of course I
had not used them, thus I was stuck.  Putting the chains -under- the
tires was what got me out in the end though.  :-)
    Tonight I was working on a few things on the Banshee and upon
completion it required a test drive, as always.  I went a couple of
blocks and ended up at the neighbourhood ice rink.  The plowed drifts
here seemed the ideal place to play for a moment before returning home.
I can tell you that I didn't get that far.  In fact I got nowhere.  Just
after getting in with all four wheels I was spinning them all.  I wasn't
stuck, just humbled a little.  Then it dawned on me that this would be
an ideal time to try on the chains, since I was close to home, there was
enough light from the rink that I could see, and it couldn't have been
more than 20 degrees C below zero.  Perfect!  I only tried putting on
the chains when I bought them, which happened to be before the snow and
cold came.  All in all it went pretty well.  Those tiny drifts proved no
trouble at all now!  I drove over these drifts and such for a few
minutes listening for any metal thrashing or generally unhappy sounds
but heard none.  I stopped to make sure they were all still snug and
re-adjusted each one a little tighter.  Now I crawled back to my house
at such a turtle speed that it didn't even budge the speedo from zero.
I wasn't going to win any races today.  I got into my snow-covered
driveway but had to keep going, the urge was too great.  Now my back
yard has LR signature tracks all over the place.  I know you are all
thinking I am absolutely mad... and I have to agree, but this was
awesome.  We have a very large yard, especially for in the city.  It is
probably 200 feet across the back which borders on a wild parkway.  Our
lot is totally protected from the weather so the snow that falls here
doesn't get blown away.  That means that there is currently about 2 to
2-1/2 feet of snow back there.  I was driving around as if there wasn't
half that much.  I even climbed the back hill that begins with a 2 foot
step (the lawn tractor won't do it in the summer!).  The only thing that
even slowed me down was a pile of snow about 4-1/2 feet deep that was
left from shovelling the sidewalk to the shop, and that was only because
I wasn't using momentum.  These things are incredible!
    I think I can safely say that of all the times I have gotten stuck
in my LR, there isn't once that would have been a problem had I chained
up first.  There are still a few hills I wouldn't have made it up, but
no one is perfect.  :-)  Honestly, if you don't have chains and you do
any kind of off roaming where you will encounter mud or snow, get
chains... I have four and wouldn't trade them for anything now.  It will
open up whole new vistas of opportunities.  Now, what about air lockers
AND chains...

Regards,
Kirk Hillman
and 'The Banshee Hillman'

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From: "Kirk Hillman" <kdhillman@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:09:09 PST
Subject: Spam Killing 

John,
     The ironic thing is that the only messages getting through to the 
list are ones from my hotmail address.  I didn't even use a hotmail 
address until I started having problems.  My real address is on the 
@Home network (Shaw, etc.).  So any time you see a spamkill that has 
something to the effect of "mail.rdc1.ab.home.com", that was me being 
ousted by the major.
     And John, thanks for the advice on the vacuum problem.  I will look 
into it as soon as possible.  I have to get it running right so I can go 
play in the snow!  :-P

Kirk Hillman
and 'The Banshee Hillman'

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 99 12:43:38 -0800
Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners

> On a different subject, has anyone ever replaced the door sills on a 
>109 pickup or an 88 with something slightly more substantial?  (I am 
;>talking about the bits the floor and seat box bolts to).  I am betting 
;>that some decent c-channel would make a much more robust connection in 
;>this area. 

I can't say that I have actually done it...yet, but it seems to me that 
you could replace those sections AND the lower sills with a specially 
designed set of sliders.  The end result could provide you with 
considerably more side impact protection.  Try a slider anchor at the 
bulkhead, front and rear fuel tank and front rear spring hanger 
outriggers.  It should provide a world of additional strength.

Just a future project

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: "Wolfe, Charles" <CWolfe@smdc.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:59:11 -0600
Subject: Hi Jack Lift anchor site.

What is the best way to use the hijack lift to say change a tire?  Where can
I anchor the lifting plate of the jack?  Seems to me I need to but somesort
of siderail on vehicle to use effectively.

Cwolfe

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From: Ian Mitchell <imitchel@chopin.fis.puc.cl>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:11:20 -0800
Subject: Easy SII Questions

Hi all

I am now back from my 3 1/2 week holiday exploring Southern Chile in our
SII. We only bought it a couple of weeks before we went and what with
the panic of getting it ready to go, I had no time to anything other
than the absolute necessities. Now that we are back I can spend some
time fiddling.

 Where SHOULD the main beam switch be on a SII? I say should because it
has been rewired (without any colour coding!) and the beam isn't
actually connected at the lamp end!

How do you get at the back of the headlamp which is on the driver's side
(LHD)? The only way I can see is to remoce the grill, but mine is
Riveted on - should it be screwed on?

As it is a very early SII I have a SI engine but I don't know if it is a
1.6 or a 2.0 (I suspect the latter). Tonight I will have a look for the
engine number. The thought suddenly struck me that I may have a SI
gearbox. Is there a number which I can look for which will identify my
gearbox and where is it (the number, not the gearbox!)?

We had a great time exploring the Carratera Austral, a LONG untarmaced
(don't know the correct name) road stretching from Puerto Montt to the
South of Chile. We drove about 1500km on it. Broke a shock absorber when
we hit a pothole, in fact when I looked underneath the whole connection
between the spring hanger plate and the shock absorber had broken off.
The Shock absorber and plates were still there but all connecting pieces
were gone. Fortunately we were near Cohaique, the biggest town in the
region and just a few days earlier had been talking to a mechanic who
owned a 1955 SI. So I introduced him to our landie and then he set to
work fixing it. It was a fun day!

Good to be back (he lied).

Ian

--
Dr. Ian H Mitchell
Facultad de Fisica
Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
Santiago

Tel + 56 2 686 4985

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:08:13 -0800
Subject: RE: Hi Jack Lift anchor site.

Front bumper or rear crossmember works for me.

Paul in Victoria.

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From: "Risely, Chris" <ChrisRisely@aec.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:12:39 -0700
Subject: RE: Hi Jack Lift anchor site.

	I've found three places to use the high lift on a stock Rover. Front
bumper, rear bumper, and the bulkhead, right beside the outriggers. 
	On my modified S1, I've got saddle tanks, and the skid plates under
the tanks are fitted with anchor points for the high-lift. NB: for anyone
with modified suspension, I've got a clip rigged up on the frame above each
axle, and I use a chained looped from the hook, around the axle, and back to
the hook, to limit axle travel when extracting the Rover from a hole, or
changing a tire. Much safer than jacking it 3 feet up, just to get the wheel
to leave the ground.
regards,
CR

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:26:00 -0800
Subject: more on tranny removal

I have to say that I am a steadfast 'up through the floor' fan when it 
comes to transmission removal.  'Off with the roof too,' I say.  I've spent 
quite a few hours o............the tranny with it suspended from the 
rafters on a hand winch is MUCH preferable.

     Much agreed.  Though when I pulled my tranny, I used a 2x4 on the top 
     of the inside lip of the roof sill and a comealong to support the 
     tranny.  Worked a treat, actually.  If I had rafters, I would probably 
     have pulled the roof though.
     
     Of course, now I own 1/4 shares in a 4 ton engine hoist which should 
     make the whole job a *lot* easier next time.

With a little practice, the roof, floors & seat box can be removed in just
over an hour.

     The kind of practice we all do not want to get  ;-)  The second time 
     is a lot easier too, if you grease up all the bolts the first time...

     Clinton "preaching the greasey gospel" Coates

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:21:00 -0800
Subject: RE: floor removal and Stiffeners

     Ray makes a very good point...

Zack this sounds like an improvement but you have to consider the non
standard nature of the change. With the prices of good original 109s going
through the roof i would hesitate....ray

     However, if one engineers it so that the sections are just stronger 
     but bolt up to the same mountings, then this is a non-permanent mod.  
     The extent of modifications that one does to their rovers is becoing a 
     touchy subject these days.  I am not going to get into it very far 
     becasue my nomex suit is at the drycleaners right now.  Changing 
     things to non standard does tend to reduce value for originality.  
     *however*, replacing a cruddy part with a well engineered/better 
     replacement that bolts on with no mods to the original truck is a 
     viable alternative IMHO.  These kinds of things can be removed at a 
     future date to easily bring the truck to stock.  I would tend to put 
     this in the same class as a careful alternator mod (my delco 
     installation required zero cutting of wires or grinding...1 hour and 
     it is back to stock with its wimpy genny) or a non invasive modern 
     seat mod (again, my fiero seats required zero drilling of holes).

**************
     TeriAnn also has a good point...

I can't say that I have actually done it...yet, but it seems to me that 
you could replace those sections AND the lower sills with a specially 
designed set of sliders.  The end result could provide you with 
considerably more side impact protection.  Try a slider anchor at the 
bulkhead, front and rear fuel tank and front rear spring hanger 
outriggers.  It should provide a world of additional strength.

Just a future project

     I like this.  One could also incorporate a low profile step as well.  
     Keeping in mind what Ray sez about originality, one of the defining 
     characteristics of the rover is that it is so easily modifiable.  This 
     can be bad (makes it easy for numbnuts to butcher/alter/bodge things) 
     or it can be good (makes it easy for careful people to make really 
     cool tailored vehicles).  I think we all know where TeriAnn's 
     inclinations lie...
     
     I know a guy down the street from me who has a seriously fiddled 86".  
     It has a 2" body lift, a custom steering box from something or other 
     and a GM V6 engine.  It looks seriously bad.  *However*, the way he 
     did it, it is about 1 weeks work from stock.  Unbolt the body, get 
     some help from Mr. Angle Grinder to take off the fabbed mounting 
     points, unbolt the steering box, pull the engine, paint the chassis, 
     install the 2.0l, install the steering box, put the body back on and 
     instant stock Series 1.  OK, it is a bit involved.  But my point is 
     that it can be done without all that much trouble.....compared to 
     dropping in a 350 V8 into an 80" at least....
     
     Is it warm in here, or is it just me?
     
     Clinton

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:59:40 EST
Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners

In a message dated 3/10/99 10:40:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
wiseowl@direct.ca writes:

<< Zack this sounds like an improvement but you have to consider the non
 standard nature of the change. With the prices of good original 109s going
 through the roof i would hesitate....ray >>
I've just got to do something about the rusted places at the base of the doors
and at the base of the B pillar so the rest of the pieces don't flap.

If there was something better I'd investigate, otherwise new braces and pieces
and again in twenty years?

Zack

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From: Vel Natarajan <vel@enteract.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:19:36 -0600
Subject: SIIA points & condenser - sources?

I was told that I could buy new points & a condenser for my '65 SIIA
at Pep Boys if I asked for an MGB part number.  Just wanted to confirm
if this is correct before I made a trip over there.  Hopefully it will
be cheaper than a US mailorder house...

Vel Natarajan

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 99 15:03:21 -0800
Subject: RE: floor removal and Stiffeners

>     Ray makes a very good point...
;
;>Zack this sounds like an improvement but you have to consider the non
;>standard nature of the change. With the prices of good original 109s 
going
;>through the roof i would hesitate....ray

<SNIP>
;>one of the defining 
;>characteristics of the rover is that it is so easily modifiable.  This 
;>can be bad (makes it easy for numbnuts to butcher/alter/bodge things) 
;>or it can be good (makes it easy for careful people to make really 
;>cool tailored vehicles).  I think we all know where TeriAnn's 
;>inclinations lie...

For me it was an easy start. A previous owner had made body cuts inside 
the rear body and on the rear panels.  There was no going back to stock 
without replacing the entire body behind the seats when I got the car.  
But back then these Land Rover things were worthless when they were worn 
out.  I paid US$ 350 for mine and thought I paid too much considering 
it's condition.  

Back when I cut the hole for the propane tank access door and the one for 
the front left fuel tank, good running series II Land Rovers were worth 
about US$ 2500 and people were still out there looking for 109 two doors 
to convert to trailers.

Well Rover came back to the U.S. with advertising and the prices for the 
surviving series cars seem to be skyrocketing. My 109 is very far from 
stock but she meets my needs and that is what is important to me.  If I 
were to sell her I would ask considerably more than what a stock series 
II 109 pickup would go for.  But it really doesn't matter to me what 
value society puts on The Green Rover. The car meets my needs much better 
than a stock one would and with 20 plus years of ownership I can not 
imagine ever parting with her.  It is just funny money when you never 
intend to sell a car.  

I wonder if you can get 109 sized burial plots?  That would be the 
ultimate Land Rover expedition.

TeriAnn Wakeman               If you send me direct mail, please
Santa Cruz, California        start the subject line with TW - 
twakeman@cruzers.com           I will be sure to read the message

http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman   

"How can life grant us the boon of living..unless we dare"
Amelia Earhart 1898-1937

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 99 15:28:30 -0800
Subject: Re: Easy SII Questions

> Where SHOULD the main beam switch be on a SII? I say should because it
>has been rewired (without any colour coding!) and the beam isn't
>actually connected at the lamp end!

There should be a foot switch to go between high beam and low beam.  A 
blue wire should go from the ignition/headlamp switch to the foot switch. 
 This provides the power.  There should be a blue wire with a white 
stripe and a blue wire with a red stripe going from the switch, out a 
hole in the side kick panel, across the bulkhead near the bell housing up 
the right side.  The wires go to four way connectors near the right side 
of the radiator.  There is a plug that connects to the rear of the 
headlamps.  The plug has a short subharness that comes out of the 
headlamp bucket.  The one on the right plugs directly into the four way 
connectors.  The one on the left comes out and connects to another 
subharness that runs in front of the radiator on the underside of the top 
radiator support to connect to the four way connectors on the right side. 
 The black wires in the sub harnesses are the ground leads and they 
connect to a Lucas ground connector on the underside of the top radiator 
support.
New headlamp plugs with subharnesses are available new.
>How do you get at the back of the headlamp which is on the driver's side
>(LHD)? The only way I can see is to remoce the grill, but mine is
>Riveted on - should it be screwed on?

The grill should be held in place by the two screws holding the Land 
Rover name plate to the front bulkhead.  If someone rivited the plate on 
you will need to drill it out.

You get at the rear of the left headlamp bucket through the grill opening.

The headlamp buckets are held to the front bulkhead by screws that are 
accessable then you remove the headlamp rims.  The headlamp subharnesses 
are removed from the front after removing the headlamp.  The plug is too 
large to fit through the wire access opening in the rear of the buckets.

Best of luck with your project.

TeriAnn Wakeman                       The Green Rover, rebuilt and
Santa Cruz, California                and maintained using parts from
twakeman@cruzers.com                  British Pacific 800-554-4133
http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

Walk in harmony with the earth and all her creatures and you will create 
beauty wherever you go.

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From: Paul Quin <Paul_Quin@pml.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:32:24 -0800
Subject: RE: Easy SII Questions

I will add one point to TeriAnn's verbal wiring schematic:  On my SII (1961)
the wires come up from the footswitch to a hockey puck shaped 6 way junction
box on top of the footwell under the steering column  and from there forward
to the lights.  One wire from the high beam circuit also goes back to the
dash panel high beam warning light.

Paul in Victoria.

	http://www.cruzers.com/~twakeman      

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:53:25 +0100
Subject: Re: Positive earth to negative earth!

Disconnect the positive terminal of the battery. Insert a low wattage
(indicator type) 12v lamp IN SERIES between battery positive and
positive cable to starter motor.

If the lamp lights up - however dimly - then you have something,
somewhere which is shorting to earth (negative) or drawing current in
some way.

Disconnect things one at a time to eliminate the culprit.

A good quality amperemeter inserted in the same place will also work.

DO NOT try to start motor with lamp/meter in series - you will fry the
wire and bu''er your meter.

This method has the advantage of giving an indication that you have a
fault, making it easier to find!

If the lamp does not light (or if the meter does not show any current
draw) - then the battery is losing it's charge.

Good luck

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
      Visit the "Native Experience" website at 
          http://www.channel6.dk/native
Contact the "Native Experience" film unit in Alaska
          telephone   +1 (907) 230 0359
          e-mail      channel6@alaska.net
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:12:54 +0100
Subject: Getting things out and in again...

If the bodywork and underside is clean and free of crud and underseal,
then puilling a seatbox our or removing a wing is a half hour job at the
most.

If you are doing a rebuild, plan for the next partial spilt down.
Replace hard to get at nuts with captive plates ( small straps of steel
bar with bolts nuts welded to them) - then you can remove and reinstall
these from the easy side.

Make sure that such difficult bolts are no longer than needed for the
job - why fight for 20 minutes with a spanner and a gallon of WD40 just
to turn a nut off an extra inch of thread which serves no other purpose
than to rust and render removal impossible. If you need a long bolt to
pul body parts togethere when assembling (like the seat belt bracket -
seat box side flanges - rear tub - bottom sill member, then use a long
bolt to pull togther, insert a short bolt in the other hole and tighten,
then replace the first long bolt with a short one. Seems a waste of time
at the time? Beats fighting useless thread in three years.

If pulling the wing seems too much trouble to replace the starter motor,
consider pulling the manifolds instead. Actually it is marginally
possible to remove a starter motor without pulling anything.

Several others have replied with comments about making space to work - I
cannot agree more, it's better to do without the wagon for a few more
days, and remove everything which is in the way. Much safer too!

Happy knuckle-chaffing!

Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:16:33 +0100
Subject: Re: Tranny + floor removal

If you have a few spare friends - pull the florplates and tunnel cover,
disconnect the door sils from the door post at the firewall end,
disconnect roof from windscreen, and lift the entire tub and roof,
including seatbox (take the handbrake with you).

It sounds fun - it is!

Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: John Karlsson <karlsson@edgenet.net>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 19:14:45 -0500
Subject: RE: floor removal and Stiffeners

At 03:03 PM 3/10/99 -0800, you wrote:

>I wonder if you can get 109 sized burial plots?  That would be the 
>ultimate Land Rover expedition.

A few years ago a woman here in Rhode Island was buried in her Corvair.  I
recently saw a news article about how some body shop shortened the car to
meet burial requirements.  So I suppose a 109 might be possible.  I've
always thought a burlap sack would be my choice when the time comes, but
maybe I should start thinking about my 88".  We've been together for almost
30 years now, and I can't imagine that we will ever part!

John Karlsson
Hope Valley, RI

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:19:10 +0100
Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners

what's a slider or slider-anchor?
:-)
 
Adrian Redmond

          http://www.channel6.dk/native

	[Attachment  removed, was 1 lines.]	

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From: Clinton Coates <ccoates@GOLDER.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:58:00 -0800
Subject: Question for the mage

     Hi Chris,
     
     I was just wondering if you had managed to assemble some pictures of 
     the mage?  I have a couple of more questions regarding the transfer 
     case mount and a few other things.  I have found a good supply of free 
     MB engines and transmissions for mock up work (and good used runners 
     for not that much more...).
     
     How much longer until the mage is running again?
     
     Clinton

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From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:51:12 EST
Subject: Copper coil around the exhaust

Somebody wrote recently about coiling copper tubing around the exhaust
manifold.  This, of course, makes good sense but begs the question of where
to put the sour mash kettle and the cooling coils.

It could be explained to revenuers as a British accessory for brewing tea.

Paul Donohue
1965 Land Rover (not a coiler) 109

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From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 21:56:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Easy SII Questions (gearbox)

Ian Mitchell wrote:

> As it is a very early SII I have a SI engine but I don't know if it is
> a
> 1.6 or a 2.0 (I suspect the latter). Tonight I will have a look for
> the
> engine number.

2.0 if it is the original engine, same as the late SIs. Ivins claims '58
SII 88 petrol engines have serial numbers starting with 141800001. I
don't know if that holds true for the 2.0 engines.

> The thought suddenly struck me that I may have a SI
> gearbox. Is there a number which I can look for which will identify my
> gearbox and where is it (the number, not the gearbox!)?
> the

SI and SII gearboxes are identical until the suffix "A" boxes were
introduced in either late SIIs or early SIIAs. The bellhousings differ
between a 2.0 liter F-head petrol engine, and the 2.25 petrol and diesel
OHV engines. SI and SII with the same type engines used the same
bellhousings. The SII hydraulic clutch linkage was designed so that the
bellhousings and internal clutch release system could be carried over
from the SI which has a mechanical clutch linkage. BTW, the 6 cyl LR
engine had the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the 2.0 liter.

All SIIs up to gearbox suffix "A" have the same transfer case. The part
number is different for the SII transfer case from the SI, and the
differences appear to be in the speedometer drive housing. The front
output shaft housings are identical between late SI and SII.

Regards,
David Cockey

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From: john taylor <jht@easynet.ca>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:07:42 -0500
Subject: Re: clunk in 4wd

I have a similar clunk every so often and feel it is due to having a tooth
missing on the spider gear on the front. I am waiting for a more dramatic
manifestation before I motivate myself to fix it - if that is the problem!
John Taylor
IIa v6 bastard

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From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:06:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: floor removal and Stiffeners

>what's a slider or slider-anchor?

  A rock slider.  It will protect the lower sides of the vehicle when you
come down on a rock.  Slider-anchor...I think that would be where you put
the foot of the high-lift so when you jack it up, the lifting foot won't
slide around and let the truck fall on you.

   Scott C. Wickham Jr.
     Pittsburgh, Pa.
     1972 Ser III
     Zebra truck
     

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From: urbncby@sgi.net (Scott C. Wickham Jr.)
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:12:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: soft top

  Does anybody have an OLD, HOLEY, DUCT-TAPED, soft top for an 88"?
Looking for one for a pattern, mainly.  But, if I can put more duct on it
I'll just use it.  Anybody???

   Scott C. Wickham Jr.
     Pittsburgh, Pa.
     1972 Ser III
     Zebra truck
     

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:44:24 EST
Subject: Re: Rear main seal - remove tranny or engine?

In a message dated 99-03-10 02:25:47 EST, you write:

<< To help facilitate this procedure in the future I am planning on making the
 trany xmember removable on the new frame.  Anyone else ever done this(made
 it not bought it that way)?
 Got any pics tips hints etc?
 
 Pete
  >>
Yeah Pete, Look at a Range Rover.

Bill Lawrence

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From: "Ray Burton" <j_r_burton@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:52:29 PST
Subject: re: Some of the most fun I've had with my clothes on:

Charles Irvin wrote:
>For me, it was obliterating several scrapped M113's with depleted 
>uranium rounds fired from  Vulcan cannons at angels 10, and watching 
>the wood burning demo for the 2Kw floodlight! (didn't know you could 
>ignite a 2x12 board from 10 feet away!) The howitzer had its moments 
>too, but that's another story...

I've either had the privelege of observing or actually firing quite a 
few heavy weapons back in the 70s, including observing a "Mad Minute", 
but one of the most impressive single events was when I watched a 
battery of M-42 "Duster"s at Camp Pickett firing for effect "en battery" 
at an old M-4 hulk down range.  Watching 12 bofors 40mm firing in 
full-automatic spitting high explosive tracers at a single target is 
truely a sight to behold. 

Cheers,
Ray Burton         J_R_Burton@hotmail.com
Richmond, Va.
'64 s.2a 109 SW "Lola", '70 s.2a 88 hardtop, '84 RR "Brown Bess"
ROAV; Central Va. Rover Owners; Mostly Metro; 
BRLRC #302; OVLR; R.O.V.E.R.S.;  Solaros #139

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:49:57 EST
Subject: Re: Rear main seal - remove tranny or engine?

In a message dated 99-03-10 03:39:11 EST, you write:

<< I remember reading on an Australian web-page somewhere (sorry, lost the
 URL), that some guy reckoned you could remove the transmission without
 removing the seat box. There weren't any details, though. I can only
 presume that he spilt the various transmission components in situ.
  >>
The SPO of my Series I cut the center out of the seat box. Now I need to get
it welded back together. As I recall it may be possible to remove the trans
without removing the seatbox, but it was a lot easier with it out of the way.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM 

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 23:58:22 EST
Subject: Re: Rear main seal - remove tranny or engine?

In a message dated 99-03-10 08:23:49 EST, you write:

 Well.... I am going to give you advise that is contrary to all the
 others.
 I have done main seals both ways and now I always remove the engine.
 This
 has nothing to do with the actual job of removing the engine or the
 gearbox but the fact that the seal replacement is sooo much easier when
 the engine is upside down on an engine stand. Those cork T pieces can
 cause much grief when you are working on your back with bits of mud and
 grease dropping in your eyes. You can also take the opportunity to check
 on how your crankshaft bearing are doing.
 John and Muddy
  PS some of the methods described to avoid removing the seat box seem
 like
 10 times more work that removing the box. >>

Generally the T pieces, which seal the sides of the block holding the rear
main bearing, should not need to be replaced unless the bearing has been
disturbed.  I have to admit that the split seal and garter spring can be
somewhat of a challenge lying on your back.

Bill Lawrence

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:06:17 EST
Subject: Re: Kirks Idling again

In a message dated 99-03-10 08:27:32 EST, you write:

 Kirk it sounds very much like you a vacuum leak. There are a number of
 place where this is likely. 1. the carb to manifold connection, there
 are 2 gaskets and a plastic isolation block. Look care fully at the
 block as 
 an undetected crack can cause problems.
 2. The manifold to head gasket.
 3. The intake manifold itself needs to checked for cracking.
 4. It is possible that the brake servo is leaking either, externally
 where
 the white plastic elbow enters or where the master cylinder attaches, or
 internally through the diaphragm  
 The sucking sound you hear would support the idea that the problem is
 with vacuum.
 The valve cover either on or off would not cause such a sound.
 John and Muddy >>

One easy way to locate a vacuum leak is to use a propane torch (do not light
it). While idling the engine open the valve and direct the propane to  the
suspected areas. If there is a leak thepropane will be pulled into the
manifold and engine idle will pick up and maybe even stabilize.

Other things that can cause a poor idle are tight or burned valves.

Bill Lawrence

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:23:50 EST
Subject: Re: more tranny evolutions

In a message dated 99-03-10 13:12:34 EST, you write:

 Speaking of weird tranny removal, has anyone read that story about the 
 Australian who removed, repaired and replaced his transmission 
 singlehandedly at night in the midst of a raging flooded stream without  
 spilling the oil? It must be right up there on the list of Really Cool 
 Extemporaneous Engineering Exploits.  I hope I never am called to perform 
 such feats...
 
 Clinton
  >>
I'd like to have the video of that. Might want to keep a finger on the mute
button. What kind of warranty does he offer?

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:25:57 EST
Subject: Re: free to a good home

Seems like all the SI engines are in Canada. I'm building a 2 liter spreadbore
and I've run into a brick wall because the PO disassembled the engine and let
most of the fasteners get lost. I've had the gracious offer of a complete
engine from another list member when I can afford to ship it, (Hang in there
John.)  but I wonder if you have any loose hardware laying around. some of the
things I may have trouble finding are the brass cap nuts for the valve cover
and tappet cover. A clutch and pressure plate (assuming an early SII set won't
fit). Exhaust and intake manifold studs and nuts, front (timing) cover
fasteners, oil pan studs and nuts, head bolts (full set), studs for rocker
brackets, locating dowels for flywheel housing, flywheel bolts, CB brake
master cylinder with three bolt flange. Lots more but I guess this is quite a
list already.  If you have any of this and you want to get rid of it let me
know and we can arrange some way of getting it out of your way and into mine.
Thanks.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: DNDANGER@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:29:33 EST
Subject: Re: Some of the most fun I've had with my clothes on:

In a message dated 99-03-10 23:54:07 EST, you write:

 Charles Irvin wrote:
 >For me, it was obliterating several scrapped M113's with depleted 
 >uranium rounds fired from  Vulcan cannons at angels 10, and watching 
 >the wood burning demo for the 2Kw floodlight! (didn't know you could 
 >ignite a 2x12 board from 10 feet away!) The howitzer had its moments 
 >too, but that's another story...
 I've either had the privelege of observing or actually firing quite a 
 few heavy weapons back in the 70s, including observing a "Mad Minute", 
 but one of the most impressive single events was when I watched a 
 battery of M-42 "Duster"s at Camp Pickett firing for effect "en battery" 
 at an old M-4 hulk down range.  Watching 12 bofors 40mm firing in 
 full-automatic spitting high explosive tracers at a single target is 
 truely a sight to behold. 
 
 Cheers,
 Ray Burton         J_R_Burton@hotmail.com
 Richmond, Va. >>

Oh you kids! Always bragging about your toys.

Bill Lawrence
Albq, NM

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:42:11 -1000
Subject: Re: soft top

>  Does anybody have an OLD, HOLEY, DUCT-TAPED, soft top for an 88"?
>Looking for one for a pattern, mainly.  But, if I can put more duct on it
>I'll just use it.  Anybody???
Hi Scott,
no soft top, at least not one I want to get rid of.  But mine is off the
vehicle(as are veryother part haha) and in a box in the garage.  If you
don't have any luck let me know and I could make up a pattern from butcher
block paper for you.  Wouldn't be that hard, and I need to do some sewing on
it anyway.  No holes or anything just some loose threads I want to take care
of.

BTW, speaking of soft tops I read somewhere (LROI or LRW) that people treat
their softtops with Thompsons Water Seal to improve its water resistance.
Anyone out their done this?
Mahalo
Pete

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  END OF * LIST DIGEST 
 Input:  messages 49 lines 2335 [forwarded 148 whitespace 0]
 Output: lines 1550 [content 1356  forwarded 105 (cut  43) whitespace 0]

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