The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest

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From: "Neil Brownlee" <metal_thrasher@offroading.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:02:49 -0000
Subject: Sob, sob sob

Er....there is some LR content here somewhere, but as Adrain is rebuilding I
thought I'd chip in with a related email.....

Well, you are reading an email from a most unique person...the first person
in the UK to EVER order an Explorer chassis from Ford, and to make matters
worse, the first person to get a hand built Explorer! She will have a damn
sight more in common with the 109" after this rebuild! The chassis is
twisted so they need to order me one....the sting?! Ford cannot say when it
will arrive, maybe 2 weeks, maybe 2 months, and the insurance company won't
give me a vehicle to use while it is being rebuilt. She'll be getting new
panels, a new steering rack, new offside front suspension and lots of little
bits....what it means is that I can't trade her for that 4.6HSE now....I'm
going to kill that F*rd Mundano driver that ran me off the road.......if I
ever see him! He's lucky I missed him, the Exploder didn't look that bad (to
me!), but then..she doesn't have a crumple zone either.....head on with a
tin sh*t mobile?! They'd still be scraping him off the bumper.....

Would YOU trust a garage to rebuild something like an Exploder? From
scratch? I'm getting very worried about this...why didn;t they just write
her off.....do you think I'd have a case if I complained bitterly that she
won;t ever be the same after the rebuild?! The insurance company didn't care
that I may be without a vehicle for 3 months.....I cannot hire a car as I
have no-one to claim against....argh! Want a laugh? I told the insurance
company that the chassis was being replaced and they asked me if the car was
still driveable???!!! This is of course the same company that classed the
109" as a 2 door sports coupe!! (Direct Line....)

Answers on a postcard to......

Neil

SIII 109" - Now my daily driver - although she doesn't like it and is
starting to moan and come apart at the seams.......leak leak leak....
Kit Form Exploder ha ha ha

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:14:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Sob, sob sob

Neil - call them back and scream like a village of raped virgins.

This is BS - an Exploder won't survive that kind of treatment as well as a
Rover, as it wasn't designed to be repairable. if the chassis is that toasty
it's time for them to apply the TOTAL stamp and let you get on with life.

Scream yer way up the food chain in that insurance company.

                         ajr

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From: Charles Irvin <cirvin1258@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:22:57 -0800
Subject: Re: Sob, sob sob

Actually, the Ford "Exploder" DOES have crumple zones: certain zones on
the truck crumple to the point where the truck must be completely
rebuilt!

I'd never buy one...

Charles

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From: Charles Irvin <cirvin1258@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 04:25:35 -0800
Subject: Interesting morning...

There's a vacant lot near my house, that I sometimes go "off-roading" in
- usually while/after it rains.

This morning, I decided to visit said lot, since I hadn't driven through
it in some while...just as I enter the lot, a couple of guys happened to
be coming towards me in a new Range Rover! (I was in my '89 Range Rover)
The truck even had the polished wheels, and it's driver was going through
mud!

What are the odds of that?

Charles

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From: "Tackley, John" <jtackley.dit@state.va.us>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:30:17 -0500
Subject: British fasteners, tools and fittings...

Someone asked a while ago, so here's the definitive supplier of all things
British...4 offices nationwide...

Metric & Multistandard Components Corp.
120 Old Sawmill River Road
Hawthorne, NY  10532-1599

http://www.metricmcc.com
800-431-2792
Terry O'Connor, Sales Rep.

Do call or type and request a catalog...it's a three ring binder with a
wealth of info...and also describes what they carry...they are not
inexpensive, but they have every Brit. fastener, fitting or tool any LRO
could ever need (even the BSF tap I needed recently).  Usual disclaimers...

John Tackley
Richmond, VA

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:27:18 +0200
Subject: Re: strange noise in the rear

> Sounds to me like it is the bushings in the trailing arms, or maybe
> more likely the bushings in the A-frame on top of the rear axle.

Or the ball joint...

All the best,
^O
Andy

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From: Adrian Redmond <channel6@post2.tele.dk>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:23:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Sob, sob sob

Neil is about to embark on a long project with many trials and tribs. I
can't help asking why not do all this work on a "proper" 4WD instead of
an exploder but the economics of insurance claims surely has something
to do with the answer.

But hang on in Niel - whaterver the marque, a vehicle which is rebuilt
from the frame up is usually better than a new one. That's my experience
anyhow!

:-)

Adrian Redmond

CHANNEL 6 TELEVISION DENMARK       (Adrian Redmond)
Foerlevvej 6  Mesing  DK-8660  Skanderborg  Denmark
telephone (office)                  +45 86 57 22 66
telephone (home)                    +45 86 57 22 64
telefacsimile / data                +45 86 57 24 46
mobile GSM (EFP unit)               +45 40 74 75 64
mobile GSM (admin)                  +45 40 54 22 66
mobile NMT                          +45 30 86 75 66
e-mail                       channel6@post2.tele.dk
      Visit the "Native Experience" website at 
          http://www.channel6.dk/native
Contact the "Native Experience" film unit in Alaska
          telephone   +1 (907) 230 0359
          e-mail      channel6@alaska.net
Visit our homepages!                www.channel6.dk

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From: Nick Eckert <sboarder@gte.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:48:06 -0800
Subject: Cluth went out this morning on the way to work

Hi all,

I purchased my 1972 SIII Landy in December and everything has been going OK 
until this morning.  I think my clutch went out on the way to work.  I managed 
to 
limp into the parking lot, in third gear, but I still need to get home!  The 
clutch is all the way to the floor and it is very difficult to engage a gear.  
Any 
suggestions on how best to get me and my Rover home?  Please send responses 
direct to me since I digest the list.

I am also still seeking a cool name for my Land Rover.  Please send you 
suggestions ;-)

Nickster
sboarder@gte.net

Check out Nicks' World at http://home1.gte.net/sboarder/

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:53:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Cluth went out this morning on the way to work

Are you sure it's the clutch and not the hydraulics? Sounds an awful lot to me
like a seal went south in eithet the master or slave....

Bleed the hydraulics before assuming the clutch went bad. Oftentimes, if the
master or slave are on the way out, bleeding the lines can give you enough
clutch to get home.

                         ajr

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From: Robert Jan van Vliet <rjvvliet@casema.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:56:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Cluth went out this morning on the way to work

Nick Eckert wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am also still seeking a cool name for my Land Rover.  Please send you 
suggestions ;-)

What about "Butch without clutch" or is that a cruel thing to say?

Robert Jan
SIII 109" ht rhd 2.25 petrol '80

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From: "Wise Owl Innovation Incorporated" <wiseowl@direct.ca>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:09:25 -0800
Subject: Re: llA wheel studs and lug nuts

David I can send you some on-spec aftermarket crap if you like! Or how
about a good used late IIA hub for $30.00   Ray.

----------
> From: david hope <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
> To: lro@playground.sun.com
> Subject: llA wheel studs and lug nuts
> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 7:20 PM
> I got a used 'hub with wheel studs' from RN today and I find that the

wheel
> studs are just over 1/4 shorter than the others on my vehicle and that
the
> thread is slightly different.  I had to use incredible effort to get my
lug

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[spamkill: [cC]yber[^pcu][^ios][^rt][^yt] input: %s]	 Return-Path: 
<pixxie@cybergal.com>
[spamkill: [cC]yber[^pcu][^ios][^rt][^yt] input: %s]	 From: 
pixxie@cybergal.com

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From: Russ Wilson <gambrinus66@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:08:24 -0800
Subject: Re: Interesting morning...

>There's a vacant lot near my house, that I sometimes go "off-roading" in
>- usually while/after it rains.
>This morning, I decided to visit said lot, since I hadn't driven through
>it in some while...just as I enter the lot, a couple of guys happened to
>be coming towards me in a new Range Rover! (I was in my '89 Range Rover)
>The truck even had the polished wheels, and it's driver was going through
>mud!
	 [ truncated by list-digester (was 12 lines)]
>What are the odds of that?
>Charles
What part of town do you live in?  If that happened around here the other
rover would be stolen and the other driver would probably be just out
looking for someplace to hide the vehicle while they stripped it for parts.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: "Faure, Marin" <Marin.Faure@PSS.Boeing.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:24:57 -0800
Subject: Re: strange noise in the rear

From: "Ed Alvarez" <alvarez@btnmail.mozcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:45:49 +0800
Subject: strange noise in the rear

i hear a thud or a clunk somewhere around the rear axle when i either go over a 
hump and when i brake some times.  This does not happen all the time, i first 
heard the noise going over a speed bump three months ago, and heard it again 
while braking  twice this month.

Possibly a suspension bushing wearing out.  The cure is to 
replace the bushing(s).  The suspension bushings in a Range 
Rover/Discovery/Defender are good for perhaps 100K miles, or 
less if the vehicle is used a lot off-road.  Land Rover's bushings 
are deliberately made soft to maximize off-road articulation rates. 
However, soft bushings also minimize bushing life.  There are tougher 
bushings available from aftermarket suppliers.  They will extend 
bushing life, but they may reduce your articulation rates and give a 
slightly stiffer ride.  Your choice will be determined by how you use 
your vehicle.

__________________
C. Marin Faure
faurecm@halcyon.com
marin.faure@boeing.com
  (original owner)
  1973 Land Rover Series III-88
  1991 Range Rover Vogue SE

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X-Organization: Ostry Internet Solutions - Internet Service Provider. 
http://www.ostry.com
From: Robert Hanke <robert.hanke@vier-pfoten.at>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:25:48 +0100
Subject: Corrosion Problems

Hi Owners!
Two weeks ago I was absolutely sure my next car is going to be a Defender.
(Until now I´m driving a ´96 Jeep Cherokee.
Then I´ve read in a mailing list, that many of you´ve got serious problems 
with corrosion.
After reading a website concerning the same problems 
(www.whafh.com/landrover/problem.htm) I wonder, if it is still a good idea 
to buy a Land Rover.
What do you think - could anyone give me an advice?
Thanx in advance

Greetings
Robert Hanke

mailto:robert.hanke@vier-pfoten.at

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From: "steve cross" <scross@blazenet.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:34:10 -0500
Subject: driving lights

I need a method to mount some cibie super oscars driving lights on the front
of my 93 range rover.  Any suggestions?  I don't want to install a brush
bar, but haven't found any convenient light mount.
Thanks in advance.
steve

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From: Alan_Richer@motorcity2.lotus.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:31:58 -0500
Subject: Buy a Rover?

Certainly - if you've got half a brain and you clean it after taking it off-road
(You are buying it as an off-road vehicle and not as some stupid macho thing,
right?) then it will be fine.

If you get dumb, don't Waxoyl it and expect it to be like some damn dumb piece
of American iron, then no, you'll get some corrosion.

If you want a hands-off vehicle then an LR isn't it.

                         aj"64 Land Rover daily driver"r

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:41:35 -0500
Subject: Re: Sob, sob sob

First I'd call the insurance company and tell them you are going to call 
a lawyer. Then do it.
What kind of coverage do you have? Sounds like the insurer wrote the 
policy in such a way that if you wreck your car they do nothing.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator...Softimage/Hal
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: "Russell G. Dushin" <rgdushin@blackcat.cat.syr.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:43:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Clutch went south...

yeah, check the hydraulics...likely you've just lost yer slave
seals.  chances are the PO may have used the wrong fluids to
get things going...uh, make sure you're brakes still work...
and get some Castrol LMA.

but,
*** 
I am also still seeking a cool name for my Land Rover.  Please
send you suggestions ;-)
***

Is it GREEN like 89% of the rest of 'em?

How's about Green Rover MCMDIV?

r"just kiddin'"d/nige

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:57:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Cluth went out this morning on the way to work

The clutch itself usually gives plenty of warning that it is ready to 
retire...slippage being number 1 symptom.
I agree with Al. Probly blew a hydraulic seal. Look under truck and see 
if you can distinguish a leak (from all the others). Seal kit is fairly 
cheap. When you push on the pedal, you activate a master cylinder like on 
the brakes, which activates a slave cylinder that pushes the release 
bearing on the clutch assembly. There is a hose connecting the two 
hydraulic cylinders. A failure anywhere along the way will give you no 
clutch.
Do not despair though! This is a golden opportunity to poish your 
driving-without-a-clutch skills, which every Series owner must at one 
time or another come to master.
Begin your training by starting the engine with 1st gear engaged. Be sure 
no children or obstacles are in your way! Then, by using the throttle to 
control engine speed, gently but firmly engage second gear...got it? 
GOOD! If you don't get it at first, continue practising until it becomes 
second nature. Third gear is easy as there is a synchro...same for 
fourth.
Reverse is a bit of a problem...hafta turn off the engine here and engage 
reverse, then use the starter or even the engine to back up. Quickly pull 
it out of gear and use the brakes!!!!!

As for cool names...I'm sure you already thought of a few on the way to 
work, but I won't print them.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator...Softimage/Hal
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: Russ Wilson <gambrinus66@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:58:42 -0800
Subject: Re: driving lights

>I need a method to mount some cibie super oscars driving lights on the front
>of my 93 range rover.  Any suggestions?  I don't want to install a brush
>bar, but haven't found any convenient light mount.
>Thanks in advance.
>steve
Why no brush bar?  Your options are limited as you've already seen.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: "Nick Kay" <nick.kay@ast.co.za>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 20:33:38 +0200
Subject: Wiring Loom

Gentlepersons,

	Once I have rectified the recently discovered severed front half shaft,
steel swarf in the diff/associated problems and metal plate spacer on top
of the chrome ball's bush, I'll be ready to rewire.  Does anyone have a
wiring diagram for an SIIA Diesel.
Actually.....can anyone tell me how to wire up the tank, two enormouse fuel
filters and the forty seven inputs on my FI pump which I failed to draw
pictures of. 

I still need someone to explain how I get vacuum to my brake servo (without
buying a GM alternator) and what the vaccum take off tube on my inlet
manifold is for.  While I'm at it...does the SIIA diesel inlet manifold
look like an 18 inch long 2 inch wide steel tube with four pipes coming off
it, because it  totally blocks the space where my two enormous fuel filters
are supposed to bolt onto the bulkhead.

BTW: Wouter, I have not left the country and fully intend returning your
engine hoist.  Good news is the lump is in and lines up lekker (if you
squint a bit), thanks for that. (yes my welding has got better since I did
your radio mast :-)

Thanks

Nick

Nick Kay
AST Group Cape Town
+27 (0) 82 495 7715  (Mobile)
+27 (0)  21 689 8282 (Office)

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From: TeriAnn Wakeman <twakeman@cruzers.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 99 10:45:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Interesting morning...

<<There's a vacant lot near my house, that I sometimes go "off-roading" in
- usually while/after it rains.>>

<<This morning, I decided to visit said lot, since I hadn't driven through
it in some while...just as I enter the lot, a couple of guys happened to
be coming towards me in a new Range Rover! (I was in my '89 Range 
Rover)>The truck even had the polished wheels, and it's driver was going 
through
mud!>>

<<What are the odds of that?>>

Probably pretty good.  Think about it.  You can take a very expensive 
car, give it a quick gonzo off road look without any of the effort of 
actually going out on a mud run and without the worry of breaking any 
parts or risking the paint to possible damage.  You couldn't find an 
easier way to get the just back from a major mud run look in just a few 
minutes on the way to work.

Instant offroad gonzo look, just add muddy urban/suburban lot and stir.

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From: Charles Irvin <cirvin1258@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:24:50 -0800
Subject: Re: Interesting morning...

On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 08:08:24 -0800 Russ Wilson
<gambrinus66@earthlink.net> writes:
>What part of town do you live in?  If that happened around here the 
>other
>rover would be stolen and the other driver would probably be just out
>looking for someplace to hide the vehicle while they stripped it for 
>parts.

I'm in Compton: the only series owner that lives here (there is one that
works on his truck here at a relatives' house - nearby even), and one of
a few Range Rover owners that lives here, so ths odds of this happening
aren't very good at all.

There are a few store owners that have new Range Rovers, maybe a few
folks at the courthouse - could have been somebody from there: they're 6
blocks down the street from me.

Charles

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From: "Adams, Bill" <badams@usia.gov>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:28:37 -0500
Subject: Re: driving lights

Drill two 3/8" holes in the hood and sick the light mounting studs 
through. Use a big washer underneath to keep 'em from flopping. Use duct 
tape to attach the wires under the bonnet so they don't droop onto the 
manifold and melt.
You can rig a removable mount with a  2-foot piece of steel stud and a 
couple of nylon zip-ties run through the grille.

Bill Adams
3D Artist/Animator...Softimage/Hal
'69 Buick LeSabre Ragtop
'66 Land Rover S2A 109 Diesel Station Wagon,
'81 Honda Goldwing 1100 Standard:
"Practicing the ancient oriental art of ren-ching"

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 14:32:28 EST
Subject: Re: Cluth went out this morning on the way to work

In a message dated 3/24/99 9:57:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, badams@usia.gov
writes:

 As for cool names...I'm sure you already thought of a few on the way to 
 work, but I won't print them.
  >>
Excellent treatise on driving the way God intended.  I didn't have the guts to
attempt to instruct such an esoteric art "over the phone" as it were.

Let us hope that gear teeth stay where they should be during the accelerated
learning process of the prior correspondent.

As far as the name of his rig goes... I was driving my 109 for the first
evening run and first trip longer than around the block or off to coffee (10
blocks or so) and was on the freeway at night in a diesel 109.  At full
throttle and fourth gear,  (What, 40 mph or so?) the noise made by the engine
didn't drown out the guys almost clipping the rear corner of the vehicle as
they squealed past at 70 mph while using the horn.  I'm considering naming the
rig " Enfronteya" in kind of a fractured spanglish kind of a way.  Any
comments,questions?

Zack

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From: "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:59:58 -1000
Subject: Re: Interesting morning...

>I'm in Compton:
California?  South LA County?
And there are Rangies there?
Well that totally changes my impression of the area.  So it's not as bad as
we see on the news?

Pete

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From: hstin@cts.com (Henry Stinson)
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Warn Winch/ Series III

Hello,
        I've just been given a Warn M8000 winch!  I've called the usual US
suppliers but have been unable to find a mount that allows use of the hand
crank by locating the winch on top of the bumper.  Does anyone know of such
a mount?
        Secondly, how does the stock Series III charging system cope with
the use of an electric winch?  I'd prefer to avoid major modifications....
        
                                                        Thanks
                                                      Henry Stinson
                                                      '73 88" SWB SHED

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From: Marc Rengers <mr@b4m.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:52:40 +0100
Subject: Re: bleeding...oops your right

> Bleeding diesel>yeah follow the fuel system...but in reverse orde
>Not reverse, from the filters to the injectors, the air must go with the 
>fuelstream....
 
Oh, I love it when a plan comes together....

Marc Rengers                                                LRCH-member
Westeremden, Holland
mr@b4m.com (marc@fileserver.minerva.fk.hanze.nl)
Systemsmanager Academie Minerva Groningen

0596-551334 (home)
050-3666761 (work)
06-51185046 (GSM)

http://www.minerva.fk.hanze.nl/landrover/index.html

      +------_                                --_         
      |____|__\___                    ________|__\___     
      | _  |   |_ |}                  |  _    |   |_ |}   
      "(_)"""""(_)"                   ""(_)"""""""(_)"
 1978 SIII 88" 2.25 diesel       1968  109"  SIIa 2.25 petrol
     reg. 47-DB-13                     reg. unknown    
      marine blue                 green (15 layers of paint)
    The running one                  The not running one

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From: Charles Irvin <cirvin1258@juno.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:52:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Interesting morning...

On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:59:58 -1000 "Peter Hope" <phope@hawaii.rr.com>
writes:
>>I'm in Compton:
>California?  South LA County?
>And there are Rangies there?
>Well that totally changes my impression of the area.  So it's not as 
>bad as
>we see on the news?

That's exactly where I am, and it hasn't been as bad as the news makes it
out to be, in a good 15 years!

I kinda like it this way: keeps traffic out of the area.

A few Rangies, the odd Disco. There's even older Maseratis' in the area:
you'd be very suprised at what you can find here (the Southern California
Austin-Healey club of the 1950's-1960's had a chapter here...)

Charles

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From: MRogers315@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:57:12 EST
Subject:  Re: strange noise in the rear

"Ed Alvarez" <alvarez@btnmail.mozcom.com> writes:

> i hear a thud or a clunk somewhere around the rear axle when i either go
over 
a hump and when i brake some times.  This does not happen all the time, i
first 
heard the noise going over a speed bump three months ago, and heard it again 
while braking  twice this month.
> i drive a defender 90 btw.

Most probably the ball joint on the top of the rear axle casing. It is hard to
tell when these things are knackered, try attacking it with a large pry bar to
see if there is much play.

Mike Rogers
Lightweight/Range Rover hybrid
-- 

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From: Dan & Sally Cantwell <dcantwel@cgo.wave.ca>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:37:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Sob, sob sob

Won't that make it a CKD Explorer?
 Dan.

Neil Brownlee wrote:

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From: Andy <andyb@NOSPAMlrover.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:19:51 +0000
Subject: Weird knocking noise - Thanks

Just a quick note to say thanks to all those list members who have
kindly offer advice and diagnosis. 

I've checked the timing and fuel mixture and both are 'on the money' so
I guess its UJs in the front axle.

Thanks once again.

Andy ( Series IIA & 200Tdi Disco)

http://www.lrover.demon.co.uk. 

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From: NADdMD@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:15:26 EST
Subject: Weird idling problem solved (?)

Hi all,

Quick recap:

Started off a week ago with eratic acceleration which I thought might be carb
icing or water in the fuel.  No better after treating the petrol.  Then tried
cleaning carb; then fuel filters and fuel lines, then fuel pickup tube,
checked fuel pump pressure and recleaned the carb--No help.

The solution is there are two problems possibly related.  The eratic
acceleration was due to weak points.  Once cleaned up, the acceleration was
fine. BUT

Problem #2:  Idling was eratic and I could not get it to idle smoothly when I
went to retime the engine.  Particulars:  It idled smoother at first and got
rougher after it warmed up.  Hooking up the vacuum advance would cause the
engine to nearly die and when unhooked, the rpms came up but were much lower
and idle was rough.

Apparent Solution:  Loose Fanbelt.   I still had the idle issue this morning
going to work.  The only difference was I got a bit of fanbelt squealing on
the drive in.  This evening before leaving work, I tightened the fanbelt.
Started the truck and the idle is smooth as baby skin.

My lame explanation:  With a loose fanbelt and running at 600-800 rpms, the
alternator could not put out consistent amperage.  Once the battery wore down
a bit, the HT circuit was getting inconsistent voltage supplied and hence it
acted like a quirky coil.  (Remember, I'd let the engine warm up for 10
minutes before I'd start timing--sat in the truck with slight throttle to warm
the engine up quicker.)  That's why it would start out with a smoother idle
and get progressively rougher.

Perhaps the irregular firing prematurely carboned up the points.  BTW, I
checked the valve clearances, spot on at .010.

I don't have any better explanation.

Nate-- (Serendipity: Science's greatest invention)

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:43:29 EST
Subject: Re: Warn Winch/ Series III

Hey,
I think British Bulldog, proud sponsor of this list, sells a one-piece bumper
top mount that's got the hole for the roller fairlead and universal holes to
bolt a winch onto it--won't interfere w/ starting handle a bit.  I think it's
about 100 bones or so.  It's very beefy.

Bill Rice
64 SIIA 109SW

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From: Zaxcoinc@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:41:55 EST
Subject: Re: bleeding...oops your right

In a message dated 3/24/99 12:53:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, mr@b4m.com
writes:

<< > Bleeding diesel>yeah follow the fuel system...but in reverse orde
 >Not reverse, from the filters to the injectors, the air must go with the 
 >fuelstream....
 Oh, I love it when a plan comes together....
  >>
Language can be so tiresom, but I wish I could bleed from the engine back to
the tank, 
So's I could fill the tank when I ran dry......

Zack

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From: Russ Wilson <gambrinus66@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:49:04 -0800
Subject: Re: Warn Winch/ Series III

>Hey,
>I think British Bulldog, proud sponsor of this list, sells a one-piece bumper
>top mount that's got the hole for the roller fairlead and universal holes to
>bolt a winch onto it--won't interfere w/ starting handle a bit.  I think it's
>about 100 bones or so.  It's very beefy.
Bill, he's got what's actually an 8274 type of winch. These mount facing
forward...kind of different from everything else.  I don't think the BB
mount will work.

Russ Wilson
Leslie Bittner

"That's just my opinion; I could be wrong...."
				Dennis Miller

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From: Jarvis64@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:56:30 EST
Subject: Re: Warn Winch/ Series III

In a message dated 3/24/99 5:55:04 PM Central Standard Time,
gambrinus66@earthlink.net writes:

<< Hey,
 >I think British Bulldog, proud sponsor of this list, sells a one-piece
bumper
 >top mount that's got the hole for the roller fairlead and universal holes to
 >bolt a winch onto it--won't interfere w/ starting handle a bit.  I think
it's
 >about 100 bones or so.  It's very beefy.
 Bill, he's got what's actually an 8274 type of winch. These mount facing
 forward...kind of different from everything else.  I don't think the BB
 mount will work. >>

OK, I thought he said an M8000--which I think is a regular ol' bottom mount
jobber.

Bill

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From: Paul Oxley <paul@adventures.co.za>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:17:00 +0200
Subject: Looks like we're getting spammed...

*Subject: 
*   Date: 
*        Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:59:29 -0800 (PST)
*   From: 
*        owner-lro@playground.sun.com
*
[spamkill: [cC]yber[^pcu][^ios][^rt][^yt] input: %s]	 *Garbage in From: 
pixxie@cybergal.com
[spamkill: [cC]yber[^pcu][^ios][^rt][^yt] input: %s]	 *From: 
pixxie@cybergal.com
[spamkill: undisclosed-recipients input: %s]	 *To: undisclosed-recipients:;
http://AfricanAdrenalin.co.za
http://Adventures.co.za

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:12:11 -0500
Subject: diff removal

> How do I get the diff off I have removed all of the bolts and  pulled
,pushed and generally
got upset the haynes manual is useless. All I want to do is ensure it
look ok and put it all back

 Have you removed the half shafts ? Generally two things hold the diff in
place, SPO's who have used gasket goo and some of the early ones have
dowels. Usually some "gentle' tappiing with a mallet on the nose will enable
you to start a rocking motion to free the diff for removal. It is risky to
force something between the faces to create the split, if you must, do it at
the top where the oil sealing is less critical.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:16:33 -0500
Subject: oil pan baffle 

Marin writes :-It's been a long, LONG time since I've had the oil pan off my 
Series III, but to my recollection, there were no baffles in it 
at all.  So if it's overfilled, the crankshaft will beat it up more 
than it's supposed to, and you get a lot of air mixed in.  Other 
models of Land Rover may have baffles in their oil pans, but 
mine doesn't (I'm almost positive).

 Ser 2 and 3 petrol and diesels use the same pan and they all have a top
baffle plate. There is a hole in the plate through which the oil pump fits
and a hole for the dipstick. They do not have a vertical bakkle.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: William Leacock <wleacock@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:24:20 -0500
Subject: wheel studs

Rover used two sizes of wheel stud. The ser 1 and 2 used 9/16" British
Standard fine ( BSF ) threads. Replacement press in studs were abvailable as
spares and some of the late 2a's used press in 9/16" studs. Later models
used the same thread with 27 mm a/f nuts ( 1 1/16" ).
 Around ser 3 intro they changed the screw thread to 16 mm metric ( approx
5/8" ) with 27 mm a/f nuts. These were all the press in stud variety. it is
relatively easy to salvage a ser 2 pulled out or striped 9/16" thread with a
16 mm press in stud.
Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR 

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From: "Jeremy Brooks" <jbrookslegacy@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:50:25 PST
Subject: Death Trap

Dear Shawn,

Lets face it, the Series LRs are not built to meet modern car safety 
standards,and even in their day they were not intended to compete with 
automobiles in speed, safety or even use. You simply cannot expect a 
vehicle designed as an agricutural light duty truck in 1948 to  compare 
with a  passenger car of today or even ten years ago.

Millions of dollars and thousands of hours are spent on safety 
development and design in modern cars. You only need to have experienced 
or examined a few collsions in a modern car, as I have,  to realize how 
far safety has come.

Thankfully, only a few of us drive antiquated vehicles such as the 
series Land Rover, hopefully with care. Common sense for road safety, 
proper maintenance and a respect for the LIMITATIONS and  INTENDED USE 
of the series Land Rovers should keep you out of trouble.

Don't let your enthusiasm for the marque, and the safety standards of 
other vehicles you may drive daily cloud these realities about the Land 
Rover.

Jeremy Brooks

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From: "Jeremy Brooks" <jbrookslegacy@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:51:46 PST
Subject: Death Trap

Dear Shawn,

Lets face it, the Series LRs are not built to meet modern car safety 
standards,and even in their day they were not intended to compete with 
automobiles in speed, safety or even use. You simply cannot expect a 
vehicle designed as an agricutural light duty truck in 1948 to  compare 
with a  passenger car of today or even ten years ago.

Millions of dollars and thousands of hours are spent on safety 
development and design in modern cars. You only need to have experienced 
or examined a few collsions in a modern car, as I have,  to realize how 
far safety has come.

Thankfully, only a few of us drive antiquated vehicles such as the 
series Land Rover, hopefully with care. Common sense for road safety, 
proper maintenance and a respect for the LIMITATIONS and  INTENDED USE 
of the series Land Rovers should keep you out of trouble.

Don't let your enthusiasm for the marque, and the safety standards of 
other vehicles you may drive daily cloud these realities about the Land 
Rover.

Jeremy Brooks

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From: "Peter Howard" <rover@mrbean.net.au>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:29 +1000
Subject: HELP! about subscribing to this list

List members,
I'd really like to subscribe to this list but I've had no luck at all in my
attempts to sign up.
I have e-mailed both majordomo@land rover.team.net and
majordomo@playground.sun.com with various commands in the BODY of the email
such as subscribe lro, lists, info and help. I was trying to subscribe, get
information on what lists are served by the server and general help
information.
No matter what I command, I always get the same identical e-mail back,
beginning "This is Brent Chapmans MAJORDOMO mailing list manager version
1.93 etc etc." I don't get any lro email so I guess my subscribing attempts
don't work.
I've looked everywhere to find out what is wrong with my procedure but I
can't see where I'm going astray.
Maybe I'm more stupid than average. However, I'd appreciate some idiot-proof
step by step instructions on how to do it. I read the list in its web-based
digest form so I'll see any replys. Alternatively, any helpful persons can
e-mail me direct if you don't care to clutter up the list with instructions.
Peter Howard
rover@mrbean.net.au (email address)
mrbean.net.au/~rover (my web pages)

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From: "david hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:32:47 -0600
Subject: Wheel studs - thank you Bill Leacock

Thanks for explaining with detailed dimensions what I was stumbling across.
Ray Wood at Wise Owl gme broadly the same information, and I'm buying a $30
used hub from him.

David Hope

>Subject: wheel studs
Rover used two sizes of wheel stud. The ser 1 and 2 used 9/16" British
Standard fine ( BSF ) threads. Replacement press in studs were abvailable as
spares and some of the late 2a's used press in 9/16" studs. Later models
used the same thread with 27 mm a/f nuts ( 1 1/16" ).
 Around ser 3 intro they changed the screw thread to 16 mm metric ( approx
5/8" ) with 27 mm a/f nuts. These were all the press in stud variety. it is
relatively easy to salvage a ser 2 pulled out or striped 9/16" thread with a
16 mm press in stud.Bill Leacock  ( Limey in exile ) NY USA.
 88 and 109 LR's and 89 RR

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From: "david hope" <davidjhope@email.msn.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:44:58 -0600
Subject: Naming your vehicle: was no clutch

Zack wrote about the problem of fast vehicles coming up from behind which
led him to name his vehicle "watchoutinfront' or some such name.

Reminds me of my experience driving from Springfield, Missouri to Kansas
City last week end to attend the Flatland Rover meet.  At 200 miles this is
the longest trip I've taken in three years of LR ownership.

Normally this is a tedious journey along Missouri Highway 13, a 2 lane road
with few passing places, lots of traffic and a few slow drivers with long
lines of vehicles behind them.  Very frustrating.

Of course on Saturday I drove most of the way to Kansas City with a nice
open road in front of me.  Never before had I experienced such a wonderful
thing.  It was pure bliss, with all the usual frustration of this road
washed away.  And then it dawned on me.  I was at the front. I was the slow
driver.  I then pulled over a couple of times, so I was a fairly courteous
driver.

David Hope
64 llA

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:55:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Death Trap

Oh... I'm not so convinced a series is a 'death trap.'
But I've never been in an accident.
Think about how many little tin cans are on the roads...
My concerns are the lack of head support, and side impact protection,
my tanks being under my passenger and I.

Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm

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From: Joseph Broach <jbroach@selway.umt.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:21:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Death Trap

<<From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:55:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Death Trap

Oh... I'm not so convinced a series is a 'death trap.'
But I've never been in an accident.
Think about how many little tin cans are on the roads...
My concerns are the lack of head support, and side impact protection,
my tanks being under my passenger and I.>>

And the fact that with those lap belts, my head would land squarely on the
steering wheel if I hit something. Has anyone managed to hook up three
point belts that are fairly comfortable? Would anchoring them to the Hard
top be OK? I hate to cut things up for a roll bar. I've been thinking that
this along with highback seats would greatly improve Sid's safety in an
accident. Since I'm on track to put about 10,000 miles on him this year,
I'm thinking it may be a wise investment. Any suggestions?

 *************************************
* joseph and sidney		      *
* missoula, mt			      *
* curator of the "Series Shed"        *
* http://jbroach.interspeed.net/rover *
 *************************************

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:45:48 +0200
Subject: wheel stud pcd (was Re: wheel studs)

Bill wrote some excellent stuff about wheel studs which was 
exactly what I needed to know but hadn't asked yet!  Joy!

Now does anyone know the exact Pitch Circle Diameter of the 
wheel stud centres on a SII/III/110/Rangie/Disco (not the newer 
smaller diamater as per post ?96 Rangies)?

I've measured it roughly at about 160mm, but if anyone knows the 
actual measurement off the top of their head, let me know!  Please 
don't go out and measure it because I could do that just as easily 
and would feel lazy and guilty.

All the best,

Andy
andyg@sherco.co.za, '79RR

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From: "Peter M. Kaskan" <pmk11@cornell.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:30:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Death Trap

>And the fact that with those lap belts, my head would land squarely on the
>steering wheel if I hit something.
Ouch!  Mine came with 3point belts, but the top point is fastened on the
bulkhead
behind me, below my sholder.  It is supposed to be above the shoulder, right?

>Has anyone managed to hook up three point belts that are fairly comfortable?
>Would anchoring them to the Hard top be OK?
There is a piece made for this, in the RN catalog...

>I hate to cut things up for a roll bar. I've been thinking that
>this along with highback seats would greatly improve Sid's safety in an
>accident.
Me to, but...  I'm thinking I'd like to put in a bar from one bench to the
other, like those pick-up things.  Anchor it through the benches by a
plate, like a SD bar, and then make up a bracket to weld to the frame.
Then put three point belts on this, and head rests for neck protection.

Peter

Peter M. Kaskan				Uris Hall 231
Office / 607-255-3382			Dept. Of Psychology
Lab /  607-255-6396			Cornell University
e-mail / pmk11@cornell.edu		Ithaca NY 14853
http://comp9.psych.cornell.edu/graduates/people/PeterM.Kaskan.htm

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From: Jeremy Bartlett <bartlett@slip.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:50:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Death Trap

Peter M. Kaskan wrote:

> >Has anyone managed to hook up three point belts that are fairly comfortable?
> >Would anchoring them to the Hard top be OK?
> There is a piece made for this, in the RN catalog...

The adaptors actually vary slightly depending on model (109, 88).  They attach
the door pillar ("B" pillar) rather than the hardtop.It's one of the few
modifications I made to my 109 when "renovating" it.  I've used the RN adaptor
(and LR belts ... made in Australia FWIW) and they work rather well in day to 
day
use.  Hopefully I never load test them, but they seem as likely to work as any
pre-equipped vehicle.

I'd also point out that the individual wiper motors and bar handle across the
back of the front seat on the 109 SWs are serious head bangers for those with 
lap
belts only.  I removed the bar handle on mine since I installed dormobile seats
but I'd prefer to see some bracing replace it since it partially supports the
door pillars.  I've toyed for a while with "roll bar" designs that would
substitute in this area, in part for that reason.

BTW I'm also fairly sure that most LRs came with safety glass, but it might be
worth checking  just to make sure.  The glass on the '51 80" I'm restoring had
started to delaminate so I replaced it.

Jeremy

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From: "Andy Grafton" <andyg@sherco.co.za>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:22:19 +0200
Subject: Re: Death Trap

joseph wrote;

> 3 point belts that are fairly comfortable? Would anchoring them 
> top be OK? I hate to cut things up for a roll bar. I've been thinking that

I am sure I once saw a Land Rover Genuine Parts box with a 3 
point seat belt mounting kit in it.  The top brackets were sizeable 
and fitted in the corner of the roof, affixed in the corner formed by 
the underside of the roof lip and the B pillar.  Don't know about the 
lower mountings.

Our South African made SIII station wagon came from the factory 
with a similar arrangement, but the components don't look as 
industrial as I remember the genuine LR ones being.  Fixing at the 
top is to the B pillar by virtue of one bolt all the way through; I have 
my doubts about that particular mounting.

In both cases the belts were non-retractable i.e. adjustable fixed 
length 3 point harnesses.

All the best,
^O
Andy
andyg@sherco.co.za, '79RR

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From: Robert Jan van Vliet <rjvvliet@casema.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:52:28 +0100
Subject: Re: Death Trap

Joseph Broach wrote:

> And the fact that with those lap belts, my head would land squarely on the
> steering wheel if I hit something. Has anyone managed to hook up three
> point belts that are fairly comfortable? Would anchoring them to the Hard
> top be OK?

Well, I have.

My SIII hardtop is equiped with a three point belt that is fitted to the top
side-corner next to the door. There are specially designed brackets to hold it
there. It lacks the adjustement possibilities of today's cars, but with my
1.80 m (6 foot 11 inch) it's quite comfortable. The belts are genuine parts
but i'm not sure about the brackets. I'll have to ask.

If you can't find them, let me know.

Robert Jan
SIII 109" 2.25 petrol ht rhd '80

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From: Robert Jan van Vliet <rjvvliet@casema.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:54:55 +0100
Subject: Re: Death Trap

> In both cases the belts were non-retractable i.e. adjustable fixed
> length 3 point harnesses.

In addition to my previous answer:

Mine are retractable.

Robert Jan
SIII 109" 2.25 petrol ht rhd '80

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From: Ketil Oftedahl <ketil.oftedahl@datapoint.no>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:15:50 +0100
Subject: Re: Death Trap

Robert Jan van Vliet wrote:

> The belts are genuine parts but i'm not sure about the brackets.

Geniune LR mounting brackets for 3-point belts do exist - at least in
the Series IIa/III Optional Parts Catalogue.  If anybody wants the part
numbers I can look them up later today.

Regards,
Ketil

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From: Marc Rengers <mr@b4m.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:23:53 +0100
Subject: Re: Death Trap

>The belts are genuine parts
>but i'm not sure about the brackets. I'll have to ask.

The topbrackets are also genuine parts:

395586  RH-side
395587  LH-side

bottom brackets:

345100  RH-side
345101  LH-side

The belts (adjustable):

MTC1614  RH-side
MTC1615  LH-side

belts with a roller:

MTC1606  RH-side
MTC1607  LH-side

All of these products need more mountingbrackets and bolts and so on, 
they're listed on page 2J15 and further of GROUP M of the Series 3 parts 
manual....

If you want I can scan them and put them on my web pages or mail them 
directly....

Marc Rengers                                                LRCH-member
Westeremden, Holland
mr@b4m.com (marc@fileserver.minerva.fk.hanze.nl)
Systemsmanager Academie Minerva Groningen

0596-551334 (home)
050-3666761 (work)
06-51185046 (GSM)

http://www.minerva.fk.hanze.nl/landrover/index.html

      +------_                                --_         
      |____|__\___                    ________|__\___     
      | _  |   |_ |}                  |  _    |   |_ |}   
      "(_)"""""(_)"                   ""(_)"""""""(_)"
 1978 SIII 88" 2.25 diesel       1968  109"  SIIa 2.25 petrol
     reg. 47-DB-13                     reg. unknown    
      marine blue                 green (15 layers of paint)
    The running one                  The not running one

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From: "Dario Eduardo Marcoppido" <marcoppido@intramed.net.ar>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:45:49 -0300
Subject: RV: Corrosion Problems
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Wow !!!!!!!!!!

I've thought that Land Rovers did not get corrosion, because they are =
built of stanley steel !!!!
Please somebody tell me if this is true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dario Eduardo Marcoppido
marcoppido@intramed.net.ar
ICQ # 19368859

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From: "Dario Eduardo Marcoppido" <marcoppido@intramed.net.ar>
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:43:12 -0300
Subject: RV: Cluth went out this morning on the way to work
	charset="iso-8859-1"

" I am also still seeking a cool name for my Land Rover.  Please send =
you suggestions ;-) "

What about "Pucara" that is a Indian name (of Argentina) for 'Fortress =
at the top of a mountain', or "Roadrunner" because of the speed :-) :-) =
:-)

Dario Eduardo Marcoppido
marcoppido@intramed.net.ar
ICQ # 19368859

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